DarthSublimitas Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 My solutuion, which worked quite well in WoW as a healer, was to announce at the beginning of the instance that ninja's won't be healed. But maybe that may not work too well in this game as many classes have the ability to heal themselves... but something to keep in the back of your head. I will ALWAYS ask if I can "need" roll on something for my pet. It's just common courtesy - oh yeah, this is a MMO, what was I thinking... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vitellius Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 On most topics, I usually just let the game go as played, but this is just low when it happens and you have no way to prevent it. Even if your grp agrees not to, what happens if it does? You've just wasted time and effort. So, in this case, I don't buy the, "Oh well, guess nothing you can do" thinking. Here's my solution. Add a "Need for companion" roll option. Then create a mechanic that locks out your companion from equipping any item won through a standard "Need" roll. It's essentially a conditional greed. But, since i'm all for choice. I would ALSO make that a loot rule option. So you can have master looter, round robin, companion lock, etc. That way, you can announce in your pug what your going to do and THEN let the players decide. Now, the choice is completely up to the grp players if they want to risk getting ninja'd or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gannonmoss Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I was tanking Athiss last night on my powertech and the last boss dropped an amazing pistol that was head and shoulders above the one I had. Being grouped with two operatives and an assassin I was giddy to get such a nice upgrade.... Wait no, one of the operatives rolled need as well saying it was for his tank companion and then won the roll.... Everyone in the group called him a dirt bag or some other name and he soon quit the group. Bioware should really implement a loot rolling system that reflects how players actually distribute loot and to prevent douche bags from rolling need on an item they can't even equip in order to give it to their companion, sell it, or other ridiculous endevor. Sorry to say it but Blizzard took many expansions to finally apply this restriction and the world has been a better place ever since. I wish the would add a companion button for loot rolls. Need -> Companion -> Greed/Disassemble. Need and Companion rolls automatically make items bound. Need and Companion buttons only light up and become live if you can use it, or if your companion can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karai Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Yet another thread about this? OK, if you insist. Roll however you want on whatever you want. You fought for it and have as much right to it as anyone else. What you do with it once once you get it is your business and no one else has anything to say about it. Suure and next day, there will be noone wanting to run flashpoints with people they don't know. Well at least general chat on fleet would clear out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonlinar Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 It's simple. Roll need if you need it. If you don't think you do, roll greed. Let the system play itself out. All the "constant need" people will eventually find themselves with very few grouping partners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majestic_Jazz Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Yet another thread about this? OK, if you insist. Roll however you want on whatever you want. You fought for it and have as much right to it as anyone else. What you do with it once once you get it is your business and no one else has anything to say about it. Unless it was established as group rules before we entered the Heroic/Flashpoint. If you still continue, I will remove you from the group and put you on the ignore list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthSublimitas Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) On most topics, I usually just let the game go as played, but this is just low when it happens and you have no way to prevent it. Even if your grp agrees not to, what happens if it does? You've just wasted time and effort. So, in this case, I don't buy the, "Oh well, guess nothing you can do" thinking. Here's my solution. Add a "Need for companion" roll option. Then create a mechanic that locks out your companion from equipping any item won through a standard "Need" roll. It's essentially a conditional greed. But, since i'm all for choice. I would ALSO make that a loot rule option. So you can have master looter, round robin, companion lock, etc. That way, you can announce in your pug what your going to do and THEN let the players decide. Now, the choice is completely up to the grp players if they want to risk getting ninja'd or not. You know that is a very good idea. The only problem is that BW has a hard enough time trying to get the simple mechanics of this game working let alone something complicated like this (well, really not very complicated, just a line of Boolean code introduced). Try not to expect too much from them... Edited January 10, 2012 by DarthSublimitas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbrian Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) It's a dick move, but some will say it's acceptable. Things like this are why I hate grouping outside my guild and have had this same thing happen. If it wasn't an upgrade for another player that's one thing. But a companion shouldn't take precedence over a player. It's like rolling need for an Alt. What's next, rolling need for friends you group with? Edited January 10, 2012 by tbrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laparkuh Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 UNLESS YOUR COMPANION IS OUT....he isn't helping the group at all so you shouldn't be needing. Can I roll need for my wife's character or brother's when they aren't around if the gears not "bind on pickup"? They help me too just like a companion.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vitellius Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 You know that is a very good idea. The only problem is that BW has a hard enough time trying to get the simple mechanics of this game working let alone something complicated like this (well, really not very complicated, just a line of Boolean code introduced). Try not to expect too much from them... Oh yeah, for sure I don't expect this any time soon. I'm just throwing it out there. It's not hard to implement and i'm sure it would make more people happy than not. I'm realistic about it and won't hold my breath, but I have no problem speaking up and, hopefully, at least being heard. (Which I believe they DO hear us more then we give them credit) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawning_Enmity Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Do me a favor.. If you roll need for your companion, Write down your in game names... So I can blacklist you and never group, you can group with people that share the same opinion. Having your own thoughts about the subject is fine, but if you don't share the same thoughts as me, I wont hate you, I just wont play with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Rolling need for your companions without asking first makes you a greedy fool. Your companion is not as important as another player. Simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laparkuh Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Rolling need for your companions without asking first makes you a greedy fool. Your companion is not as important as another player. Simple as that. This. If you think your companion is better than real people then only group with 3 and use him. Then I'm sure people won't care that you need gear on him. But to take an upgrade from someone to make your "soloing easier" is about as lame as you can get...besides just straight up selling the loot of course... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edaros Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Kids will be kids and if kids sees loot, they'll need on it, regardless. These are the kids that never gets spanked at home when doing something wrong. Blame their parents for their stupidity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpsStranger Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 You roll need for your companions I quit and /ignore you immediately. I'll never group twice with someone who pulls this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amiracle Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 As a healer I watch them die.....and when they ask "where are the heals?" I say "ask your companion....." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldren Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I get that it's frustrating to lose a roll on something you really want. It's the nature of an MMO. This game can't have the same ideologies applied to it for looting that other MMOs currently do. The existence of companions, fully-gearable pets whose presence is assumed in the difficulty curve design for the 1-50 content, shifts things considerably. They're part of your character, a part without which you'd have a lot more difficulty. If all you're going to do is group content from 1-50, then it isn't an issue. It isn't an issue at 50th level when the paradigm of the game shifts, though you still require use of your companions during the daily solo quests. You, the player, were in the Flashpoint or Operation, and you the player assisted in downing the boss. You have a right to stake a claim to any loot a boss drops as a result. You don't require other players' permission or approval to roll as you feel appropriate on a given piece of loot. Courtesy likely demands that you ask first, but it's just that: it's a courtesy, not an imperative. There's no social contract in effect unless you personally agree to it. Of course the naysayers, who mostly just want to improve their own personal chances of a given piece of loot going to them as much as possible, are going to pull out scenarios saying this approach will encourage people to roll Need on everything just to vendor it for a few credits, or other such arguments. They aren't incorrect. The presence of companions in this game mandates a much more sensible approach of Roll/Pass for non-class-specific gear; Need Before Greed just doesn't work in this paradigm. Run the instance again. The item will drop again. You have the same chance as everyone else who rolls. Nothing can be more fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazysam Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 1. Find group 2. Establish ground rules before starting 3. ??? 4. Profit Sad part is that its not working like that. Poeple will just nod and keep Needing everything. Use your brain for a sec and think about it! You cant seriously believe poeple will follow the "rules" you set before running the instance. Im tired of all the nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chevex Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Yet another thread about this? OK, if you insist. Roll however you want on whatever you want. You fought for it and have as much right to it as anyone else. What you do with it once once you get it is your business and no one else has anything to say about it. This is why we need LFD with proper loot restrictions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRKy Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Seems simple enough to me... Was your companion ACTIVE in the group? You should be able to role however you like for their upgrades. If not... you're rolling for someone who didn't actively participate in the group and are therefore being a douche-bag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vitellius Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I get that it's frustrating to lose a roll on something you really want. It's the nature of an MMO. This game can't have the same ideologies applied to it for looting that other MMOs currently do. The existence of companions, fully-gearable pets whose presence is assumed in the difficulty curve design for the 1-50 content, shifts things considerably. They're part of your character, a part without which you'd have a lot more difficulty. You are correct on 1 aspect. This can't use the same thinking that other MMOs have used. Therefore, it makes more sense to change the way we loot drops to account for it. The need/greed system that we are familiar with is a feature for a "non-companion" game. Companions add a new variable, so our loot rules should ALSO add a new variable to account for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldren Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 You are correct on 1 aspect. This can't use the same thinking that other MMOs have used. Therefore, it makes more sense to change the way we loot drops to account for it. The need/greed system that we are familiar with is a feature for a "non-companion" game. Companions add a new variable, so our loot rules should ALSO add a new variable to account for it. The concept of a tiered claim system that would, for example, put "Companion" above "Greed" but below "Need" seems logical, except for the same potential for abuse. People will stop choosing "Greed" altogether, and "Companion" becomes the new Greed. Even making it automatically bound doesn't deter the behavior. If they weren't actually going to upgrade their companion with the item, they'd have just vendored it anyway. I say assume the worst, which is everyone is going to vendor it, and make it Roll/Pass. If you want it, you want it, no "priority abuse" as people claim here. You roll for what you want, you pass on what you don't, no one can complain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaSexorcist Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I agree this is a dirt bag move in "theory". However, equipping your companion is almost as important as equipping yourself. The way need/greed is implemented, the guy should have rolled greed because that pistol should go to a PC first. BUT, it is all but impossible to know what another class needs if you haven't played that class, so what I think needs to happen, since everyone has a "pet" in this game, is that they should have three tiers to the need/greed system Player, Companion, Greed Player would be need as is implemented, (as a bonus, bioware could check to make sure said player can actually use the item and that it is an upgrade in stats.) Companion would be need or greed depending on the circumstances. If no one clicked player, then companion would get bumped to Need, but if one person rolled player, it would get demoted to greed. Greed is Greed This would allow me to say hey, I'd really like this, and I can use it as opposed to selling it, but it isn't for me directly. If one of you guys can use it directly, great, you get the need bump, but if you all roll greed, then I get priority as if I rolled need and I don't have to actually know what you all need in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amnie Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 there should be a 'need for companion' button... maybe they should rename 'greed' to that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formorianman Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 there should be a 'need for companion' button... maybe they should rename 'greed' to that Exactly once everyone is level 50 and have all there companions there will barely be any loot they couldn't roll on for there companion. So the new greed would be a companion roll. Effentively making a companion roll a greed roll and making a greed roll option obsolete. An easier solution would be to simply black out the need option if the player cannot equip the item on there character, *cough* same as WoW *cough* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts