Arsenal Mercs have zero survivability

[Yazule]

Unload For sure but generally if your fighting someone your not getting a full unload channel off, my heatseekers crit anywhere from 4k-5.5 with my highest being just over 6k with trinks and surge pot

 

yeah i am looking forward to that kind of dps, though even without a full pvp set i pull good enough numbers to get picked out of the crowd on my server lol

 

i dont think we are broken fyi, I think we are working as intended, the fact that I am often the focus of fire proves that, now if only my wife the healer would level up so someone could keep me up long enough to show them what dps really is (she is OPs but would rather heal, go figure)

[Crackcarton]

yeah i am looking forward to that kind of dps, though even without a full pvp set i pull good enough numbers to get picked out of the crowd on my server lol

 

i dont think we are broken fyi, I think we are working as intended, the fact that I am often the focus of fire proves that, now if only my wife the healer would level up so someone could keep me up long enough to show them what dps really is (she is OPs but would rather heal, go figure)

 

Having Biochem as my Prof really helps me, the rakata medpac heals for 4.5k- 5k + 1k over 6 sec with the pvp debuff up. If i have a healbot... well thats a different story cause i'm easily doing 450-500k in that case

[Yazule]

Having Biochem as my Prof really helps me, the rakata medpac heals for 4.5k- 5k + 1k over 6 sec with the pvp debuff up. If i have a healbot... well thats a different story cause i'm easily doing 450-500k in that case

 

sadly i am armortech, guild officer and keeping compainions geared and all, would drop it but i have so many purples i would lose

 

i want bio so badly!

[Qcto]

i fight a lot of time a buddy of mine that is an operative full champion equipped,with me full champion equipped,yes i die in a single stun,if i pop the shield he just vanish and wait that it finish to came back on me and terminate me instantly

 

we can discuss about the bounty hunter reliabilty on pvp all the day long,but please stop defending the operative/scoundrel outburst,even for a burst class,it's just too much

 

Try healing yourself while he waits for the shield to go off? also as soon as he vanishes just put stealth scan on top of where he is, it has a huge aoe. Stop complaining about ops when you have tools to deal with it.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Qcto

[Gadrak]

Try healing yourself while he waits for the shield to go off? also as soon as he vanishes just put stealth scan on top of where he is, it has a huge aoe. Stop complaining about ops when you have tools to deal with it.

 

A small circle with 20 secs cd?Is this your idea of a counter?,sure maybe If im lucky enough i could catch him 1 or 2 times out of 10 but this is hardly a counter,at least The stealth Scan of The PT can stun The enemy that reveals.

 

Sure i can heal myself,but since The opener drains 80% of my health pool how is this any different?

 

Look i understand that they need to be bursty to be pvp effective,but as arsenal merc since im mobile like an House and that my main ability is castable and interruptable,i need something to fight back,jetboost is good but If im not on huttball it's not enough.

[Typheran]

I'm playing an Arsenal Merc just playing it a lot better than you

 

If you are saying that you can win vs a 50 melee class consistently your not very truthful. Say what you want it's not possible.

 

Only thing your doing better than me is living in denial.

[Juicenewtonz]

If you are saying that you can win vs a 50 melee class consistently your not very truthful. Say what you want it's not possible.

 

Only thing your doing better than me is living in denial.

 

Its possible and not even that hard, hell as pyrotech its stupidly easy.

[Crackcarton]

If you are saying that you can win vs a 50 melee class consistently your not very truthful. Say what you want it's not possible.

 

Only thing your doing better than me is living in denial.

 

 

It's not gonna bother me that you don't believe me lol.

 

1.They open on you proceed to trinket pop power surge instant concussion blast.

 

2. One of two things will now happen they either instant trinket in which you will then electrodart giving you 4 free seconds of damage and or spreading the gap or, they will eat it as you heal yourself to full in turn opening on them once you have topped yourself off/spread the gap.

 

3. By now you will be ready to force their vanish, this is where you proceed to pop Stealth Scan pulling them out of vanish and finishing them off, or you missed the stealth scan and they run off heal to full as you continue about your bg.

 

CONGRATULATIONS YOU'VE SUCCESSFULLY COUNTERED AND OP/SCOUND

 

PS.

 

If they even get remotely close to you its not hard to use your surrounding to aid you knocking them off ledges etc with your jet boost = dead op/scound

[Lightmgl]

It's not gonna bother me that you don't believe me lol.

 

1.They open on you proceed to trinket pop power surge instant concussion blast.

 

2. One of two things will now happen they either instant trinket in which you will then electrodart giving you 4 free seconds of damage and or spreading the gap or, they will eat it as you heal yourself to full in turn opening on them once you have topped yourself off/spread the gap.

 

3. By now you will be ready to force their vanish, this is where you proceed to pop Stealth Scan pulling them out of vanish and finishing them off, or you missed the stealth scan and they run off heal to full as you continue about your bg.

 

CONGRATULATIONS YOU'VE SUCCESSFULLY COUNTERED AND OP/SCOUND

 

PS.

 

If they even get remotely close to you its not hard to use your surrounding to aid you knocking them off ledges etc with your jet boost = dead op/scound

 

I've got no problem dealing with a melee class on me either, with 2 it gets a bit tricky. It helps alot if you can Conc one while you kill the other.

 

Anyways as said above Stealth Scan does wonders vs the stealthers, theres no escape and no double stun if you do it right. Keep Power Shot on your bars, if they kick Tracer immediately switch or try to get them to waste a kick on an Unload.

 

Save your burst for when they hit 50% so they don't get a chance to see it coming and take them out.

 

Really the only thing thats a problem is consumable stacking and thats pretty much an issue for everyone in PvP right now not just us. The burst attainable by everyone except a couple of classes is absurd and if people dump that on you, you are probably dead without some cooldowns to counter it.

[Myrkel]

I play a PvE spec Arsenal in PVP and I maybe die 2 or 3 times in a match on average(and its usually because i get cocky), and end the match with top damage and kills.

 

Our survivability is fine. We have a good array of abilities that allows us to knock people away or cc them so we can either burst them down or kite them to group of friendlies or to an area where you can get a few heals off.

 

We have some of the highest effective armor and health along with high burst, 2 knock backs, 25% damage shield, stuns and heals. What are you expecting? To live through an onslaught of 3 or 4 people? Because there aren't many classes that can do that as is, specially by themselves.

 

I think the issue is you lack of ability to play our class effectively. Heres some advise:

-Pick up biochem, best Flask, Damage potion and Healing Potion in the game and they're all infinite use.

-Keep the high ground. It's easy to LoS casters or knock annoying melee off, then burst them down when they cant reach you.

-If you see a large group in your path move away and pick them off individually.

-Take Death from Above off your bars. You have better abilities that are far more effective and make you less of a stationary and visible target.

[SoNofHuD]

I have been hearing more and more pyro's LOL @ arsenal saying it is a PvE spec. Maybe they just dont like that playstyle or whatever but it is a viable PvP spec if you can play it correctly.

 

The obvious complaint is Arsenal is not mobile and pyro is? Pyro gets + 1 additional instant cast with incindiary missle. Thermal detonator is instant but so is heatseeker missles. Arsenal still gets rail shot it just does not have the proc cooldown of pyro.

 

In addtion, the cooldown on jet boost for arsenal is crazy fast so if people get close to you, you can knock them back and snare....plus determination cool down is lowered by 30 sec which with the amount of stuns in pvp its kinda nice. Rocket punch also has a knockback which is useful in PvP. Heat management with arsenal is going to be way easier too with thermal sensor overide having faster cooldown as well vent heat on crits.

 

Is it is a traditional PvP spec? No but I would argue neither is pyro. Powertech would be the way to go, but that doesn't change the fact that arsenal and pryo are both great class specs for PvP and can do tons of damage. Bodyguard/hybrid is a great survivability solo pvp spec. Just depends on what you want to do and how you want to do damage.

[Hornedowl]

In the original film (Episode 2), we see that the only thing that bounty hunter can counter the jedi - is his jet pack. He just flies away from being slaughtered by lightsaber, to launch a missle from the top. Hell, Fett almost killed Kenobi with his jet pack! The only reason of Jango Fett's death, was damaged jet pack.

 

In SWTOR BH does not use the jet pack for its purpose. We are really need some kind of Jet Escape ability, which can be used only when heat level is below 40% and generates a great amount of heat (or/and delay for most powerfull dd abilities).

Edited January 11, 2012 by Hornedowl

[Furyofwar]

Staying at max range only lasts as long as no one notices you...most melee have leap that will close to you from near your max range...

 

Happens every match in Void star....I run up till I can cast at my MAX range...fire off maybe two-three abilitys and get a jedi leaping in my face.

 

But I'm staying at RANGE like all the helpfull poster say I shold be doing!

 

It is completly impossible to dps someone down who can leap like that before they close on you....if you use your jets they just leap right back...electro dart them....run for 4 sec and get maybe 5 feet as your slowed from that stupid damage snare thing in pvp.

 

The question is why do you fail at fighting melee? They are a joke...

Knock them back. Stun them or tank them. Simple.

 

Ill go ahead an say it. If you have issues with any class with interrupts and you are a arsenal Merc your bad at pvp. Figure out why on your own i'm to good to explain it to you.

Edited January 11, 2012 by Furyofwar

[salamanderx]

I have been hearing more and more pyro's LOL @ arsenal saying it is a PvE spec. Maybe they just dont like that playstyle or whatever but it is a viable PvP spec if you can play it correctly.

 

The obvious complaint is Arsenal is not mobile and pyro is? Pyro gets + 1 additional instant cast with incindiary missle. Thermal detonator is instant but so is heatseeker missles. Arsenal still gets rail shot it just does not have the proc cooldown of pyro.

 

In addtion, the cooldown on jet boost for arsenal is crazy fast so if people get close to you, you can knock them back and snare....plus determination cool down is lowered by 30 sec which with the amount of stuns in pvp its kinda nice. Rocket punch also has a knockback which is useful in PvP. Heat management with arsenal is going to be way easier too with thermal sensor overide having faster cooldown as well vent heat on crits.

 

Is it is a traditional PvP spec? No but I would argue neither is pyro. Powertech would be the way to go, but that doesn't change the fact that arsenal and pryo are both great class specs for PvP and can do tons of damage. Bodyguard/hybrid is a great survivability solo pvp spec. Just depends on what you want to do and how you want to do damage.

 

But... pyro is more mobile because you arent spamming tracer missile

 

haha seriously that and the fact that you can get rail shot up more often too. Although you have to unload to do it, you should be able to find natural pauses to do this without losing mobility too much.

[Furyofwar]

But... pyro is more mobile because you arent spamming tracer missile

 

haha seriously that and the fact that you can get rail shot up more often too. Although you have to unload to do it, you should be able to find natural pauses to do this without losing mobility too much.

 

Pyrotech sucks cause your knock backs are a joke. When you add those to Arsenal and the fact it kills faster then you because you have to wait on your dots then your spec does not look very good nor does your mobility. An you overheat easier which makes you a easier target to kill when focused on.

Edited January 11, 2012 by Furyofwar

[SoNofHuD]

But... pyro is more mobile because you arent spamming tracer missile

 

haha seriously that and the fact that you can get rail shot up more often too. Although you have to unload to do it, you should be able to find natural pauses to do this without losing mobility too much.

 

 

Yeah unload = 3 sec channel and 2 x tracer missile can be launched in that same amount of time. So Pyro also relies on a skill that requires you to be stationary at least for 3 seconds. The point is arsenal does not mean you have to stand still and just spam tracer - if you work with your various skills and abilities you can make it was just as good if not better than pyro.

[ChuckThePug]

 

1.They open on you proceed to trinket pop power surge instant concussion blast.

 

 

 

which trinket is this?

 

 

 

Can someone also explain the arsenal burst in PVP? I'm not seeing it with the channeled tracer missiles. thanks.

Edited January 11, 2012 by ChuckThePug

[ChuckThePug]

another question. As Arsenal, do you change your "ability action queue window" at all?

[Rimbaldo]

The people saying we have "AMAZING DPS" are high, pretty much every other DPS oriented class in the game can put out the same numbers we can. We're not getting anything out of this supposed trade-off you all keep pointing to.

[Crackcarton]

The people saying we have "AMAZING DPS" are high, pretty much every other DPS oriented class in the game can put out the same numbers we can. We're not getting anything out of this supposed trade-off you all keep pointing to.

 

I've never seen an assassin or sniper put out remotely close numbers to mine.

 

Like I have said to everyone else complaining about mercs, YOUR DOING SOMETHING WRONG.

[Rimbaldo]

I've never seen an assassin or sniper put out remotely close numbers to mine.

 

Like I have said to everyone else complaining about mercs, YOUR DOING SOMETHING WRONG.

 

No, you're just fighting undergeared players or incompetents. I'm assuming everybody is in Champion gear here. Every class can push out 6-7k crits if they use the Biochem trinkets and expertise potions. Either that or you're one of those Bounty Hunters who only looks at total damage done at the end of the match and thinks all the stat-padding you did with AoE means you hit harder than everybody else.

 

Ill go ahead an say it. If you have issues with any class with interrupts and you are a arsenal Merc your bad at pvp. Figure out why on your own i'm to good to explain it to you.

 

I can guarantee you that I would absolutely truck you on an Operative or a Marauder in equal gear and I've got less than a couple days' worth of playtime on both those alts combined. They have more tools to stay in melee range than a merc has to stay out of it. It's common sense; there is no magic bullet. I don't know why people like you keep insisting there is so you can feel better about yourselves and pretend you've figured something out that has eluded the rest of us mere simpletons. It's sad, please give it up.

Edited January 12, 2012 by Rimbaldo

[Murderous]

Staying at max range only lasts as long as no one notices you...most melee have leap that will close to you from near your max range...

 

Happens every match in Void star....I run up till I can cast at my MAX range...fire off maybe two-three abilitys and get a jedi leaping in my face.

 

But I'm staying at RANGE like all the helpfull poster say I shold be doing!

 

It is completly impossible to dps someone down who can leap like that before they close on you....if you use your jets they just leap right back...electro dart them....run for 4 sec and get maybe 5 feet as your slowed from that stupid damage snare thing in pvp.

 

 

theres a red icon ability...forgot the name, removes all snares,cc's stuns...cure? something like that..

[LarkBenson]

No, you're just fighting undergeared players or incompetents. I'm assuming everybody is in Champion gear here. Every class can push out 6-7k crits if they use the Biochem trinkets and expertise potions. Either that or you're one of those Bounty Hunters who only looks at total damage done at the end of the match and thinks all the stat-padding you did with AoE means you hit harder than everybody else.

 

I can guarantee you that I would absolutely truck you on an Operative or a Marauder in equal gear and I've got less than a couple days' worth of playtime on both those alts combined. They have more tools to stay in melee range than a merc has to stay out of it. It's common sense; there is no magic bullet. I don't know why people like you keep insisting there is so you can feel better about yourselves and pretend you've figured something out that has eluded the rest of us mere simpletons. It's sad, please give it up.

 

Thank you for being sane.

 

I was originally of the opinion that arsenal mercs were fine until I really started to grind out rank 60 valor after getting full champ. As I've seen more and more full champ melee in the last week or so, my opinion has take a complete 180.

 

There is no way to keep a geared and COMPETENT Jugg, Marauder, PT or assassin (and their mirrors obviously) off of you as arsenal. I'm not talking about those times you manage to knock someone off a catwalk, I'm talking about on even ground. The problem this creates is that good melee players will see an arsenal merc and make it their mission to shut you down for the match. I have this problem constantly, and since you run into the same players over and over as you grind out WZs, they know to target me as soon as they see me in the match because they know what happens if they don't and that unless I'm running with a premade, I might as well leave the match because I become useless. And before you chime in with 'it's clearly just you', I've spoken to these players (I get about 80%+ huttball so I often play with them as well) and they all say the same thing: they have no problems taking down any arsenal merc they meet unless they get jumped first. Sometimes it's close, but most of the time it's not.

[Crackcarton]

No, you're just fighting undergeared players or incompetents. I'm assuming everybody is in Champion gear here. Every class can push out 6-7k crits if they use the Biochem trinkets and expertise potions. Either that or you're one of those Bounty Hunters who only looks at total damage done at the end of the match and thinks all the stat-padding you did with AoE means you hit harder than everybody else.

 

 

 

I can guarantee you that I would absolutely truck you on an Operative or a Marauder in equal gear and I've got less than a couple days' worth of playtime on both those alts combined. They have more tools to stay in melee range than a merc has to stay out of it. It's common sense; there is no magic bullet. I don't know why people like you keep insisting there is so you can feel better about yourselves and pretend you've figured something out that has eluded the rest of us mere simpletons. It's sad, please give it up.

 

You're right all i fight is incompetents and all i do is aoe stat pad....lol ok

 

Considering you're the one that thinks all melee truck us and we can't win a 1v1 against them lets go ahead and add you to the list of "Incompetents" I apparently fight, and when I Aoe stat pad you to death i'll be laughing in the corner at everything you did wrong.

[Irishbrewed]

I would give up anything to move Afterburners to pyro or somehow remove the TM spam mechanic for more 1v1 viability. Not that we can not roll someone 1v1 but if interrupted its very unlikely all things equal. I really like afterburners and the low heat management of arsenal but the TM spam is lame IMO.