Please do NOT (PvE) buff Sentinels. I'll be sorely disappointed.

[Lomerell]

About Me

 

Level 50 Combat Sentinel. My gear is good but not great (blues and blue mods; just broke 1100 strength). Class quests completed. Haven't PvPed in SWTOR, can't speak to it.

 

I don't have trouble with quest mobs. With Doc, I don't even use Saber Ward. I'm not trying to stroke Epeen here (who cares), I'm just relating my experience.

 

It's supposed to be challenging.

 

Lightsaber combat is simultaneously furious and elegant. A single misstep costs you a limb if not your life. Trying not to injure yourself should be the first step for padawans.

 

You've chosen to wield not one, but two of these deadly weapons. On film, this has been done by just one Jedi: The inimitable Anakin Skywalker, Chosen One himself, and then only briefly (unsuccessfully). He lost. You chose sentinel because you thought you could do better.

 

Very well...can you?

 

2-saber combat should be a fluid series of snap decisions. If you could mash one button (or six) and win, it would be easy. If you could rotate 2-3-4, 2-3-4 it would be boring.

 

If you can master a host of moves all suited to different circumstances, and implement them correctly, you might just master this class.

 

Though I hear "ability bloat" affects all classes, Sentinel feels just as it should. You must respond -- quickly -- to changing circumstances, have a plan but adapt. Use different tactics for weak, normal, strong and elite mobs.

 

You have the tools to cut down 4 normals without most of them landing a hit. Or to stand toe-to-toe with elites. But if you try one set of moves for the other fight, you'll be disappointed.

 

So is it actually that hard?

 

I experienced nothing outright "difficult" in leveling, though I'm an experienced MMOer with quick fingers. (It's my personal bias there should be typing tests before allowing people to raid.)

 

I died occasionally. For some pulls, I died repeatedly. For some planets, I went hours without a setback. I rarely used stims. I occasionally used medpacs.

 

The Chapter 1 boss took me four tries. While it was frustrating at the time, 4 tries is not an outrageous time investment.

 

I confess I brought a group for the final boss; I lack the patience for the LOS-tactics I researched, tactics quite unrelated to normal Sentinel play. (And Knights across the board will admit that fight is tough; both those who powered through it and those like me who chickened out.)

 

I never needed help elsewhere in the game, though. For 50 levels, I soloed everything. Until about level 40, I was using a good portion of my abilities wrong. I'm even more effective now.

 

So how is it too hard? Are you dying every fight? Are you unable to outdps guardians in flashpoints? Or is your experience more or less like mine? Just how much easier should this be than soloing all but the final boss (and some people even managing that)?

 

If you never died, there'd be no challenge whatsoever.

 

But other classes have it easier!

 

I can't confirm/deny since this is my first 50. But if they do, bully for them. Who cares? I play a "harder" class and do well out it; how is this bad for me?

 

I take pride in my performance. If the consensus expects Sentinels to fail (for reasons beyond my understanding), then I only take more pride in doing it well.

 

It's supposed to be hard part II

 

You chose the only advanced class with NO options besides DPSing. You cannot heal or tank ever with this class.

 

If you could sit in the back of the group and pewpew with 1-2 abilities, it would be disgustingly overpowered...not to mention boring.

 

If you can wade into the frey dealing death and destruction with acrobatic aplomb, you might make a name for yourself. But it shouldn't be easy. It should be challenging.

 

I'm not dying enough to complain, despite holding the "underdog" spec for Sentinels. If this class is buffed, I will be disappointed.

 

As for those other classes...

 

Great. I'll get an easymode for my next alt. My reward for playing a class that was so "difficult".

Edited January 9, 2012 by Lomerell

[Anelyn]

Am not sure this has to do with class mechanic as much as with players behind the class. Good players will always succeed and learn the mechanics / rotations, weak and strong points of their class and shine, while more casuals players will take a while to understand them.

 

Yes other classes - ACs are easier to press 2-3 buttons and solo pve content easier.

 

Until Sentinel talent trees don't provide a lower dps output than expected compared to other DPS ACs, I don't see a reason for ANY sentinel build to get buffed. If something is not working as intended, or underperfoming, it should be fixed of course.

[Saetun]

My experience was much the same. But also in parallel I leveled along side a trooper friend of mine and shared in his experiences. As well as I have leveled a sage and trooper myself. Neither he nor I had even half the trouble on our troopers or my sage as I did with my sentinel.

 

Was any of it unsurmountable? Did I die an insane amount of times? Answer to both is no. Like you I maybe died around 4 times on the harder encounters, and I don't consider that necessarily overly too much. But on my sage and trooper and him on his trooper we one shotted everything every time.

 

Now is everything else too easy? Or is sentinel too hard? That all depends on what you want the game to be. I don't care which way it goes, if they nerf everyone else or boost sents it's all the same to me. But I don't want inequality just so I can say I was better because I played the harder class.

 

This is an MMO. For all of us to get the chance to experience all of the content that is available we have to start from a position of relative equality or eventually the community at large will just shun us like they are already starting to.

[Lurkerfox]

this and every other Sentinel thread that gives us sents a good name rather then the scrubs who complain needs to be stickied so people can finally see this class is not broken its not underpowered. Its pretty balanced once you finally figure out how to play it -.-;

[Snowcap]

I think the reason why Sent is so difficult to play as at first is because we don't even get our healing companion until around 35 or 36. After that it's just been a breeze for me to level as a Watchmen

[CorganNW]

OP - Well said and I completely agree with you. Thank you for taking the time to write this and I hope it helps us keep our class as is. I will enjoy playing several classes to 50 but I strongly believe this will always be my favorite.

[Lord_Cypher]

As a level 29 Watchman who just finished the Sand Demon, I've had minimal problems leveling. Sure I have a death here and there and sometimes a mob (or mobs) tickles a little, but overall I would say that the class is fine the way it is. At no point (soloing or flashpoints) have I felt like I'm lagging behind the curve aside from myself learning how the class functions. Keep sents the way that they are and let the whiners go play BH's.

[Flozzin]

My experience was much the same. But also in parallel I leveled along side a trooper friend of mine and shared in his experiences. As well as I have leveled a sage and trooper myself. Neither he nor I had even half the trouble on our troopers or my sage as I did with my sentinel.

 

Was any of it unsurmountable? Did I die an insane amount of times? Answer to both is no. Like you I maybe died around 4 times on the harder encounters, and I don't consider that necessarily overly too much. But on my sage and trooper and him on his trooper we one shotted everything every time.

 

Now is everything else too easy? Or is sentinel too hard? That all depends on what you want the game to be. I don't care which way it goes, if they nerf everyone else or boost sents it's all the same to me. But I don't want inequality just so I can say I was better because I played the harder class.

 

This is an MMO. For all of us to get the chance to experience all of the content that is available we have to start from a position of relative equality or eventually the community at large will just shun us like they are already starting to.

 

 

I'm not in love with my 50 sentinel, I believe we are gimped when you compare us to pretty much any other class.

 

Leveling was a struggle at times mainly with the boss fights. I died a few times before I'd learn their mechanics. As the OP did, I brought someone in for the emperor fight, it just wasn't something I felt like slogging through at the time.

 

But like you said it comes down to, is it a tough fight to 50? Yes. Do I enjoy a challenge? Yes.

 

But why make sentinels the only class to get challenged? I can't help but feel like Bio gave us a huge middle finger at times. Our DPS is close to other classes or completely behind. Then add in the fact that we are melee, so we struggle on bosses that move alot, take for instance Hut Hospitality fight. Or bosses we have to run from, and our DPS takes a massive nose dive. You can't give equal DPS to a class that has to run out of boss fights to avoid mechanics and expect people to play it. Our DPS needs to be higher so when we run out of those fights, it makes up for the fact that we are doing 0 damage, unless you want to act like blade storm is a godlike ranged ability.

[fatherjimbo]

I'll throw in my lowbie experience here. I am an admitted altaholic so I can tell you my experience thus far.

 

I have played 4 characters so far past the first boss. Gunslinger, Bounty Hunter (merc), Shadow, and (my favorite) Sentinal.

 

I have played all of these characters the same, meaning I take my time, do all the side quests I find, explore for lore and datacrons, etc.

 

The only boss battle I died on was with my Gunslinger, and I died several times. The Bounty Hunter was the easiest. The Shadow and Sentinal seemed pretty close as far as difficulty. I was low health when it was over but I lived.

 

I find the Sentinal the most fun. It's easier for me to adapt to the situation like the OP was saying. The only thing I wish for is some kind of way to increase my movement speed in combat. I don't want it all the time but when my force leap is on cool down it seems like it takes forever for me to move to a new target that is at any distance.

 

So, there you go - a lowbie's opinion.

[AnthonyLeo]

I really enjoy playing my sentinel. The difficulty makes me feel more accomplished when completing a hard mission compared to my commando trooper which I just 3 button spam and walk right through it.

 

That being said, I feel we are slightly gimped and could use a minor buff. Like I wouldn't mind a buff in the damage output of our offhand saber to around 50% of our main (only getting maybe 30% atm, even though I have the offhand saber skill maxed and my offhand saber is upgraded better than my main) and some sort of push or another CC.

[Lord_Cypher]

 

I find the Sentinal the most fun. It's easier for me to adapt to the situation like the OP was saying. The only thing I wish for is some kind of way to increase my movement speed in combat. I don't want it all the time but when my force leap is on cool down it seems like it takes forever for me to move to a new target that is at any distance.

 

So, there you go - a lowbie's opinion.

 

http://www.torhead.com/ability/ddRaFkI/transcendence

[RamzaBehoulve]

Am not sure this has to do with class mechanic as much as with players behind the class. Good players will always succeed and learn the mechanics / rotations, weak and strong points of their class and shine, while more casuals players will take a while to understand them.

 

Some casual gamers take the time to learn, some others don't. Unfortunately, the ones who don't are some of the big mouths on this forum. They literally suck beyond comprehension and refuse to admit it despite multiple people taking the time to explain it calmly.

 

Biggest offender : they don't know what Force Kick is and what it does despite being one, if not THE most important JK story skill to use and just keep complaining Valis and Angral are monsters and the Sentinel class is broken/underpowered.

Edited January 9, 2012 by RamzaBehoulve

[SirZie]

I have had fun playing my sentinel, but i just don't like that if a interrupt doesn't go off its pretty much game over (talking about boss fights). If anything frustrates me most about my playthrough so far, is that a kick not going off when you hit it sucks. I've died too much because of this.

[fatherjimbo]

http://www.torhead.com/ability/ddRaFkI/transcendence

 

Awesome! Then I am completely happy

[Lomerell]

I have had fun playing my sentinel, but i just don't like that if a interrupt doesn't go off its pretty much game over (talking about boss fights). If anything frustrates me most about my playthrough so far, is that a kick not going off when you hit it sucks. I've died too much because of this.

 

Since you've died, you must mean that kick didn't actually happen.

 

I've had kick interrupt even if the animation didn't occur between other GCD spam, though; Combat is fast/furious. (I miss the animation for Riposte probably 99% of the time.) So I'm completely happy with Kick.

 

Remember that a few abilities are uninterruptable (even on Strongs) and that you have a second option: Force Stasis.

 

I cannot tell whether Awe "interrupts" or just stops action-following-the-present-action.

[GenDisarray]

I have had fun playing my sentinel, but i just don't like that if a interrupt doesn't go off its pretty much game over (talking about boss fights). If anything frustrates me most about my playthrough so far, is that a kick not going off when you hit it sucks. I've died too much because of this.

 

This is a big one, most fights that involve interrupts are fairly simple as long as the interrupt goes off. I know I have missed one or two which can result in a death, but bosses that cast more are typically easier.

 

The game is most difficult for me when dealing with hard-hitting enemies that do not need to cast, I have to either camo them off, burn cooldowns or both. I could probably blame myself for not using my tanking companion much, as he is very undergeared.

[Lomerell]

This is a big one, most fights that involve interrupts are fairly simple as long as the interrupt goes off. I know I have missed one or two which can result in a death, but bosses that cast more are typically easier.

 

The game is most difficult for me when dealing with hard-hitting enemies that do not need to cast, I have to either camo them off, burn cooldowns or both. I could probably blame myself for not using my tanking companion much, as he is very undergeared.

 

Same. Spellcasters get roflstomped, it's the meleers which are trouble...nothing to interrupt.

 

I'm gradually gearing Scourge and Rusk just to try someone other than Doc.

[thanealpha]

I don't fully disagree with the OP...however here's the points I think he is glossing over.

 

1> He is willing to accept multiple deaths as just part of gameplay. Other players see that as failure. And in my experience other classes die less...

 

2> He was willing to accept help in the final boss fight of our KEY class quest moment. Other players see the class quest line as the pinacle of solo play.

 

3> The OP exclusively uses one companion. Doc. Many players want to feel able and capable without using that one companion choice. Much of our storyline revolves around Kira and I think many people see it as problematic that Kira is not only sub-optimal, but often a massive hindrence to our ability to fight relative to Doc.

 

 

And finally:

 

4> Relative power MATTERS in PvP....the OP ignores PvP entirely. I agree that PvE is ALWAYS easy, no matter what build/spec/class you choose the end result is PvE has to be easy to appeal to the masses. This is the new norm of MMOs.

 

But this is not exclusively a PvE game. PvP is a HUGE part of a lot of players gameplay. (How you got to 50 without PvP is beyond me)

 

I too am L50 Combat spec. And I can say with all honesty and certainty Sents are definitely behind the power curve in a lot of ways in PvP. Our max dps numbers are fixed at well below what many hybrid classes can deliver, we have NO means of gaining the hybrid medals, guard etc..., and in general we have less functional CC relative to other classes.

 

Not to mention the biggest issue, we have a build UP mechanic in focus not a spend down mechanic like other templates. This can be a huge detriment to burst ability in a PvP environment.

 

Anyhow I agree PvE is easy...and will always be so. But PvE is also limited get to 50 and you're pretty much done with personal challenges, only group mechanics matter after that.

 

PvP is where the class will live post 50 and where some analysis needs to be done. And if that comes at the expense of making PvE easier then I have no issue at all with that.

[Acurso]

I haven't had any of the difficulties and I'm not that good of a player. I just make sure my gear and powers are current and have the right rotation. Everything has been a breeze. I do have to say that I have done all tank specs prior to this so finding ways to survive in battle comes a little easier for me because of my past experiences. Just take the time to learn what to use and when and you'll be crushing bosses after 2-3 rotations and mobs in less than 1. The main thing tanking taught me was to keep all of your gear and powers current and it's paramount with a sentinel so you can end the fights quickly so you don't have to take the damage.

[Sobius]

I don't fully disagree with the OP...however here's the points I think he is glossing over.

 

But this is not exclusively a PvE game. PvP is a HUGE part of a lot of players gameplay. (How you got to 50 without PvP is beyond me)

....

Anyhow I agree PvE is easy...and will always be so. But PvE is also limited get to 50 and you're pretty much done with personal challenges, only group mechanics matter after that.

....

PvP is where the class will live post 50 and where some analysis needs to be done. And if that comes at the expense of making PvE easier then I have no issue at all with that.

 

While I respect your opinion, that you feel PvP is the end all and be all of MMO's, and also agree that PVE is not terribly challenging (especially in endgame wasteland that is TOR), I think you are giving PvP too much credit and PvE not enough credit. Regardless of how good you are individually in PvP, your group dynamics matter just as much as any endgame PvE raid. You may be the best level 50 Sentinel on your server, but if your team is a disaster, and the opponents team is a carefully built, PvP hardened group, I doubt your match will go in your teams' favor.

 

PvE and PvP are equally about personal challenge as much as they are about group dynamics in my opinion. And personally, I played this MMO to play with other people towards a common goal, but as I stated earlier I respect that some people would rather play *against* other people and get equal enjoyment out of it. I do believe however, that you can't compare PvP to PvE in terms of our performance as Sentinels (or any class for that matter).

 

One thing I will comment on; I don't believe we get as much damage as we should as Sentinels, relative to our close position to the target. Melee DPS should always have an advantage over ranged DPS simply because we are exposed to more AoE's (frequent in endgame of any MMO). Ranged have an advantage in that, if they pull hate they have more time than we do to drop threat. Usually we don't know we have grabbed hate until we are being pounded. I'm not advocating an enormous increase, I just think Sentinels (any melee DPS in fact) should have a slight edge over ranged DPS because we are exposed to more potential damage.

[Cleet_Xia]

6 month old necro thread wants to eat your brain.

[AidanLightwalker]

I bet the last quest challenge, solo, no group, and that was before they nerfed it. Did I mention I also did it without using HM FP gear while being the orginal combat spec before combat/carnage got tweaked?? This class shines in the right hands.

[Stealios]

I bet the last quest challenge, solo, no group, and that was before they nerfed it. Did I mention I also did it without using HM FP gear while being the orginal combat spec before combat/carnage got tweaked?? This class shines in the right hands.

 

Just let the thread die man. It's had a good life. Now it's time to let go

[Sobius]

Mia Culpa

 

I thought it was a post-1.3 thread. That's what I get for not checking thoroughly.

 

Sorry!