Lascero Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) Weak healing, small range, expensive cost, cooldown, low target limit. This ability is, bluntly, terrible in PvP and PvE. Edited January 9, 2012 by Lascero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corran Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 yes it is. a single kolto heals for about 200 pts more than one slow release medpack. it's pathetic for it's talent and energy cost and considering the cooldown it's healing should EQUAL a 2 stacked slow release med pack at a minimum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxvla Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Just have to use it right. It's not great most of the time, but when everything lines up it's pretty good. Used it on the Darth Malgus fight and learned how good it could be. Will be trying to use it more when I recognize situations that would be good for it. 2nd boss in this video Our first time there, trying to figure out how to finish the fight. Also had some lovely heals that didn't 'heal', just got stuck in the animation and had to recast it. Almost died a couple times because of it. The heal is not a lot per target, but 30 energy for 5 350-400 ticks (fresh 50 gear) on 4 targets and 1 global cooldown is CHEAP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryptaz Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 In PvE this ability is actually quite powerful if used correctly. Yes it does cost huge amount of energy, I know. But keep your tank up with 2x hots of Slow medpac, and then Diagnose scan (if you have taken the talent). After this you should have full energy, now just pop a Colto cloud which in many fights keep both you and your grp @ 100% health. Atleast I learned the rotations and find it very useful now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corran Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 you two must be joking. i'm guessing maybe neither of you have seen the seer aoe heal in action? the hot on that does more than kolto cloud does Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lascero Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) Just have to use it right. It's not great most of the time, but when everything lines up it's pretty good. Used it on the Darth Malgus fight and learned how good it could be. Will be trying to use it more when I recognize situations that would be good for it. 2nd boss in this video Our first time there, trying to figure out how to finish the fight. Also had some lovely heals that didn't 'heal', just got stuck in the animation and had to recast it. Almost died a couple times because of it. The heal is not a lot per target, but 30 energy for 5 350-400 ticks (fresh 50 gear) on 4 targets and 1 global cooldown is CHEAP. It's bad because the damage in ops is so high, you're going to be doing spot healing while maintaining a tank. You simply can't afford to keep it going among everything else and even if you can fit it in, it doesn't end up being worth the cost because your healing on this skill doesn't scale well in regards to everyone elses' HP pools. I solo healed the first boss in HM EV (8man), our tank had 20k HP, the rest of us with 15k to 16k. Kolto Cloud ticks for 410 in my gear and crits for around 800 with 2x Upper Hand (add a bit more in to account for buffs). That is pennies with a max target of 4 people while being so constrained by energy, while I can cycle Underworld Medicine and E-medpac while sustaining a tank HoT indefinitely and still have comfortable breathing room to spot heal. The energy cost is TOO DAMN HIGH! Not to mention, the talent right below Kolto cloud is double on the imperial side (critical healing bonus), making it extra gimpy! Edited January 9, 2012 by Lascero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azaranth Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 It's awesome in both PVE and PVP. I think we can all agree that the range should be extended. It's a capstone skill, and should be a little less frustrating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatduck Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Salvation (Sage's 31-pt talent) is a powerful AOE heal with nice little bonus HOT tacked on. The HOT is double what Kolto Cloud heals for, and finishes in 10 seconds instead of 15. Kolto Cloud is god. awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corran Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) Salvation (Sage's 31-pt talent) is a powerful AOE heal with nice little bonus HOT tacked on. The HOT is double what Kolto Cloud heals for, and finishes in 10 seconds instead of 15. Kolto Cloud is god. awful. this exactly. you guys who think kolto cloud is hot are delusional. drop the points put them elsewhere for more oomph when/if you get an opportunity to deeps or just for doing your dailies. http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#701MffbzGoRzZMIMozzZh.1 is what i use until kolto cloud is fixed. i consider it broken right now. Edited January 10, 2012 by Corran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxvla Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 this exactly. you guys who think kolto cloud is hot are delusional. drop the points put them elsewhere for more oomph when/if you get an opportunity to deeps or just for doing your dailies. http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#701MffbzGoRzZMIMozzZh.1 is what i use until kolto cloud is fixed. i consider it broken right now. So, what, should we all stop playing sawbones? All respec to melee damage (like TOR needs more of that..) and wait til we're fixed? You're all fire and brimstone about anything related to sawbones so I'm curious what you are going to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeszh Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 you two must be joking. i'm guessing maybe neither of you have seen the seer aoe heal in action? the hot on that does more than kolto cloud does Dude, you can't just compare them like that. You forget to take into account that the seer's ability has a 2 second cast time where the scoundrel ability is instant. Also, the seer ability requires all people to stand inside the effected area on the ground if they want any healing, where the scoundrel ability just acts like a regular hot. I wouldn't want to switch spells. I find the scoundrel version to be much more applicable in most fights as it is very rare that all the people you need to heal can stand still on top of each other for 10 seconds, which it would require to get all the healing from the sage AoE heal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azaranth Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Dude, you can't just compare them like that. You forget to take into account that the seer's ability has a 2 second cast time where the scoundrel ability is instant. Also, the seer ability requires all people to stand inside the effected area on the ground if they want any healing, where the scoundrel ability just acts like a regular hot. I wouldn't want to switch spells. I find the scoundrel version to be much more applicable in most fights as it is very rare that all the people you need to heal can stand still on top of each other for 10 seconds, which it would require to get all the healing from the sage AoE heal Let us also not forget that it costs them a whopping 100 force power to use, which is about 1/6 their total resources. They have a very difficult time casting that spell more than once without repercussions. By comparison, we cast Kolto Cloud for 30 energy, and if you immediately follow it up with a Diagnostic Scan, you recover 18 to 24 of that energy (depending on your crit rate). In the end, we can realistically keep Kolto Cloud up full-time, assuming that you can afford the channel time for a Diagnostic Scan. A sage cannot do that. Apples and Oranges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donnadarco Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 this is how i heal Hardmodes. -Keep 2 stacks of slow medpacks on all Mele dps and Tank. -Keep rolling Kolto cloud on tank. That way i target Mele dps also that take Cone Aoe dmg. ALWAYS pree HOT players before a Pull ! DONT ever go in a Pull without ALL HOTS ROLLING ! Top of with Kolto pack on tank. Use upper hand for Energy regen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corran Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) Let us also not forget that it costs them a whopping 100 force power to use, which is about 1/6 their total resources. They have a very difficult time casting that spell more than once without repercussions. By comparison, we cast Kolto Cloud for 30 energy, and if you immediately follow it up with a Diagnostic Scan, you recover 18 to 24 of that energy (depending on your crit rate). In the end, we can realistically keep Kolto Cloud up full-time, assuming that you can afford the channel time for a Diagnostic Scan. A sage cannot do that. Apples and Oranges. 1) sages have no power issues at 50 with crit gear. free noble sacs. with 4pc noble sac actually heals them as wel 2) it doesnt matter if it has a cast time, it uses 1/6 their resources of a resource pool that isnt required to be at a certain level at all times for regen issues. ours uses 1/3 of our resource and puts us periously close when used on it's own to dropping our energy regen rate and you neglected to mention that if they use their aoe heal - salvation - after a rejuve - their hot - it only costs 60 energy. oops? how much is that? 1/10th of their pool. at least LOOK at their talent tree before you argue yourselves into a hole 3) the hot part of the seer hot ticks faster, for more per tick and when combined with the instant heal itself with or without a 2s cast our crappy HOT is not worth the extra 6 points to get. you see - a seer picks up talents that increase the healing and healing crit of ALL of their heals by 15% along the way. we pick up a crappy talent that only buffs underworld medicine, kolto pack and kolto cloud. if it also affected slow release and emp THEN it would be worth the point investment - this is especially true if you're trying to get an all around build for pvp and pve play 4) the aoe range that it effects is smaller than the seer aoe heal and we are the ONLY HEALER without anyway to increase armor or protect our allies through healing after the fact. a sage does it by dropping a rejuv. increases target armor by 10%. a commando does it by using a talented advanced medical probe which increases armor by 10% and adds a hot, kolto bomb increases all healing incoming by 5% and if used after popping 30 combat cells also adds an additional 10% reduction to all incoming damage. scoundrels have nothing like this - and you people sit here and think kolto cloud is OK??? Edited January 10, 2012 by Corran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealMesk Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 The sage aoe requires a cast time, and requires people to stay in the area to receive the full benefit correct? Can it potentially heal for more? Sure, but i'll take an insta cast 1k per tick area hot any day of the week over a cast time aoe that might heal for a bit more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancerianmoth Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) I always position myself somewhere between the melee and the range so then when i feel like it i pop kolto cloud on myself. Works as long as everyone is within that 10m range. And yes, pre HoTing everyone is very useful, Kolto Cloud lasts a bit so right before a pull pop it, use diagnostics to quickly bring up the energy and then start your rotation. By all means Cloud should not be spammed. Edited January 10, 2012 by Cancerianmoth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatduck Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 this is how i heal Hardmodes. -Keep 2 stacks of slow medpacks on all Mele dps and Tank. -Keep rolling Kolto cloud on tank. That way i target Mele dps also that take Cone Aoe dmg. ALWAYS pree HOT players before a Pull ! DONT ever go in a Pull without ALL HOTS ROLLING ! Top of with Kolto pack on tank. Use upper hand for Energy regen. i can't take anyone seriously who regularly uses kolto pack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azaranth Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 1) sages have no power issues at 50 with crit gear. free noble sacs. with 4pc noble sac actually heals them as wel 2) it doesnt matter if it has a cast time, it uses 1/6 their resources of a resource pool that isnt required to be at a certain level at all times for regen issues. ours uses 1/3 of our resource and puts us periously close when used on it's own to dropping our energy regen rate and you neglected to mention that if they use their aoe heal - salvation - after a rejuve - their hot - it only costs 60 energy. oops? how much is that? 1/10th of their pool. at least LOOK at their talent tree before you argue yourselves into a hole 3) the hot part of the seer hot ticks faster, for more per tick and when combined with the instant heal itself with or without a 2s cast our crappy HOT is not worth the extra 6 points to get. you see - a seer picks up talents that increase the healing and healing crit of ALL of their heals by 15% along the way. we pick up a crappy talent that only buffs underworld medicine, kolto pack and kolto cloud. if it also affected slow release and emp THEN it would be worth the point investment - this is especially true if you're trying to get an all around build for pvp and pve play 4) the aoe range that it effects is smaller than the seer aoe heal and we are the ONLY HEALER without anyway to increase armor or protect our allies through healing after the fact. a sage does it by dropping a rejuv. increases target armor by 10%. a commando does it by using a talented advanced medical probe which increases armor by 10% and adds a hot, kolto bomb increases all healing incoming by 5% and if used after popping 30 combat cells also adds an additional 10% reduction to all incoming damage. scoundrels have nothing like this - and you people sit here and think kolto cloud is OK??? Are you arguing that Sages are better healers than Scoundrels? I simply don't agree with you. You're trying to take one power out of context (Sage AoE heals more per tick!) and not factor in the big picture (cast times, mobility, etc). The only complaint I have about Kolto Cloud is the 10m AoE range. Other than that, I think it's a perfect compliment to the class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealMesk Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I have yet to see a sage or mirror that can heal for 680k in a voidstar with 0 deaths. Our stealth, and mobility trump the other healers for pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corran Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 tanks dont bother guarding sage healers in the matches i play on my server so i easily outheal them fix'd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corran Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Are you arguing that Sages are better healers than Scoundrels? I simply don't agree with you. You're trying to take one power out of context (Sage AoE heals more per tick!) and not factor in the big picture (cast times, mobility, etc). The only complaint I have about Kolto Cloud is the 10m AoE range. Other than that, I think it's a perfect compliment to the class. the cast time of that heal easly gets down to 1.5s or shorter due to the amount of alacrity on pve/pvp gear for sages. and unlike us, it's actually a stat they want to stack after everything is said and done. you have to get the 2pc champ/battlemaster set to make kolto cloud halfway decent for kolto cloud to be worth the point investment beyond 25 in sawbones it has to do at least as much healing as a double stacked slow release when that 15% from the 2pc pvp set is considered. WITH THAT BONUS It's still almost 25% less than a double stacked slow release in overall healing. operations and flashpoints arent that hard at the moment. anything they put in the game from this point on will be harder - this is mmorpg 101. expect more aoe damage JUST to compensate for how godly the sage aoe heal is. this will hurt scoundrel even more perspective - i have a 50 vanguard, 50 sawbones and 41 seer sage. the difference is readily apparant that early for sage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donnadarco Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) i can't take anyone seriously who regularly uses kolto pack i use Underworld Medicine. And emergency med-pac when upper hand proc .i typed wrong ability. Kolto pack i dont even have paid ranks for. Edited January 11, 2012 by Donnadarco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azaranth Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 the cast time of that heal easly gets down to 1.5s or shorter due to the amount of alacrity on pve/pvp gear for sages. and unlike us, it's actually a stat they want to stack after everything is said and done. you have to get the 2pc champ/battlemaster set to make kolto cloud halfway decent for kolto cloud to be worth the point investment beyond 25 in sawbones it has to do at least as much healing as a double stacked slow release when that 15% from the 2pc pvp set is considered. WITH THAT BONUS It's still almost 25% less than a double stacked slow release in overall healing. operations and flashpoints arent that hard at the moment. anything they put in the game from this point on will be harder - this is mmorpg 101. expect more aoe damage JUST to compensate for how godly the sage aoe heal is. this will hurt scoundrel even more perspective - i have a 50 vanguard, 50 sawbones and 41 seer sage. the difference is readily apparant that early for sage. Good luck with your sage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corran Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Good luck with your sage. i plan to have a 50 of everything republic side. won't be stopping with the sage. but kolto cloud is pretty bad even if they dont buff the healing, at LEAST let it give a 10% armor boost or a 10% damage reduction. we are the only one of the 3 healers who cant provide either of those utility options in our heals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarcen Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) In hardmodes it can be useful if everyone constantly gets (small) damage it will just help a little with regeneration and keeping people at full health. My real issue is during operations, compared to sage, which has infinite targets our is just plain useless, not just because it can only do 4 targets max, but because there is no optimization for the targets it chooses at all. It can easily pick 3 targets that are at full hp (if they are just standing close to the target you are casting it on). To fix this skill it would need smart targetting, picking the lowest hp people first, and increasing the radius in which it does that by a significant amount. Perhaps even extend the smart targetting to the point where it jumps over on other targets if people have been topped and there is still duration left. Edited January 11, 2012 by Sarcen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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