RichLather Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 What hes trying to say is that in EQ, etc. the point of the game wasn't so much to lvl to max level...but to explore, make friends, and feel like youre part of the world. WoW destroyed that idea and formed the phrase, " the game doesn't start till your 60 " This wasn't the case in EQ. In fact, I played EQ quite a bit and never reached max level, though I had a great times and enjoyed myself thoroughly. But the game that didnt start till 60 was a much better game and a much better experience, so why are you making it sound like a bad thing lol? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
displaynameinuse Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 But the game that didnt start till 60 was a much better game and a much better experience, so why are you making it sound like a bad thing lol? Whether it was better or not is subjective. What isn't subjective is that WoW, while originally based on EQ, became a completely different genre. I would love a cross between EQ and WoW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I for one welcome the days where MMOs are not designed to be played infinitely to the exclusion of everything else. Lots of other good games come out this year, and I'd like to play them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurnea Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I just had one of those lightbulb moments. You know, they dont happen often, but you know when they do. WHAM, a realization you never saw coming. If you had you would have dreaded its arrival. The death of the MMO, as the most loyal and obsessed fans know them. The noobs cannot understand, how could they? They never experienced EQ1 or any of the other "true" old school MMOs (or any real MMO at all for that matter). The ones where you actually had to dedicate part of your life to play them well, that actually felt like a real thriving world. Back then if you did not feel a true connection to the world, its creatures and your own character, well MMOs were not for you! Ah, yes, the days were people felt like old-school mmo time-grinds justified a lack of any social lifestyle. Where the top players were those that 'sacrificed' sleep and a social life to attain top server status. Yeah, don't exactly miss the days were people were called up at odd hours of the morning to take down some boss that just spawned. So what happened exactly? I think the community changed, and it took a nose dive straight into the dumpster. Yes I am refering to World of Warcraft. Those of us who started in Beta or when the game first came out have very fond memories of this game. In fact, ask a group of WoW players, all from Vanilla (basicly old school WoW, back when it was at its prime) and see what they say about their favorite memories from the game. Personally I will never forget some of my experiences in that game, and I hope I never do. The community was amazing back then, so alive, so fiery, so happy (ok most of the time). We loved WoW, and it was good for a long time. Funny, as someone who's spent considerable time on the WoW General boards, there have been a number of people I've talked to who said that Vanilla wasn't all it was cracked up to be. January 2012, SWTOR. An MMO where you could quite possibly level to 50 in 10 days. STOP! That's right, I said it is entirely possible to level from 1-50 in 10 days. How..could this happen? Who decided it was a good idea to cut out the point of an MMO? I don't know, but as you all know, SWTOR is what we got. Now we are stuck with it. Only time will tell if the MMO genre as a whole is destroyed utterly, or if TOR will simply die quickly and allow a new, hopefully far more experienced company to try again. Either way, it is a sad day for the hardcore community, the MMO community as a whole, and gaming as a whole. This paints perhaps the worst picture I can think of considering what constitutes 'hardcore'. You didn't mention the difficulty, you didn't go into that anyone going from 1-50 in 10 days was either poopsocking and/or spacebar skipping through every line of dialogue. Your only concern was the timesink, how long it took. Is this all MMO's are for you, a way to justify killing time? TOR was never marketed as a 'hardcore' mmo, it was blatantly a multiplayer sequel to KoTOR. Meanwhile there continues to be TONS of traditional time-sinks in the mmo community. Play anything by a korean studio, I guarantee it will be as grindy as you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imtrick Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) sounds like a hater. either way. WoW was pretty damn original. Sure it's blueprint was EQ...but it added tons of new ideas and innovated on nearly every aspect of EQ/DAOC. SWTOR is just WOW with starwars paint, as everyone has said for years now. Bioware did nothing to innovate the genre. They just added a few small "spins" on specific ideas, like being able to perform the same WoW crafting system without having to sit in town. Companions are just Pets. Your ship is just another instance that youre required to waste time in, and nothing else is new. I'm really not too interested in a "WoW is original and SW:TOR is not" argument, or vice versa. That wasn't my point. I realize a lot of this game uses ideas from previous MMOs (though I'd argue it's not so much "WoW with Star Wars paint" as "a classic MMORPG like WoW is"). The constant comparisons to WoW, as if WoW was the only MMO ever, are really tiresome. My point was that Blizzard doesn't innovate. Very few MMO publishers do any more. I think that's partly because WoW showed you could make a ton of money without it. They've also said Titan would be a casual MMO, which pretty much nixes it as a good choice for anyone looking for what the OP is looking for. It's already very clear that Blizzard is the last place the OP should be looking to get what he wants. I'm really curious what you would consider to be the "new ideas" Blizzard brought to the table, though. I honestly can't think of many things, if any, they did first. They're the Microsoft of game companies... they see something they like in other games and duplicate it. It obviously works for them, but I honestly can't think of anything truly innovative they've ever added to the genre. Not that I'm trying to slam their games. They do awfully well with them. But innovation? That's not really in their playbook. Edited January 9, 2012 by imtrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vitellius Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 What hes trying to say is that in EQ, etc. the point of the game wasn't so much to lvl to max level...but to explore, make friends, and feel like youre part of the world. WoW destroyed that idea and formed the phrase, " the game doesn't start till your 60 " This wasn't the case in EQ. In fact, I played EQ quite a bit and never reached max level, though I had a great times and enjoyed myself thoroughly. Fair enough. But if the OP bought this game looking for or expecting EQ style, there is something wrong with him. In addition, coming here to point out TOR somehow contributes to the downfall of the MMO will neither change the way things are nor get him a lot of fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mephismo Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Some seem to have the need to feel special. They think that spending **** loads of time playing games makes them so. Most of us are glad them days are gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talligan Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Because I would rather spend months grinding Rarab's, Birds and Mandrakes to get from one fun part of the game to the next because that way it seems like I'm getting my money's worth! Seriously, I'd rather have 10 days of fun than waste my life killing the same pixelated monster again and again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aisar Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 Ah, yes, the days were people felt like old-school mmo time-grinds justified a lack of any social lifestyle. Where the top players were those that 'sacrificed' sleep and a social life to attain top server status. Yeah, don't exactly miss the days were people were called up at odd hours of the morning to take down some boss that just spawned. Funny, as someone who's spent considerable time on the WoW General boards, there have been a number of people I've talked to who said that Vanilla wasn't all it was cracked up to be. This paints perhaps the worst picture I can think of considering what constitutes 'hardcore'. You didn't mention the difficulty, you didn't go into that anyone going from 1-50 in 10 days was either poopsocking and/or spacebar skipping through every line of dialogue. Your only concern was the timesink, how long it took. Is this all MMO's are for you, a way to justify killing time? TOR was never marketed as a 'hardcore' mmo, it was blatantly a multiplayer sequel to KoTOR. Meanwhile there continues to be TONS of traditional time-sinks in the mmo community. Play anything by a korean studio, I guarantee it will be as grindy as you want. Half your post is false or just lies. You can EASILY get to 50 in this game in 10 days without hitting the spacebar once. With close to or maxed crafting. Why would I mention the difficulty when it is WAY too low and not fun? I said everything I wanted to say in the thread opening post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leetlazzy Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Wait.....I'm confused here. So....what's so "hard core" about getting online and grinding out lvls? A) It's not like lvl is hard. B) It's boring as hell. C) End game is what matters. To be honest leveling in general is retarded. They should just throw you into games at max lvl and just say have at it. The whole point of the lvling process is only there to keep people from getting to end game to experience the content so they can keep sucking money out of you for as long as possible. /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evangelist Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Actually the players who rushed to max level made MMOs what they are. Besides there are the Korean grind fest MMOs for your market segment. Personally I have obligations like work, family, etc and can't sit in my parent's basement and "dedicate a portion of my life" to a video game. I like being able to enjoy the game. "You can please some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not please all of the people all of the time." ~ Abe Lincoln (slightly modified) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warkat Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Blizzard paid poster ftl...can't wait for the free month so we dont have to read this crud on the forums 24/7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smartpatrol Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 What did he post that is wrong? It's his opinion and I actually kinda agree. The 'Hardcore' MMO gamer is a dying breed I think and the games out there reflect it. This game is extremely easy to play and that is fine for this fanbase. It just seems that there isn't as much appetite anymore for the hardcore, crazy time-sink MMO anymore. Kinda sad really. I fall into that category; i don't miss the grind or the time sink but i do miss the excitement felt in EQ1 being deep in a dungeon like Guk knowing that if i die i could spend the rest of the night retreiving my corpse. I haven't felt that excitement OH CRAP! feeling in an MMORPG since EQ1. Some people think that it sucks running around naked looking to loot your corpse. Truth is when dieing in a games sucks so bad it forces you to actually play your class, choose your group mates wisely and use a strategy to take down mobs(the mark of a true tank/puller). 90% of the wowers that i have played with in pickup groups in games since then are completely cluess on these three points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanvward Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Totally agree with OP. The kind of mark you make on the game is totally gone, nobody knows who anybody is, because nobody really has to group with anybody if they don't want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aisar Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 Blizzard paid poster ftl...can't wait for the free month so we dont have to read this crud on the forums 24/7. Lol right..do you honestly believe that? Truly, give me a no BS answer. Do you honestly believe I am a Blizzard employee or have anything what so ever do with Blizzard? i dare you to answer truthfully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imtrick Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Blizzard paid poster ftl...can't wait for the free month so we dont have to read this crud on the forums 24/7. You missed his point completely. If Blizzard paid him, they got ripped off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inune Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Meh, I remember the "good ol' days" in UO, and then later in EQ. They weren't good, the games were played by tiny numbers of obsessive, bitter players and it resulted in communities that held new players in a station beneath contempt. No those days are gone for good and the MMO world is far better off for it. Good riddance, the old days sucked. Not to mention the fact that you couldn't admit to anyone in "real life" at work or school that you played an MMO because it automatically branded you a social outcast unless by some miracle you encountered another member of the tiny population playing the game. The time and effort it took to play older MMOs meant the genre would have never gained traction in the broader mainstream, which comes with all sorts of nasty details like never being able to admit you play them, chronically low game budgets, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkfinsix Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Pre-Ren UO player here. I know what you mean dude, our style of mmo is long gone. Killed by blizzard. Actually you meant killed by the consumer right? $$$ talks. Not saying the old games like EQ and UO weren't fun and didn't have a market, EQ1 still has people playing it. But the consumer spoke, and game companies listened. For as much of an EQ1 addict as i was, i am glad I'll never be doing a 8 hour corpse run thru Plane of Fear again, or 3 day long Plane of Sky raids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savagepotato Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I'll tell you what happened. World of Warcraft hit 12 million subs, that's what happened. And the Day that it did, all of a sudden you HAD to have 12 million subs to be considered a success. Old school mmo's were not the big mainstream successes of games like WoW pointedly because you had to devote large portions of your life to them, and not that many people comparatively played them, and even then they still complained endlessly. For every person that laments how awesome star wars galaxies was before the CU, there were ten people that complained and complained and eagerly awaited the CU. I was on the forums in those days and there was plenty of gnashing of teeth about the state of the game from start to finish. Problem was SOE only ever made things worse. These old games had what? 200, 300 thousand players at most, but it was enough. Now if you launch to 200k players you are a dismal failure and crawl away to obscurity. Big money and the mainstream killed the MMO, just as it did the FPS. And everything else that aspired to any kind of depth. Thanks to the bro legions you have a new cut and paste CoD game every 12 months and it's considered awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxen Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 The ones where you actually had to dedicate part of your life to play them well sounds like it needed to die then. imjustsayin we want games, NOT JOBS THAT DON'T PAY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lokai Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 funny i played UO when first came out, was pretty much a hardcore mmo...guess what? was TERRIBLE even back then insane grind, the lack of direction, horrible kill X monster for eternity system was bad... as an old school mmo gamer i can safely say good *********** riddence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
displaynameinuse Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I'm really not too interested in a "WoW is original and SW:TOR is not" argument, or vice versa. That wasn't my point. I realize a lot of this game uses ideas from previous MMOs (though I'd argue it's not so much "WoW with Star Wars paint" as "a classic MMORPG like WoW is"). The constant comparisons to WoW, as if WoW was the only MMO ever, are really tiresome. My point was that Blizzard doesn't innovate. Very few MMO publishers do any more. I think that's partly because WoW showed you could make a ton of money without it. They've also said it would be a casual MMO, which pretty much nixes it as a good choice for anyone looking for what the OP is looking for. I'm really curious what you would consider to be the "new ideas" Blizzard brought to the table, though. I honestly can't think of many things, if any, they did first. They're the Microsoft of game companies... they see something they like in other games and duplicate it. It obviously works for them, but I honestly can't think of anything truly innovative they've ever added to the genre. Off the top of my head: Things that Blizzard innovative in the MMO genre: PVP (take from DAOC) -BGs -Arenas -PvP Gear --Token System Instances/Phasing -Group Raids --Loot/Set items --40/25/10 man raids -Heroic/Hardmode raids --Token system for casual -Phasing system to allow concurrent/world altering events per player Crafting System Mounts and Vanity -Cosmetic Additions including "collection" of mounts -Vanity Pets -Social items (fireworks etc) -Barbershop FlightPaths Spec System And many...many...many other things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terko_Koslah Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I feel swtor is an improvement to the WoWs hack 'n slash questing and the mind set of only end game matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanvward Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Project 1999 - Classic EverQuest I sometimes play this server when I get upset at modern MMOs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sireene Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Hey there! We currently have a few ongoing discussions regarding leveling and this topic, so please feel free to join in here: Leveling to 50 - it's way too fast BioWare - Where is the MMO in MMORPG? Acknowledging the RPG in MMORPG and Concerns Therein Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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