Do you support an in game version of Recount. Please give reasons for your answer.

[VicSix]

If we could limit to only certain addons I would support having them. Some addons are good you are right.

 

Problem is if you allow one you kind of allow them all.

BW has full control over mods and what they allow.

[Mineria]

yeah our toltips shouldn't scale with our talents we can figure it out. You know your playing on a COMPUTER right?

 

I do know, I also do know how to provide info upon skill priority and rotations to the community, so what is your point?

[AlpsStranger]

If we could limit to only certain addons I would support having them. Some addons are good you are right.

 

Problem is if you allow one you kind of allow them all.

 

You don't have to allow "them all." They can control what scripts can access.

 

Much like WoW did it will probably start out with too much power and simply cripple parts of the scripting interface until they have the balance they want.

 

What I was trying to explain was that addons pioneered big parts of the UI you are currently using.

 

When you guys sneer and s*****r at addons you are doing so ignorant of the DNA of the very interface you seem to insist is perfect.

Edited January 10, 2012 by AlpsStranger

[Taroen]

I'm sorry but that is why you fail humanity 101, after all it's only light entertainment..a game. No risk to financial security, your home, your loved ones....it's simply a game.

 

I'm sitting in my wheelchair right now. I also have times where I can't play because of dizzyness. There's no way I would expect my guild to take me to a raid if I wasn't able to handle my part of it. Me not holding my end of the bargain means that the operation fails and 15 other people are screwed because of me.

 

There is no point in going to the operation at all if failure is a certainty. Every operation in the game has requirements by every member of the raid that need to be met for the rest of the members in the raid to have an enjoyable time.

 

I feel bad for good people that get left out, but there is a lot of content outside of raids for people to do. You can't expect to ruin the nights of 15 other people just because you really want to go, but can't handle your side of it.

[BombayRoll]

No addons. In the end, they make the game easier. Not good.

 

More default UI flexibility? Yes.

 

This - I think to DBM in wow - whats the point of having something that tells your standing in fire - shouldnt that be the part of the player to move yourself without a big banner on the screen. All it does it mean you need more complex fights to make up for the fact dbm is telling you what to do.

 

I am not sure regarding more UI flexibility as well - someone was complaining about not being able to see the debuffs - I would again say that the player should maybe get a green "mist" around them or something but you should be looking for these things rather than some addon to tell you.

[Taroen]

I play basketball with a guy in a wheelchair, and he's better than most of us. But that's irrelevant. You're elitist tendencies are showing again. When people are paying for access to a game, they shouldn't be denied access to it simply because they aren't as good at it as you are. In rl, i would support you in this 100%, but we're in a game here, one that people are paying to play. I should add as well, that your post pretty much admits that you would use this system to deny groups to people who do not perform to your expectations, somthing most supporters have gone to huge lengths to deny.

 

So by you saying that they pay for access to the game and shouldn't be denied access, you mean that 15 other people should be forced to play with them, regardless of the fact that it becomes endless wipes and massive repair bills..?

 

Sorry. I'm disabled and I completely disagree with you.

[Sarkav]

I don't need an in game version of recount, but not having a combat log is simply criminal!

 

To be honest, I'd prefer that there was some kind of a mod system and the BW devs concentrated on fixing bugs, balance issues and content creation. Leave the mods to the amateurs and don't try to do everything yourself.

[VicSix]

I do know, I also do know how to provide info upon skill priority and rotations to the community, so what is your point?

That's what a combat log does I don't need you for that.

[Revelationjp]

Two can play at that game:

1) I've seen people in EQ who start casting a spell and stop casting before it goes off so they never gain aggro. They are providing 0 help to the raid, but make it look like they are doing something.

 

2) I'm sorry that people are being locked out of content, but why should I have to try harder to compensate for their lack of capability to have fun? Why should wipe on a boss at 5% because one dps person couldn't contribute even 30% of the dps I did? How is that fun for me?

 

I shouldn't be required to carry the load of someone else when I'm paying for my own game and time. It's selfish to think I should have to. Everyone who is saying that it's so elitist to exlude them is doing the exact opposite and forcing me to play with these sub-par players. I shouldn't have to and w/out recount it can be hard for me to see where the fat is that needs to be trimmed.

 

I'm a competitor. Part of my fun is completing content and trying to get better and better. I'm sorry if some people cannot do that, but I shouldn't have to be stuck with a person like that. You people complain that pro-dps-meter people are forcing you to spec a certain way. No, I'm not. You don't have to group with me. But stop forcing me to not be able to optimize my spec.

 

It's like saying I shouldn't be allowed to buy meat because you're a vegetarian.

I'm certainly not saying that you should be forced to group with someone who is causing havok in the group, or purposely losing aggro, or making the game not fun for you. I'm simply saying that using a system like we're discussing to ban someone who's dps is lower than the 'acceptable' limit is perhaps shortsighted and unfair, and a valid reason for not allowing the system. May I add that myself, I don't support nor not support it, I don't really have an opinion on it. I'm just giving anecdotal evidence from friends experiences. I don't really care one way or the other.

[Mineria]

Just to add something to those who think addons are needed.

First World kills have been done without.

Hmm maybe its to hardcore not to allow them....

[VicSix]

Just to add something to those who think addons are needed.

First World kills have been done without.

Hmm maybe its to hardcore not to allow them....

We don't NEED add-ons like we don't NEED mounts. It's something nice to have, and the best part? If you don't like them you don't have to use them. All my friend ever used in wow was dominos/bongo bars and power auras. Never had an issue with him in raids.

[trublmaker]

That depends on how mad they get when I paste their damage.

 

I think I gave this one anti-meter guy a heart attack in Rift when I used the external real-time parser and a little "Ctr-V" action. He was all like **** this, I quit, etc. It was fun, and he was mad bro.

 

 

I'll simplify... I have no problem with mods. I have a problem with people who abuse them.

[Taroen]

I'm certainly not saying that you should be forced to group with someone who is causing havok in the group, or purposely losing aggro, or making the game not fun for you. I'm simply saying that using a system like we're discussing to ban someone who's dps is lower than the 'acceptable' limit is perhaps shortsighted and unfair, and a valid reason for not allowing the system. May I add that myself, I don't support nor not support it, I don't really have an opinion on it. I'm just giving anecdotal evidence from friends experiences. I don't really care one way or the other.

 

It's not short-sighted or unfair. It's not elitist.

 

Every boss in the endgame has a dps requirement. If the raid doesn't meet those requirements, the bosses enrage and start one-shotting people.

 

If you can't meet the requirements for a raid, then you shouldn't expect to go.

 

Some group leaders set those requirements on their own and have no real relation to the actual numbers. Don't play with those people. Find a guild or a group that doesn't artificially inflate the requirements.

 

But quit expecting other people to play with you when they clearly think you're holding them back.

[Revelationjp]

So by you saying that they pay for access to the game and shouldn't be denied access, you mean that 15 other people should be forced to play with them, regardless of the fact that it becomes endless wipes and massive repair bills..?

 

Sorry. I'm disabled and I completely disagree with you.

No, you're misunderstanding me. I'm simply saying that as things stand, everyone has a chance of getting into groups and my experiences have been good. There's always those people who don't seem to be pulling their weight, but we're playing a game, not competeing in the Olympics. We get it done. By implementing a system like this, you risk instituting a stigma on people who may deserve it, or may not. that's all i'm saying. I'll leave it at that.

[deathsg]

I play basketball with a guy in a wheelchair, and he's better than most of us. But that's irrelevant. You're elitist tendencies are showing again. When people are paying for access to a game, they shouldn't be denied access to it simply because they aren't as good at it as you are. In rl, i would support you in this 100%, but we're in a game here, one that people are paying to play. I should add as well, that your post pretty much admits that you would use this system to deny groups to people who do not perform to your expectations, somthing most supporters have gone to huge lengths to deny.

 

ya, back in my WoW days during TBC i was in a raiding guild who had a guy that had literally 1 hand(he lost is other in a work accident or something years before) but he did pretty good DPS but his ability to move away from boss mechanics hindered him because he he has to keyboard turn and such. But the guild still worked with him and we managed as a whole to overcome it.

[Spynnal]

I'll simplify... I have no problem with mods. I have a problem with people who abuse them.

 

This I agree with. Hate meters in raids, or e-peen contests.

 

Love meters to better my own output, and figure out gear/trait differences.

[DredWes]

I will support any version of "recount" that doesn't allow you to post in game. Must use a third party site to post and analyze.

 

It is too distracting and isn't conducive to players using their classes full potential.

[Spynnal]

I will support any version of "recount" that doesn't allow you to post in game. Must use a third party site to post and analyze.

 

It is too distracting and isn't conducive to players using their classes full potential.

 

Agree with this too. I want my own data. I don't need others spamming theirs at me.

[AlpsStranger]

I'll simplify... I have no problem with mods. I have a problem with people who abuse them.

 

I have no regrets. Nobody demanded that he have a hissy fit simply because parsing was available. It wasn't my job to walk on eggshells because he chose to be hypersensitive to something.

Edited January 10, 2012 by AlpsStranger

[PjPablo]

This I agree with. Hate meters in raids, or e-peen contests.

 

Love meters to better my own output, and figure out gear/trait differences.

 

I think most people hate the epeen crap. If someone throws up a chart in chat in a raid/group today they get tore up pretty quick. At least in my experience. In the past it was way more prevalent.

[GalacticKegger]

We've seen what addons did to WoW. Eliminating addons from WoW would cause its hard core community to explode. Any mod, macro or addon that forces dev to patch gameplay mechanics to compensate for their use is a detriment imho. The combat log protion of recount would be nice because it's a legit "after the fact" teaching tool. Metering is better served on target droids. Edited January 10, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[Febibi]

 

Recount is not just a "damage meter"... it is a graphical interface which allows you to view group activity in the combat log i.e. Damage Done over the duration of the fight by each player, Friendly Fire, Damage Taken, Healing Done, Absorbs, Healing Taken, Overhealing Done, Deaths, DOT Uptime, HOT Uptime, Player Combat Activity, Dispels, The Dispelled, Interrupts, Ressers, CC Breakers, Resources Gained, etc.

 

I believe these tools play an important role in identifying whether a player is doing well or under-performing. Nevertheless, these graphs should be the starting point – an indicator that you should be looking more closely at the situation. Used wisely, a tool like this could greatly improve guild performance.

 

Some individuals are fearful of an "elitist" backlash caused by the improper use of such a tool. Nevertheless, people have also argued that this tool would actually curb elitist behavior based on FACTS and DATA rather than Gear, Achievements, Spec, Gut Feeling or Favoritism.

 

The inevitability of undesirable behavior isn't something we can escape in a massive online community, so the real question is...

 

Would you rather be castigated based on factual data or would you rather take your chances with the "hunch" of a self seeking jerk?

 

With Recount

 

Jerk: Dude please leave the group your DPS sucks.

 

 

Without Recount

 

Jerk: Dude please leave the group you are wearing a green helm and your gear isn't good enough for this encounter. (You get kicked, even if you were top DPS)

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EDIT: It would also totally eliminate "recount spam". They could disable all data broadcasts... If everyone has access to the information there would be no need to broadcast the results.

 

EDIT UPDATE:

-

During the speed-fire round starting at 13:00 in the video. Georg confirms an out of game COMBAT LOG!

 

People will have access to combat logs please bring a recount version in the game!

 

I think Georg Zoeller understands our pain for not having a combat log at launch, let's hope they "get it right" and quickly.

 

People who don't like Recount.

 

no need for mods

 

These type of things breed harassment. I have bwwn playing MMO's for many years and when games started using this... jerks were everywhere.... like dungeon finder....

 

if you want this...goto wow....

 

Learn to help teach others, trust others and be a community..... games are for fun and not business so there is no need for a program to give you the math you can do yourself.

 

IF implemented it should be server side and only for group leaders.

[Lostpenguins]

That info can be directly used to quickly and easily find an optimal rotation. This is something you couldn't do on your own. Recount has dictated your rotation. Rubbing 2 brain cells together to interpret the data is NOT learning to play.

 

THINK BEFORE SPEAKING.

 

 

 

There is next to nothing left for your brain to do....that's my point.

 

You can essentially do this by going to a pvp zone like Tatooine, turning on Fraps, having some guildies chain heal a guy you sit there an whack, over and over and then slowly adding up all the numbers yourself. Do this several times and you'll be able to get the same values.

 

Recount just does this faster. Recount doesn't dictate your rotation. It only gives you the optimal rotation for maximum damage. Whether you choose to use that information is up to you.

 

You are still over generalizing. No one would disagree that equally geared items with one having crit and surge is better for a dps that has defense and shield rating on it. Is anyone forcing you to wear that gear? It doesn't take "Rubbing 2 brain cells together to interpret" that.

 

Maybe I should quote you (and fix your statement at the same time): "THINK BEFORE TYPING."

[Taroen]

I will support any version of "recount" that doesn't allow you to post in game. Must use a third party site to post and analyze.

 

It is too distracting and isn't conducive to players using their classes full potential.

 

I love it when people post it in game. It's great to see who gets to the top of my ignore list. =)

 

Those people are jerks, so wouldn't it be great just as a tool to identify the jerks in the game..?

[Matchews]

I think most people hate the epeen crap. If someone throws up a chart in chat in a raid/group today they get tore up pretty quick. At least in my experience. In the past it was way more prevalent.

 

I love see'n meters posted in chat or in guild chat. Absolutely love to see them. Especially when it isn't me doing it. That tells me that I'm running with my kind of crowd. The kind of crowd that plays to compete and not just mash buttons blindly.