PVP Video - OPeratives are OP

[HeyImTempzz]

People are still complaining about this. EVEN THOUGH people of diffrent classes have said they have no problem with OPS. DEFO L2P Issue..

 

 

Why dont you roll Biochem.. get rattaka medpac..

 

 

Drops you to 6k + R.medpac = 12k+ then you get another 2k HoT on you... pop a defensive, stun and faceroll the operative... xD you guys are so blinded by your inability to play it astounds me.

[BDutch]

You may have missed my point, so I'll clarify. If you get jumped by an Op then you know that the 15s armor pen buff is coming, and then your strategy is:

 

• Kite the Op
  
• Survive the 15s
  
• Avoid positional attacks
  

 

A bad player will do none of those and advocate nerfs regardless of the armor pen buff potency or stim buffs.

 

 

P.S. I played a rogue too for 4+ years.

 

I don't think the armor pen is the problem, given that the highest armor classes are the ones that currently have the least trouble with operatives, however... You realize there is no cooldown on the armor pen and you can reapply it with every backstab, right? Also, it's not difficult to get a positional attack off on someone in this game, especially when they constantly have a 50% snare on them. Just saying.

[G-Seven]

I don't think the armor pen is the problem, given that the highest armor classes are the ones that currently have the least trouble with operatives, however... You realize there is no cooldown on the armor pen and you can reapply it with every backstab, right? Also, it's not difficult to get a positional attack off on someone in this game, especially when they constantly have a 50% snare on them. Just saying.

 

Classes that can't kite are going to have the hardest time countering an Op, but every class should have a counter and PvP is balanced for group play or so I've read.

 

I do however think Acid Blade needs to be adjusted based on level 50 evidence from skilled players after stim buffs have been balanced.

[big_aug]

Classes that can't kite are going to have the hardest time countering an Op, but every class should have a counter and PvP is balanced for group play or so I've read.

 

I do however think Acid Blade needs to be adjusted based on level 50 evidence from skilled players after stim buffs have been balanced.

 

Acid blade has little or nothing to do with our burst damage. If you think it does, you really have no clue about the class and shouldn't be asking for any changes for any part of the class. I could care less if I had acid blade or not. The only reason I don't drop it is becuase there isn't a hybrid spec I'd care to 28/13 or something similar for.

 

It's all crit/surge.

Edited January 9, 2012 by big_aug

[Dirtydurst]

People are still complaining about this. EVEN THOUGH people of diffrent classes have said they have no problem with OPS. DEFO L2P Issue..

 

 

Why dont you roll Biochem.. get rattaka medpac..

 

 

Drops you to 6k + R.medpac = 12k+ then you get another 2k HoT on you... pop a defensive, stun and faceroll the operative... xD you guys are so blinded by your inability to play it astounds me.

 

Because countering a class that is "balanced" or "well designed" means you should be pigeon holed into taking a single profession and always having your CC break available for them. Makes sense.

[HeyImTempzz]

Because countering a class that is "balanced" or "well designed" means you should be pigeon holed into taking a single profession and always having your CC break available for them. Makes sense.

 

If all classes was equaly as good... itd be boring..

[Dirtydurst]

If all classes was equaly as good... itd be boring..

 

What? My point is that the class is poorly designed.

[G-Seven]

Acid blade has little or nothing to do with our burst damage. If you think it does, you really have no clue about the class and shouldn't be asking for any changes for any part of the class. I could care less if I had acid blade or not. The only reason I don't drop it is becuase there isn't a hybrid spec I'd care to 28/13 or something similar for.

 

It's all crit/surge.

 

I agree that stacking crit/surge is a bigger issue, but the armor pen buff synergy is definitely helpful.

[Viconiuz]

I'm still waiting to see the Operative video where he destroys everyone in a good group with a guarded healer, tank, and 2 smart DPS. Where is that video?

 

Yeah, where's that video?! The one of an operative killing a full 4-man group without breaking a sweat. Only THEN is a class overpowered.

 

I stopped watching at about the 2:15 mark after you fought your first 50, a Juggernaut, that didn't even slow you once. GG bad. Show us video of you fighting someone with half a brain.

 

Oh yeah, that's a good point. Putting up a slow-effect right before you get taken from 100 to 0 in a matter of a few seconds makes a huge difference. Especially vs a class that stays within melee range anyway. You're pro.

Edited January 9, 2012 by Viconiuz

[Dirtydurst]

It's really simple, give them more sustained damage and a gap closer then lower the front loaded burst damage.

 

Thanks Bioware, fixed the class.

[HeyImTempzz]

What? My point is that the class is poorly designed.

 

Its not poorly designed. Heavy out of stealth damage, which you survive. you then have to work to win the fight.

You talk like you are the only thing to pop CD's and that we are invincible to everything.

 

> Open on Sage.

> Trinket Knockback.

> Rooted = No Damage

> Have no real defensives

> Telekinetic Throw Slows us

> Reach the Sage at half hp.

> full dots on me and therefore cant re-stealth

> No burst = slow to break through absorb sheild

> no chance of winning the fight...

 

Good sage kills Ops every time.

[Dirtydurst]

Its not poorly designed. Heavy out of stealth damage, which you survive. you then have to work to win the fight.

You talk like you are the only thing to pop CD's and that we are invincible to everything.

 

> Open on Sage.

> Trinket Knockback.

> Rooted = No Damage

> Have no real defensives

> Telekinetic Throw Slows us

> Reach the Sage at half hp.

> full dots on me and therefore cant re-stealth

> No burst = slow to break through absorb sheild

> no chance of winning the fight...

 

Good sage kills Ops every time.

 

The fact that a good sage kills you "every time" makes my case. The class is poorly designed. No one class should kill you every time, no contest; as you've pointed out here.

[Stormbad]

I'm a 43 Concealment Operative on a PvP server and I DESTROY players in world PvP and Warzones. I open up with hidden strike, then backstab, then lacerate, lacerate then shiv. Then if they survive and run, I will pin down, stim, then backstab, shiv, lacerate. That's usually enought to kill them.

 

I've done this to equal levels + 3 above my level. In warzones, I do this to 50s as well. I LOVE my OP on how well he can kill players, although PvE is about on par with other classes.

 

Wait for it......

 

The reason this happens becuase people suck at PvP. Let me point out some facts that nobody seemed to get so far, except a few in this thread.

 

1. Gear does not make you good at PvP. Getting PvP gear in this game is easier than PvE gear. You can casually PvP for a week and get fully geared out. Any moron can do this. You can lose every warzone and make it to highest valor rank. It DOES NOT TAKE SKILL TO GET GEAR. I love when I hear people say "I got l33t pvp gear and rank 9000 valor, listen to me because i got skillz"

 

Gear does contribute to your PvP and PvE, that is a fact. It is a contributor.

 

2. MMOPvP. Yup, massively multiplayer online PvP. Massively... multiplayer.... pvp. So if people haven't figured it out, each class has roles to play. The more specialized you pigeonhole your trees, the better you are at the specific role at the cost of some versatility. This is the min/max theory. You want to solo everything? You must give and take some abilities to become good at everything but master of none. You roll in a group and want to maximize your job potential? You max out everything to what you specifically do and the group becomes extremely effective.

 

So, why does every class want to be the MAX at 1v1? Let's see, there are better MAX healers, better MAX tank, hell even better MAX damage, better MAX cc? Look at the OP. He is specced MAX into 1v1. That is all he can do. In a group setting, he fulfills his job duty VERY well. I guarantee you his heals are doing 1.5k normal and 2.5k crits and takes 2.5 seconds to cast. His channeled heals can do 100 per second for 3 seconds and upwards of 160 a second per crit. His opener is so powerful, it fills the enemy resolve so his debilitate and flashbang is useless.

 

The point is that, I don't see a single post about how OPs specced into 1v1 (concealment) complains that a sorc or bh specced into healing is out healing them in PvP. Every class is average at doing everything but exceptional at their roles if they max. It just so happens that an OP can MAX 1v1.

 

3. What makes a good PvPer? BRAINS!!!! Someone who has situational awareness as well as intimate knowledge of how every class works and how to instantly recognize buffs, stims and debuffs. Someone who understands positioning and line of sight. Someone who understands enemy skills and intentions. Someone who understands they need distance from a close range melee. I've killed Commandos simply because they choose to stand there and spam their attacks. Not a single knockback or CC was even used. Hello people, here's a pro tip. Stun the OP, then when he uses his breaker, slow him then kite him to death. There is nothing he can do. He has 1 decent attack that goes beyond 10m but his bread and butter high burst attacks are completely inneffective.

 

I don't even consider myself a great pvper. I might be at the top 90%. There are still people who can destroy me even level. But those pvpers have finely honed pvp senses. They understand my skills and knows my weaknesses. If I get LUCKY, I might kill them but if everything is normal, I get destroyed. When they see me cleanse myself and start running, they instantly react and put on a dot so I break out of my stealth. They kill me and they aren't even 1v1 classes. I've been killed by good players of almost every class.

 

So the point of my post is that I destroy people in PvP but I do so because I'm generally much more aware and understand every class skill, strengths and weaknesses. I even destroy scoundrels. I freqnently fight people who seem to panic and don't even pop a medpac, comeone, really??? And I want to guarantee my win so I pop every stim, consumable and relic to make sure the fight is over within 15 seconds or I know I WILL DIE.

 

I do find the rare PvPer who can destroy me because they are simply better than me. But for the most part. I would say over 80% of the population, they JUST SUCK AT PvP.

 

TLDR; People suck at PvP, gear does not make you good PvP, brains make you good PvP.

[Vyeth]

Same ol EZ mode build.. Come on guys, you don't know OP's.. They have 3 trees to spec... You blame the whole class when it is ONE candy spec thats making you cry every night..

 

Conceal with lacerate and the Jarring Strike perk are the only things you guys are scared of..

 

A lethality or medic OP? You guys LOL while killing them with your flashy sabers, lightning and chokes...

 

They have one beast spec and 2 laughable ones and you guys are crying for nerfs? Bogus bros..

 

(And yes, every video I have seen have all been of the same flavor spec.. Show me a lethality or medic spec that wrecks face like this and I will agree for a blanket nerf of Operatives.. Till then please calm this down..)

[HeyImTempzz]

The fact that a good sage kills you "every time" makes my case. The class is poorly designed. No one class should kill you every time, no contest; as you've pointed out here.

 

If they removed counter classes for PvP there would be no competertive PvP... everyone would be runnign what nhits hardest isntead of which classes have best synergy...

[Countryfiedjedi]

Are we watching the same vid? I saw him blowing up several lvl 50 champion geared sentinels and smugglers (medium armor) as well as a couple of lvl 50 troopers and knights.

 

The only classes that stood a chance when he got his full combo off were either guarded or had popped their defensive cooldowns.

 

And even though lvl 50 brackets have been announced, I don't see how bursting down 2-3 lvl 40+ opponents while retaining 75% of your health is ok. Granted, that might have been an optimal situation with nothing going wrong, but still.

 

Burst is ok, but this is a bit too bursty, especially because the OP seemed able to repeat said burst again and again.

 

Anytime he actually killed a 50, they were already damaged, (which means they probably used their cooldowns last fight), or he was getting help on damage from other sources.

 

Early on, in his 2nd fight against a 50, he gets the drop on him, and the 50 is able to recover, and fight back... making the Operative have to run around a corner and go heal. Yeah, he totally owned that 50!.

 

Everyone else in that video that was below level 50, you can just ignore all that.

[ursusarctus]

 

 

NERF

 

 

NERF

 

 

NERF

 

 

 

and ...

 

 

 

NERF

[Stormbad]

^ Ahaha, why put up the video that has strange and wierd anomalies instead of remaking one when there isn't anything strange going on? This was a duel, you can duel a bazillion times over and over again. You just HAD to put the one that lagged on hidden strike so it looked like 4 attacks happened in a split second then showing the OP run off like he had some speed hack on?

 

Again, LOL.

[longgrassgrows]

People only see what they want to see. There are quite a few 50s in this movie. Next time enable it so we can see what their HP is. That helps judge the level of their gear.

 

What's really interesting about this are the number of times where your TTK is so short that no one puts you in combat, so you can just restealth, rinse, and repeat.

 

The times where you do get put in combat, you can vanish.

 

i have 15k and i get OWNED by this move...not instant...but if it is a good ops, easily 25% health

Edited January 9, 2012 by longgrassgrows

[Jayton]

I am pretty much done argueing this issue.. The people that play the class love the dmg and refuse to admit they are over powered. Then you have the people that dont understand how fast they can deal 17k dmg and get away clean and do it again 5 seconds later. Then you also have the people that are just ignorant to the fact or probably havent been gibed by a 50 in 6 seconds yet and try to argue against the issue. The facts are in the numbers and the confirmed numbers are below take it or leave it its still more dmg i can do even under best possible conditions for my character in 6 seconds and I play an assassin type class.

 

5500 HS Crit (0 seconds)

4200 Backstab Crit (1.5 seconds)

2000 Shiv (3.0 seconds)

1500 Lacerate (4.5 seconds)

1500 Lacerate + 1000 Lacerate proc (50% proc rate) (6.0 seconds)

+ 2000 Acid Blade DoT

 

= 17,700 damage in 6 seconds... oh and did I mention the stun on my opener lasted for half of that time?

 

above is the dmg posted BY AN OPERATIVE and it was done to a level 50 in pvp gear non the less.. any further contesting the issue is pointless. I have played my scoundrel and I am not level 50 on him yet but I can almost do the same amount of dmg. So anyone who says any different doesnt know what the hell they are talking about. Yes when you are not in stealth you will die.. if you can manager your stealth/combat you can pretty much kill a person every 10-15 seconds and get away clean to move to next target.

[Airees]

I am pretty much done argueing this issue.. The people that play the class love the dmg and refuse to admit they are over powered. Then you have the people that dont understand how fast they can deal 17k dmg and get away clean and do it again 5 seconds later. Then you also have the people that are just ignorant to the fact or probably havent been gibed by a 50 in 6 seconds yet and try to argue against the issue. The facts are in the numbers and the confirmed numbers are below take it or leave it its still more dmg i can do even under best possible conditions for my character in 6 seconds and I play an assassin type class.

 

Bolded part is really only the "OP" thing. I play a merc and I have popped people in champion/battlemaster within the 4 seconds of my stun. I can however not do that over and over. The way I see it Acid Blade needs a cooldown, that way they could still have the burst when needed, but it would reduce their repeated lethality.

Edited January 9, 2012 by Airees

[GameTwine]

yea. I couldnt see well enough but the video seems op.

 

 

What my biggest concern is the whole biochem fiasco/expertise buffs all this bullcrap needs to be removed or sanctioned to pve.

 

I have a feeling that a lot of the OPness comes from a mixture of the classes and consumables. I mean OP is overpowered without them but with them any class can reck in full champ gear.

[riedeas]

^ Ahaha, why put up the video that has strange and wierd anomalies instead of remaking one when there isn't anything strange going on? This was a duel, you can duel a bazillion times over and over again. You just HAD to put the one that lagged on hidden strike so it looked like 4 attacks happened in a split second then showing the OP run off like he had some speed hack on?

 

Again, LOL.

you forgot to add the gear changeing that happens

[Kiyasu]

I'll point out that this threads title is Operative are OP. Which means any discussion here is blatantly biased and can't be considered credible.

 

I don't have an opinion on the matter either way really. I play a powertech pyro and I can burst much like an op and often finish with over 500k damage but I guess since I dont stun people don't care

 

But if you want to prove the statement find roughly.... 2 dozen un edited videos of operatives playing with and with out consumable. Along with another 2 dozen videos of other players combating operatives. All parties need to be 50 and relatively similar gear. With over 1,000,000 players that shouldn't be difficult if it really is such a glaring fact? I'm asking for a total of 48 videos that are unedited and show unbiased fact gathering. Can even be from the same few people. Even if it is 48 different people that's .000048% of the player base. Not asking for much.

 

I feel like the majority of this issue is probably consumables being overpowered and OPs/Scoundrels benefiting more than most from that. I can demolish 3 people easily as a powertech and come out strong thanks to my tankiness myself if I use consumables, and I'm no super pro but I easily win 75% of my 1v1s.

[ChrisJSY]

you forgot to add the gear changeing that happens

 

You have to remember that when you inspect someone, you don't always see purple items that are crafted with extra mods/critted properly, and when you inspect someone who vanishes it will do that.

 

Try it yourself.

 

Slower PC's will locked up like that but a little quicker when not recording.