Killed in 3 hits WHILE STUNNED

[Lashkor]

Scrapper vs. Tank = Dead Scrapper

 

 

Balance takes on two forms.

One = Rock/Paper/Scissors

Two = Group Makeup

 

 

Scoundrels/Operatives = great 1v1

Scoundrels/Operatives = doesn't contribute much to groups

 

 

EVERY CLASS CAN DO THE SAME DAMAGE!!! There is proof out there of all classes doing that much damage and most of them don't require the same setup that Scoundrels/Ops do.

 

Because killing someone outright is BAD in a team fight AMIRITE!?

 

You sir, are a moron.

 

Instead of trying to PvP in SWToR you should go play League of Legends, maybe then you'll understand the role of certain things in team fights. At the very least, it'll be easier for you to understand.

[Libertine]

You power tech's take the damage then laugth it off and heal yourself,i know and trust me in the last week i have fought tons of you guys and you guys win more than 70% of the time,hmm maybe you will be the next op class that will be targeted.

 

so mr. smartguy ... tell me again how a powertech can heal himself ... you know, what with only having once self-HoT on a 2min CD that only restores are marginal amount of health ... ?

 

personally, as a shieldtech, i laugh at scoundrels in 1v1 but still, you, sir, have no idea about powertechs ...

[wtb_skillz]

Not in cover, likely no gear. Nothing to see here, what you describe cannot happen to a lvl 50 in full pvp gear.

 

You're right not in 3 hits in 5-6 instead. I have 511 Expertise and im pretty much totally dead vs Operatives after an opener. They just reset and finish me off if I am not 100% dead, they hit like trucks I can only imagine vs undergeared.

 

As poster above me said when I was in shieldtech spech I laughed too but I went DPS recently. Also I dont sweat it impossible to balance games for 1v1.

Edited January 9, 2012 by wtb_skillz

[ckoneful]

Scrapper vs. Tank = Dead Scrapper

 

 

Balance takes on two forms.

One = Rock/Paper/Scissors

Two = Group Makeup

 

 

Scoundrels/Operatives = great 1v1

Scoundrels/Operatives = doesn't contribute much to groups

 

 

EVERY CLASS CAN DO THE SAME DAMAGE!!! There is proof out there of all classes doing that much damage and most of them don't require the same setup that Scoundrels/Ops do.

 

Actually, no. I'm a tank sitting on 18.6k HP unbuffed with 24% defense, 53% shield, 42% absorption(Always have kinetic ward up) and a certain Operative on my realm can still take me down to 20% inside the stun, I get one move off outside of it and I'm dead.(Also, this is with Pvp Impants/pants/belt/boots/shield focus, so I'm not entirely lacking expertise.

[Ciry]

Allow me to add something here here .....

 

Stealth with no time use or mana/force/energy penalty, that can be used in combat and is instant thus not interuptable.

 

And after the initial knock down the spamable use of a single ability that does insane damage and to my opinion that can not be considered burst , i understand burst damage what comes out of a combination of abilities.

 

Not to mention that after the knock down the standing up animation (which does not allow any kind of movement) alone gives an extra 3 second advantage.

 

I was just trying to cover the basics, but yeah, I hear ya.

 

A warzone with one smugg/op is bad enough, you might as well just sit down when they have 2+.

 

I enjoy playing my merc but after watching the peppercorn video I gotta say, op looks like a lot more fun for the obvious reason.

 

/Ponder over the possibility of getting a lvl 50 op before a nerf bat happens.

[GrinNfool]

This is true to an extent, any class with a relic + adrenal + PvP buff + PvP expertise stim popped CAN demolish anyone but it's a completely different beast when your opener is also from stealth and knocks someone down for 3 seconds. That's the biggest concern here the CC paired with incredible damage paired with not knowing it's happening. If you see a Sniper casting an ambush on you, you just walk behind a wall.

 

The knockdown also triggers a full resolve bar. Dirty kick doesn't and is a better stun. The biggest issue here is biochem being broken, and buff stacking. Without abusing those 2 mechanics the damage isn't that great. Commandos/Mercs do the same darn thing when hitting those buffs only they can do it consistently not only when opening. That plus the majority of people complaining are sub 50 or new 50s with out pvp gear. The 4.3k (this is expertise gear vs expertise gear) front load from the initial hit isn't that much when people have 15k-19k health. A nerf before gear equalizes will just make the classes worthless later on when gear has been equalized. The damage they do is already worse than a sniper/gun or commando/merc. If you want to get rid of the knock down I couldn't care less personally I hate that it gives my enemy a full resolve bar when I have 2 other stuns. Take away the knockdown please, then I can stun you twice and for longer.

 

Once again we have a class that triggers loss of control creating mass whining from sub 50s and undergeared 50s, when fighting a very geared 50. I stress again caving to the whining now will create a much larger balance issue later when people are geared and realize scoundrel/op are relatively balanced. I'd advocate a slight nerf to damage but not much, not the gutting that people seem to want.

[ReynoldsCK]

I have around the same stats and gear as ckoneful, and an Imperial Operative can do the same damage to me. The only way for me to survive is to quickly activate my anti stun, and blow through every defensive cooldown I have. Hopefully after watching some of these videos, the developers will realize that we are not lying. There needs to be some balance changes here. I'm all for burst damage classes like rogues in WoW, but this needs some tweaking....whether it be damage, expertise, etc....not asking for the class to be nerfed to the point of being useless, but something needs tweaking. Edited January 9, 2012 by ReynoldsCK

[Vant]

Again NO they can not period ! Plis stop lying to cover up for developers that cant create game balance. As a lvl 50 commando in PvP gear valor rank son 60 i do have a clue.

As a PvP vetaren like so many others here we actually know what we are talking about.

Video speaks for it self as it does ingame every minute. The BioWare devs knows this , they have all the damage stats on their systems but they will never realease that info because it would only prove what a bad job they have done in TOR when it comes to these classes.

 

And as players are saying ingame, if they cant fix this issue alot of people

will unsub period. And belive me, that will hurs EA far more then a few happy

players who can remain OP with a sub in the long run.

 

If this were the case, then WoW would have failed, because Rogues have been Stun Locking for years now.

 

Stealth and Burst classes have been the same for ages, the top PvP games that had stealth out there all had the same issues, stealth classes were great 1v1, DAoC, WoW, all the same. If you engage in a fight 1v1 vs. a Scoundrel Scrapper or an Operative Assassin, you are likely going to lose.

 

You are a Commando. What spec are you? Are you Combat Medic, are you Gunnery, what? If you had gone Vanguard, you would destroy Scrappers in your tank spec 1v1.

 

I've said this many times before.

 

Burst>Healer>Tank>Burst

 

This is called ROCK/PAPER/SCISSORS and it is how games and especially MMOs are balanced in most cases. I don't like it, but it's how it is.

[Sathid]

so mr. smartguy ... tell me again how a powertech can heal himself ... you know, what with only having once self-HoT on a 2min CD that only restores are marginal amount of health ... ?

 

personally, as a shieldtech, i laugh at scoundrels in 1v1 but still, you, sir, have no idea about powertechs ...

 

Never said i know about your class,fact is i cannot take you down and your class wins 70% or more of the time,maybe you should be nerfed with your damage that you do plus your defense?

I have to use stealth pick a target ONE and after that out of stealth im dead by any class that wishes to hit me,so if im lucky over the course of two minutes if i wish to keep my vanish i get what 2 big burst attacks,you get prolonged damage and kills over and over and rarely get brought down to 50% health,and thats a fact Jack you know it,i know it.

[ReynoldsCK]

It's obvious that all the classes need balancing.

[Darthbarbarous]

Posting lies won't bring you anywhere.

 

You don't really expect the game to be balanced for all the 1 vs 1 duels, do you?

So this thread is quite pointless, just funny showing your rage at lost duel

 

Any sensible point to make?

 

I agree with most of this statement, minus the lies part. I have no idea if the person Always dies to scoundrels in less the 5 seconds so I cannot say if he is a liar. However what I can say is this: For starters, operatives and scoundrels (lets remember that both sides have the same class that can do the same things) are a burst dps class meant to do massive dmg and get out. In this regard, they should be killing people quickly and they definately perform this function well if played correctly. So in the whole 1v1 situation, they are always going to have the upper hand - working as intended. But what everyone fails to realize is that Warzones are a group effort and if in a Warzone, the team is playing well backing each other and sticking together (key in survival) then that op/scoundrel may get an large opener on a target, but then should be CCd and burned by the others. In the best case scenerio, the op/scoundrel will get the kill and then also die immediately after. They are squishy and once their burst is gone, they got nothing. So essentially they can trade a kill for a death. But if people are running around like headless chickens in the WZ wondering off on their own, or just playing poorly and not supporting their teammates then yes, expect to get *** pwned by classes meant to take out single targets quickly. End of story. This game will not be balanced about a 1v1 match up.

 

Edit: now if these classes can sustain this type of high dmg output for extended periods of time then there is definately an issue which would need to be addressed by BW, but from what I have observed they can't. For the record, I play neither a scoundrel or an op.

Edited January 9, 2012 by Darthbarbarous

[Lord_Karsk]

Agreed and adding the fact of lack of TIMED combat log (like WAR has) that would add extra proof.

 

Yes there was a combat log in beta but they removed it for this reason before launch.

There was alot of complaints about the Operative even back then but as always they choose to ignore all the feedback.And today we have no combat log and OP OP.

Edited January 9, 2012 by Lord_Karsk

[Vant]

Because killing someone outright is BAD in a team fight AMIRITE!?

 

You sir, are a moron.

 

Instead of trying to PvP in SWToR you should go play League of Legends, maybe then you'll understand the role of certain things in team fights. At the very least, it'll be easier for you to understand.

 

Take a look in the mirror there kid. Classes that require extremely situational DPS to do damage are not good in teams. You wanna know how many times I've gone in for the kill in Warzones in a busy fight and BOOM, no stealth, which means no opener, which means no real damage. You wanna know how many times I've been seen before I can get my opener off and BOOM, popped? It requires setup and too many factors, which is why it is bad for groups.

 

Scrappers live for creating 1v1 fights. They jump the guy in the back standing there healing or casting, THIS IS THE GUY THEY SHOULD BEAT.

[KorwinOfAmber]

My problem with the OPs/Sins is not the Burst actually. Its that they ARENT the glass cannons they claim to me. In most encounters they can kill anyone 1on1 just because they can kill you faster than you can kill them. MUCH faster.

 

In group situation it means, that while two people DPS an OP, if he gots cooldowns or any heal recieved he can easely kill one of the two, while you woudnt have time to even drop him to half HP, and then start with second.

 

That way obviously, 2 such classes, would kill enemys even faster. The ONLY counter to them is AoE - and lets be honest, here a lvl 50 gear plays to their advantage, since THEY can kill people really really fast. THEY however cannot be killed same fast, thanks to gear being quite survivable and thus exploit the DPS advantage without really worrying about survival.

 

And if it happens that he is focused he just pops back into stealth.

[G-Seven]

Balance stim buffs first, then we can talk about the Acid Blade armor pen buff.

[CHRISGG]

Balance stim buffs first, then we can talk about the Acid Blade armor pen buff.

 

Why do people keep mentionign stims. They're nothing compared to the stacking expertise buffs.

[DarthQube]

i see a wow rogue before tbc xD

[OldManRelic]

This thread is dumb and non-specific. You're not talking about Scoundrels/Operative -- you're talking about one specific spec line. The suggestions I've seen in this thread border on inane, in some cases. The very clear lack of understanding shown in comments like 'don't let them use their cc from stealth' pretty much disproves any idea that the posters did anything other than die once in a WZ (probably to a fully geared and buffed Concealment Operative) and then come here to complain.

 

Let me clue you in: Concealment Oprative damage is based around Acid Blade and Hidden Strike -- the knockdown is something you spec for with Hidden Strike. Once the Op/Scoundrel is in combat, he or she cannot re-stealth, outside of a 2 minute timered ability.

 

What's this mean? Pretty much, the guy who kills you is going to, in turn, get smashed by your buddies, assuming you have them. This is why I don't spec my Operative Concealment -- it's all about killing one person, then dying soon after in any sort of group scenario. I prefer adding something to the team besides killing stupid people that wander around alone.

 

Basically, this thread will continue for the life of this MMO (unless Concealment is nerfed so hard that no one uses it). I don't care either way -- I'm specced Lethality and loving it.

[Bulivyf]

Fyi popping evasion will do absolutely nothing to stop you from getting killed by an operative/scoundrel. Their primary attacks are tech attacks.

 

That's the damage type, not the attack type. Attacks are considered either melee, range or force. Scrappers/Operatives are melee/ranged primarily. If their attacks were force you'd not be able to stop them with evasion.

Edited January 9, 2012 by Bulivyf

[Sumire]

Not pvped in this game yet but I saw the thread title. All I can say is it reminds me of another very popular MMO ..made me lol.

[neocoma]

give it some time. in about 6 years BW will bring an addon which shatters alderaan and raises healthpools incredibly to last pvp longer. Then again items will scale like crazy which leads to 50k crits and stuff. Dont worry ...they will manage like Blizzard did. I mean, they have the best pvp devs on board, right?

[Mamono]

....

he is fully buffed.

 

almost any class can do that when fully buffed

 

You think a Bounty Hunter Mercenary can do that? In 3 attacks from ranged?

Here we have a video that this can happen, now please show me show me a video where a bounty hunter can pull this numbers too, or all you do is blabbering air.

[Haralin]

It is funny everyone scream nerf scroundrel or IA and no one noticed they are stim buffed and that it is what needs a nerf.

 

 

is this not a BH?

 

Edited January 9, 2012 by Haralin

[Bulivyf]

Honestly BHs/Commandos I consider a joke in BGs just because of how easy it is to lock them out of Tracer/GRounds. I can 1v1 geared level 50 Mercenaries on my level 18 Operative just be LoSing/Interrupting Tracers while letting corrosive tick and popping out for overload shots with explosive probe when stun is up.

[bklynfinest]

My solution to Scoundrels: throw on Undying Rage and hope for the best.