Noth Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 And our damage isn't consistent? All of those skills can be used on rotation without much need for rage generation whatsoever. As consistent as 3.5k, 3.5k, 3.5, 4k, 3.5... no it is not that consistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorkvid Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 So all other classes were killing the same mob at a different time solo? Unless they were you cannot say your dps was better. If you read my post, I said that each person had to fight a different mob completely 1v1. Some had 36k health, some had 78k (or around there, not sure on the number). But each person in the raid had to take out one mob completely by themselves. I'd be a little wary about taking solid dps for the people killing those mobs with 36k health as you could go through one or two rotations blowing big cooldowns (such as ravage, force choke, etc if you were a warrior) and be unaffected by their long cooldowns. However doing 100k+ damage is more consistent and a slightly better indicator of actual single target dps over a period of time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickedwood Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 whats so good about doing almost 50% less dps than another class i have several bh friends and several jugg dps friends and none of the juggs can even come close to the bh dps on a same level basis. and jugg tanking is laughable compared to other classes we need a rework a buff or something anything it def needs to be changed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorkvid Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 whats so good about doing almost 50% less dps than another class i have several bh friends and several jugg dps friends and none of the juggs can even come close to the bh dps on a same level basis. and jugg tanking is laughable compared to other classes we need a rework a buff or something anything it def needs to be changed Please cite your sources and give me actual numbers. Your opinion is worthless without them. Now, let's do a little fun math here. Say your bounty hunter friends don't have a heat mechanic anymore and instead they just sit there and spam tracer missile for the entire duration of the fight, doing an average (yes AVERAGE, since they won't crit every single time) of 3k every GCD. This comes out to, you guessed it, 2000 dps. Now while astoundingly high, this number is only 1.6x the recorded DPS I have done. If they could pull off 2.5k dps for an extended period of time, I promise I will make a post in this forum saying you were right and I was wrong. Keep me to my word Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobaFurz Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) So all other classes were killing the same mob at a different time solo? Unless they were you cannot say your dps was better. I pvp in rage. and it's hilarious because every other class wears me down faster than I wear them down till the 4k smash I drop on their head. It's rare for scream to hit for 3k, normally it hits for 2.5k. Viscous slash hits for maybe 1.5-1.7k with charge and oblit. This is in near full champ gear. Yes they can hit hard if you pop adrenals and/or are hitting player with no expertise, but that is not always the case and other classes will hit harder in those cases. Ever seen the scoundrel that flat out evaporates half of peoples health at will? Or that sniper that drops a string of 4k, 4k, 3k, crits on 8% expertise? No juggernaut can do that. And no we don't hit more often nor do those other classes run out of energy from thsoe opening volleys (well assassin often do). What lvl are you ? Iam almost lvl 12 and didnt still decide what should I choose. Juggernaut or Maurader. The thing is, in another thread here lvl 50ies said they feel like godmode and Juggenaut is such an awesome class at 50. Other say the class just sucks...whats right here ? I did post a maurader video lvl 50 and hes doing (probably with buffs) 6.5k crits and 15k AOE ...I still cant decide what advanced class I should choose since I read so many different statesments. I have not seen any pvp videos so far of a geared lvl 50 in pvp about his dmg output from the released game. Edited January 9, 2012 by BobaFurz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kolbenito Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Please cite your sources and give me actual numbers. Your opinion is worthless without them. Now, let's do a little fun math here. Say your bounty hunter friends don't have a heat mechanic anymore and instead they just sit there and spam tracer missile for the entire duration of the fight, doing an average (yes AVERAGE, since they won't crit every single time) of 3k every GCD. This comes out to, you guessed it, 2000 dps. Now while astoundingly high, this number is only 1.6x the recorded DPS I have done. If they could pull off 2.5k dps for an extended period of time, I promise I will make a post in this forum saying you were right and I was wrong. Keep me to my word The problem is you are talking about one encounter, in which everyone has to 1v1 a mob, with a 2 minute enrage timer. I haven't done the encounter, I assume by everyone you are saying that healers and tanks also need to complete the 1v1 in under 120 seconds. You aslo state that the mobs have different health pools. This information completely ignores that it's obviously a mechanic of the fight and something your ops group is "supposed" to be able to do. This mob is clearly tweaked for this encounter since it doesn't just straight up kill you with damage or have something that needs to be interrupted etc. Comparing 1.2K dps to 1.6 or even 2K only emphasizes the point that Juggs are doing less damage. Even 1.2K vs. 1.6K is a decent gap when you are talking the first tier of content in what we can assume is good gear. More to the point if you feel like **** and are pulling off okay damage that is different than having fun and pulling okay numbers. This is what the actual complaint in most Jugg QQ threads actually is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chocodaddy Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 didn't think the jug was supposed to blast things into powder in 1-2 atks... tank class has high hp and defense for a reason you know? its not just a freaking tank class people get that through your head. with this type of logic lets nerf assasins cause the have a tanking tree, sorcs cause they can heal. and mercs cause they can do both. stop being freaking stupid. and if you honestly think that wearing heavy armor makes up for anything at all your kidding yourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snuff Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 What lvl are you ? Iam almost lvl 12 and didnt still decide what should I choose. Juggernaut or Maurader. The thing is, in another thread here lvl 50ies said they feel like godmode and Juggenaut is such an awesome class at 50. Other say the class just sucks...whats right here ? I did post a maurader video lvl 50 and hes doing (probably with buffs) 6.5k crits and 15k AOE ...I still cant decide what advanced class I should choose since I read so many different statesments. I have not seen any pvp videos so far of a geared lvl 50 in pvp about his dmg output from the released game. The reason you don't see a lot of jugg videos is that there is nothig to see. We kinda suck s who wants to record a video of them sucking? Rage can get some heavy DPS, you have to get 4 charges of shockwave, use obliterate, and then SMASH a target and at that piont you can get 3k+ crit. Needless to say you need a lot of rage, time, and good circumstance to pull this off. More so considering lag and how screwed up smash aoe is right now. SMASH is not instant, so lets say your are chasing a target and in range, you hit smash while running... Target thakes no damage but the poor smuch standing back where you STARTED the animation gets hit whiel all the targets around you do not. Immortal spec needs a small dps boost. It is expected that immortal not have a lot of DPS however it needs to be better then it is right now. Bascially put, both our DPS trees suck. Fix our dps tree and juggs will be happy. Fix our dps tree and give us a tad more dps in our immortal tree and juggs will be thrilled. This is a hard class to play, you have ungodly amounts of skills on cooldowns with rage management mechanic, while trying to stay in range. I wouldn't cry if they filled in some of the gaps for jugs (rage generation). I wouldn't hurt my feelings if pummel strike and kick were combined and the cooled cut in half isntead of me having TWO skills depending if the target is slowed or stunned. I mean a CC lasts about 2-6 seconds, in that time I have to notice he is CC'ed figure out if he is incapacitated or immobilized, I have to see if the skill is up, I have to check to see if I have rage and THEN I can use it.. yeah... macro city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiLiZ Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Must admit that Im having fun in pve on my Juggernaut. But the difference between him and my Mercenary is so big that its not even funny. Just started the game and atm lvl 15 on 2 chars, trying out both the merc and the juggernaut. In pve the Merc kills off groups of 4-6 standard mobs in 3-4 seconds, maybe loosing 100 hp. The Juggernaut looses about half it's hp from the exact same group of mobs (all armor rating 40 and Vengence spec now). Having the same hp, same armor and taking twice as long to kill something. No wonder he take lots of hits in a fight. And in group play, as a tank, I got no real aggro/hate skills that I can use. The first party member who do some crits will steal aggro immediately (now switched to immortal and using that tanking form). In pvp its even worse. Huttball as a lvl 15 just to try it out for fun. Since Im here pretty much for the pvp part. Merc - 128 000 dmg. Can cc, heal, dd, pretty much anything. Juggernaut - 26 000 dmg. Can pretty much be killed in an instant or ignored completely since he's not doing anything. Yepp Im only lvl 15 and yes yes Im sure it will change as a reach lvl bla bla bla. But that big of a difference? Really? And the pvp itself. Upscaled stats and all lvls in the same arena? That was a big dissappointment. Hmm Your problem is you are level 15. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorizdin Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Your problem is you are level 15. Truth! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omninull Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 Truth! Too bad the experience doesn't change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noth Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 What lvl are you ? Iam almost lvl 12 and didnt still decide what should I choose. Juggernaut or Maurader. The thing is, in another thread here lvl 50ies said they feel like godmode and Juggenaut is such an awesome class at 50. Other say the class just sucks...whats right here ? I did post a maurader video lvl 50 and hes doing (probably with buffs) 6.5k crits and 15k AOE ...I still cant decide what advanced class I should choose since I read so many different statesments. I have not seen any pvp videos so far of a geared lvl 50 in pvp about his dmg output from the released game. That video is of a geared marauder with a smash build. with all buffs you'd do 6.5k with a smash and with some good luck maybe 4k with a scream crit. Other classes can do teh same thing more often with less setup requirements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixiooo Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) I agree. Got my Juggernaut to 50, but on my journey to 50 I saw lots of other classes going through mobs a lot faster then I did with my vengeance specced Juggernaut. Yes, my gear was on par with my level. Juggernaut DPS certainly needs a buff. Don't even get me started on PvP. Besides the rage tree, and the one-hit wonder that is called Smash, the class feels absurdly mediocre. Go play a Juggernaut in PvP. Then proceed to play an Imperial Agent, Inquisitor or Bounty Hunter. The difference is laughable. Edited January 10, 2012 by Fixiooo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadspectre Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I agree. Got my Juggernaut to 50, but on my journey to 50 I saw lots of other classes going through mobs a lot faster then I did with my vengeance specced Juggernaut. Yes, my gear was on par with my level. Juggernaut DPS certainly needs a buff. Don't even get me started on PvP. Besides the rage tree, and the one-hit wonder that is called Smash, the class feels absurdly mediocre. Go play a Juggernaut in PvP. Then proceed to play an Imperial Agent, Inquisitor or Bounty Hunter. The difference is laughable. I only got a BH to level 4 and could already tell this was going to be too stupidly easy. Spam so much damage ON THE MOVE AT RANGE with just those noob skills I shudder to think what happens when I get everything. Then people are like "yeah but you have to manage heat *mopey french whine noise* and to that I say try being Vengeance in PvP and trying to build rage outside of using saber throw, leap or berserk. Then try and use your top tree talent when you keep getting your Sundering Strike parried, oh wait you can't because you need to have a stupid debuff on. I love my Jugg, I do "ok" with him despite lacking most gear. But I'll be damned if I had rolled a BH I'd be pulling numbers out of my *** like candy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonoftw Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 From what I have seen whacking on Heroic world bosses with 0 mechanics and timing myself and some guildies. Juggs in vengence and rage spec do roughly around the same dps. Bounty hunters get over heated fairly fast if they are unlucky with crits and procs, but on a good day they do a little bit more then juggs equally geared.. and maurauders do a bit more then them.. Jugg dps is fine as you can tank HM FPs and even raids as a dps specced jugg, wearing dps gear and still do fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glyceriine Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Depends on what tree. Juggerauts are not just tanks you know. Dam right we aren't Im a full champion geared Jugg Rage spec I get 5800-6000+ crits all the time. I am hitting as hard as snipers are at this point. The thing with rage tree though is timing you can't just smash your face against the key board and expect to do great damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonoftw Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Dam right we aren't Im a full champion geared Jugg Rage spec I get 5800-6000+ crits all the time. I am hitting as hard as snipers are at this point. The thing with rage tree though is timing you can't just smash your face against the key board and expect to do great damage. ^^ This.. You have to plan what you want to kill. Build up your stacks then charge in and smash. More then likely you will have killed 1-2 low health people and crippled the rest, Rinse and repeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noth Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Dam right we aren't Im a full champion geared Jugg Rage spec I get 5800-6000+ crits all the time. I am hitting as hard as snipers are at this point. The thing with rage tree though is timing you can't just smash your face against the key board and expect to do great damage. Only when you have stims and the pick up expertise buff. I'm running in full champ except for 1 piece and without those I get no where near that amount unless the person is sub 50 with no expertise and low armor. Snipers can do that output without the stims and expertise buff, without the setup for it. Same with scoundrels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tholdrin Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 100% crit chance for 3500 (low gear lvl) to almost 6k on 5 targets every 12s? Yes please... Also, juggernauts are BEASTS in pvp - in BGs i go over 600k dmg done almost every single match and onlt equaly geared commando/mercenary can beat us 1v1. You dont like? Go reroll, i for one wont miss you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thankyjack Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 The Juggernaut doesn't use a lightsaber, but a giant foam pool noodle beating people repeatedly over until they somehow fall over and give up from the sheer absurdity of this class's impotence. Juggernauts must be a part of some cosmic joke everyone else in the galaxy is in on. Seems only fair since their abilities hit us like a wet noodle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thankyjack Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Must admit that Im having fun in pve on my Juggernaut. But the difference between him and my Mercenary is so big that its not even funny. Just started the game and atm lvl 15 on 2 chars, trying out both the merc and the juggernaut. In pve the Merc kills off groups of 4-6 standard mobs in 3-4 seconds, maybe loosing 100 hp. The Juggernaut looses about half it's hp from the exact same group of mobs (all armor rating 40 and Vengence spec now). Having the same hp, same armor and taking twice as long to kill something. No wonder he take lots of hits in a fight. And in group play, as a tank, I got no real aggro/hate skills that I can use. The first party member who do some crits will steal aggro immediately (now switched to immortal and using that tanking form). In pvp its even worse. Huttball as a lvl 15 just to try it out for fun. Since Im here pretty much for the pvp part. Merc - 128 000 dmg. Can cc, heal, dd, pretty much anything. Juggernaut - 26 000 dmg. Can pretty much be killed in an instant or ignored completely since he's not doing anything. Yepp Im only lvl 15 and yes yes Im sure it will change as a reach lvl bla bla bla. But that big of a difference? Really? And the pvp itself. Upscaled stats and all lvls in the same arena? That was a big dissappointment. Hmm This has not been my experience, but I have talented smash to do as much damage as possible. I fly in, smash once and clean up what's left. I kill faster and take less damage than my BH at the same level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorkvid Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 100% crit chance for 3500 (low gear lvl) to almost 6k on 5 targets every 12s? Yes please... Also, juggernauts are BEASTS in pvp - in BGs i go over 600k dmg done almost every single match and onlt equaly geared commando/mercenary can beat us 1v1. You dont like? Go reroll, i for one wont miss you Just curious, can you post any screenshots / vids of the 600k damage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorstog Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 too bad the experience doesn't change. truth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorstog Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Just curious, can you post any screenshots / vids of the 600k damage? You are not the only one. 500+ matches in PVP and i've not seen a single person break 400k. Numbers, bottoms and a mighty pull I guess? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorkvid Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 You are not the only one. 500+ matches in PVP and i've not seen a single person break 400k. Numbers, bottoms and a mighty pull I guess? I've seen people break 400k, even 500k. Most I ever saw in a fair (as in, we didn't sit around and let someone farm damage and have pocket heals) was 550k but that was from a sorc spamming lightning the whole time in huttball with no deaths. 600k as a juggernaut consistently is an outright lie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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