Senthinel vs DPS Shadow which one is better DPS ?

[RamzaBehoulve]

Shadow wins.

Unless you are just REALLY REALLY Bad at the game. In which case, you'll suck no matter what class you play.

 

Unless you play a Commando/Mercenary.

 

Using Vanish to flee alive isn't winning (and even then that's only if the Sentinel didn't use Cauterize.)

[Rankith]

Correction. Bioware did it wrong. Precision slash is the only way I can really kill anything quickly which is what sents were suppose to do. Force Leap. Leg slash, Zealous slash. Blade Rush, then Blade Storm. IS the best combo to kill anything. BUT. You have With stealth. knock back sttuns and roots. Not to mention if they stealth up. Then goodbuy to any chance of landing that mess. All classes outclass JK and SW when it comes to killing someone easily.

 

Nope, its you. Im doing fine... Im pretty sure at least some of the assassins/shadows I have fought have been of equal skill and gear and I win much more often then not. Also, Combat currently feels like the worst spec to me .

 

Your last sentence may be correct however, the ability to kill people is there, but its definately the most technically difficult for Sent/Marauder imo.

 

It's threads like this that make me wonder if we are even playing the same game, because my experience so far has been completely different from a lot of what I read here.

 

And as for 1v1 vs. shadow, well sure if I catch one out of stealth I can beat them np. However it usually goes like this :

 

backstab out of stealth > stun > backstab > vanish > backstab > dead sentinel. If resolute is up for the stun I might stand a chance, but if not well... gg...

 

Shadows rarely use their backstab type move ><. If you are dieing to this there is a massive massive gear difference lol.

[Toppins]

Shadows CANNOT DPS as well as a Sentinel (in PvP, at least). They bring more utility in their CC/stealth/tanking, but if you're being out-dps'ed by a similar Shadow/Assassin you are, uh... doing it wrong.

[FobManX]

I was doing Red Reaper with a 47 Shadow earlier(I was a 46 Sentinel)and I was routinely out DPSing him. I know because we were splitting DPS on equal mobs and I was killing mine when he would have his at ~50%. Now maybe he was just bad, I don't know, but this is a fairly regular occurence for me.

[Unotos]

As I have played a shadow to 50 and a sent to 35 I can honestlysay that the shadow " feels " quicker... their burst is just crazy... i can take a mob from 100% to 0 in 4 attack combinations.... but the ultimate difference is control... as a shadow i control the entire fight... shadow is not about " raw" damage its about tactical burst and focused ddamage... the sent is just in your face rip it apart play style... people who play shadows like that are gimping themselves... everything for shadow is based out of stealth (improved force regen heeelloooo ) so they are not the same in any shape or form... Sent is always damaging (at a lower per hit ratio) where shadow is more damage on demand (burst) play style. I fell in love with my shadow.

 

When it comes to comparing dps from generic grouping, there is a TON of factors to consider... one of the most important being.. GEAR.... if the person is not using upgraded to their level hilts / mods... their weapon dps falls way behind on those planets... right now I am using a lvl 23 hilt and my top end damage is just shy of 700 with my shadow... i know alot of people out there still use 19 hilts at level 50...

 

Bioware has repeatidly stated taht ALL classes will do on par dps to each other as that is their intention... they will, however, do it differently which is why each class is unique...

 

It has been said COUNTLESS times... STOP Comparing DPS this vs dps that.. and play the class style you LIKE... if you want in your FACE SMASH.. play a sent / jk... if you want control and tactical advantage play a shadow... it really is that simple...

Edited January 10, 2012 by Unotos

[Immortal_Flow]

My experiences tell me the same thing.

a bit worst also.

because sometimes i'm joined by another friend and we can finally outdamage him, but he heals himself by half his life and disappear or just dash for the safety.

 

I REALLY hate to say that. but that dash is unbeliavable. Even more with long invisibility.

 

Realistically you are looking at... spinning kick/shadow strike, Project, force breach, shadow strike, stealth, repeat. It isn't shadow strike spam like you want to think.

 

Of course there is force potency, stun, push back that would effect the rotation based on what you are doing or how much damage the shadow wants to do. Shadows can also not heal themselves without consumables unless tank spec.

 

This forum is riddled with bad information. The best way to beat someone in PvP is to understand them. I have a 40 shadow and started a sentinel. I have almost no problems with shadows/assassins on a sentinel knowing what and how the class operates.

Edited January 30, 2012 by Immortal_Flow

[DosPeros]

It's threads like this that make me wonder if we are even playing the same game, because my experience so far has been completely different from a lot of what I read here.

 

And as for 1v1 vs. shadow, well sure if I catch one out of stealth I can beat them np. However it usually goes like this :

 

backstab out of stealth > stun > backstab > vanish > backstab > dead sentinel. If resolute is up for the stun I might stand a chance, but if not well... gg...

 

I wonder myself.... some nights I have a really great PVP warzone and think I'm all bad *** then I get owned on a 1v1 on ilum with some guy constantly invising and stunning.....

 

Can I have at least one knock down or knock back? Even if they just rework the animation for a different skill... I get tired of being the fish and not the fisherman.

[EasymodeX]

Sent should always beat an Assassin tank. You do more DPS, have better defenses, and can heal a decent fraction if you're Watchman.

 

DPS Assassin spec can be dangerous; their Shock can crit for over 9000 if they hit cooldowns (which they should).

[emeraldon]

edited due to the fact that i didnt read the post;

 

When it comes to Warzones, I have no problems with shadows/assassins if i have all my cooldowns up. Depends a bit on gear (should he be full battlemaster etc) but 90% of the times I get them first.

Edited January 31, 2012 by emeraldon

[Bleah]

PvP aside, an infiltration shadow will do better initially... Until he runs out of force, which happens really fast. They have a lot of burst but they can't sustain it for very long. After about 4-5 attack sequences they have to hit saber strike to regen some force... They don't get instant large resource builders like zealous strike.

[McVade]

It's kinda an awkward deal with Shadows. I tend to laugh at Shadows in a 1v1 situation, but I would change myself into one in a second if given the option, as they are so much more useful and overall damaging in a PvP environment.

 

IMHO:

 

Shadows are better overall DPS in PvP. The key difference being is they frontload all their DPS and have no incentive to ration their power, so they come out swinging with their full "force bar" and don't let up until it drops to nothing. In PvP, that translates to you getting most of your damage in before the enemy dies.

 

Sentinels require *a lot* of time to get rolling. In order to deal DPS at the rate of a Shadow, you need about 7-8 seconds of build time to unleash it and generate the Focus for your big hits. If you and a Shadow are both on someone and he drops in 10 seconds, the Shadow probably did 75% of the damage, since you had to wait so long to build it up.

 

Also, when a Shadow is knocked back, it's not as big of a DPS loss for him because his force regenerates. Unlike us, Shadows regain their "focus" by *not* attacking, so if he unloads his damage for a few seconds, THEN gets stunned/knocked back, he's 'regening' his focus for another big attack when he gets into melee, so it's like deferring your DPS rather than losing it.

 

For us, any second we're not pushing a button next to someone, we're taking a massive DPS hit because we're *not* regenerating resources. We're not deferring anything - we're flat out losing it. This is a huge underlying issue with Sentinels that just isn't talked about enough. How many times have you been just out of cooldowns and knocked back/stunned/rooted. All the while, you don't gain Focus. You just lose time. Shadow gets any of this with 0-50% of his Force gone, he - at least - regens it during the stun/CC, so overall, their DPS is much more flexible to the insanely prevalent CC craziness that exists in PvP.

 

IMHO: Shadow is hands down superior in every way in PvP, even if we can beat one in a duel. We're sort of a counter-class for them, 1v1, but you'll be far more useful to your team as a Shadow, both in DPS and Utility (having a form of Guard, an instant stun AND a pull/knockback built into your class just puts us to shame).

Edited January 31, 2012 by McVade

[Tumri]

Ignoring the OP's question...

 

 

I could really care less what PVP damage is. That is such a flakey stat for pvp. I'd rather compare my Kills and killing blows to everyone elses. I'd also look at any 1 v 1 fights I had.

 

If you are going for PVP, sentinels are a beast. I don't get 400k or 300k like some of these guys are saying, but my kill count is always easily in the top 3. I don't get scared of anyone in a 1 v 1 fight, I think we have a great advantage there.

 

In PVE however, we are gimped badly. I've got some great weapons and I still only do about 1250 dps. I took my guy out to corelia(spelling i am sure) and fought some elites 1 v 1 timing it till they died. If you do that with some other classes, lets say for instance the HEALER i brought along so I wouldn't have to worry about my health while fighting, he did the same DPS.

 

I'm no slouch but if you really feel the need label me bad. But go try it yourself and see where you stack up. I really wish this game had a combat log since that would go a long way to seeing what our actual damage is instead of this craptastic way I am doing it.

 

 

Combat spec'd. I tested watchman as well and my dps dropped about 200.

 

I'm not sure what kind of weirdo testing you're doing but I guarantee it's wrong. A healer cannot do 1250 DPS no matter what gear they have. Carnage/Combat spec is also inferior.

 

Here is my testing method...

 

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4A02FA5847B90264

 

The best way to time yourself and calculate DPS is to have a companion out on a mission so that you have the mission timer to go by. It's far more accurate than outside timers. It's also more accurate when you test against a mob with 100k+ health. Anything under that is beyond stupid to test on because burst specs and classes with good burst cooldowns will always pull ahead.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Tumri

[Soulaufein]

if u r talking about dps its a pve issue! noone cares how much dps u offer in pvp, its all about the ability to kill targets.

 

Wise words, and the reason why Combat Sentinels dont suck in PvP unlike common belief.

 

Its all fine and dandy to see a Sorcerer lead the DPS charts, but the thing is if I target him he is going down, whereas a nice chunk of their damage is, well, inconsequential and not single target focused in the end. Theres a big diference between the DPS charts in PvP and consequential damage.

 

And Combat is all about "consequential damage".

Edited February 1, 2012 by Soulaufein

[selectah]

And as for PVE dmg, sentinel (watchman) wins hads down a long way. And we even have more to contribute to the party and much higher survavability.

[TheWhiskey]

They have different play styles whilst completing the same role, which is DPS.

 

Shadow is more of a true assassin class with more burst DPS, whilst sentinels take out people just by being on their face all game.

 

One thing I would tell you to bear in mind is that shadows can tank or DPS, while sentinels can single target DPS or AoE DPS. If you fancy playing more than role with one char then you should try shadow first.

Edited February 1, 2012 by TheWhiskey

[-Arcane-]

Good sentinel > good shadow

 

Bad sentinel < bad shadow

 

QED

[Drin-King]

Most of you are bullsh*tting.

 

If a Shadow wants to kill you he will. Saberward? Rebuke? He'll just vanish and wait them out. All you are then is a sentinel with no defensive cooldowns but a self-cc'ing stun and a slow. Not gonna cut it.

[-Arcane-]

They wear paper armour, in the 5seconds that you have GBtF up you can take them to 20%, stack dots and force camo, dispatch from stealth, gg.

[EasymodeX]

You can't drop a good assassin to 20% in 5 seconds. Their evasion cooldown alone will negate that.

 

Also, you cannot negate their Project/Shock, except by a spec'd Watchman Camo or GBTF, and they can pop it every 6 seconds. It will nail you for 5-9k depending on the gear differential and if they get the proc or not. They will always autocrit 1 shock.

 

So, basically they have a faster cycle on their burst than a Sent, which means you need to stall their burst cycle (which is Voltaic - Voltaic - Shock). Focus is actually rather good at this, since you only need 1 GCD of contact (ZS - Exhaust), then you can run away or Camo into a charge - Sweep - MS. Note1: Make sure you don't Exhaust or Sweep into their force deflection cooldown. Note2: the snare on Exhaust will enable you to hit 10m for charge. It's a cold day in hell before an Assassin specs a GCD on snaring a Sent in melee combat.

 

Anyways, delaying their combo enables you to unload your full combo. Only they'll inevitably stun and/or vanish. You'll end up using GBTF or Camo here, whichever you didn't use before. Note3: if you have Caut on them, which is useful, then hit Awe and run away a bit so you can charge them again. They'll typically try to stay in stealth for a second to build up energy faster, but the Caut will negate that, and the distance you gain will enable you to charge. In addition, they won't be able to Voltaic directly out of stealth, saving you 1 GCD ish.

 

Basically if they have a gear/buff advantage and you let them get off 2 clean crit Shocks (5-9k a pop), you lose (or are very close to losing if you had good RNG). If you negate at least 1 of those, and you've unloaded your main attacks (OCS, Rupt, Merc, or Exh, Sweep) twice without wasting one into an immunity or dodge, then you win. It's actually somewhat more difficult to win the fight as Watchman, because all of Watchman's attacks are melee, and the Assassin's force deflect is dead-***********-obvious (and only lasts like 4 seconds), whereas the evasion buff is not, and lasts longer.

[HollowVamp]

I've seen shadow's break 400k dmg in a wz, never seen a sentinel come even close. Just sayin what I have seen...

 

personally in a good wz myself I can do around 200k, but thats when we are running around owning everyone.

 

i frequently break 500 and 600k as watchman in warzones.