Tommyjc Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Great example of the WoW generation. "Raiders will not be ok" This is exactly what I'm talking about. So sad. Are you dumb? Not only is everything you say the same exact thing, and illogical, you put no actual thought into what you read or your response, i was saying they won't be ok with it, as in DURRR THEY WILL NOT LIKE IT DURR, to be put in your language, as in, they'll be inclined to go to a game that does. I personally no EA wouldn't allow that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yfelsung Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 You aren't playing at all. You are following instructions. You want to remove the part where you learn to play. You're a wuss really. You fear losing so much that you're willing to deny yourself the experience of learning. You want to skip to the end. Hopefully they will not allow this. What instructions am I following? RECOUNT DOES NOT TELL YOU WHAT ABILITIES TO USE. It only tells you what abilities you did use. I am a Juggernaut, and a tank, I do not have a perfect rotation, I have a priority list. Recount doesn't tell me how to play, it only tells me how well or poorly I am playing. Beating the boss isn't enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jpope Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I'm a Jedi Knight. I base all my decisions on premonition, prophecy, feeling, and the force. I have no need for a damage meter or a recount meter because you know...Jedi intuition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vespertilius Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) I do NOT support a version of recount. 1. It's not needed for hardcore players. Hardcore players are generaly smart and very hardcore, they will find a way anyway to mesure their performances and improve rotations and such. 2. For bad players and casual players, Recount was only beeing used either to mock others, and brag their own performance, or to be the target of mockery by others. 3. DPS meters encourage DPS to focus on dpsing as fast as possible, and do the most damage without considering other alternatives such as CC, stun etc. Not always the best DPS is the best player. 4. DPS meter would just be another step to follow the path of World of Warcraft, which would nto fit a game such SWTOR. 5. It's a different game. Learn to appreciate difference and be able to deal with changes. Recount had never been needed, it has been a tool, a convenience in a certain game. Time to do something else today. Human had been blessed with intelligence and are able to adapt themselves to change. Or..are we? This! /Signed 1000% true and correct. I wonder where exactly in the games history this kind of stupid elitism start to show up! Now in all online games it looks that just the "perfect" gamers count and all the others normal,casual and not so good ones are just trash! This days , if we read the forums, we notice how people are always annoyed with something in the games, or bashing the games non stop in same way, "Problem this, problem that", and all is a problem... Well IMHO what is the biggest problem with the games today are the people itself! The players are the biggest problem not the games! I bought a game to spend game qualitie time, spend same cyber time with my friends and in the end...have same fun with that. Weird how it looks that people this days forget it completly this is the moust important thing in a game, and not trying to find holes and problems all the time. Apart of that, on oline games i see so many people just acting like monkeys or some times worst then that ! With a total lack of maturity, humanity or respect that it's impossible to belive!! That my friends are the bigger problem in games this days PEOPLE! People forget it long ago how to act normaly as people!! In this case as game players. Edited January 10, 2012 by Vespertilius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTed Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Anti-recount people spew out a slew of vitriolic babble based on subjective conjecture without a single valid argument other than "lol elitism fu I hate u, u ruined WoW and DON'T TELL ME WHAT I SHOULD DO", completely ignoring the premise of the OP or contributing in any meaningful or constructive way as to how both player segments can be catered to. One party, the pro-recount, resembles a level of maturity, coherence and, this is the shocker, tolerance, that is way, way, way beyond the other. This is simply a lie, as anyone who can read can see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishbrewed Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) I'm gonna respond to the whole thing with this, All their fights are designed around enrages, and I'd like as we're doing these nightmare modes, to see who is holding us down. It's whatever though. Yes but they are laughable as long as everyone is doing something then the timers will be beat, or are appropriately geared. Are you referring to a raid? Just look around you can see if you have a keyboard turner in the group, that's the person that needs to be kicked, don't need a meter for that. Edited January 10, 2012 by Irishbrewed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gohlar Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Raiding with meters = Taking a multiple choice exam. Exactly. We are not all looking for a paint by numbers experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTed Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Beating the boss isn't enough. This says it all. Beating the boss is the goal. Beating the boss while having the highest DPS to brag about is not. If you've made it your goal then that's your problem, not the game's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpsStranger Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Exactly. We are not all looking for a paint by numbers experience. Ah, the good old "muddy the waters to make them feel deep" approach. You're playing the same game either way, it doesn't suddenly become richer and more dynamic with less data. It merely becomes more random and allows a greater illusion of choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gohlar Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) This says it all. Beating the boss is the goal. Beating the boss while having the highest DPS to brag about is not. If you've made it your goal then that's your problem, not the game's. Well said. Ah, the good old "muddy the waters to make them feel deep" approach. You're playing the same game either way, it doesn't suddenly become richer and more dynamic with less data. It merely becomes more random and allows a greater illusion of choice. Stop being intentionally obtuse. You just want to skip the learning process. That's it. Edited January 10, 2012 by Gohlar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimster Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Summary of this thread: Pro-recount people argue coherently and sensically about why they want recount, why it's not inherently the devil incarnate and how ultimately, it'll make their player-segment enjoy the game more. Anti-recount people spew out a slew of vitriolic babble based on subjective conjecture without a single valid argument other than "lol elitism fu I hate u, u ruined WoW and DON'T TELL ME WHAT I SHOULD DO", completely ignoring the premise of the OP or contributing in any meaningful or constructive way as to how both player segments can be catered to. One party, the pro-recount, resembles a level of maturity, coherence and, this is the shocker, tolerance, that is way, way, way beyond the other. A suggestion based on your observation, we have two groups who will not agree on anything and will continue to advocate for what they feel should be done untill they get it. Why not pettition for the creation of a Competitive server where addons are allowed and nornal servers where they are not? Win - Win in my view. The only coherent reply i've gotten to this suggestion is naaaah Bio would never do that... which isnt really coherent or sensible... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yfelsung Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 This says it all. Beating the boss is the goal. Beating the boss while having the highest DPS to brag about is not. If you've made it your goal then that's your problem, not the game's. But it's not a problem. There is no right or wrong way to play. Beating a computer controlled opponent holds no joy. Beating humans does. PvE is, what I call "competitive co-op". The idea is to beat your friends at beating the boss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taroen Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 You serious? Have you ever learned to play a game that didn't break everything down for you? Yikes! Why do you want it so bad? Also, people carrying me? I play with friends. Maybe that's why we don't need recount! but yes, let's make the whole game so easy a pug can do it. It worked so well for WoW... STILL waiting for you to tell me how it plays the game for you. You keep saying it does, over and over, but never manage to say HOW it does. EVERY boss in swtor has a minimum dps requirement. EVERY ONE OF THEM. Personally, we'd like to be able to see if those requirements are being met, and by whom. It's not holding our hands or telling us how to play or giving us instructions. It's providing performance data, nothing more. I defy you to show me otherwise. So far, you've failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahor Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Right that arguement works for Boss mods and ****, not recount, stop overreacting to stupid ****. Recount includes: - DPS meter - healing meter - actions/min - detailed analysis which ability is used when and how often - much much more and it effects EVERY player even if they don't want it, don't need it, don't use it as you will be spammed with "LFG DD min XX DPS at recount". So bad players who know the best DPS combo with best skill trees will get spots EVEN if they suck at CC, allways get aggro, die every second pull and so one while good players who actual HELP the group but don't reach this XX DPS are left alone and don't get into groups. It WILL effect everybody, no way around! And that is FAIL! There is no singel dungon or encounter which NEED perfektion. All of them can be done without. And demanding this ******** has just one reason: E-PEEN "I'M DA BEST NOOB LOOK MY NUMARZZZZZ". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagessel Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Data on it's own is fine. Perhaps attaching Meters to Training Simulations or dummies only will achieve it's goal. The problem is when you make the data generally available to the mostly immature (and this is not an insult- it means the gamer demographic tends to be much younger, immature people). E-Peen contests, pressure, cookie cutter specs, recount links on every trash pull poison the community for many. It leads to a situation where playing is no longer done for fun, but forces people to play with a work outside of work mentality that's one of the reasons the WoW community is universally acknowledged as among the most toxic. Put Meters on simulators / dummies. Otherwise expect the lovely community you see on these boards wielding numbers on a story based game and turn your game into a nightjob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTed Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Ah, the good old "muddy the waters to make them feel deep" approach. You're playing the same game either way, it doesn't suddenly become richer and more dynamic with less data. It merely becomes more random and allows a greater illusion of choice. It also doesn't become richer and more dynamic (whatever the heck that means) with more data. As you point out, it's the same game. No, the data is for bragging rights. If it wasn't, people couldn't play and down bosses. Since they self evidently can... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aimbotcfg Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Exactly. We are not all looking for a paint by numbers experience. Wel done quoting me out of context and proving your complete lack of argument. You just went down in my estimation from 'nostalgia blinded and doesnt understand' to 'blatant troll who has no intrest in debating things'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommyjc Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Yes but they are laughable as long as everyone is doing something then the timers will be beat, or are appropriately geared. Are you referring to a raid? Just look around you can see if you have a keyboard turner in the group, that's the person that needs to be kicked, don't need a meter for that. Right no, that's not true, you clearly haven't done nightmare, it not only tells me who does low dps, it doesn't have to be a keyboard turner to not know your rotation or how to gear or spec. It also shows balance, see what classes aren't balanced, for example too much too little dps, if one is sig lower or higher than the rest. We might also want to send more gear pieces someone's way, or help them learn their class, or god forbid they're too bad or dumb, they'd just have to sit til they aren't. Shrug. Mainly it helps see balance though. And why shouldn't dps who try and do their best be rewarded or aknowledged? Honestly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltuvion Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Raiding with meters = Taking a multiple choice exam. You studied, you learned, you take the exam, you pass and so do your 15 friends, or one of them fails and you get told which one. You help him study for the re-sit, take the test again and you all pass, there is a sense of acievement, you move on to something else. Raiding without meters = Taking a multiple choice exam where the questions are hidden. Doesn't matter if you studied or learned, you have as much chance of passing as the next guy. You have 70 tries and eventually pass. Now add to this example that you can't progress untill all 15 of your friends also pass this exam all on the same attempt. But you also don't get told who failed. does this make you smarter than the guy who passed first time when he could see the questions? No, you managed it through trial and error to claim otherwise is foolish. Its time for the anit-meter crew to come up with solid reason as opposed to 'I dont want to put effort in, its only a game' and 'massive generalisation coupled with insults'. Reiterating as this is spot on. Again, in almost a 100 pages, the conherent arguments from the anti-squad are still sorely lacking and is exclusively based on premonition and conjecture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzan-E Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Why not pettition for the creation of a Competitive server where addons are allowed and normal servers where they are not? Now that, I'll support! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thodra Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 If they add something like recount, then i'm on the edge to leave. I know how to do DPS, but with a recount system, then people expect me to take the best of the best dps spec, and i don't want that. Recount ruins the game.People should pick what ever they want, without any complaints. If the mob/boss in a flashpoint dies, then he dies, no problems, dosen't matter how fast you get him down, as long as it works and you have FUN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahor Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 The idea is to beat your friends at beating the boss. And for this goal which is YOUR subjective and private goal you except, that you destroy the game feeling of many other players who do not share YOUR private goal? You just ignore them and spit them in the face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zolthie Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Anyone who doesn't should be playing single player RPGs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTed Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Reiterating as this is spot on. Again, in almost a 100 pages, the conherent arguments from the anti-squad are still sorely lacking and is exclusively based on premonition and conjecture. No. The data isn't necessary to play and defeat bosses at any difficulty level. We know this because people defeat bosses at every difficulty level. You've made no argument for why we needs it, only that you want it. Try that instead of your insulting troll posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDangerously Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 That depends on how mad they get when I paste their damage. I think I gave this one anti-meter guy a heart attack in Rift when I used the external real-time parser and a little "Ctr-V" action. He was all like **** this, I quit, etc. It was fun, and he was mad bro. Enjoy your social disorder sir; it seems to be quite well developed! I love the total sheep quote "are you mad bro" at the end, you must be really cool... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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