Accuracy Theorycrafting?

[Lancerx]

Hey, I been thinking about playing around with accuracy. Anyone here ever tried stacking as much as they can? I wonder how much it would help to get offhand accuracy up allot. I take it that basic attacks are all the attacks that are white, so it should help a huge majority of our attacks. Anyone got any thoughts on this that has tried it at 50?

[MBirkhofer]

I do think "special" attacks might be focus spenders. while "normal" are non spenders. But I'm not sure on that.

Kick for example, is almost certainly 100% innate.

[Lancerx]

I do think "special" attacks might be focus spenders. while "normal" are non spenders. But I'm not sure on that.

Kick for example, is almost certainly 100% innate.

 

Still I wonder how much abilities would benefit from having improved offhand accuracy, specially combined with the extra offhand damage from combat tree.

[Rankith]

It seems that Yellow hits are the "special" and white are the normal. So basically, melee vs force/other as far as I can tell.

 

God, wtb combat log so bad ><.

[Rankith]

Still I wonder how much abilities would benefit from having improved offhand accuracy, specially combined with the extra offhand damage from combat tree.

 

At this time offhand damage is pretty pointless. It doesn't scale with your stats at all, so its pretty close to nothing on dual wield attacks, definately not worth raising the accuracy for just that.

[MBirkhofer]

It seems that Yellow hits are the "special" and white are the normal. So basically, melee vs force/other as far as I can tell.

 

God, wtb combat log so bad ><.

 

nah thats not it.

 

There is a listing for "special" offhand hits. Never seen a yellow offhand hit.

Yellow is procs, dots.

[AeetesSixFive]

Don't bother with OH accuracy, you're just wasting valuable points that could be going to a better stat. 100% seems to work no MH misses or parries, done all the hardmodes and soon to be doing ops. With how lousy our OH damage scales getting 100% acc with it (total of 133% I believe) isn't worth it, losing out on crit/surge/power.

[Edgedy]

100% accuracy is good enough as previous posts stated, rest invest in surge/critical.

 

Don't go surge crit and 90% accuracy however, you lose a lot of damage potential and armor piercing.

[yillin]

100% accuracy is good enough as previous posts stated, rest invest in surge/critical.

 

Don't go surge crit and 90% accuracy however, you lose a lot of damage potential and armor piercing.

 

Accuracy over 100% does not give armor piercing.

[ryuukhang]

Accuracy over 100% does not give armor piercing.

 

Accuracy over 100% lowers their defense, which I'm guessing he's attributing to armor piercing.

[MBirkhofer]

Accuracy atm appears to be a pvp only stat.

 

Npcs of equal level have 0 defense. Defense being dodge/deflect.

Raid bosses are of equal level.

 

Special skills, force skills, and normal skills.

 

Strike appears to be the only "normal" skill.

Everything else is a special skill. Meaning, it has 100% mainhand hit rate.

+def stat, does provide dodge/deflect. as well as active skills, such as trans, and sabreward.

 

 

Force powers, also have 100% hit rate.

And +defense doesn't do anything vs force anyway. As far as I can tell, there is ZERO reason to have over 100% force acc. Now, consider how much of your damage is force.

Focus, bladestorm, sweep, stasis, crush.

Combat, ataur procs, bladestorm.

Watchman, cauterize, overload sabre.

Aka, ALOT of it. Further devaluing acc.

 

 

Pvp, active skills such as trans, and sabreward do give +def. 10%, and 60% respectively. +acc will counter then, therefore.

Also, "tank" pvp gear comes with +def stat, so here as well, +acc will counter that stat.

[Atamosk]

So is weapon damage used at all besides our basic attack? obviously best weapon has the best stat but does the damage actually do anything for our special abilities? i know this doesnt have to do with accuracy but my second point is for a smuggler tech has a 100% accuracy so whats up with that.

[Maefly]

Yes, taking Accuracy above 100% doesn't seem to be of any real PvE benefit right now. However, you want it to be 100% since your non force abilities are the ones that generate focus. So, even though you may not use these as much as your force abilities missing a Zealous Strike has a compounding negative effect.

 

You miss the damage from Zealous Strike and a global cooldown. In addition to that you don't have the focus required to do any of your bigger damage abilities AND zealous strike is now on cooldown. So now you're left with Strike as your only option to generate focus (which also has a chance to miss if you have < 100% accuracy) further decreasing your dps because you would need to strike 3x as much to generate the same amount of focus.

 

You also have to consider that you will be using your focus generators a lot during the course of a raid and if you're interested in pushing your maximum dps, a single miss by zealous strike causes that number to go down.

 

If you have done any hard mode or operation bosses, you know melee gets the short end of the stick. Our time on target is already cut down because we spend a lot of time being knocked back, knocked down, chasing the target, or just not being able to hit it.

 

100% accuracy is the most important thing you can get to if you want to do the most amount of damage your character can.

[Dogamai]

Item #1:

 

Accuracy = no reason to get it unless you cant keep up your rotation. you should use your normal attack maybe 1 out of 15 attacks in my experience.

 

Every other attack you have is always 100% hit. Furthermore no mobs appear to have defense at 50 so you gain no bonus from accuracy over 100%.

 

Conclusions: accuracy for pvp.

 

item #2:

 

Gore.

 

Ability states: increases armor penetration BY 100% (not TO 100%). there is no where to check armor penetration on character sheet and as far as i can tell no talent or ability gives you any kind of flat armor penetration so this skill may not be worth using at 3 rage cost.

 

conclusion: needs more testing but appears to be a waste of rage.

 

item #3:

 

Alacrity.

 

This stat ONLY decreases Channel time and CAST TIME. it does not effect GCD or regular CDs at all. therefore marauder only has 2 abilities affected by this stat: Ravage and Force Choke

 

Conclusion: dont use alacrity

 

item #4:

 

Power.

 

Point for point, this stat is about 50% of the value of crit/surge or less depending on your skill tree.

 

conclusion: if your dps, you build crit+surge (get the ratings as equal to each other as possible for maximum effect)

 

 

item #5:

 

Ravage + Ataru

 

in 3 seconds ravage only hits 2 times. this means it is the same proc chance as your other abilities which hit 1 time every 1.5 seconds. so don't fret about not using ravage on CD. I use it now after ive expended all rage and still waiting for battering assault. (obviously the lockdown is nice in pvp, id doesnt work on bosses)

 

item #6:

 

Ataru strike and offhand strikes

 

Ive tested this as best I can and as far as i can tell the ataru strike can not proc from off-hand strikes. Need more testing to confirm. However this also made me realize that offhand accuracy may not actually be implemented because offhand damage is automatically added point for point (as according to your character sheet) to all abilities that can strike with 2 weapons including your regular attack. You can view the change in the tooltip just by unequipping your offhand weapon. furthermore with 100% normal accuracy i did ~300 normal attacks against an elite mob and i never saw the miss proc. so either the floating text does not show offhand misses, or your offhand never misses if you have 100% normal primary accuracy.

 

 

---

 

final notes:

 

I pull aggro from tanks when i just spam Massacre, doing normal rotations i do not. since ther eis no added threat on abilities here as best as I can tell, DPS should be the only thing pulling agro: massacre spam = highest dps ??

 

 

Please confirm as much of this as you can and post here. thanks!

[Toweleeeie]

Item #1:

 

Accuracy = no reason to get it unless you cant keep up your rotation. you should use your normal attack maybe 1 out of 15 attacks in my experience.

 

Every other attack you have is always 100% hit. Furthermore no mobs appear to have defense at 50 so you gain no bonus from accuracy over 100%.

 

Conclusions: accuracy for pvp.

 

item #2:

 

Gore.

 

Ability states: increases armor penetration BY 100% (not TO 100%). there is no where to check armor penetration on character sheet and as far as i can tell no talent or ability gives you any kind of flat armor penetration so this skill may not be worth using at 3 rage cost.

 

conclusion: needs more testing but appears to be a waste of rage.

 

item #3:

 

Alacrity.

 

This stat ONLY decreases Channel time and CAST TIME. it does not effect GCD or regular CDs at all. therefore marauder only has 2 abilities affected by this stat: Ravage and Force Choke

 

Conclusion: dont use alacrity

 

item #4:

 

Power.

 

Point for point, this stat is about 50% of the value of crit/surge or less depending on your skill tree.

 

conclusion: if your dps, you build crit+surge (get the ratings as equal to each other as possible for maximum effect)

 

 

item #5:

 

Ravage + Ataru

 

in 3 seconds ravage only hits 2 times. this means it is the same proc chance as your other abilities which hit 1 time every 1.5 seconds. so don't fret about not using ravage on CD. I use it now after ive expended all rage and still waiting for battering assault. (obviously the lockdown is nice in pvp, id doesnt work on bosses)

 

item #6:

 

Ataru strike and offhand strikes

 

Ive tested this as best I can and as far as i can tell the ataru strike can not proc from off-hand strikes. Need more testing to confirm. However this also made me realize that offhand accuracy may not actually be implemented because offhand damage is automatically added point for point (as according to your character sheet) to all abilities that can strike with 2 weapons including your regular attack. You can view the change in the tooltip just by unequipping your offhand weapon. furthermore with 100% normal accuracy i did ~300 normal attacks against an elite mob and i never saw the miss proc. so either the floating text does not show offhand misses, or your offhand never misses if you have 100% normal primary accuracy.

 

 

---

 

final notes:

 

I pull aggro from tanks when i just spam Massacre, doing normal rotations i do not. since ther eis no added threat on abilities here as best as I can tell, DPS should be the only thing pulling agro: massacre spam = highest dps ??

 

 

Please confirm as much of this as you can and post here. thanks!

 

What is Massacre? I dont see it

[yillin]

What is Massacre? I dont see it

 

Massacre is the Sith Marauder equivalent of blade rush.

[AstralProjection]

nah thats not it.

 

There is a listing for "special" offhand hits. Never seen a yellow offhand hit.

Yellow is procs, dots.

 

If you're a Combat-tree massochist, you'll see yellow Ataru proc criticals. Not sure but it may count those toward yellow offhand hits.

Edited January 11, 2012 by AstralProjection

[Coramac]

item #2:

 

Gore.

 

Ability states: increases armor penetration BY 100% (not TO 100%). there is no where to check armor penetration on character sheet and as far as i can tell no talent or ability gives you any kind of flat armor penetration so this skill may not be worth using at 3 rage cost.

 

conclusion: needs more testing but appears to be a waste of rage.

 

It does not take armor negative. You can test this easily by comparing Blade Storms from Focus and Combat.

 

item #4:

 

Power.

 

Point for point, this stat is about 50% of the value of crit/surge or less depending on your skill tree.

 

conclusion: if your dps, you build crit+surge (get the ratings as equal to each other as possible for maximum effect)

 

This is false. Power has a sliding scaling factor. It depends on Crit and Surge.

 

 

item #5:

 

Ravage + Ataru

 

in 3 seconds ravage only hits 2 times. this means it is the same proc chance as your other abilities which hit 1 time every 1.5 seconds. so don't fret about not using ravage on CD. I use it now after ive expended all rage and still waiting for battering assault. (obviously the lockdown is nice in pvp, id doesnt work on bosses)

 

I'm not sure if you can get two procs on Ravage / MS. I tried checking on this for a while back and don't believe I ever had more than 1 proc. I suspect procs occur on ability usage, not successful melee atacks.

 

item #6:

 

Ataru strike and offhand strikes

 

Ive tested this as best I can and as far as i can tell the ataru strike can not proc from off-hand strikes. Need more testing to confirm. However this also made me realize that offhand accuracy may not actually be implemented because offhand damage is automatically added point for point (as according to your character sheet) to all abilities that can strike with 2 weapons including your regular attack. You can view the change in the tooltip just by unequipping your offhand weapon. furthermore with 100% normal accuracy i did ~300 normal attacks against an elite mob and i never saw the miss proc. so either the floating text does not show offhand misses, or your offhand never misses if you have 100% normal primary accuracy.

 

This is false. The damage is not added point for point to all abilities. Ability modifier applies to the offhand damage. I don't think accuracy is working. Peopole say that Strike can miss. I don't ever recall seeing it miss and I've never had 100% accuracy. There could be something else at play or I could have just not been paying enough attention (I wasn't looking for misses). I also don't think the offhand can miss on a special. I haven't paid a little attention to that one could have easliy missed something there as I wasn't specifically watching for misses.

 

final notes:

 

I pull aggro from tanks when i just spam Massacre, doing normal rotations i do not. since ther eis no added threat on abilities here as best as I can tell, DPS should be the only thing pulling agro: massacre spam = highest dps ??

 

 

Please confirm as much of this as you can and post here. thanks!

 

Interesting fact here- I made a post about this to some degree previously. Blade Rush / Massacre have very solid scaling. BR's scaling is slightly above a talented Slash (slightly worse I believe when factoring in Shi-Cho I think; I only did very quick rudimentary testing because I've been too lazy to break out Excel). However, Ataru Strikes bring additional scaling and it really isn't that bad, especially when BR and Massacre can proc it twice. Spamming the ability will give you a 50% chance to proc it. Non-crit damage is basically on par with crit Blade Storm / Scream on a double proc. Additionally, Blade Storm will consume but not benefit from the 10% damage buff for Focus spenders. We'd need to check the scaling of Blade Storm, but at a certain crit level, it's probably going to be best to drop Blade Storm from the mix unless you need to use it for Focus reasons during a Precision Slash.

[pangwl]

We'd need to check the scaling of Blade Storm, but at a certain crit level, it's probably going to be best to drop Blade Storm from the mix unless you need to use it for Focus reasons during a Precision Slash.

 

Quite right... pretty much impossible to run out of 'Focus' if Zen is build up.

 

1) BR - costs 3 focus

2) If you pick up the regeneration of 1focus for ea. use of BR (watchman), that's theoretically costs 2.

3) Zen (ataru - reduces 1 focus costs)

4) Precision strike -> BR spam (practically costs 1 focus to use)

 

I would normally time blade storm, just b4 the end of zen while in combat trance to ensure 100% crit.

[EasymodeX]

It's impossible to get the level of crit needed to compete with Blade Storm.

 

Crit from rating caps at 29.9%. Base 5%. 5% from group buffs.

 

 

BR base with highend gear: 1346, scales with power: 1.34

Ataru base with highend gear: 297, scales with power: 0.343

 

BS base: 1772, scales: 1.87

 

 

Adding crit levels and talents, pretending we have .75 base surge:

 

BR: 1346*(1+.4*1.05) = 1911.32, power scaling: 1.90

Ataru: 297*1.3*(1+.4*1.05) = 548.26, scaling: 0.633

 

BS: 1772*(1+1.0*1.05) = 3632.6, scaling: 3.934

 

 

Real BR: 1911.32 + 548.26 + 548.26 / 2 = 2733.7

BS: 3632.6

 

BR scaling: 1.9 + .633 + .633/2 = 2.85

BS: 3.934

 

Note for later discussion: BR is 75% of an autocrit BS.

 

How much crit do you need to even get the power scaling to match Blade Storm?

 

 

1.34*(1+X*1.05) + .343*1.3*(1+X*1.05)*1.5 = 3.934

 

1.34 + 1.407X + .669 + .702X = 3.934

 

2.109X + 2.009 = 3.934

 

X = 91.3%

 

You're not getting 91% crit anytime soon.

 

Sidenote: there's a minor error where Ataru procs should have a 6% higher chance to crit than stated if you are spec'd for it, but that won't make a whole hell of a lot of difference .

[RamzaBehoulve]

Saying Precision Strike might not be worth it is the biggest joke in this thread.

 

It gives 100% armor penetration. This can be tested on a heavy armor target in PvP. For 6s, you are hitting your target as if it didn't have any armor. If it had low armor to begin with, it won't add much damage though, but even light armored targets get to 20% armor mitigation.

[Coramac]

Quite right... pretty much impossible to run out of 'Focus' if Zen is build up.

 

1) BR - costs 3 focus

2) If you pick up the regeneration of 1focus for ea. use of BR (watchman), that's theoretically costs 2.

3) Zen (ataru - reduces 1 focus costs)

4) Precision strike -> BR spam (practically costs 1 focus to use)

 

I would normally time blade storm, just b4 the end of zen while in combat trance to ensure 100% crit.

 

You don't have Zen up every 15 seconds. The advantage for using BS over a BR is when you use Precision Slash with 9 Focus or 8 Focus and a soon to expire Combat Trance. You would end with BS in this situation because it's going to net you more DPS. In this situation, you end with 2 focus for left for the last attack which is not enough to use BR. I think the difference between BS and BR is not sufficient to justify delaying for a Strike.