Lifeshield Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 And BTW Unreal on an MMO? Are you for real? APB ,Mortal Online, Global Agenda, & Huxley (among others). I'll give you a cookie if you can figure out what they all have in common. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DariuszPol Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 ArchAge - CryEngine 3 (Crysis 2) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trublmaker Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 APB ,Mortal Online, Global Agenda, & Huxley (among others). I'll give you a cookie if you can figure out what they all have in common. Ah yes. Don't forget Vanguard Saga of Heroes was an Unreal Engine based MMO. How did that work out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelinestars Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Because writing a 3d engine is a long process. Would cost a ton of money and could of completely failed. The Hero engine is stable, it does what it needs to do with this game. Compared to what they are paying to use Unreal, I'm guessing it's a steal. And BTW Unreal on an MMO? Are you for real? Blizzard created their own engine. Then again, there isn't a single move Blizzard doesn't do right, for the most part. The Hero engine is almost the worst possible choice for this single-player game SW:TOR. Just another blunder made by BioWare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandrax Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) Everyone who bashes or complains about the game engine is making stuff up. Unless you had access to the code, you wouldn't know what the engine's limitations and strength are. I hear disseminating lies and fabrications based on assumptions and speculation is the knew truth, though. People just want to look for different things to blame. The game didn't live up to the massive expectations they built in their heads and will blame just about everything they can think of when in reality, the real blame can be attributed to themselves. Unfortunately people don't like to accept responsibility for anything as it's far easier to find a scapegoat. The fact that players even need to blame anyone is a joke in itself. The most logical thing is to say that BioWare made a game that not everybody is going to like. These things happen. There are plenty of games that I don't like though I don't get all hurt and start throwing my toys out of my pram. Some people have to get personal. They kind of get this feeling that BioWare have done it to spite them, or they get hurt because they made some suggestions on how BioWare should develop the game and BioWare didn't listen. They think that because they have shown commitment by following the game, or communicating in the forums that they are special. They think that they are somehow more important in all this than they really are. In this thread the engine gets the blame, in another it's EA, in another it's all those Mythic employees that BioWare took on. It goes on and on and on. It's all conspiracy with zero evidence. It's an interesting read, but it's all fiction. Edited January 15, 2012 by Mandrax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZlupZlup Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 This was last week's bandwagon. Sorry, you missed the boat. Wouldnt he of missed the ride?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugo Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 So cute to hear players talk about things they are clueless about. So cute to hear ******** talk without facts, evidence and conclusion. Hey, welcome to the club buddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barracudastr Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Ah yes. Don't forget Vanguard Saga of Heroes was an Unreal Engine based MMO. How did that work out? We aren't discussing the success or failure of mmo and what engine they used. We are discussing why other mmos that were cheaper to make look better and play better then swtor. The other games failed for reason not related to their engine. Swtor is having a hard time with alot of techincal issues that are directly related to them using hero engine. Graphics lag = hero engine/bad code No high res textures = hero engine bad coding no optimization to support it. Shadows are horrible and slow = hero engine/bad coding Pretty much every tech issue there is in swtor is related to hero engine and the dev team does not have the knowledge to fix the issues I am guessing because some of these issues have been there since beta first started and still are there today 7 months later so you tell me why its going to take them almost a year to fix a engine problem after 7 years of dev. It is the engine and devs having a problem adapting swtor to hero engine. They could have chosen a much better engine with better support like up and coming releases have done that are absolutely beautiful in both their gameplay and art style/graphics. You can not say the same for swtor after experiencing the horrible graphics lag, blocky shadows and muddy textures. And if you say it looks fine your probably just trying to convince yourself you did not waste 60-150 bucks on something that looks like its from 2005. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trublmaker Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Look...the Hero "Engine" is not a graphics platform like Unreal. It is a MMO development toolkit. Graphics and such are designed using plug-ins, which can be other "engines" (like Unreal), Maya, or whatever graphic design suite you want to use. What the Hero Engine is, is a collection of scripting tools and the server back-end. It was designed from the ground up as a MMO platform. It has actually won a number of awards for being a best-in-class MMO toolkit. One of its strengths is that it allows real-time, collaborative content creation and allows for rapid deployment of updates. That is, new content can be created and added to the game on the fly while the servers are running. One of the examples given is that a designer can build a house while another works on the landscape outside and both will see each others changes in real time. So really, BW made a good decision by going with a software platform that was purpose built for online game play. /thread +1 Once Bioware begins adding content at an unprecedented rate, naysayers will begin to understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
septusmortis Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Anyone remember Faxion? The reason I mention this was because guess what... it was a Hero engine game. It had exactly the same issues with lag and bogging down with a lot of graphics Going on and the reason they have instanced the game so heavily is to reduce the overhead on the CPU\GPU. Faxion closed 3 months after it went live. Dont get me wrong I am not comparing the two as faxion was total dogs breakfast but if look around for the issues it faced they were very similar to the ones SWTOR players are reporting... LAG, inexplicably jerky framerates etc... The Hero devs have accepted this probelm exists if you read the tech note it makes in clear that if you have a high amount of assets the engine struggles... http://wiki.heroengine.com/wiki/Controlling_Frame_Rate_(FPS) One of the strategies suggested is to instance and sharded areas where possible so don't say that that was a design choice this is simply not the case its plain rubbish. Why spilt whole zones into 2 e.g nameofplanet1 and nameofplanet2? it is simply because they want to keep the amount of assets the game engine has to render to an controllable amount. Also the Hero is single threaded, they force a kind of wierd multi threading by running the game as two exe's but this is a very inefficient way of using an extra core. The Hero guys plan to add multi threading in teh future but thats too late for SWTOR... Please research the issue and get teh facts before posting ill informed opinions as facts please its irritating. Move on \post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trublmaker Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) Anyone remember Faxion? The reason I mention this was because guess what... it was a Hero engine game. It had exactly the same issues with lag and bogging down with a lot of graphics Going on and the reason they have instanced the game so heavily is to reduce the overhead on the CPU\GPU. Faxion closed 3 months after it went live. Dont get me wrong I am not comparing the two as faxion was total dogs breakfast but if look around for the issues it faced they were very similar to the ones SWTOR players are reporting... LAG, inexplicably jerky framerates etc... The Hero devs have accepted this probelm exists if you read the tech note it makes in clear that if you have a high amount of assets the engine struggles... http://wiki.heroengine.com/wiki/Controlling_Frame_Rate_(FPS) One of the strategies suggested is to instance and sharded areas where possible so don't say that that was a design choice this is simply not the case its plain rubbish. Why spilt whole zones into 2 e.g nameofplanet1 and nameofplanet2? it is simply because they want to keep the amount of assets the game engine has to render to an controllable amount. Also the Hero is single threaded, they force a kind of wierd multi threading by running the game as two exe's but this is a very inefficient way of using an extra core. The Hero guys plan to add multi threading in teh future but thats too late for SWTOR... Please research the issue and get teh facts before posting ill informed opinions as facts please its irritating. Move on \post Did you play Faxion? So... Multi-threading is basically using multiple cores? Interesting. Continue. Edited January 15, 2012 by trublmaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaehl Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 McDonald's makes a lot of money too. However, it isn't the best restaurant. It is at 3AM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barracudastr Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 /thread +1 Once Bioware begins adding content at an unprecedented rate, naysayers will begin to understand. You are the one misunderstanding we know hero engine allows fast content. people aren't complaining about that. People are naysayers because the engine sucks, it causes lag, graphic errors, bad graphics, high over head on resources. Thats what the complaints are no one said hero sucked at being a mmo platform for content dev. We said it blows at being a suitable engine this day and age where its bogging down highend machines and using heavy instancing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imtrick Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) Did you play Faxion? So... Multi-threading is basically using multiple cores? Interesting. Continue. Did you actually read what he said there? Because he didn't say that. Well, not specifically anyway. However, one of the advantages to multi-threading is that it can be used to spread threads across multiple cores. It's not the only advantage, obviously, but it is one of them. Edited January 16, 2012 by imtrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokivoid Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Why did they choose a engine that is so heavily instanced instead of building their own like Blizzard did? Im just wondering because I keep hearing about all the money they spent and the heart of this game the main engine seems very cheap. Any reason for this? Blizzard did not build there own engine. They use the gamebyro engine, Its been pretty much the industry standard for the past 12 year's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trublmaker Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 You are the one misunderstanding we know hero engine allows fast content. people aren't complaining about that. People are naysayers because the engine sucks, it causes lag, graphic errors, bad graphics, high over head on resources. Thats what the complaints are no one said hero sucked at being a mmo platform for content dev. We said it blows at being a suitable engine this day and age where its bogging down highend machines and using heavy instancing. Please stop trolling me with the straw-man crap. My post was clearly directed toward the OP and thread topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Civix Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Blizzard did not build there own engine. They use the gamebyro engine, Its been pretty much the industry standard for the past 12 year's. Troll? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorun Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) No, they bought the engine when it wasn't even close to complete. It had almost no features, had no security built in, and had almost no documentation. They also have not taken any updates from the creator of the engine for over three years. This is from the mouth of the heroengine creator himself. He even tried to talk them out of buying it, but when they insisted on waving huge checks in his face, he said okay. http://www.heroengine.com/2011/11/heroengine-meets-starwars/ First quote is from article, second quote is from Heroengine dev in comment section of article. thats ok man. Fanbois will just squeeze their eyes closed and cover their ears and yell "nah nah nah nah i cant hear you!" You guys realize people who blindly defend any game are worse then people who complain about something right? Edited January 16, 2012 by Thorun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aisar Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Mainly because it is Developer friendly and they basicly said "we want your graphics engine!" the makers on the engine basicly said it is not ready for use in any stretch of the word and bioware snatched it up like it was gold. unfortunately i do not have the link to the interview that was done with one of the engine's makers explaining what happened. horrible, stupid decision that never should have happened. and here we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dianoia Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 People just want to look for different things to blame. The game didn't live up to the massive expectations they built in their heads and will blame just about everything they can think of when in reality, the real blame can be attributed to themselves. Unfortunately people don't like to accept responsibility for anything as it's far easier to find a scapegoat. The fact that players even need to blame anyone is a joke in itself. The most logical thing is to say that BioWare made a game that not everybody is going to like. These things happen. There are plenty of games that I don't like though I don't get all hurt and start throwing my toys out of my pram. Some people have to get personal. They kind of get this feeling that BioWare have done it to spite them, or they get hurt because they made some suggestions on how BioWare should develop the game and BioWare didn't listen. They think that because they have shown commitment by following the game, or communicating in the forums that they are special. They think that they are somehow more important in all this than they really are. In this thread the engine gets the blame, in another it's EA, in another it's all those Mythic employees that BioWare took on. It goes on and on and on. It's all conspiracy with zero evidence. It's an interesting read, but it's all fiction. I wish there was a like button. I haven't seen practically anyone post who even understands what the Hero Engine is or what it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorun Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Blizzard did not build there own engine. They use the gamebyro engine, Its been pretty much the industry standard for the past 12 year's. They built there own engine. It was in the Blizzcon 20 year anniversary interview and most of the community knew about it when the game was released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
septusmortis Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Did you actually read what he said there? Because he didn't say that. Well, not specifically anyway. However, one of the advantages to multi-threading is that it can be used to spread threads across multiple cores. It's not the only advantage, obviously, but it is one of them. Thanks I was going to reply the same Did you play Faxion? So... Multi-threading is basically using multiple cores? Interesting. Continue. I had a peek at it yes but certainly did not play it hard. My housemate tried it and stuck with for a bit longer but in the end binned it. Dont take my statement out of context. I was saying that using two executables was an inefficient way of using an extra core I did not say multithreading was using multiple cores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokivoid Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Whats funny is swtor took 80 mil to make and the graphics and feeling of it are meh. Nothing up to date if you will. While mmo's like Aion and others cost 15-25 million. And they look better and play better. Why is it a company with a 80 mil budget cant make a engine with updated graphics and gameplay thats smooth? Very poor business and developement swtor basically wasted millions for a subpar game with its story and questing w/ VA being its only saving grace. Do you have any idea how much development costs a gaming engine nowadays rack's. a specialised engine takes years of development just by it self. Gamebyro has been in development and constantly updated for the past 15 year's. What do DAOC,WoW,Rift along with single player titles such as the elderscroll series starting with marrowind, fallout3, along with a large number of console games have incommon. They all use the same engine. Infact for most development projects its considered the industry standard. becuse its high moddability and natively accepts a large range of scripting languages by default. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trublmaker Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Did you actually read what he said there? Because he didn't say that. Well, not specifically anyway. However, one of the advantages to multi-threading is that it can be used to spread threads across multiple cores. It's not the only advantage, obviously, but it is one of them. Explain what he said then. I'll refresh your memory... Also the Hero is single threaded, they force a kind of wierd multi threading by running the game as two exe's but this is a very inefficient way of using an extra core. Honestly... You've made a habit of instigating baseless arguments with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokivoid Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 its now the swtor engine, they designed the game the way they did because they wanted to next victim Nope its still the hero engine, just a alpha version of it. It still utilizes all the core aspects that made the engine terrible for game development (using flash language for GUI.... really who thought that was a good idea) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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