assault is maybe bad for commando. but as vanguard well it doesn't really need to be stated. assault spec has some of the highest burst in the game, if you think otherwise you either don't know how to play it or simply just trolling. the ability to drop someone from full to half hp or less then a few globals and to do it at range is not what i would call lack of real burst. assault has some ammo management problems but really man you honestly sound like you have no idea what you are talking about

OPF. your attempting to prove a point that the vast majority of the vanguard community has come to disagree with. while tatics burst may be the same as Assault, it takes substantially more time to set up then AS (5 globals) making it inferior in MOST but not all pvp situations. unless your walking around with 5 stacks of pulse generator at all times it just takes longer to "drop the hammer" so to speak. not to mention your bread and butter ability requires you to be stationary sacrificing vanguards most powerful pvp trait, its mobile burst. no one is arguing that tactics can pull the same numbers, people are arguing that you can not pull the same numbers as effectively. further more your serves population of tactics vanguards is irrelevant to this discussion, simply because it shows a matter of peoples own personal preference. the reason why you see a flood of tactics vanguards if people want to try the changes for themselves. and as you stated most return to there original specs.

ok back to the original question can tatics hold its own against AS in pvp. 1) spreadsheets and dummy tests mean absolutely nothing in pvp, they never have. I should not have to explain why. and throwing random numbers and percentages out there without the bases to back them up makes you seem like an idiot. 2) if i go by what other posts have been made. then one would assume that AS has higher mobility, much faster burst set up time, and some decent burst from range, but with some slight heat/ammo problems. while tactics has lesser mobility, due to its bread and butter ability requiring you to be stationary, (which also stands a chance of being interrupted), a longer burst set up time and little to no burst from range. but when the burst is set up its equals out to the same as AS. as well as having somewhat better sustained damage for the people that run with high energy cell talented. honestly with the information we know, not ******** parse logs/ spreadsheets/ percentages on dummies/ test mobs that people some how always have laying about to randomly pull out there *** when arguments likes this show up, based on what we know it would seem to me that, that while tatics can bring something to the table, it doesn't bring quite as much As Assault . can tactics be successful, yes. is it the Powerhouse that warranted massive QQ like assault spec no.

if he has all his cool downs its a pretty hard fight. try dropping stealth scan before he re cloaks, will force him to keep fighting or move out of the area buying you some time and space. i usually try to break the first knockdown,cryonade him get dots and and assault plastique on him. with that and a good HIB hits should kinda turn the tables. if he re stealths its pretty much game over so stealth scan and dots are key.

by laughable damage i was referring to the people who run shield specs, talking about there survivability when there damage is some what lack luster. im sure tactics can put out good numbers, can it do it as quickly and as fluidly as assault spec, no, but it can put out damage.

as burst is pretty much the same as it was in 1.2. i honestly dont really notice the difference in the 6 second delay. and your 50% armor increase will help you with a handful of people whose damage is only kinetic. and i honestly dont know where to begin with your comments about burst being overrated. you can have all the sustained dps you want. just don't expect to kill anyone being healed or even put pressure on a decent healer., or hell even win your 1v1 or 1v2 battles that happen all the time in WZs. ion cell is not your saving grace your wont survive a second longer then AS without a healer. and your damage is laughable.

thank you so very, very much. i could not have said it better myself

the thing is, is that 2.2k ticks on a channeled spell is not burst. its way to easy to interrupt with a well times stun or simply move out of. then for its full effect you have to set up the 5 stacks of the buff so even more so this burst you speak of requires way more set up then AS does. is it strong yes. but its far far to situational to be considered a burst ability. the tactics tree is sloppy, lacking any real synergy to make it useable over AS. when ranked WZs begin i think more and more people will realize this.

you must be a noob to pvp so let me explain. having a delay on assault plastiqe actually makes it better because you can line up its detonation with your HIB>stockstrike>HiB. combo. instead of the damage coming in streams like tactics. the damage all comes at once. the only ability thats worth a damn that hits harder in Tactics spec is ion pulse and stock strike and not by much..honestly there is no point in arguing cause most vanguards still agree that AS is still superior to tactics.

tatics burst isnt even on the radar compared to AS. b. fire blast doesn't hold a candle to assault plastiqe . HIB has up to 90% armor pen when you spec in to AS not to mention the procs on hib. they are far from the the same. and counting pulse cannon as burst is simply foolish. not 2 mention 2 dots that tic for very good damage along with the increase damage below 30% health.

honestly while the tactics tree is still viable , it doesn't hold a candle to the burst damage that AS has,or the survivability of shield spec. and burst damage is pretty much the only damage that matters in pvp. unless your gonna be running the huttball, tactics is still subpar to both other specs as far as pvp is concerned. and even with running the huttball there are classes that are way better at it then trooper. so if you want to play a spec that really has no position in pvp id stick with something else.

yes, yes, minions continue to focus on commando while we vanguards rolfstomp over people in war zones. yanking into the fire in 3,2,1......

honestly people are blow the numbers way outta proportion. the nerfs are just a tone down to and i win button. the burst damage was ridiculous. period. and honestly since they have been monitoring the damage of classes since the game came out, one can only guess that even after the brackets were separated they found that concealment damage was still to high even when striking geared lvl 50s. all this into the ground stuff is just silly. people sound like ret pallies after the pre wotlk patch, trying to justify insanely silly numbers. and yes i agree that bh and sorc are a little to strong as well but at least i can see them coming and attempt to do something about it

its not just a freaking tank class people get that through your head. with this type of logic lets nerf assasins cause the have a tanking tree, sorcs cause they can heal. and mercs cause they can do both. stop being freaking stupid. and if you honestly think that wearing heavy armor makes up for anything at all your kidding yourselves.

juggernaut at least in my eyes lacks the power that one should want from playing a sith warrior class. its and in your a face, you better get me the hell off you or im going to kill you type class. sadly it cant be played that way simply be cause it lacks the hard hitting abilities and mobility. between chain cc, stuns, and knock backs it makes getting to the target and having any kind of up time on it is almost impossible. and even when you do get to the target you might as well be hitting him with a pool noodle. even more so the fact that my hardest hitting abilities have nothing to do with my light sabre and/or cant even be used in pvp baffles me.