Yes. I want WOW with Wookies and Lightsabers.

[PulseXXX]

I would just like to point out a very important and false perception that is being spread:

 

"WoW is the most popular online game." False. They are the most subscribed to MMO but there are several other games that absolutely smoke WoW when it comes to pure number of players. Why is this distinction important? Simply to highlight the next point:

 

As far as online pc gamers go, only about 10% of the market is MMO gamers. Of that market about 55% of it is WoW. Being generous, we can say that WoW controls 6% of the market share.

 

This means about 94% of online gamers do not play WoW.

 

BW and EA are not trying to appeal to that 6% of the market, they are attempting to appeal to 100% of the market. Certainly they know that over half of gamers wont be interested in any MMO but they also know that building a game around the desires of a small segment of the market isn't really where the money is at. Where is the money? The money is in doing exactly what WoW did. They didn't copy the game as many of you seem to think (no more than any mmo), they copied the approach.

 

You see, when WoW came out, EQ1 was top dog. What Blizzard did was make the MMORPG more accessible to your average gamer. They simplified the game and made it more appealing at the beginning. The beast that was WoW wasn't that it stole all of EQ1s players, it's that it expanded the market as a whole.

 

SWTOR has developed an MMO that appeals to the casual gamer, and that is what has Blizzard worried. They started with their existing demographic, KOTOR fans, and went from there. SWTOR will survive not by stealing WoW players, but by building its own playerbase to gain a share of the market...

 

If I knew what will happen after that, I would be a millionaire stock trader. Maybe in 6 months development is stale and SWTOR will end up like WAR. Maybe in a year WoW launches the new expansion and instead of bringing back inactive players, subscriptions fall through the roof. As of now, SWTOR is out and all the rage.

[DarthRik]

for a moment i thought you were talking about swtor lol

 

in wow it works like this

 

1-10 noob zone

10-15 spam pvp button

15-85 spam LFG standing in the same spot near a vender to sell trash

85-geared up spam LFG for heroics untill geared up, standing in the same spot selling trash, once you have all the points you need buy *add tier lvl here*

85-deathwing kill, keep spamming LFG for heroic and once at ilvl start spamming LFR, still standing in the same spot, kill deathwing and then start again on an alt

 

 

all this with out talking to anyother player = single player game

 

now for Swtor

 

quest and talk to other players to find groups making friends along the way, group up for heroic areas (remember them elite areas in wow, full of group quests what happened to them... oh yes removed to make the game easyer)

 

yeah wow is by far the better game

 

swtor - 1 month old and has 1.5 million subs and growing

 

wow - 8 years old and bleeding subs like crazy

[Chosenxeno]

I like Wow, or moreso, I liked it very much at one time. I don't' hate it though, its just old. I may very well go back to wow. I have a raid tank over there that I love playing, but I don't want another game just like it.

 

I'm having a ball.

 

This is not that game, and I doubt it will end up being that game. The story line is awesome, and the game promises to be also, well, for those that want to stop abbreviating MMORPG's again.

 

The interface is just a shell for a new release. It will change dramatically I feel. I don't think that there is anyone that does not believe there will be much more flexibility as we move forward. I'm not against addons either. I probably had more then anyone I knew in WoW.

 

I would rather the game not become the next epic battle for first world kills, though. If I can have that with some raiding that does not require hours of min maxing, that would also be great. If they can pull it off while discouraging it from becoming yet another race focusing on bleeding edge competition, then yeah.... Pretty sure that I'm here to stay.

 

Then you are playing the wrong type of Game. You should be playing Hack N Slash games or Dungeon Crawlers.

[Daellia]

You are Wrong. WOW is what MMOs should try to be. It's entering it's 7th year and still has a huge Subs base despite new competition from so-called "Next Gen" MMORPGs. To say that companies should not want the long-term success WOW has had, and that they should fight against the brilliant Advancements is ludicrous.

 

I'll agree, WoW has made Blizz some serious cash. However, they've also proven quite distinctly that their recent decisions on design have been the bane of that game's longevity. With game companies, longevity is just as important as raw income, particularly when the game cost this much to produce.

[Zipzo]

You clearly don't understand the Definition of Relevant.

In your deluded, ignorant and idiotic opinion, what is the meaning of relevant in this context?

[Elgierro]

Kinda agree, tried SWTOR (lvl 45) and when the story stopped pulling me into the game i just stopped playing because without the story there is no reason to stay for me.

 

Camping general ti find groups for a stupid lvl up dungeon, spending half an hour to find 4 people to do a H4 and then they still have to get there, Doing H2 and finding out that it's more like a H4 in discuise, all of these thing make me wanna cry sometimes.

 

So i played early acces, then went on to 45 and decided, that if what everyone says is true, i better go back to wow, wait a month or so for bioware to finish the game like it should have been and return when they are done.

 

My experience so far for SWTOR is that i played a unfinished game with a nice story attached to it, aa story which would have been better if it was SP.

[Amandeep]

I would just like to point out a very important and false perception that is being spread:

 

"WoW is the most popular online game." False. They are the most subscribed to MMO but there are several other games that absolutely smoke WoW when it comes to pure number of players. Why is this distinction important? Simply to highlight the next point:

 

As far as online pc gamers go, only about 10% of the market is MMO gamers. Of that market about 55% of it is WoW. Being generous, we can say that WoW controls 6% of the market share.

 

This means about 94% of online gamers do not play WoW.

 

BW and EA are not trying to appeal to that 6% of the market, they are attempting to appeal to 100% of the market. Certainly they know that over half of gamers wont be interested in any MMO but they also know that building a game around the desires of a small segment of the market isn't really where the money is at. Where is the money? The money is in doing exactly what WoW did. They didn't copy the game as many of you seem to think (no more than any mmo), they copied the approach.

 

You see, when WoW came out, EQ1 was top dog. What Blizzard did was make the MMORPG more accessible to your average gamer. They simplified the game and made it more appealing at the beginning. The beast that was WoW wasn't that it stole all of EQ1s players, it's that it expanded the market as a whole.

 

SWTOR has developed an MMO that appeals to the casual gamer, and that is what has Blizzard worried. They started with their existing demographic, KOTOR fans, and went from there. SWTOR will survive not by stealing WoW players, but by building its own playerbase to gain a share of the market...

 

If I knew what will happen after that, I would be a millionaire stock trader. Maybe in 6 months development is stale and SWTOR will end up like WAR. Maybe in a year WoW launches the new expansion and instead of bringing back inactive players, subscriptions fall through the roof. As of now, SWTOR is out and all the rage.

 

My babies. Take them now

[DarthSublimitas]

Because...it worked? Honestly, take an objective look at the subscription number patterns. Welfare epics and easy raids come with Wrath, and continued from there, becoming more and more prevalent with each expac. Sub numbers hit their peak at the start of Wrath and declined at an ever increasing pace ever since.

 

Regardless of your intuited opinion of the nonsense of content exclusive to those better at the game, the subscription numbers and the game's success tell a very different story. It's pretty clear that that exclusivity, the differential between hardcore and casual players, is a major piece of the "successful MMO" puzzle.

 

Just to back up what was said here, this is the latest from the patch 4.3 notes:

 

"The amount of experience needed to gain levels 71 through 80 has been reduced by approximately 33%.

Many Group quests in Outland and Northrend have been re-tuned to allow players to complete them solo. They are no longer labeled as Group quests."

 

AND

 

"Zul’Gurub

Players now only have to kill two of the four initial dungeon bosses (High Priest Venoxis, Broodlord Mandokir, High Priestess Kilnara, and Zanzil) to face Jin’do the Godbreaker.

 

Zul’Aman

Players now only have to kill two of the four Troll avatars before they may face Hex Lord Malacrass."

 

 

So they are catering it to the casual player - the days of hardcore are long gone...

Edited January 10, 2012 by DarthSublimitas

[Chosenxeno]

in wow it works like this

 

1-10 noob zone

10-15 spam pvp button

15-85 spam LFG standing in the same spot near a vender to sell trash

85-geared up spam LFG for heroics untill geared up, standing in the same spot selling trash, once you have all the points you need buy *add tier lvl here*

85-deathwing kill, keep spamming LFG for heroic and once at ilvl start spamming LFR, still standing in the same spot, kill deathwing and then start again on an alt

 

 

all this with out talking to anyother player = single player game

 

now for Swtor

 

quest and talk to other players to find groups making friends along the way, group up for heroic areas (remember them elite areas in wow, full of group quests what happened to them... oh yes removed to make the game easyer)

 

yeah wow is by far the better game

 

swtor - 1 month old and has 1.5 million subs and growing

 

wow - 8 years old and bleeding subs like crazy

 

So did Rift. How are they doing right now? I'll tell you. 100 servers at launch. 20(and i'm being generous) currently.

 

Do you know why? Because we went back to WOW. Don't be fooled by those early sub Numbers.

[SpeckledHen]

OP, I have been slowly starting to see things your way. What I mainly see is people saying "forget about the money, cater to our platonic ideal of the MMORPG."

 

It simply is not going to happen. If the current player base does not grow, or even shrinks, Bioware will have to take a serious look at the game and determine what should be changed.

 

Right now, only Bioware knows the state of affairs.

[Kugruk]

So when they invented the computer and took it into the workplace it was just a crutch for people who preferred to type instead of write? *** DO U MEAN CDs, THOSE ARE A CRUTCH FOR PPL WHO DONT LIKE 8" DISK! I understand why people dont want addons and macros because they will easy mode the game, stuff like DBM. But saying that the base UI is fine is saying the guy who designed it made up every ones mind about how it should look and feel and that sir is what i like to call an opinion.

 

It's a pretty good thing it's their decision what it should look like, instead of yours and not anyone else's. Like I said previously; if you don't like it there are plenty of other games you are more than welcome to go play.

[DarthRik]

Just to back up what was said here, this is the latest from the patch 4.3 notes:

 

"The amount of experience needed to gain levels 71 through 80 has been reduced by approximately 33%.

Many Group quests in Outland and Northrend have been re-tuned to allow players to complete them solo. They are no longer labeled as Group quests."

 

AND

 

"Zul’Gurub

Players now only have to kill two of the four initial dungeon bosses (High Priest Venoxis, Broodlord Mandokir, High Priestess Kilnara, and Zanzil) to face Jin’do the Godbreaker.

 

Zul’Aman

Players now only have to kill two of the four Troll avatars before they may face Hex Lord Malacrass."

 

 

 

So they are catering it to the casual player - the days of hardcore are long gone...

 

blizzard love the nerf bat

 

what was it they said at the start of Cata? we will be making the game hard again and you will have to work for your loot

 

why didnt they stick to that? i know the player base are 12 year olds and want every thing now.. 1.7 million subs lost in under a year makes me thing blizzard fecked up

[Carnerous]

in wow it works like this

 

1-10 noob zone

10-15 spam pvp button

15-85 spam LFG standing in the same spot near a vender to sell trash

85-geared up spam LFG for heroics untill geared up, standing in the same spot selling trash, once you have all the points you need buy *add tier lvl here*

85-deathwing kill, keep spamming LFG for heroic and once at ilvl start spamming LFR, still standing in the same spot, kill deathwing and then start again on an alt

 

 

all this with out talking to anyother player = single player game

 

now for Swtor

 

quest and talk to other players to find groups making friends along the way, group up for heroic areas (remember them elite areas in wow, full of group quests what happened to them... oh yes removed to make the game easyer)

 

yeah wow is by far the better game

 

swtor - 1 month old and has 1.5 million subs and growing

 

wow - 8 years old and bleeding subs like crazy

 

outside from groupquests i dont see any difference to wow and cluttering the general chat with LFG LFG LFG and then walking 10 meter to the fp is not really different to the df in my opinion

 

oh and i almsot outleveld balmorra and nar shadda with jsut standing in fleet and pvping

[SpeckledHen]

You clearly don't understand the Definition of Relevant.

 

If people are giving their money to maplestory instead of swtor, then it is relevant.

[DarthRik]

So did Rift. How are they doing right now? I'll tell you. 100 servers at launch. 20(and i'm being generous) currently.

 

Do you know why? Because we went back to WOW. Don't be fooled by those early sub Numbers.

 

we arent talking about Rift we are talking about WoW

 

and wow would have half the servers they have if they closed the dead one or merged some

 

which i know is needed if you go and look on the server forums you will see lots of threads screaming for servers to be merged because the player base is starting to get rather small

[Chosenxeno]

I would just like to point out a very important and false perception that is being spread:

 

"WoW is the most popular online game." False. They are the most subscribed to MMO but there are several other games that absolutely smoke WoW when it comes to pure number of players. Why is this distinction important? Simply to highlight the next point:

 

As far as online pc gamers go, only about 10% of the market is MMO gamers. Of that market about 55% of it is WoW. Being generous, we can say that WoW controls 6% of the market share.

 

This means about 94% of online gamers do not play WoW.

 

BW and EA are not trying to appeal to that 6% of the market, they are attempting to appeal to 100% of the market. Certainly they know that over half of gamers wont be interested in any MMO but they also know that building a game around the desires of a small segment of the market isn't really where the money is at. Where is the money? The money is in doing exactly what WoW did. They didn't copy the game as many of you seem to think (no more than any mmo), they copied the approach.

 

You see, when WoW came out, EQ1 was top dog. What Blizzard did was make the MMORPG more accessible to your average gamer. They simplified the game and made it more appealing at the beginning. The beast that was WoW wasn't that it stole all of EQ1s players, it's that it expanded the market as a whole.

 

SWTOR has developed an MMO that appeals to the casual gamer, and that is what has Blizzard worried. They started with their existing demographic, KOTOR fans, and went from there. SWTOR will survive not by stealing WoW players, but by building its own playerbase to gain a share of the market...

 

If I knew what will happen after that, I would be a millionaire stock trader. Maybe in 6 months development is stale and SWTOR will end up like WAR. Maybe in a year WoW launches the new expansion and instead of bringing back inactive players, subscriptions fall through the roof. As of now, SWTOR is out and all the rage.

 

That in the bold is truth. However when a game controls half of the playerbase you will need some of those players to be successful. In my opinion when those people enter your game and don't find the most basic of things, that have been in the Previous game they played and that game also happens to be the most successful of the genre that you are trying to enter that's a problem.

[DarthRik]

outside from groupquests i dont see any difference to wow and cluttering the general chat with LFG LFG LFG and then walking 10 meter to the fp is not really different to the df in my opinion

 

oh and i almsot outleveld balmorra and nar shadda with jsut standing in fleet and pvping

 

but the only real way to lvl in wow is with group questing with LFG and your 50% extra xp account bound gear

 

and good for you lvling with pvp

 

i also remember a great pvp game called Warhammer online

 

i lvled from lvl 1 - 40 with just pvp

 

and there pvp kicked the crap out of wows anyday

[jball]

This is a pretty sad game, I kept telling myself after Beta I wouldn't get it. I returned my preorder, like 15 of my friends got it and so I finally made the purchase.

 

This game is exactly like WoW (only wayyyy worse), if you don't see it...you've never played WoW. I've played WoW for 7 years, and a 7 year old game is better than SWTOR which came out the last 10 days of 2011....really? How can a game from 2004 be better than this?

 

Production quality is BAD in this game. Laggy and when I use a skill there is a 1-3 second delay before it goes off. Sh*t I even have to load into a conversation. No customization in the UI, and it's just SLOW.

 

People keep comparing the story on SWTOR to WoW....in Star Wars, I would say it had a better story. When I think of Star Wars, I don't think of the Old Republic. Quite frankly I couldn't give 2 sh*ts about the Old Republic. I don't know anything about Darth Malgus, and I don't even know the name of the main Jedi chick.

 

When i got into WoW, I knew the story about Thrall and Jaina. I knew the story of Arthas and how he had fallen to the dark side (no pun intended), and the Story of Illidan, the Forsaken and ETC.

 

So the whole "SWTOR has a better story" can **** of here. I care not for 1 single character I've found except my companions. I can actually delv into their persona. There is no depth at all, just voice overs and a ton of cut scenes.

 

I was a pretty hardcore raiding and PvP'er in WoW. PvP is such a cluster F in this game. It takes me forever to find a group for a Flashpoint as a TANK! !!!??? I can't even do anything but level another toon while I wait for the next WoW x-pack or Guild Wars 2

 

WoW was successful because it was simple, and everything worked very smoothly. Production value was a key part in WoW's success. Not seeing the quality here at all.

[gorkah]

OP has some bawls and good points.

[Daellia]

So did Rift. How are they doing right now? I'll tell you. 100 servers at launch. 20(and i'm being generous) currently.

 

Do you know why? Because we went back to WOW. Don't be fooled by those early sub Numbers.

 

Rift made two mistakes. First, they didn't have much end-game content at launch, and had a number of major bugs present at launch, several of which weren't fixed for a number of months after launch. This resulted in a massive decline of continuing subscribers from the preorder and launch population. However, Rift has been gaining ground again over the last 6 months to a year. Trion isn't a publicly traded company, so they don't (and don't have to) make their subscription numbers public like Blizzard does, so we don't know for sure, but it's estimated by critics that Rift is between 1 and 2 mil subs.

[Carnerous]

but the only real way to lvl in wow is with group questing with LFG and your 50% extra xp account bound gear

 

i have no idea what you are trying to say

[Barathos]

Rift made two mistakes. First, they didn't have much end-game content at launch, and had a number of major bugs present at launch, several of which weren't fixed for a number of months after launch. This resulted in a massive decline of continuing subscribers from the preorder and launch population. However, Rift has been gaining ground again over the last 6 months to a year. Trion isn't a publicly traded company, so they don't (and don't have to) make their subscription numbers public like Blizzard does, so we don't know for sure, but it's estimated by critics that Rift is between 1 and 2 mil subs.

 

I must've missed those massive bugs in Rift...

[Ndrow]

It's a pretty good thing it's their decision what it should look like, instead of yours and not anyone else's. Like I said previously; if you don't like it there are plenty of other games you are more than welcome to go play.

 

You really didnt notice my reply post after my response to you, I paid for this game, I will continue to pay for this game. I have always loved this company and will continue to love this company. But choice is key here, how i want it to look and maybe vary a roll bar. You say its good that its not up to me but may i ask why i cant move a bar and why you seem to think that my lack of that option is a good thing?

[DarthRik]

This is a pretty sad game, I kept telling myself after Beta I wouldn't get it. I returned my preorder, like 15 of my friends got it and so I finally made the purchase.

 

This game is exactly like WoW (only wayyyy worse), if you don't see it...you've never played WoW. I've played WoW for 7 years, and a 7 year old game is better than SWTOR which came out the last 10 days of 2011....really? How can a game from 2004 be better than this?

 

Production quality is BAD in this game. Laggy and when I use a skill there is a 1-3 second delay before it goes off. Sh*t I even have to load into a conversation. No customization in the UI, and it's just SLOW.

 

People keep comparing the story on SWTOR to WoW....in Star Wars, I would say it had a better story. When I think of Star Wars, I don't think of the Old Republic. Quite frankly I couldn't give 2 sh*ts about the Old Republic. I don't know anything about Darth Malgus, and I don't even know the name of the main Jedi chick.

 

When i got into WoW, I knew the story about Thrall and Jaina. I knew the story of Arthas and how he had fallen to the dark side (no pun intended), and the Story of Illidan, the Forsaken and ETC.

 

So the whole "SWTOR has a better story" can **** of here. I care not for 1 single character I've found except my companions. I can actually delv into their persona. There is no depth at all, just voice overs and a ton of cut scenes.

 

I was a pretty hardcore raiding and PvP'er in WoW. PvP is such a cluster F in this game. It takes me forever to find a group for a Flashpoint as a TANK! !!!??? I can't even do anything but level another toon while I wait for the next WoW x-pack or Guild Wars 2

 

WoW was successful because it was simple, and everything worked very smoothly. Production value was a key part in WoW's success. Not seeing the quality here at all.

 

so why are you here?

 

why did you buy the game?

 

why are you here?

 

you knew the story of WoW becuase you played WC3

 

i know the story of SWtor becuase i played Kotor 1/2

 

so no diffrence there

[Caraanam]

LFR killed wow IMHO...it killed the community and the need for a guild and the need for being good at all.. And as SW seems to just barely have a need for a community now, a LFR system would make it even worse. I hate wow now, just jump on, hit a button, see all the content with a bunch of baddies or ppl you wont ever see again...BAM DONE...gets old quick.

 

The current "who" tab shows you, who's looking for what...just need to encourage more folks to actually use it.

 

 

I dont mind some add-on's but too many = problems also...

 

UI changers= good

OMEN=bad...learn to do your job without an addon

Recount...is nice only so you know what you could be doing better, i hate the finger pointing that comes along with it tho.

 

mouse over macro's good, heal bot -bad

 

and so forth...

Edited January 10, 2012 by Caraanam