PVP Video - OPeratives are OP

[Viconiuz]

Sure. I'd love to see. While you're at it, get a buddy or two against two or three other well-geared / skilled players and film that too, I'd like to see the result. Best 2 of 3?

 

I don't care about quality - I just want information.

 

Why don't YOU record some footage showing how extreamly underpowered they are instead?

[Plastic]

 

what was that?

 

inb4 sniper is the same thing as op.

 

then why can't i respec to operative?

[Plastic]

Why don't YOU record some footage showing how extreamly underpowered they are instead?

 

Sure. Because I totally said they're extremely underpowered. Just like you said how you're a hot girl, and will come over and make me a sandwich and soup and rub my stomach as I go to sleep and pass gas.

Edited January 8, 2012 by Plastic

[Nastar]

So yesterday I was reading the forums and noticed a huge amount of "nerf operatives" threads with a high volume of operatives posting "omg we're not OP, we're balanced".

 

That is a load of crap. I've been playing MMO's for 10 years and my operative is the most imbalanced character I've played in years.

 

I spent 2 hours yesterday gathering some videos and cut this YouTube video last night.

 

Enjoy...

 

 

You're one of the few operatives who dares to admit it, salute to you good sir!

[longbawl]

inb4 sniper is the same thing as op.

 

then why can't i respec to operative?

 

try...in before big numbers doesn't capture the point at all. you obviously lack simple powers of critical analysis.

 

a sniper dropping big numbers captures only a fraction of what an OP does. its like saying all cars are the same because they all have 4 wheels. one element of what makes the OP, well OP, is that it can drop big numbers yet at the same time doing so much more.

 

ah the distinct frustration of the internet.

 

Edit: do i even have to mention that it makes sense that an advanced class that can ONLY range dps should have pretty good ranged dps?

Edited January 8, 2012 by longbawl

[ChrisJSY]

 

RANT INCOMING!

 

 

 

Do this - go make a board game. Make it so theres group play and single play. Then make sure all of that the group play is balanced through-out, and single play is balanced-through out. That no class/whatever is better than the other in group and single. Try it. Send me the rulebook so I can play too. Send others the rule-book. Send BioWare the rulebook. I'd love to see it - I truely would.

 

tl;dr: Balance is hard. True balance is impossible. There will always be FOTM, there will always be powerful classes in 1v1s. That is why no MMO is designed for it. Operative is a strong class - yes - but lets see it in an actual competitive field - not a PUG VS premade.

 

I understand what you're saying, I also came into this game expecting it not to be balanced for 1v1, but I can still say it's a bad idea.

 

By the way, what you suggested, other people get paid full time wages and build a career on it, I do not. There's no way on this planet I'd ever do what you suggested for free or in my spare time for giggles, however as mentioned already there are competent enough people with experience who can.

 

Problem is when you've released a game, established a playerbase and charged people money it's hard to go back, so yeah I know, they can never balance for 1v1 in this game anymore, it would be an apocalyptically bad idea.

 

They should have done it from the ground up, spend some of the cash on a few less voice actors (Use the same ones like they have already doing different voices!) and paid people to simply make...wait what am I saying? They can't even get talent trees mirrored properly without giving one double the bonus than the other has (it's known, it's a bug, but it's been there for over a year) so yeah.

 

I lack faith in a developer when simple proof reading is overshadowed.

I'm talking about mirrored talents which are incorrect and double the bonuses are given to one class over the other and left like that for actual, factual, months. (I'm not perfect either but nobody looks over my work)

[Plastic]

try...in before big numbers doesn't capture the point at all. you obviously lack simple powers of critical analysis.

 

a sniper dropping big numbers captures only a fraction of what an OP does. its like saying all cars are the same because they all have 4 wheels. one element of what makes the OP, well OP, is that it can drop big numbers while doing so much more.

 

ah the distinct frustration of the internet.

 

And sniper can't? Whats the difference inbetween a straight 6k crit and a 5k crit ambush and a 1k crit with explosive probe? Funny thing is, Snipers 6k~ crit opener can be done WITHOUT filling resolve bars and can be followed up with Follow-thru and another 3k~ Snipe ... And you barely even got close enough to blow a kiss at me. Pop Entrench and what do we get?

 

And NO one says anything about Snipers. Not one.

 

probably because they broke line of sight.

 

So, I ask you, what -exactly- is the difference inbetween the video I gave you and the video provided to me? He does it in melee? Please. I give you a class that can do what Operative does, and you neglect it. *shrug*

 

ah the distinct frustration of the internet.

[Jayton]

And sniper can't? Whats the difference inbetween a straight 6k crit and a 5k crit ambush and a 1k crit with explosive probe? Funny thing is, Snipers 6k~ crit opener can be done WITHOUT filling resolve bars and can be followed up with Follow-thru and another 3k~ Snipe ... And you barely even got close enough to blow a kiss at me. Pop Entrench and what do we get?

 

And NO one says anything about Snipers. Not one.

 

probably because they broke line of sight.

 

So, I ask you, what -exactly- is the difference inbetween the video I gave you and the video provided to me? He does it in melee? Please. I give you a class that can do what Operative does, and you neglect it. *shrug*

 

ah the distinct frustration of the internet.

 

becasue your 9k 3 second opener without stunning me gives me a chance to get in your face. the 12-15k an op can do in the 3 second complete stun doenst give me a snowballs chance in hell if i cant get out of the stun. YOUR NOT OP and infact you have less CC than a operative so i can get on you easier and rip you apart and your close ranged dmg abilites mean nothing like a ops does.

[Payneintherear]

pretty sure its backpeddle....unless OP was in a boat and i missed it.

 

 

Back-pedal.

[Plastic]

becasue your 9k 3 second opener without stunning me gives me a chance to get in your face. the 12-15k an op can do in the 3 second complete stun doenst give me a snowballs chance in hell if i cant get out of the stun. YOUR NOT OP and infact you have less CC than a operative so i can get on you easier and rip you apart and your close ranged dmg abilites mean nothing like a ops does.

 

 

My 9k 3 second opener also knocks you back if you get close. Leg shot then lol....

 

Can't force jump over walls. Can't CC while a Sniper is Entrenched. I use Leg Shot, you pop your CC breaker, I'm @ 1.5s on Ambush. You get close enough for Heavy Shot to kick in. I still have flash bang, evasion, stun, and cover pulse up with my CC breaker.

 

;\ What?

[Nightfocus]

Dude , Operatives aint Op , open ur eyes ltp.

 

That guy does that dmg cause he s 50 he has his gear etc

 

And if u look at the targets they are all under 40 or most ...

 

So its a bit NORMAL , a Jedi Knight twohitted me last time , i cant twohit , anyone , im 36 Operative , Ye the dmg is higher even in Warzones for 50s ... but its cause they dont put Brackets

 

Go whine somewhere else little kid , the classes are balanced

 

The 50s he s killing , is in hmm around 7/8 hits , Anyone lvl 50 can do it , every class ... lvl up baby

Edited January 8, 2012 by Nightfocus

[longbawl]

And sniper can't? Whats the difference inbetween a straight 6k crit and a 5k crit ambush and a 1k crit with explosive probe? Funny thing is, Snipers 6k~ crit opener can be done WITHOUT filling resolve bars and can be followed up with Follow-thru and another 3k~ Snipe ... And you barely even got close enough to blow a kiss at me. Pop Entrench and what do we get?

 

And NO one says anything about Snipers. Not one.

 

probably because they broke line of sight.

 

So, I ask you, what -exactly- is the difference inbetween the video I gave you and the video provided to me? He does it in melee? Please. I give you a class that can do what Operative does, and you neglect it. *shrug*

 

ah the distinct frustration of the internet.

 

if the only difference you can see is the difference between the range of combat between the two videos then there is no point is continuing any conversation.

 

you're comparing apples to oranges with the only commonality being they are fruit, and expect me to see them as the same. there is are plenty of reasons people don't complain as much about snipers...... a sniper is essentially immobile, has long casts, cannot heal, is always visable, los-able, easily overwhelmed, i could go on if i further researched their differences but that should be enough to make the point.

 

the attributes of an OP should be apparent in their advantage over a sniper. so yes, take sniper dmg but then add a whole lot more.

[Jayton]

Dude , Operatives aint Op , open ur eyes ltp.

 

That guy does that dmg cause he s 50 he has his gear etc

 

And if u look at the targets they are all under 40 or most ...

 

So its a bit NORMAL , a Jedi Knight twohitted me last time , i cant twohit , anyone , im 36 Operative , Ye the dmg is higher even in Warzones for 50s ... but its cause they dont put Brackets

 

Go whine somewhere else little kid , the classes are balanced

 

The 50s he s killing , is in hmm around 7/8 hits , Anyone lvl 50 can do it , every class ... lvl up baby

 

im level 50 with pvp gear and still get hit like that.. and as for the sniper.. your not op... and no your shot doesnt knock me down infact ive never been knocked down to my knowlege by a sniper. infact i love hitting snipers because i almost always win that fight....

[HeyImTempzz]

I lol'd reading the posts. people talking about how there "Glad solid proof is out" haha what a joke, he was killing people with NO expertise, some of them 20 levels + lower than him... Its laughable how you think that this shows that there OP....

 

The only dencentish geared player you killed, was a BAD/HORRID/TERABAD Jedi, who poped no trinket, or any real defensives... thats just poor..

[Stranger_LDR]

Rank 52 tank/dps (with decent stealth ofc) spec shadow here. 80% of items are champion grade, rest are lvl 50 epix.

I have no chance surviving same geared operative jump.

I have a chance to kill one if he/she is a) lower lvl b) much much worse gear c) afk d) I have guard (which I don't since I'm guarding myself) and healer.

 

Even with OTHER PPL BASHING operative, I have no chance to stay alive against same geared operative.

 

If operatives wanna do that kind of damage:

 

a) move them into cloth users with 15-18% dmg reducing max.

b) remove at least 20% of their hp (having 18k hp and doing 6k opener is bullballs)

 

that way, you keep your burst but others will have a chance killing you.

 

But that way noobs that accidently rolled the OP char will start crying. You can see one crying already, claiming he's a sniper ^_^

 

 

P.S. I don't care about your opinion, coz a) I'm too old for that b) I'm too pro for you.

 

End of Story.

[Plastic]

if the only difference you can see is the difference between the range of combat between the two videos then there is no point is continuing any conversation.

 

you're comparing apples to oranges with the only commonality being they are fruit, and expect me to see them as the same. there is are plenty of reasons people don't complain as much about snipers...... a sniper is essentially immobile, has long casts, cannot heal, is always visable, los-able, easily overwhelmed, i could go on if i further researched their differences but that should be enough to make the point.

 

the attributes of an OP should be apparent in their advantage over a sniper. so yes, take sniper dmg but then add a whole lot more.

 

And Operatives can't be stunned, interrupted, overwhelmed, death-gripped and poisoned.. and their vanish makes them totally immune to all damage until they break stealth, right?

 

Ops kb fills resolve bar, ambush takes 3 seconds to cast. *shrug*

 

if the only comeback you have to a guy that provides you with information that applies is to put the blame on me not seeing your different and don't give any information on what IS the difference besides saying the complete obvious like 'i can attack you' - then it just makes you look like an idiot. Sorry.

 

I'm compared an orange to an orange. Burst class does burst damage. Snipers can do the burst that Operatives do - just in a somewhat different fashion. Operatives KB then you're dead. Snipers wait 3 seconds, then you're dead. Put both in a situation where they shine - A guy whose alone / with pants down or a guy who isn't paying attention / focused on someone else - and they'll shine.

 

It's also funny how only a FEW people saw my reasons for even POSTING on this thing.

 

LETS SEE FIFTY ONLY. THEN DROP THE ADJUSTMENTS. OPERATIVES ARE A STRONG CLASS - BUT AGAINST OTHER WELL GEARED / SKILLED PLAYERS? LETS SEE.

 

YES: He trashed lv50s in the video. BUT He barely made it out alive sometimes and he caught people with their pants down. DOING what he's suppose to do a lot of the time.

 

YES: Operatives are a strong class. But TOR isn't even NEAR a competitive field to see how TRULY strong they are. You can't even pick a Warzone yet. Level 50s are fighting Level 25s. Bolster system is a joke.

 

YES: Operatives do things some classes can't. But that's the problem in creating X when you have Y.

 

Can I be WRONG when fifty drops? YES .. But lets SEE

 

Screaming OP against Operatives/Scoundrels right now when the whole PVP system is a joke and not even fully matured yet is just idiotic. Because if they nerf Op/Sc and level 50 brackets hit and Op/Sc no longer is competitive ... Thats just a TERRIBLE combination.

 

My question to you guys: Have you ever got the jump on an Operative? Caught him/ her out of stealth with their pants down? ... What happens?

Edited January 8, 2012 by Plastic

[Stranger_LDR]

LETS SEE FIFTY ONLY. THEN DROP THE ADJUSTMENTS. OPERATIVES ARE A STRONG CLASS - BUT AGAINST OTHER WELL GEARED / SKILLED PLAYERS? LETS SEE.

 

No tnx. Last time I saw a gimp bolding red letters etc was playing a pyro mage in Rift, defending the GoS mechanics.

 

I'm playing today and by the time patch comes out and BW might take a look at the balance the game becomes too old.

 

Either they tone the damage of Op/Sco and consumables down, or ppl will move on.

With SWTOR having the fastest growing customer population, it will be the fastest to lose customers too.

Edited January 8, 2012 by Stranger_LDR

[longbawl]

LETS SEE FIFTY ONLY. THEN DROP THE ADJUSTMENTS. OPERATIVES ARE A STRONG CLASS - BUT AGAINST OTHER WELL GEARED / SKILLED PLAYERS? LETS SEE.

 

The louder and more red your text the more right you are....

 

Edited January 8, 2012 by longbawl

[longbawl]

Rank 52 tank/dps (with decent stealth ofc) spec shadow here. 80% of items are champion grade, rest are lvl 50 epix.

I have no chance surviving same geared operative jump.

I have a chance to kill one if he/she is a) lower lvl b) much much worse gear c) afk d) I have guard (which I don't since I'm guarding myself) and healer.

 

Even with OTHER PPL BASHING operative, I have no chance to stay alive against same geared operative.

 

If operatives wanna do that kind of damage:

 

a) move them into cloth users with 15-18% dmg reducing max.

b) remove at least 20% of their hp (having 18k hp and doing 6k opener is bullballs)

 

that way, you keep your burst but others will have a chance killing you.

 

But that way noobs that accidently rolled the OP char will start crying. You can see one crying already, claiming he's a sniper ^_^

 

 

P.S. I don't care about your opinion, coz a) I'm too old for that b) I'm too pro for you.

 

End of Story.

 

sounds like lvl 50 combat to me....

[Jambert]

OP are indeedn far too bursty, but if you survive the initial lockdown they run out of ideas and tend to have to try and restealth.

 

I'm darkness spec hybrid for PvP, rolling full Champ gear and have 20k HP, If I don't have Unbreakable Will off CD when I get locked down by a decent geared OP I am down to 30% in about 4 seconds. If you think thats "ok" then I think your slightly deluded.

 

Even the OP I play with thinks it's too much, but outside of this burst they don't have much to go with.

[Plastic]

The louder and more red your text the more right you are....

 

Just making sure kids can see it instead of having selective reading and cherry picking and drawing their own conclusion off a butchered idea of my reasoning....

 

kinda like how you've been doing this whole time.

 

lolz derp i meakz wity ceombcks crs i liek 2 serms smurt und is gt nttin elz 2 sy.

 

 

good job, bro. you're an excellent human being with a well developed train of thought and I wish you the best in your life and after. may the force be with you.

 

#done.

[Stranger_LDR]

Btw and 6:23 of the video you can see how operative destroys LVL50 dps speced assassin almost before he comes out of stun.

 

Not OP, no?

Edited January 9, 2012 by Stranger_LDR

[Plastic]

Btw and 6:23 of the video you can see how operative destroys LVL50 dps speced shadow almost before he comes out of stun.

 

Not OP, no?

 

 

he was caught with his pants down, no shield, and is a cloth class - low physical mitigation to begin with.

 

lets say he lived, came out with 50%~ hp. Woot. Okay, put the same situation but instead of him opening up on a shadow, he opens up on a Juggernaut, or a Commando, or a BH.....

 

i think we've been through this before?

[longbawl]

Just making sure kids can see it instead of having selective reading and cherry picking and drawing their own conclusion off a butchered idea of my reasoning....

 

kinda like how you've been doing this whole time.

 

lolz derp i meakz wity ceombcks crs i liek 2 serms smurt und is gt nttin elz 2 sy.

 

 

good job, bro. you're an excellent human being with a well developed train of thought and I wish you the best in your life and after. may the force be with you.

 

#done.

 

if i wasn't embarrassed for you before, i certainly am now.

[HeroicSock]

And Operatives can't be stunned, interrupted, overwhelmed, death-gripped and poisoned.. and their vanish makes them totally immune to all damage until they break stealth, right?

 

And other classes can't be stunned, interrupted, overwhelmed, death-gripped and poisoned, and have a vanish / AoE 8 second Blind getaway. The fact is, Operatives are imbalanced, can demolish an entire team without healing with the tiniest amount of skill and nuke down 1 player with ease with absolutely no skill required.

 

Look at me I can say 'Burst Class does Burst Damage'. Yeah, cool, that would be fine if it didn't really mean; Burst Class kills in 3-4 globals, has stealth, the best incapacitate in the game, heals, a vanish and decimates all other classes 1on1.

 

Name one other class that gets 5k crits with an ability that stuns them for 3 seconds / and or a skill that's free and hits for 2k and crits for 3.5k? Oh wait, none of them even come close. I'm sick to death of people defending a broken and retardedly OP class, they're even worse than Sorcerors.

 

It's also funny how only a FEW people saw my reasons for even POSTING on this thing.

 

Yes, you're an operative who doesn't want the nerf bat.

 

So Bioware, congrats on a great game, but don't let losers like the Plastic detract from the fact that this class needs balancing. Not neutering, but nerfbatting.