Arsenal Mercs have zero survivability

[Moosimoo]

Cba to read all posts, but I'll say I do OK in PvP, I don't agree with the OP. I hate it when people say it, but l2p. BH as it is is perfectly viable, does good dps, you can KB then stun and unload a couple more salvo's into whoever is attacking you. I think you will find your biggest problem is probably lack of support from your team.

[LarkBenson]

You're right all i fight is incompetents and all i do is aoe stat pad....lol ok

 

Considering you're the one that thinks all melee truck us and we can't win a 1v1 against them lets go ahead and add you to the list of "Incompetents" I apparently fight, and when I Aoe stat pad you to death i'll be laughing in the corner at everything you did wrong.

 

See this is where you lose credibility. You don't actually present any evidence other than, 'we're fine, it's you'. I'd like you to explain how you keep an equally geared PT/jugg/marauder/assassin off of you without relying on rakata stims, and without knocking them off of a catwalk.

[Gadrak]

You're right all i fight is incompetents and all i do is aoe stat pad....lol ok

 

Considering you're the one that thinks all melee truck us and we can't win a 1v1 against them lets go ahead and add you to the list of "Incompetents" I apparently fight, and when I Aoe stat pad you to death i'll be laughing in the corner at everything you did wrong.

 

you sound like a very elitist and arrogant player that doesnt add anything to contribute to the op

 

at least he is contributing in a constructive way instead of just whining "ueeeee mercs suck ueeeee"

 

anyway returning to the topic

 

i just got my first 3 pieces of battlemaster gear(head,boots and gloves),and i have to say that when im backed up by my healer im a nuclear warhead,(again im fighing a lot of undergeared players),but when i fight on 1v1 without my healer support(fight a geared guy) there are not a lot of option that i can use,recently i tried cybertech and god if i love those grenades,the one that deals 2000 kinetic damage and slows the enemy for 8 seconds is neat,if i dont have this beauty on CD i can fight even equally geared assasins

(i throw the grenade after they use the force speed,if he is specced tank there is the chance that he could break the slow by using it),the grenades are giving to me the bit of cc snare and survivability that i need,it's once every 5 mins but alas,at least im not eternally a free kill for assassins.

[Typheran]

It's sad that a Jedi Consular has an interrupt but we don't.

 

How the hell am I suppose to beat one? Impossible.

[Rimbaldo]

You're right all i fight is incompetents and all i do is aoe stat pad....lol ok

 

Considering you're the one that thinks all melee truck us and we can't win a 1v1 against them lets go ahead and add you to the list of "Incompetents" I apparently fight, and when I Aoe stat pad you to death i'll be laughing in the corner at everything you did wrong.

 

You're full of crap. Moving on.

Edited January 12, 2012 by Rimbaldo

[Gadrak]

It's sad that a Jedi Consular has an interrupt but we don't.

 

How the hell am I suppose to beat one? Impossible.

 

jedi consular can be beaten by outbursting them,activate the shield cast tracer and when you get interrupted open with unload,then keep using tracer till you get heat signatures on him and use HSM,the problem is that he can escape pretty easily with his force speed,unload snare is pathetic and will rarely work

 

in short you can make him retreat but not kill him

[Evilsteps]

As a arsenal BH, if I have melee hounding me and I can't get rid of them quickly with either Jet Boost or Rocket Punch and my Electro-dart is on CD then I usually resort to pillar humping or some other form of LoS to either get a quick heal off, or till help arrives. Sometimes it is more effective than others, but spamming all our instant cast abilities that we can do on the move is rarely enough to win.

[Infighter]

So many deluded people in this thread.

 

No, I'm sorry, but BH Ars right now are anything but fine in PvP. Sure, if I can stand on a ramp and nobody cares about me I can top damage, get 8 medals and immortal and I feel like I'm the best player EU; but that doesn't mean that my class is fine, it just means the people I'm fighting are dumb.

 

Meanwhile, as soon as people notice where those missiles are coming from, I get a melee leaping or coming out from stealth to rotflstomp me. Reason? Our mobility is tied to a 2m CD, 3/4 of our damage comes from an ability we have to spam and our defensive cooldowns have long CDs and are mostly useless. Let's also talk how we have no reliable snare, no sprint and our ONLY peel is a knockback with 15s cd after it's talented and a set bonus. Because, I'm sorry to tell you but Rocket Punch knockback is nothing but a melee interrupt since it knocks people back like what, 3 meters? Helps a lot. And it also fills the Resolve bar!!!

 

I have heavy armor, yes, but I feel like that means absolutely nothing in pvp right now with all the armor pen going on and elemental damage.

 

The only thing we have right now is DAMAGE. And that means a lot when OPs can run around in stealth and open for 4k non-crit and do 3k in their other GDs, while having much more effective defensive cooldowns (vanish, evasion, bubble) or Sorcs that have so much more mobility and effective heals (together with bubble) compared to us.

 

So please, before spouting about how great you are at this class and wreak everything, fight against actual people in similar gear and level and not level 11s who are doing their pvp quest.

 

On a side note: lack of mobility seems to be a huge part of this class in general. Even as a healer I only have 1 heal I can use on my self while on the move (with looooong cd) and, while Pyrotech has more mobility than Arsenal in its damage, it's still stuck into casting its 1.5 cast time skill and Unload for procs to do the most damage... in which you'd rather just be Ars since it does much more damage and Pyro doesn't have the shorter cd on Jet Boost (which is still the only peel even in that tree!).

 

After this small (!!!11!) rant, I believe that a way to fix us it to have a 6s snare on HSM and a "blink"-like skill on a short CD... it would at least give us a CHANCE against melees. I don't care if this mean our damage is nerfed, I'd rather live than being a glass cannon.

[Crackcarton]

So many deluded people in this thread.

 

So many unskilled players in this thread.

 

You have absolutely no idea how incredibly broken our class would be if we had a "Blink" and a snare on HSM

[Gadrak]

So many unskilled players in this thread.

 

You have absolutely no idea how incredibly broken our class would be if we had a "Blink" and a snare on HSM

 

Godmaster Crackcarton has spoken sacrifice virgins in his name

[PanzerKing]

Godmaster Crackcarton has spoken sacrifice virgins in his name

 

Actually, he's absolutely right. Arsenal would be stupidly broken with those two abilities. Yes, it feels like it could use a snare-breaker or a more reliable snare or a little bit more instant-cast damage, but it only needs one of those things. Giving any more than one of those would make Arsenal outright OP. Personally, I might like a talent that procs when you take damage and lets you fire unload while moving. That would be pretty nifty.

[Gadrak]

Actually, he's absolutely right. Arsenal would be stupidly broken with those two abilities. Yes, it feels like it could use a snare-breaker or a more reliable snare or a little bit more instant-cast damage, but it only needs one of those things. Giving any more than one of those would make Arsenal outright OP. Personally, I might like a talent that procs when you take damage and lets you fire unload while moving. That would be pretty nifty.

 

as i said the only thing that the merc need is an ability to escape from the enemy,even with a long CD,having a snare and an escape would be too much,a single CC or an escape would be enough to make the merc some way competitive on 1v1

 

i was hironic because everything that crack is sayng is "lololol im pro you suck l2p"cant say that he is contributing a lot on the op besides calling other people unskilled and acting elitist

[Infighter]

So many unskilled players in this thread.

 

You have absolutely no idea how incredibly broken our class would be if we had a "Blink" and a snare on HSM

 

Meanwhile we try to be constructive, what have you been doing for the entirety of this thread? Absolutely nothing.

[Yazule]

Meanwhile we try to be constructive, what have you been doing for the entirety of this thread? Absolutely nothing.

 

i would say her honesty and clear mindedness to not ask for something that would make us gods are quite constructive.

 

I think we could use a tweek but all tweeks I see proposed are WAY more than we need.

 

We do great dps, so we get focused fire, the fact they focus fire on us shows we are a noteworthy asset.

 

tbh i am not repspeccing for pvp with a hybred for more survivability purely because the guild needs my max dps for raids (i still have a hard time thinking of 8 man as a raid tbh).

 

Someday when there is enough dps in the guild i will respec, as for now i am satisfied trying to be sneaky or finding a tank sheild or healer to back me up so i can *** burst on poor suckers.

 

my experience is i feel like a hero or a zero depending on the makeup of my WG group or the opposing one.

 

it can be frustrating but that is the life of a pure dps ar merc atm

[Infighter]

i would say her honesty and clear mindedness to not ask for something that would make us gods are quite constructive.

 

I don't think you know what the word constructive means.

 

Saying "lol no you're wrong scrub l2p" is not constructive. Saying why s/he believes having those skills added would be too strong for whatever reason is constructive. If he doesn't have time to type out what s/he thinks then s/he should not post at all because his/her comments have no meaning aside from flamebaiting.

[Yazule]

I don't think you know what the word constructive means.

 

Saying "lol no you're wrong scrub l2p" is not constructive. Saying why s/he believes having those skills added would be too strong for whatever reason is constructive. If he doesn't have time to type out what s/he thinks then s/he should not post at all because his/her comments have no meaning aside from flamebaiting.

 

but she didnt say that, maybe the problem is your ability to understand english. She said that if we had the skills you recomend we would NEED a nerf, and I agree.

 

i saw no scrub or l2p, you insulted as an opener to your post, she just countered it, at that point you were even, then of course you had to get your epeen to grow so you threw back, I am defending her because she is right and you are wrong. you may play your class well but you play the boards poorly.

[Infighter]

but she didnt say that, maybe the problem is your ability to understand english. She said that if we had the skills you recomend we would NEED a nerf, and I agree.

 

i saw no scrub or l2p, you insulted as an opener to your post, she just countered it, at that point you were even, then of course you had to get your epeen to grow so you threw back, I am defending her because she is right and you are wrong. you may play your class well but you play the boards poorly.

 

But she is not saying WHY and that is not constructive. She is just saying what she thinks without giving any reason behind them. You agree, but with what? Why do you think she is right? From what I see it she is being elitist WITHOUT any words to back her facts up and so are you, saying that you are agree with her without telling us poor mortals what you think.

 

I said why I think currently the class doesn't work, all of her answer was "No you're wrong this would make us too strong" BUT WHY? Is it because of our damage? Is it because of our CC? Is it because of our cool looking missiles?

 

We are on a forum trying to make a discussion, not "playing the boards" whatever that means. Her comments are worthless because they are adding absolutely NOTHING to it aside from elitism (because, I'm sorry, but that is what I'm grasping from her comments, "l2p" and stuff are just synonyms).

 

If she believes that we do not need that, why does she not tell us what we are doing wrong that makes us want them?

 

I agree that having both would be overkill as of right now, I had debated about putting an "/or" but it crossed my mind later, but that is also why I said that I wouldn't mind having a little nerf in damage if it would increase my survavibility.

[Gadrak]

but she didnt say that, maybe the problem is your ability to understand english. She said that if we had the skills you recomend we would NEED a nerf, and I agree.

 

i saw no scrub or l2p, you insulted as an opener to your post, she just countered it, at that point you were even, then of course you had to get your epeen to grow so you threw back, I am defending her because she is right and you are wrong. you may play your class well but you play the boards poorly.

 

im starting to mind YOUR ability to read english,s\he started the flame debat and the elitist actitude

 

returning to the op

 

the fact that a lot of arsenal mercenaries think that the class is fine,is because

 

they are backed up by solid teams,and they dont have to worry a lot about 1v1 fight,since when you play with your teammates they can cover pretty much every your weakness(i currently play with a Sorc healer and everytime im getting jumped on she uses the friendly pull ability to get me out of trouble),since the only thing that you can do is burst damage,when you are backed up,you became unstoppable,and that's what gives to most mercenaries the feeling of being unstoppable

 

but what you have to keep in mind is

 

THIS HAPPENS WITH EVERY CLASS IN THE GAME

 

good support or good teamwork can make every class much more enjoyable

 

when you are not supported(1v1 fights)things start to go grim,anytime that you get jumped by a melee you use your knockback attack and since all the classes(on the next patch even jedi guardian and the juggernaut) have at least 2 ways to close the distance you are going to use the stun,but what happens now?,he trinket the stun the resolve bar is filled and since your main damaging ability is interruptable and you dont have any other escape,you are good as dead.

 

atm i feel like arsenal mercs are very similar to warriors on WoW(wait dont laugh read it all),you are a good teamwork player,but on single you are absolutely atrocious.

 

we just need an escape tool even with a long CD(only for arsenal ofc)and the class would be absolutely fine

 

powertechs have 2 tools,one for bringing the enemy to them and one(talented)to close the distance to their enemy

 

why cant we have both a tool to knock the enemy away and a (talented)tool to get away from the enemy?

[RpTheHotrod]

As long as my cooldowns are not down, I never have had a problem with any 1 on 1 except for 1 time I went against a staff saber guy who was hitting for 10k a swing (no joke).

 

Just have to make good use of jetblast, rocket punch, stuns, and if necessary if cooldowns are down, concussion rocket.

 

I wish our CC breaker made us immune to snares for a few seconds, though...

Edited January 13, 2012 by RpTheHotrod

[Yazule]

im starting to mind YOUR ability to read english,s\he started the flame debat and the elitist actitude

 

returning to the op

 

the fact that a lot of arsenal mercenaries think that the class is fine,is because

 

they are backed up by solid teams,and they dont have to worry a lot about 1v1 fight,since when you play with your teammates they can cover pretty much every your weakness(i currently play with a Sorc healer and everytime im getting jumped on she uses the friendly pull ability to get me out of trouble),since the only thing that you can do is burst damage,when you are backed up,you became unstoppable,and that's what gives to most mercenaries the feeling of being unstoppable

 

but what you have to keep in mind is

 

THIS HAPPENS WITH EVERY CLASS IN THE GAME

 

good support or good teamwork can make every class much more enjoyable

 

when you are not supported(1v1 fights)things start to go grim,anytime that you get jumped by a melee you use your knockback attack and since all the classes(on the next patch even jedi guardian and the juggernaut) have at least 2 ways to close the distance you are going to use the stun,but what happens now?,he trinket the stun the resolve bar is filled and since your main damaging ability is interruptable and you dont have any other escape,you are good as dead.

 

atm i feel like arsenal mercs are very similar to warriors on WoW(wait dont laugh read it all),you are a good teamwork player,but on single you are absolutely atrocious.

 

we just need an escape tool even with a long CD(only for arsenal ofc)and the class would be absolutely fine

 

powertechs have 2 tools,one for bringing the enemy to them and one(talented)to close the distance to their enemy

 

why cant we have both a tool to knock the enemy away and a (talented)tool to get away from the enemy?

 

He called people delusional she retorted with calling him unskilled from what i can see, *** for tat there may be some pecking 4 pages back that i did not notice *shrug*

 

end of the day you CANNOT balance pvp 1v1, just logistically impossible, it is a group effort and you make my personal point that in a group that knows what they are doing you are a pivotal player.

 

granted 1v1 without escape there is the rock paper scissor effect and we die more often than not, but in the end i find that inconsequential.

 

it is rather annoying to have someone go into stealth to escape losing, if i am expecting 1v1 though i use combustible cylinder because dot's fix that. We are definitely not a 1v1 class though and i wouldn't complain with a little more survivability or escape, maybe a snare... but we don't "NEED" it badly.

 

I am not optimized for solo pvp (i think the hybrid spec would be best) because my guild needs my dps for raids, yes i do both!

 

So I rolled a sorcerer because they have very similar end result abilities and though still low level i seem to pwn more than i did as BH. Is that because i know the game that much better or because of the class? I don't know yet! Everyone says sorc does everything we do but better, i guess i will find out .

 

and i understood her point clearly, with a blink we would have people all up in arms about us to nerf, we are close to that line already people dumb enough to stand in my fire while i stack up heat sigs and wtfpwn them with rail/hs/unload combo.

 

I think it is the classes with high dps and escapes that are the issue atm, but that can be mitigated with a simple dot.

 

One class has to be the center of the nerf/love universe, and I would prefer they leave us alone and love/nerf the other classes to balance around us, but at least if we get any changes it appears it will be more love than nerf from everything i can read...

 

i really feel sorry for the OP's guys though, i see a giant nerfbat swinging their way.

[Crackcarton]

I don't think you know what the word constructive means.

 

Saying "lol no you're wrong scrub l2p" is not constructive. Saying why s/he believes having those skills added would be too strong for whatever reason is constructive. If he doesn't have time to type out what s/he thinks then s/he should not post at all because his/her comments have no meaning aside from flamebaiting.

 

Can i direct you to page 6 of the thread were I go in depth on how to 1v1 an op/scound

[Infighter]

Can i direct you to page 6 of the thread were I go in depth on how to 1v1 an op/scound

 

I saw that, and it's appreciated. But it doesn't give you the rights of being a troll for the rest of the thread.

[Osirium]

As a current Pyro Merc I must agree we do need the extra mobility in Arsenal.

 

Take in mind that I leveled and stayed in Arsenal specc for a long time until I recently changed to Pyro just for the "damage on the run" and tbh I have less problems with melees/sorcs as I did with Arsenal Spec.

 

I tweaked Arsenal with Afterburners, Talented Rocket Punch and even Pinning Fire just for PVP sake and guess what....I was tore apart by any decent melee that noticed my incredible Missiles flying all over the place.

 

We have 0 mobility, im sorry to say that even with all the talented abilitys, the extra reduced CD on Jet Boost, talented RP for the extra knockback all I get is a lousy 4sec life span after it ends.

 

Sure I agree that WZ's are meant to be played as a group, not only for Enemy Team CC but Objectives wise but that is accomplished with premades and some occasional players that happen to think teamlike.

 

It isnt meant for 1v1 but you're sure gonna get alot of it still and when that happens either you run to LoS which indeed stops their initial burst but on the other hands prevents you from doing anything either.

 

Its funny getting a drop on a Sorc (equally champ geared) see him POP his shield after eating 2 maybe 3 initial unoticed TM's and then facing you, CCing you, Heal, Burst, Dot and lighting you like a christmas tree so when you check his HP pool and yours you realize you at 10% and he's at 50% laughing and of course sticking to you like glue.

 

The fact is you cant escape and even if you do you need to LoS to get a "small" heal off maybe 2 on which you aint doing anything either.

 

You run like a slug, you have long CC CD's and insta CM with a waste of 2 GCD's and as always another long CD.

 

Electro-Dart is useful to an extent, Jet Boost and Rocket Punch are situacional and only effective in huttbal, CM is a 2sec cast and IF you want to cast it insta you need to waste another 2m ability (cant recall if its 2m the CD on Power Surge) just to get a small gap which in the end will not save you either.

 

Arsenal is a great Damage Source, true but only if unchecked and don't say you have alot of "on-the-move" abilities because I dont consider Missile Blast with its 25 heat increase effective neither Explosive Dart etc while moving a 1mph mobility/survability.

 

Even Juggers (only have a medium leveled alt so i cant speak for the rest of the classes in this matter) can stance dance on the move while ours require to STOP while it changes to either Combat Gas or HVC.

 

We need a gap creator, period.

Edited January 13, 2012 by Osirium

[Crackcarton]

Jet Boost and Rocket Punch are situacional and only effective in huttbal

 

So knocking a melee off you and slowing them is only effective in huttball???? I understand its MORE effective in huttball because you can use terrain to your advantage, but creating that gap can be the difference between winning and losing fights against melee regardless of whether or not you're in huttball

 

Its funny getting a drop on a Sorc (equally champ geared) see him POP his shield after eating 2 maybe 3 initial unoticed TM's and then facing you, CCing you, Heal, Burst, Dot and lighting you like a christmas tree so when you check his HP pool and yours you realize you at 10% and he's at 50% laughing and of course sticking to you like glue.

 

 

What's to say you can't do the same to him???? cc him heal to full continue bursting, it works both ways not to mention sorc's don't really have burst all the good sorc's i've seen are madness and it focuses around Dot's not burst

Edited January 13, 2012 by Crackcarton

[LarkBenson]

Can i direct you to page 6 of the thread were I go in depth on how to 1v1 an op/scound

 

Yeah that's all well and good, but it doesn't cover how to beat anyone with a brain; this idea of 'forcing their re-stealth' is moronic. It HAS to be reactionary, because if you try to pre-empt it by placing it over them when you stun, they can easilly pop evasion, shield as they close to flash bang range, then re-stealth outside scan range and proceed to open back up on you. And you're dead, because you've already used your CC AND your trinket.

 

According to your guide, you basically have a 4 second window to kill them during electrodart. Good plan!

 

You also haven't bothered to mention how you'd counter any other melee classes.

 

Again, I invite you to give us your pro tips and blow our minds with your awesomeness.