Why did Bioware choose the hero engine?

[MattieP]

I'm sure both time and money played a factor. Plus, remember that this decision was made back in 2007/2008 when the game was still a twinkle in the eye.

 

 

 

 

I don't think the engine is to "blame" for the instances. The instances allow an entire world to be customized for every player.

 

 

As I've said before. This is a fantastic single player game. The endgame/multiplayer aspect could use some tinkering.

[Malice_Nihilim]

I believe the issue is in the fact the Hero engine is single threaded. From what I understand this means that a multithreaded CPU (which they all are now for year and years) won't be able to fully utilize it's potential because the software can only process one action at a time where a multi threaded piece of software could send 2 or 4 actions to the cores of your cpu and each core will work with a thread.

 

I might be wrong about all that but that's my current understanding of it.

 

So basically the Hero engine is 1999 tech.

 

I don't even know if any game int he last 6 years was made that is single threaded software?

Multithreaded software has been around for along time. Why you would use a engine that lacks such a fundamental feature is beyond me but I'm sure money has something to do with it.

 

Politics follows economics. Fundamental truth.

 

It actually runs a system trick to function as mutl threaded by running two .exe's at once, but yes, the lack of native multi threading is a weakness. As for games over the last 6 years? Multi core systems were really only popular the last 4-5 years, so most folks weren't writing a ton od multi threaded games previously.

[myrmexaw]

the hero engine was the big talk of E3 a couple year back and we all know how big company see a marketing pitch as a golden opportunity to put nice round golden seller star around their product in the bottom right of the box.

 

With that said Hero engine isn't per se free as some people suggest .. just like U3 wich is also free up to a certain point ( 50k in sales if i recall for u3 and 30% of all income for hero engine) bioware probably bought the engine to match their description so they don't end up giving back 30% loyalty back to hero that would be dumb especially with how much using the star wars name already cost.

 

If bioware wanted to truely go the original way they would've taken the new pixel pointing engine technology that is as of today just as much vaporware as hero engine used to be 6 year ago... Big company are afraid of change all they want is to make sure with certainty that they cannot fail ... wich end up failling because the mmo community isn't like the rest of society and accept meager change as revolutional concept.

[Godsfear]

It actually runs a system trick to function as mutl threaded by running two .exe's at once, but yes, the lack of native multi threading is a weakness. As for games over the last 6 years? Multi core systems were really only popular the last 4-5 years, so most folks weren't writing a ton od multi threaded games previously.

 

OH! that totally explains the double .exe running.

 

Thanks for that clarification.

 

It's really a shame because the game had a lot of potential. I'm afraid though much like WARhammer with such a fundamental flaw the game won't hold it popularity.

 

We can already see how much trouble they're having squashing bugs that have been reported for many months now.

 

Some engines are just fundamentally flawed and it appears Hero is one of them.

 

I still don't think WARhammer has fixed pet pathing, they never will either.

[Foxpaw]

Yes, why not? You think the renderer cannot pull it of or something?

 

The only diffrence i can see on my beginner level between the two is, hero engine seems to have more interesing management tools in how you develop the content.

 

There are a few short videos about in on youtube.

 

Well and it got the inferior graphics, no doubt.

 

They will have modified it for their needs, but still and maybe that is exactly why they got the issues. Who knows. Maybe they totally overloaded it.

 

Unreal would have handled the load of data more smooth. It is constantly being developed as an engine since years and a big seller.

 

DCUO uses the Unreal engine. SWTOR looks better imo.

[thomaspraill]

I understand what you're asking OP unlike a lot of these fanbois. Unfortunately I think this is just another example of the lack of talent the staff working on this game seem to have. Everything from the plagerised game mechanics, to the difficulty, to the modeling, to the textures, to the engine itself is just... amateur. I have never found myself thinking 'woh.. that was a really smart way to implement that' with this game.

 

Everything in this game is plagerised and dumbed down, why wouldnt the engine be as well?

Edited January 10, 2012 by thomaspraill

[Blacktailstalker]

Why did they choose a engine that is so heavily instanced instead of building their own like Blizzard did?

 

Im just wondering because I keep hearing about all the money they spent and the heart of this game the main engine seems very cheap.

 

Any reason for this?

 

Because blizzard made the wrong choice, they should of picked the hero engine.

[Paganini]

Because blizzard made the wrong choice, they should of picked the hero engine.

 

Hahaha hilarious

[jeepoverland]

^ what he said.

 

I'm sure its A LOT cheaper to buy someone else's engine than to create your own. That is probably why they did it. Plus if you really look at it...(i said "look") the Hero Engine resembles WoW's current design A LOT.

 

Let's say some game company hired me as their CEO and I had little gaming experience but LOTS of successful business experience......I would have done the same thing.

Edited January 10, 2012 by jeepoverland

[MrTijger]

^ what he said.

 

I'm sure its A LOT cheaper to buy someone else's engine than to create your own. That is probably why they did it. Plus if you really look at it...(i said "look") the Hero Engine resembles WoW's current design A LOT.

 

Let's say some game company hired me as their CEO and I had little gaming experience but LOTS of successful business experience......I would have done the same thing.

 

Except that both Bioware and EA are run by people who know gaming whereas ActiBlizzard is not. What was your point again?

[Godsfear]

Except that both Bioware and EA are run by people who know gaming whereas ActiBlizzard is not. What was your point again?

 

Are you just trolling? Are you 13 years old?

 

How you could say this is mind blowing!

 

EA is notorious for making bad plays and being ran by corporate suits.

 

Blizzard will polish a game till a turd is a diamond. Diablo is going to blow SWTOR away and that's not even really it's competing market. Hell I hate Diablo type clicky games and I don't really like Blizzard but even I'm starting to contemplate playing Diablo since SWTOR is such a let down so far.

 

EA ruined WARHAMMER which I played for 1.5 years.

EA rushes all games out and this always hurts them.

 

Personally this is the last mmo I ever try from EA. Between Warhammer and SWTOR they've chosen bad engines on both games.

 

I hope they pull SWTOR together but to say Blizzard is clueless about gaming is so ignorant and childish it goes above and beyond hur dur.

[Malice_Nihilim]

OH! that totally explains the double .exe running.

 

Thanks for that clarification.

 

It's really a shame because the game had a lot of potential. I'm afraid though much like WARhammer with such a fundamental flaw the game won't hold it popularity.

 

We can already see how much trouble they're having squashing bugs that have been reported for many months now.

 

Some engines are just fundamentally flawed and it appears Hero is one of them.

 

I still don't think WARhammer has fixed pet pathing, they never will either.

 

Nope because WAR used Kynaps as well. Kynaps was a pathing engine originally designed for FPS's, it does not mesh well in the MMOverse. Problem is, that once BW consumed Mythic, they now had access to free software that Mythic had already purchased.

 

As for anyone that wants to know, the going rate (as of 4 years ago when I called about it) was 250,000 for a unlimited Hero Engine license.

[ptwonline]

Why re-invent the wheel at a far higher price and with a much longer timeframe when there is a perfectly good wheel available for sale from someone specializing in making them?

 

HeroEngine had the features and performance that Bioware wanted, and after some investigation they decided to go with it. Bioware's expertise is mostly on the game systems and content side, not the game engine side.

[Malice_Nihilim]

^ what he said.

 

I'm sure its A LOT cheaper to buy someone else's engine than to create your own. That is probably why they did it. Plus if you really look at it...(i said "look") the Hero Engine resembles WoW's current design A LOT.

 

Let's say some game company hired me as their CEO and I had little gaming experience but LOTS of successful business experience......I would have done the same thing.

 

Folks, engines are a lot more complex than how you are looking at them. Most of what you SEE from a game engine is just additional modules. Graphics, game mechanics, etc are generally rooted from additions to the engine and is not a sign of the engine itself. Now of course there are certain limitations and the like based on the engine, but it doesn't dictate 'WoW graphics' vs 'some other graphics'. DAoC was very realistic in art style for its time period, while WAR was done in a much more severe extreme style that came off a bit more cartoony, yet they were both made on the same Gambryo engine.

 

Engines are like the science of Physics....it defines a foundation and parameters, but there there is ALOT that can be done within those rules. BW didn't buy Hero Engine, the 'complete game in a box', they got a functional core to build on.

[Tahana]

Oh.. this thread again.

[Blackfriar]

The #1 bad program you have to look at is there Pathing Engine, it causes more problems then anything else. They are using Kynaps which is a steaming pile IMHO..

 

BioWare. Bad Pathing. Synonyms since the days of Baldur's Gate your NPCs would travel half the map to move one inch...

 

And you'd listen to "You must gather your party before venturing forth" forever...

[snakeIL]

Why not?

[Godsfear]

Nope because WAR used Kynaps as well. Kynaps was a pathing engine originally designed for FPS's, it does not mesh well in the MMOverse. Problem is, that once BW consumed Mythic, they now had access to free software that Mythic had already purchased.

 

As for anyone that wants to know, the going rate (as of 4 years ago when I called about it) was 250,000 for a unlimited Hero Engine license.

 

Interesting.

 

That makes sense that BW buying mythic means they are going to use their licenses. It's cheap and stupid but it makes sense.

[Malice_Nihilim]

WAR and SWTOR have 2 thing in common.

 

1: they both tried to 'brute force' there game. WAR working with some 300 employees not including any outsourced work etc. SWTOR rumors double that. Man power is needed to a point but better tool design and better coding can and will cut your man power needs and give you less hands in cookie jar so less people walking on each others code/scripts/etc.

 

2: both companies had a horrible clash of politics inside. Its obvious with SWTOR, you have the old guard BW people and the folks from Mythic that were generally picked up as filler because WAR was firing everyone...But Bioware was in charge, not people with MMO experience and when Mythic folks tried to do things right, it clashed with BW egos which always causes lots of problems over the grand scheme of things.

 

Before Mythic's massive layoffs, BioWare was openly advertising that they didn't want people with MMO experience to work on SWTOR. They wanted people with a 'fresh look'. The problem is that every company has a fresh look, and so freshly steps right into the same mistakes that everyone makes.

 

As for anyones concerns with PvP systems, and saying "Mythic people should have known better!" well, the Mythic people on the PvP team wrote dungeons for WAR, not PvP, so they have no functional experience with it. Gabe has done a great job with Eternity Vault and the like but his lack of PvP design experience is obvious.

[kishe]

Interesting.

 

That makes sense that BW buying mythic means they are going to use their licenses. It's cheap and stupid but it makes sense.

 

Actually EA bought Bioware and stitched Mythic to it without anesthetics or pain relief.

[Malice_Nihilim]

Actually EA bought Bioware and stitched Mythic to it without anesthetics or pain relief.

 

Basically. They gutted Mythic and gave the remains to BW to do with as they saw fit.

[Blackfriar]

^ what he said.

 

I'm sure its A LOT cheaper to buy someone else's engine than to create your own. That is probably why they did it. Plus if you really look at it...(i said "look") the Hero Engine resembles WoW's current design A LOT.

 

Let's say some game company hired me as their CEO and I had little gaming experience but LOTS of successful business experience......I would have done the same thing.

 

Yeah... Problem is the MMO industry is different. So when you get some bonus-hunting shark in... He looks too much at the short-run, not at the long-run. Therefore, bad choices are made.

 

Releasing this game, half-baked, before they got out all these graphics bugs, memory leaks bugs and the textures finished was a bad idea. That first impression will make or break you. It broke Age of Conan. It broke Warhammer On-line. It broke Dungeons and Dragons on-line. It broke Fallen Earth. It broke Aion in NA, though it sill does well in Asia. It broke Star Trek on-line.

 

Because, regardless of the issues surrounding WoW's launch in 2004, this is 2012 and there is a robust, highly competitive MMO market out there. Unlike 2004 which really didn't have a lot...

[Kemorand]

I don't really care about the "tech" behind it all. All I know is:

 

- In 2001, I had a decent computer for the time and I could do relic fights with hundreds of players involved in DAoC. Having people on my screen meant epic fun.

 

- In 2012, I have a decent computer for the time and even with everything turned to the lowest, I still have graphical latency issues as soon as it's populated, and I'm talking 20ish people. It's "ok" with nobody around and max settings, though in some areas it'll just suddenly go way down. Having people around is actually a turn off and to run flash-points with any decent frame-rate, I could be playing a 10 years old game with less irritating graphics.

 

So, all in all, all I care about is how much fun I get when I play with others in a MMO...and right now, I try my best NOT to because it actually spoils the fun...not great for a MMO.

 

My problem is that since this computer should run the game perfectly fine, I have no idea what to upgrade for it.

Sure, I could go completely over the top like some people comment on the forums (I mean, latest i7 with insane graphic card, dedicated ultra fast hard drives and whatnot? Hello?!) but that's just stupid.

[skyvortex]

It worked great for warhammer.

[Blackfriar]

 

Before Mythic's massive layoffs, BioWare was openly advertising that they didn't want people with MMO experience to work on SWTOR. They wanted people with a 'fresh look'. The problem is that every company has a fresh look, and so freshly steps right into the same mistakes that everyone makes..

 

You know, when I still practicing as a CPA and wanted to hire someone I never looked for people who had no experience in the accounting field for anything but an entry level staff-accountant position. I'd be like hiring a new audit manager, but one who'd never been on an audit. Or tax manager who'd never prepared a return.

 

Just a disaster waiting to happen...