Can someone explain to me when Devs decided commendation gear should be Best in slot

[vranasm]

Why people who pvp and pve can get the best stuff. Crafting can take just as much time as both and more credits. Your saying we shouldn't be reward?

 

 

 

 

Then you picked the wrong MMO. Seriously.

 

I don't think so. Maybe you should read the rest of my post about my intentions in this game before you make conclusions after first sentence.

[Jandi]

Why people who pvp and pve can get the best stuff. Crafting can take just as much time as both and more credits. Your saying we shouldn't be reward?

 

 

 

 

Then you picked the wrong MMO. Seriously.

 

LOL are you for real? This has to be a joke... you should take your own advice man.

[Chromiie]

LOL are you for real? This has to be a joke... you should take your own advice man.

 

Am I complaining about TOR being a progressive MMO? No. I'm complaining that Crafting isn't an alternative way to get BiS gear or even level 50 gear that's on par with the commendation gear. . If you think I'm wrong then please go check out the crafting forums because your dead wrong.

 

I'm not saying make Crew Skills like SWG (amazing) crafting system because it won't work in a themepark MMO but give us the ability to make gear that is on par with pvp and hardmode gear.

 

I think with SWG I spent a fair amount of time when not doing missions for cash was working on crafting skills because they were the only source of gear and experimentation and finding the best raw materials was the difference between an average item and a really good item.

 

Bioware said things like but it's just simply nothing like this.

 

http://massively.joystiq.com/2010/11/12/massively-interviews-bioware-on-swtors-crafting-and-pvp/

 

"I was always a huge crafting fan in all the different games. There were games that I was just a full-time crafter in; that was all I did. And what's great about crafting? The prestige is great, saying like, "Look, I can make these amazing things." The social aspect is amazing. I want people coming to me and saying, "Hey I heard you're the guy to do this." I want to be able to support my friends; I want to be able to do all this. The exploration and the complexity and learning the system is really fun -- I want to get deep into crafting, I want to learn how to do recipes that nobody else can do, I want to sort of master my system. The financial output, if it works well, is nice, right? Saying, "Hey, I'm actually good enough that I can make some money at this. I can do this piece.""

Edited January 9, 2012 by Chromiie

[vranasm]

And why would they make more content/expansions if people got bored and left after 2 months? Can't you people comprehend the dilemma? You just want to consume the game and move on, then have the audacity to ***** and moan about content you don't want to do? THEN DON'T DO IT! Trivializing it doesn't make any sense in the long run.

 

maybe they can spare some money on something some people don't want and won't see and use that money to providing stuff such people want?

 

I know it's tough to imagine this...

 

My view is different then OP and I don't want developers to waste money on content I don't care about.

 

The problem is finding which "side" is stronger on this argument. That's problem of devs and our money will decide in the end (as always does in MMO's).

 

Honestly I could make some dumb claims about percentage of people caring for raids and not caring. I won't do such nonsense. No one (except devs) on this forum can know.

 

We can just bring out some popcorn and watch the patches.

[Mokilok]

Why are you playing a progressive RPG in the first place, then? Before you rant some more, I'm not saying you shouldn't, I'm simply asking WHY if you hate the whole concept of it? You don't see me crying on the latest battlefield forum that I can't kill people cause there is no auto-aim. You don't see me crying about a driving game having the audacity to expect the player the steer the car. Do you get what I'm saying? You cannot have a progressive RPG without progression, if your gear does not progress by playing the game, it's not progression. Why aren't you playing DCUO? That's right, cause it's BORING AS **** because there is *nothing* worth doing in that game after 2 weeks.

 

Again, why are you playing a progressive RPG if you despise progression? Can't you play one of those f2p craps where you can buy the best gear with your vaunted dollars?

 

For the third time, I'm not saying you shouldn't, I'm asking why are you?

 

What I get is that "progression" and "gear grind" are two completely separate things. Why are you so dead set against progression meaning anything other than "I'm a hardcore raider"? I'll never raid in this game. I have a very demanding, time consuming career. I have a baby on the way, I like rpgs and I like the social aspects of MMO's and I damn sure do not have to account for that to a hardcore raider. I damn sure should not have to put a game down simply because I can't raid...which is not progression. I'm not sure how else I can say it....A gear grind is not game progression. If you can't understand that then I imagine you have limited game experience, because you can progress in infinitely more ways than "+.0345% increase to crit or **** of the game".

 

Now, you'll excuse me if I ignore your attempted shut down about me "ranting" when your face is splashed all over this thread...the one I quoted originally being larger than mine put together. Quote me when you have something to contribute besides thinly veiled insults and hypocrisy.

[areto]

This does sound slightly problematic, I remember the way warhammer online was realised with everything looking the same, for the people who raid and go for loot you really do need those special pieces to say, "yes I am a raider."

[Chromiie]

What I get is that "progression" and "gear grind" are two completely separate things. Why are you so dead set against progression meaning anything other than "I'm a hardcore raider"? I'll never raid in this game. I have a very demanding, time consuming career. I have a baby on the way, I like rpgs and I like the social aspects of MMO's and I damn sure do not have to account for that to a hardcore raider. I damn sure should not have to put a game down simply because I can't raid...which is not progression. I'm not sure how else I can say it....A gear grind is not game progression. If you can't understand that then I imagine you have limited game experience, because you can progress in infinitely more ways than "+.0345% increase to crit or **** of the game".

 

Now, you'll excuse me if I ignore your attempted shut down about me "ranting" when your face is splashed all over this thread...the one I quoted originally being larger than mine put together. Quote me when you have something to contribute besides thinly veiled insults and hypocrisy.

 

Jandi clearly think he/she is right.

 

Crafting is a great way for Bioware to give us good gear but make us work for it but they took the easy way out. Coming from SWG this is just terrible.

[Mokilok]

Jandi clearly think he/she is right.

 

Crafting is a great way for Bioware to give us good gear but make us work for it but they took the easy way out. Coming from SWG this is just terrible.

 

Yeah, I've sung that song all along. Personally, I think raid bosses in this game should drop mods and crafting schems only. Giving the crafters the gear to craft and then letting them RE said gear into many many different variants. Think of the guild camaraderie, no one fighting over a loot drop, all of them working for the crafting schems to give to their guild crafters. That's just one tiny little thing that could be done differently to make it mean something more.

Edited January 9, 2012 by Mokilok

[Fenshire]

Sure, I can explain. I didn't read a word of your post, but no worries. This game is about character story progression, not gear progression. Who cares what gives the best gear? If you're already 50 and worrying about gear, you're probably playing the wrong game!

[Chromiie]

Sure, I can explain. I didn't read a word of your post, but no worries. This game is about character story progression, not gear progression. Who cares what gives the best gear? If you're already 50 and worrying about gear, you're probably playing the wrong game!

 

Old Republic is all about gear progression.

 

Yeah, I've sung that song all along. Personally, I think raid bosses in this game should drop mods and crafting schems only. Giving the crafters the gear to craft and then letting them RE said gear into many many different variants. Think of the guild camaraderie, no one fighting over a loot drop, all of them working for the crafting schems to give to their guild crafters. That's just one tiny little thing that could be done differently to make it mean something more.

 

 

As awesome as that sounds I wouldn't expect something like that to happen.

Edited January 9, 2012 by Chromiie

[Kazz]

What I get is that "progression" and "gear grind" are two completely separate things. Why are you so dead set against progression meaning anything other than "I'm a hardcore raider"? I'll never raid in this game. I have a very demanding, time consuming career. I have a baby on the way, I like rpgs and I like the social aspects of MMO's and I damn sure do not have to account for that to a hardcore raider. I damn sure should not have to put a game down simply because I can't raid...which is not progression. I'm not sure how else I can say it....A gear grind is not game progression. If you can't understand that then I imagine you have limited game experience, because you can progress in infinitely more ways than "+.0345% increase to crit or **** of the game".

 

Now, you'll excuse me if I ignore your attempted shut down about me "ranting" when your face is splashed all over this thread...the one I quoted originally being larger than mine put together. Quote me when you have something to contribute besides thinly veiled insults and hypocrisy.

 

Exactly...Why should I or anyone else who does not have 20hrs. or more a week to waste in this game or any game for that matter not get the same or comparable rewards?

 

I pay the same 14.99 a month you do.

 

I'm so sick and tired of the so called "LEET RAIDERZZ" running around lording over everyone else because they have no life.

 

Well, I have a life....and I think it's great that I can play this game when my schedule allows and still have a shot at the BEST gear and loot the game has to offer. With multiple avenue's for obtaining that gear. Without having to suffer thru boring as hell 20 to 40 man raids over and over again. With little to no chance at getting the loot or gear that I want.

 

As long as it stays that way...BW will keep getting my sub money every month. I'm here because I'm a Star Wars fan in all it's forms. Not for the WOW gear grind.

[SlyJeff]

Yes. Absolutely. Acquiring gear to me is solely for the purposes of beating content. I could care less what it looks like. Gear is a tool. I'm not interested in a fashion show.

 

Now, I have obviously offended some who want to look ...good? If you can have 'good looking' sets in game AND they are raid worthy great. BUT you shouldn't try to make the raid gear available to all since they want to look good. There is nothing wrong though with having esthetically pleasing gear for people who want to look good that is easily available but that shouldn't necessarily mean that it has the best stats.

 

The obvious solution here is to have people be able to earn cool looking oranges through whatever means they like- pvp/crafting/grinding dailies/raiding. Have them be purchasable through commendations. Then make the best pve mods drop from bosses and pvp mods earned through pvp.

 

If raids ONLY dropped mods that kept the raid grind going, would that keep everyone happy, or would raiders QQ about sharing their look and non-raiders QQ that they can't have the best stats? Probably they would, but it still seems like a good solution to me.

 

I will say, of all the doomsday stuff I've read on this forum, OP is the first that has given me pause. I am only level 34, but I plan to raid at 50 and I don't really want to level more toons. If I get all the available gear in a few weeks of hitting 50, I will get board really fast.

[sosolidshoe]

And then those people can play with the 5 other people on their server that are left because once the so hated "hardcores" leave, guilds fall apart and then people will start to leave because there isn't people to play with. Then more will leave because they can't get a decent flashpoint group together anymore. Then all that's left are the singleplayers, sitting in the imp fleet, showing off the gear you can buy for 10creds at a vendor for the last 2 weeks before servers shut down. Or it goes f2p (read: life support) for 6 months until all the spoiled brats have spent enough money to buy everything, including their characters, with real money and get bored of talking about how awesome it was to input credit card details to win the game. Then, the servers go down.

 

That's the scenario that has happened many times, and will happen many times. I wish people would get it into their self-entitled heads that you need long-term goals to keep people paying. Through traffic is just that, through traffic and will not sustain a game for more than a year or so until everyone has played for a month, done everything and moved on.

 

Oh please, if you hardcore numpties are less than 10% of the audience for the game, how does your departure doom it? Especially considered that you all sod-off anyway. Every single themepark title I've played has followed the same pattern; entitled raiding tossers roll in screaming "I WANT WOW2, GIMMIE WOW2, WAAAAAAAAAAH", then they move on to complaining about how easy everything is, and then they sod off back to WoW. There follows a period of blissful calm, until the first expansion pack rolls around, and they come back and repeat the same bloody cycle.

 

"Hardcore" players are locusts, moving from game to game devouring all the content, with the added disadvantage that your incessant droning is far more annoying than any swarm of insects. In addition, the idea that raiding is "hardcore" is a joke, it's a timesink certainly, but it isn't hardcore. The holocron grind in SWG, that was hardcore. 95% of EvE online(previously 99% but CCP made some sensible concessions), that's hardcore. Endlessly and mindlessly repeating the same content over and over and over in the vain hope that you might get the drop you want(if you roll high enough ofc, and if it doesn't get ninja'd, and if your raid leader isn't some "hardcore" dbag who uses Master Loot to pass all the decent stuff off to his mates), that isn't "hardcore" in any sense, it's just dull.

 

You know how MMO's used to retain players? Support roleplaying, intricate crafting systems, and loads of other stuff that you "hardcore" types continually deride as "fluff". I called you and your ilk entitled earlier, and I feel completely justified in that assertion, because you are; you demand EVERY MMO cater to your playstyle first, most, and always. On the rare occasions it doesn't, you strut around the forums declaring the game is a failure and won't last six months, and threaten to snatch back your toys and go home. You're Eric Cartman, essentially.

 

Now please will you all go away? That or just play the game and stop moaning for five minutes.

[Meiu]

Better the crafted gear at level 50.

All raid gear is purchased through commendations.

Better then quested gear at all levels while grinding to 50.

Dont even get me started on the welfare epics for pvp, that whole system is a complete joke.

 

When did this start? When did we remove the need to farm bosses and instances because we are going to get thrown commendations left right and center and buy everything. I remember when commendations where first introduced, back in WoW, the idea behind them was to act as a consolation prize. You are raiding daily, the random loot isnt working but you get tokens to buy some less then tier gear in the mean time so you dont feel cheated. It worked fine, that is how it is supposed to be.

 

With the current system, whether i do hard modes or raids it makes no difference, i know exactly what i am going to get. With such heavy reliance on commendations and tokens you guys have removed the whole reason raiders started to raid in the first place, the loot. Then just getting it, but the mystery surrounding it. The awe people have when you have this totally unique looking armor and they ask where you got it, and you can respond the last boss in X raid.

 

Im trying to figure out the reason i could careless about the full set of columni i currently have, and its because i could easily get it in hard modes as well as raiding.

 

For those of you who dont know, there are 4 sets of level 50 gear, and here is how it works.

 

Tier 1 - Energized, this is rating 124, you can easily negate it completely thanks to belsavis / ilum welfare epics from the dailies. Logically this set should be moved to Normal directive 7, false emperor and battle for ilum. Currently it is useless right out of the box.

 

Teir 2 - tionese rating 126, purchased with commendations, dropped in hard modes as full pieces, Kinda meh, i wore 1 piece of this, ear piece. I skipped the entire set otherwise

 

tier 3 - columni, rating 136, it drops as tokens throughout all the hard modes flashpoints, it drops as full pieces in operations on hard mode, Im currently full columni, minus the belt and bracers

 

tier 4 - rakata, rating 140, it drops as tokens through out all hard mode ops, full pieces on nightmare ops, it is also crafted. I have 2 pieces of this one at the moment, belt and bracers.

 

 

All of these by the way, LOOK EXACTLY THE SAME, there is no visual difference between rakata, tionese and columni gear beyond color.

 

 

There are no random drops, there are no special epics, you cant find malgus leggings, or Soa the infernal ones helmet or anything like that. The whole loot aspect of raids is removed, the whole reward system of raids is removed.

 

Black talon at level 1 has this, drops the black talon set, only drops in black talon and it is a unique looking set of armor, every flashpoint onward does this, then you get to hard mode and you are looking for the same set of gear across all 8 of them.

 

Bioware you need to go in and add unique loot tables to all these flashpoints, gear that only drops in these zones that are better thent eh commendation vendors, as they should be, you are farming these bosses, they should drop gear that is unique only to them, stop trying to change the raiding mold. With the current system, technically you never have to do eternity vault on normal or hard, you can get full columni in hard modes and jump right to the nightmare difficulty. There is no progression, no sense of accomplishment, and no sense of pride that comes from having a full set of hard earned raid epics. Bioware you missed capturing this feel, and you need to rethink the current system.

 

Saying welfare epics completely invalidates every point you have. Good gear from PvP has nothing to do with PvE.

[Mokilok]

Oh please, if you hardcore numpties are less than 10% of the audience for the game, how does your departure doom it? Especially considered that you all sod-off anyway. Every single themepark title I've played has followed the same pattern; entitled raiding tossers roll in screaming "I WANT WOW2, GIMMIE WOW2, WAAAAAAAAAAH", then they move on to complaining about how easy everything is, and then they sod off back to WoW. There follows a period of blissful calm, until the first expansion pack rolls around, and they come back and repeat the same bloody cycle.

 

"Hardcore" players are locusts, moving from game to game devouring all the content, with the added disadvantage that your incessant droning is far more annoying than any swarm of insects. In addition, the idea that raiding is "hardcore" is a joke, it's a timesink certainly, but it isn't hardcore. The holocron grind in SWG, that was hardcore. 95% of EvE online(previously 99% but CCP made some sensible concessions), that's hardcore. Endlessly and mindlessly repeating the same content over and over and over in the vain hope that you might get the drop you want(if you roll high enough ofc, and if it doesn't get ninja'd, and if your raid leader isn't some "hardcore" dbag who uses Master Loot to pass all the decent stuff off to his mates), that isn't "hardcore" in any sense, it's just dull.

 

You know how MMO's used to retain players? Support roleplaying, intricate crafting systems, and loads of other stuff that you "hardcore" types continually deride as "fluff". I called you and your ilk entitled earlier, and I feel completely justified in that assertion, because you are; you demand EVERY MMO cater to your playstyle first, most, and always. On the rare occasions it doesn't, you strut around the forums declaring the game is a failure and won't last six months, and threaten to snatch back your toys and go home. You're Eric Cartman, essentially.

 

Now please will you all go away? That or just play the game and stop moaning for five minutes.

 

 

This all god damn day long. You sir, win.

[Kazz]

Oh please, if you hardcore numpties are less than 10% of the audience for the game, how does your departure doom it? Especially considered that you all sod-off anyway. Every single themepark title I've played has followed the same pattern; entitled raiding tossers roll in screaming "I WANT WOW2, GIMMIE WOW2, WAAAAAAAAAAH", then they move on to complaining about how easy everything is, and then they sod off back to WoW. There follows a period of blissful calm, until the first expansion pack rolls around, and they come back and repeat the same bloody cycle.

 

"Hardcore" players are locusts, moving from game to game devouring all the content, with the added disadvantage that your incessant droning is far more annoying than any swarm of insects. In addition, the idea that raiding is "hardcore" is a joke, it's a timesink certainly, but it isn't hardcore. The holocron grind in SWG, that was hardcore. 95% of EvE online(previously 99% but CCP made some sensible concessions), that's hardcore. Endlessly and mindlessly repeating the same content over and over and over in the vain hope that you might get the drop you want(if you roll high enough ofc, and if it doesn't get ninja'd, and if your raid leader isn't some "hardcore" dbag who uses Master Loot to pass all the decent stuff off to his mates), that isn't "hardcore" in any sense, it's just dull.

 

You know how MMO's used to retain players? Support roleplaying, intricate crafting systems, and loads of other stuff that you "hardcore" types continually deride as "fluff". I called you and your ilk entitled earlier, and I feel completely justified in that assertion, because you are; you demand EVERY MMO cater to your playstyle first, most, and always. On the rare occasions it doesn't, you strut around the forums declaring the game is a failure and won't last six months, and threaten to snatch back your toys and go home. You're Eric Cartman, essentially.

 

Now please will you all go away? That or just play the game and stop moaning for five minutes.

 

QFT!!! I could not have said it better myself.

[Jandi]

What I get is that "progression" and "gear grind" are two completely separate things. Why are you so dead set against progression meaning anything other than "I'm a hardcore raider"? I'll never raid in this game. I have a very demanding, time consuming career. I have a baby on the way, I like rpgs and I like the social aspects of MMO's and I damn sure do not have to account for that to a hardcore raider. I damn sure should not have to put a game down simply because I can't raid...which is not progression. I'm not sure how else I can say it....A gear grind is not game progression. If you can't understand that then I imagine you have limited game experience, because you can progress in infinitely more ways than "+.0345% increase to crit or **** of the game".

 

Now, you'll excuse me if I ignore your attempted shut down about me "ranting" when your face is splashed all over this thread...the one I quoted originally being larger than mine put together. Quote me when you have something to contribute besides thinly veiled insults and hypocrisy.

 

Instead of saying, you should try reading. I know people like you can't think farther than their own little needs but please, why do you even post if you can't be bothered to take the time to comprehend what others are saying? So you don't have the time/desire to raid, ok, that's fine and understandable. Why shouldn't anyone else have the time, then, to raid either? And not *ONE* of you people have yet to make a SINGLE point why, EXACTLY, do you need raid gear? It looks exactly the same as the stuff you get from FP's. You just want stuff for no other reason than to have stuff, you're INSANE, do you realize that? The PvP gear looks nice but I don't PvP so I don't get it and I'm completely fine with that. I've never PvP'd, except in games like WAR where there is nothing else to do. I have no use for the PvP gear in wow, as I don't PvP.

 

Give me one good reason beyond "Cause I want it" why should non-raiders have raid gear? ONE! And the "It looks cool" isn't valid, it looks the same as dungeon gear.

[Sefrix]

That kind of min/maxing and mathematical simplification is what is wrong with this kind of end game. And just because people don't raid doesnt mean they don't deserve a challenge and the ability to meet it. The idea that I could sink months of my time and money into something only to be rendered useless by .2758% is not only insulting but borderline criminal. That is not what the end of these games should be. They should be about community building and game content and non raiders are in no way and should not in anyway be treated as inferior. With that kind of min maxing it makes everyone the same regardless of gear or anything else, it homogenizes play styles and makes playing the game pointless until a new piece of gear comes out that is what .00001% better? Pass on that thanks. But hey thanks for providing a differing opinion without just trolling. Good play.

 

Did you ever play CoH/CoV? Loved that game and they purposefully didn't give you a number value to attacks. It was just simply average or whatever. I loved that about the game as I could care less the actual number value and it made it to where I didn't have to focus on that. There was also no equipment which was great.

[Chromiie]

why do you even post if you can't be bothered to take the time to comprehend what others are saying?

 

Ha you should try that. And since I assume you didn't bother looking at my post even though you tried taking a jab at me I'll post it again.

 

 

LOL are you for real? This has to be a joke... you should take your own advice man.

 

Am I complaining about TOR being a progressive MMO? No. I'm complaining that Crafting isn't an alternative way to get BiS gear or even level 50 gear that's on par with the commendation gear. . If you think I'm wrong then please go check out the crafting forums because your dead wrong.

 

I'm not saying make Crew Skills like SWG (amazing) crafting system because it won't work in a themepark MMO but give us the ability to make gear that is on par with pvp and hardmode gear.

 

I think with SWG I spent a fair amount of time when not doing missions for cash was working on crafting skills because they were the only source of gear and experimentation and finding the best raw materials was the difference between an average item and a really good item.

 

Bioware said things like but it's just simply nothing like this.

 

http://massively.joystiq.com/2010/11/12/massively-interviews-bioware-on-swtors-crafting-and-pvp/

 

"I was always a huge crafting fan in all the different games. There were games that I was just a full-time crafter in; that was all I did. And what's great about crafting? The prestige is great, saying like, "Look, I can make these amazing things." The social aspect is amazing. I want people coming to me and saying, "Hey I heard you're the guy to do this." I want to be able to support my friends; I want to be able to do all this. The exploration and the complexity and learning the system is really fun -- I want to get deep into crafting, I want to learn how to do recipes that nobody else can do, I want to sort of master my system. The financial output, if it works well, is nice, right? Saying, "Hey, I'm actually good enough that I can make some money at this. I can do this piece.""

[HillbillySith]

Oh please, if you hardcore numpties are less than 10% of the audience for the game, how does your departure doom it? Especially considered that you all sod-off anyway. Every single themepark title I've played has followed the same pattern; entitled raiding tossers roll in screaming "I WANT WOW2, GIMMIE WOW2, WAAAAAAAAAAH", then they move on to complaining about how easy everything is, and then they sod off back to WoW. There follows a period of blissful calm, until the first expansion pack rolls around, and they come back and repeat the same bloody cycle.

 

"Hardcore" players are locusts, moving from game to game devouring all the content, with the added disadvantage that your incessant droning is far more annoying than any swarm of insects. In addition, the idea that raiding is "hardcore" is a joke, it's a timesink certainly, but it isn't hardcore. The holocron grind in SWG, that was hardcore. 95% of EvE online(previously 99% but CCP made some sensible concessions), that's hardcore. Endlessly and mindlessly repeating the same content over and over and over in the vain hope that you might get the drop you want(if you roll high enough ofc, and if it doesn't get ninja'd, and if your raid leader isn't some "hardcore" dbag who uses Master Loot to pass all the decent stuff off to his mates), that isn't "hardcore" in any sense, it's just dull.

 

You know how MMO's used to retain players? Support roleplaying, intricate crafting systems, and loads of other stuff that you "hardcore" types continually deride as "fluff". I called you and your ilk entitled earlier, and I feel completely justified in that assertion, because you are; you demand EVERY MMO cater to your playstyle first, most, and always. On the rare occasions it doesn't, you strut around the forums declaring the game is a failure and won't last six months, and threaten to snatch back your toys and go home. You're Eric Cartman, essentially.

 

Now please will you all go away? That or just play the game and stop moaning for five minutes.

 

You sir are my hero.

[Mokilok]

Instead of saying, you should try reading. I know people like you can't think farther than their own little needs but please, why do you even post if you can't be bothered to take the time to comprehend what others are saying? So you don't have the time/desire to raid, ok, that's fine and understandable. Why shouldn't anyone else have the time, then, to raid either? And not *ONE* of you people have yet to make a SINGLE point why, EXACTLY, do you need raid gear? It looks exactly the same as the stuff you get from FP's. You just want stuff for no other reason than to have stuff, you're INSANE, do you realize that? The PvP gear looks nice but I don't PvP so I don't get it and I'm completely fine with that. I've never PvP'd, except in games like WAR where there is nothing else to do. I have no use for the PvP gear in wow, as I don't PvP.

 

Give me one good reason beyond "Cause I want it" why should non-raiders have raid gear? ONE! And the "It looks cool" isn't valid, it looks the same as dungeon gear.

 

What did I tell you about quoting me when you have nothing but garbage to spew? Just because "I want it" isn't a good enough reason for little old you, doesn't mean it's a bad reason. If you would unchap your *** for 20 seconds I think you'd find that people could really care less about the "look" of the raid gear, it's the stat superiority. Sure, I'm not gonna spend months of my life and end up looking like a clown, and if that pisses you off that I can look good with a part time play style and you spend your weekends pulling your hair out for the millionth time in a raid to look as good then frankly...I do not care. If my reasons for wanting raid lvl gear don't meet your standards, I don't care. I pay the same as you, I should have access to competitive gear.

 

Obviously reason is not your strong suit, so I'm done trying to make logical points with you. I expect raid level gear, and I will get it, and I'm still going to have time to get laid every night. I hope you cry all night about it because it won't change. Anyone else who reads this thread will hopefully see that I tried to make some points with you, if not well hopefully they will debate with me more constructively than throwing a temper tantrum because their epeen feels threatened.

Edited January 9, 2012 by Mokilok

[zyconis]

Why is everything always about proving someone wrong? The OP is expressing a concern meant to address a severe issue among an extremely relevant fan base.

 

Is defining hardcore and casual really that important? Isn't there a mutual interest in having something that brings you back to the game over an extended time period?

 

I'm a "casual" player, I've never even played WoW. Even at level 29 I can see what these people are talking about. Why would people continue to subscribe if you can finish content in a month.

[Syylara]

With such heavy reliance on commendations and tokens you guys have removed the whole reason raiders started to raid in the first place, the loot.

 

I thought people enjoyed raiding for the experience of getting together with friends and accomplishing tasks together.

 

But kudos on making a thread demanding that you be given sole and exclusive access to rewards because of a subjective preference...you're only about 3-1/4 years late to the discussion (for this game).

[Jandi]

But... you CAN craft stuff that is equivalent to raid gear... you just need the patterns from raid bosses. As I said, you can craft few BiS items off the bat, just need an item that drops from hm flashpoints, but, no raiding required. SW can make Rakata gear off the bat, artificer can make BiS relics etc. The way the crrew skills are done in this game... assuming you honestly could just craft the best stuff with no loot drops is childish... ridiculous. It would completely and utterly make all FP's and PvP irrelevant to those who actually enjoy the progression system. Dude, you can craft using a PHONE while being offline.

[SlyJeff]

What I get is that "progression" and "gear grind" are two completely separate things. Why are you so dead set against progression meaning anything other than "I'm a hardcore raider"? I'll never raid in this game. I have a very demanding, time consuming career. I have a baby on the way, I like rpgs and I like the social aspects of MMO's and I damn sure do not have to account for that to a hardcore raider. I damn sure should not have to put a game down simply because I can't raid...which is not progression. I'm not sure how else I can say it....A gear grind is not game progression. If you can't understand that then I imagine you have limited game experience, because you can progress in infinitely more ways than "+.0345% increase to crit or **** of the game".

 

So what is the alternative to a gear grind? How else are they going to motivate players to keep playing the same content for 6 months while they create new content?

 

What form of "progression" are you thinking of that will enable developers to create content that will keep people busy while they work on the next content patch?

 

FWIW, I stopped playing WoW altogether when my wife got pregnant (I was running a casual raiding guild), so I understand where you're coming from- but now I have more free time to play so I want something to do with my game time. I don't plan on sleeping 3 hours so I can chew through content, but if you can get everyone geared through a handful of runs through a raid, even for someone like me I'm going to get bored very quickly when I finally get to 50.