Why Didn't Bioware Innovate Anything in SW:TOR - ESPECIALLY in the End-game?

[jeinasindorei]

Please level another character and eat your words. This game is the exact same. You will see when you level another character - the vast majority of the quests are non-class specific and you will be redoing over and over again doing the same thing every character you make.

 

Please do not discuss things you do not know anything about, as we can assume from your "taking time to do the quests and follow the story". Once you have finished with your first character, and level another one, THEN come back and discuss how repetitive or non-repetitive things are.

 

I have a level 50, a level 38, a level 26, a level 18, two level 12s, a level 11 and a level 2.

 

I have not gotten tired of doing the same quests. I enjoy seeing different reactions when making different conversation choices. I like seeing if choosing one option opens up a different conversation tree than the one I did on my previous characters. I like seeing the difference between LS and DS choices. The fact that all NPCs react differently to me depending on class/sex makes it interesting. The classes play differently enough that I don't mind actually doing the quests.

 

WoW never offered me that. Nor did any other MMO.

[DarthMissery]

Right i'll be honest from the start WOW was without the greatest game i have ever played, i loved it. I played from launch until the begining of 2011 so please keep this statment in mind while reading the rest of this post.

 

 

People be honest now, how many of the posters here was really playing during the wow launch?? come on how many? or even wow pre BC? from the way people talk about it i would say a handfull at best.

 

WOW lauch was terrible, god dam horrendous in fact. The game was full of bugs, servers were up & down constantly, no PVP content, limited end game in fact no structure to the game until (in my opinion) lvl 40 etc etc the Tarrens didnt even have mounts.

 

My point being if wow havent invented and/or copied many ideas & added them into it, wow would of died many many years ago.

 

Now to SWTOR, i love it. I cant remember the last time i spent 15+ sitting at my computer, It does help i am a hardcore SW fan but hell who isnt. The game isnt perfect & i havent had no way near as many OH MY GOD moments WOW gave me in those 1st few weeks but MMO isnt new to me as it was back then.

 

The game has so much potential, the story (i though talking quest givers was the worst idea of all time but god dam was i wrong) the pvp, the space combat (pve or maybe even pvp), endgame, world pvp, new races just give BW a chance. I am just thinking this as an amazing template just think of what wonders they can add to it.

 

Just please please please no duel-spec.

[Xugos]

Dont forget crafting system

Bonus quests while in a quest area

Companions

Space Combat

Advanced classes

 

Companions are in WoW - they're called pets.

 

The crafting system is no different than WoW. The only difference is that you can send your pet to craft things. Hardly innovative.

 

Bonus quests while in a quest area are already in WoW if you've played after patch 4.0.

 

Space Combat - you mean that rail-shooter? Are you saying that Bioware invented rail-shooters? LOL

 

Advanced classes - glorified talent trees? Sorry, superior talent trees already exist in WoW.

[Kairushi]

Please level another character and eat your words. This game is the exact same. You will see when you level another character - the vast majority of the quests are non-class specific and you will be redoing over and over again doing the same thing every character you make.

 

Please do not discuss things you do not know anything about, as we can assume from your "taking time to do the quests and follow the story". Once you have finished with your first character, and level another one, THEN come back and discuss how repetitive or non-repetitive things are.

 

And wows quests are not the same? I remeber doing a huge amount of the same quests with different toon classes. So your point is null and void.

Edited January 8, 2012 by Kairushi

[Majestic_Jazz]

I agree with this thread. There are some things that they innovated, but most of these innovations are never going to take off and are proving to be a downfall in my opinion.

 

Voice acting - it is proving to be a lot more boring and repetitive. It is great the first time you play through. The next time you play through, you get to hear a lot of the same voice acting. Not to mention all new content now must be voice acted, meaning more $$ towards voice acting and less toward developing content.

 

I played a Trooper Vanguard for the Republic then turned around and play a Sith Warrior for the Empire and I didn't hear not one repeated line. It was almost like I am playing two different games.

 

Story - another innovation that is proving to be a lot more boring and repetitive than people expected. In other MMORPGs, you go pick up a quest, you go do it, you turn it in. It is fine to repeat these because they are just quests, just something you do. In SWTOR, you listen to the voice acted dialogue and make decisions. For each and every alt, you listen to the same boring story, the same dialogue options, etc, etc. I know people say "Well play a different class!" but the reality is that only ~15-20% of the quests are class quests, and the rest quickly get boring when you are redoing them over and over and over again. Same planets, same order, every time.

 

Very subjective, and you do not speak for everyone! I happen to LOVE the story and will continue to. Again, just your OPINION, but not fact. Please address it as such. There are ~ 1.5 million people playing the game, how in this green Earth can you know what most of them are thinking?

 

Other than that, I see no innovations in this game. Every one of the classes can be linked back to previous MMORPGs (even the Trooper/Smuggler energy systems, even the cover system).

 

Besides slightly better graphics, Doom didn't improve much over Caslte Wolfenstien and yet Doom is hailed as one of the better FPS of all time. KOTOR didn't have any major innovations. Voice acting? Well Deus Ex had that like 3 years prior but yet KOTOR is hailed as one of the better console RPGs of all time and probably the best Star Wars game ever. You act like if a game doesn't have any major innovations, then it isn't a great game that millions will enjoy.

 

Another reason people are finding these issues so hard to live with is that there isn't a solid game behind them! If a game has flaws at the design level, it is easy to get the community to stick behind you while you work toward a better design. However, when the current systems that are "working as intended" are working so horribly and are so clunky and old feeling, it is hard to get people to not complain.

 

To the folks who keep saying "Well just leave then!" I say this - We have been around for just as long as you have, YEARS of waiting for this game, anticipating a great experience, hearing the promises of innovation, a new kind of MMORPG. After so long, it is hard to just say "Oh well, it sucks" without expressing our extreme disappointment with what has come to fruition after so much hype. It is not something you can walk away from without at least letting it be known how you feel - I heard a quote one time that really applies here...

 

"It is not the fans but the critics that move any project forward"

 

Really it is the truth. If everyone on these forums was the typical fanboy "Oh my gosh, this is an amazing game, I'm having so much fun!" then nothing would be done about the horribly unresponsive combat system, the lack of content at end game, the issues with PvP currently, etc.

 

To ask for the critics to simply leave and not let Bioware know why they are in fact losing the critic's business would be foolish for the fans, as it is the critics who are leaving that will tell Bioware 10x more about what they need to do to keep the game alive than the fans who settle ever will.

 

Most of all, I am disappointed in Bioware. They did exactly as most predicted they would - they took a great game, and let the pressure for a good release force a launch that they were not ready for. It is odd to me, because I honestly believe that they would have had just as successful of a launch a month after the holiday season, as most people pre-ordered the game anyways and there was no big "Christmas Day Rush" as they seemed to believe there would be. Unfortunately, I think the next 6 months of fixes and content additions will determine the fate of this game, and they will have to do it without quite a few subscribers who are leaving after the free time is up until there is more polish put into the game.

 

Answers in Blue.

 

 

Oh and yeah, once your free 30 days is up, I expect to not see any post made by you.

 

Please move along....

[DesleDarksyde]

Companions are in WoW - they're called pets.

 

The crafting system is no different than WoW. The only difference is that you can send your pet to craft things. Hardly innovative.

 

Bonus quests while in a quest area are already in WoW if you've played after patch 4.0.

 

Space Combat - you mean that rail-shooter? Are you saying that Bioware invented rail-shooters? LOL

 

Advanced classes - glorified talent trees? Sorry, superior talent trees already exist in WoW.

 

Cover system

 

/thread

 

Modify your original pst, and ask for 2 unique features.

Edited January 8, 2012 by DesleDarksyde

[Xugos]

I don't have to...

He asked for one.

And then promptly ignored my post, instead of standing corrected, and modifying his post.

Typical troll.

Will just leave his original argument, instead of yielding an modifying it.

 

Alright, so you apparently, mistakenly, think that the cover system is innovative. Granted, it is a bold step, but it is really nothing more than a glorified stealth mode/WoW stance hybrid. The cover-ability mechanics function the same way stealth and stance mechanics in WoW do.

 

Add to that that it ACTUALLY DOESN'T WORK. There's tons of things broken with it momentarily, especially in PvP where it is next to useless. What use is cover against a force-charging Jedi Knight?

[Daedricshots]

Companions are in WoW - they're called pets.

 

The crafting system is no different than WoW. The only difference is that you can send your pet to craft things. Hardly innovative.

 

Bonus quests while in a quest area are already in WoW if you've played after patch 4.0.

 

Space Combat - you mean that rail-shooter? Are you saying that Bioware invented rail-shooters? LOL

 

Advanced classes - glorified talent trees? Sorry, superior talent trees already exist in WoW.

 

You asked for innovations. Those are innovations whether you agree with them or not. You want proof then you refute proof. You have no idea of how to conduct a formal debate, try getting a book and reading about debating a point and counterpoint.

[Rohanshot]

In all honesty, GW2 innovates while SWTOR evolves.

 

But it is bringing new things to the MMO genre, including improvements to previous MMO features.

 

Companions

Crafting System

Cover System

Story Choices/Morality (Not really story)

[Thaonnor]

Dont forget crafting system - WoW + other games time/offline mechanics

Bonus quests while in a quest area - Warhammer.

Companions - Pets in every other MMORPG out there... giving it to everyone does not make it an innovation, it makes it expanding an already existing idea

Space Combat - Space on rails, already done (better) by the Halo series. You can say that I can't compare single player games with MMORPGs, but I can when it is a single player aspect of the game.

Advanced classes - Rift, Aion, etc. etc.

 

 

5char

Edited January 8, 2012 by Thaonnor

[DesleDarksyde]

Companions are in WoW - they're called pets.

Yep, I love sending my pets in Wow on missions to gather mats, craft stuff, or collect gold.

I always have 3 pets out on missions (In Wow), while I keep one to fight with me.

 

I also love the pet-story lines in WoW!

They are really cool, don't you think?

[Vecke]

Companions are in WoW - they're called pets.

 

The crafting system is no different than WoW. The only difference is that you can send your pet to craft things. Hardly innovative.

 

Bonus quests while in a quest area are already in WoW if you've played after patch 4.0.

 

Space Combat - you mean that rail-shooter? Are you saying that Bioware invented rail-shooters? LOL

 

Advanced classes - glorified talent trees? Sorry, superior talent trees already exist in WoW.

 

Crafting where you can send your pet to craft is - by definition - innnovation.

 

I respect that you are dissatisfied with the game, but people have pointed out some genuinely innovative features of this game and you're discrediting them because they don't impress you. Whether they impress you or not, they are still innovative.

 

I'm curious... what would you consider an innovative feature they could have added that people wouldn't do exactly what you just did.

[fro_do_fraggins]

This is what I would do. Cancel your subscription FOR NOW. In a month or 2, when patches start fixing the game a bit, then you can start to consider coming back to it.

 

That's my approach. I like the games foundation but not the WOW endgame treadmill.

 

The concern I have is for the players that won't come back because they are so disappointed with the launch. I think the game released with enough content to justify it going retail, but not enough to win over a large number of people. The question is will the extra months of subscription payments be worth the lost sales/subscriptions to people that are unhappy with the product they released and won't come back or try it later.

[DesleDarksyde]

Cover mechanic...

 

/thread

[Xugos]

You asked for innovations. Those are innovations whether you agree with them or not. You want proof then you refute proof. You have no idea of how to conduct a formal debate, try getting a book and reading about debating a point and counterpoint.

 

I pointed out why those 'innovations' are not actually Bioware's innovations because WoW had them before SW:TOR did.

 

 

I see you're taking your ball and crying home. Go for it.

[Meltaman]

Alright, so you apparently, mistakenly, think that the cover system is innovative. Granted, it is a bold step, but it is really nothing more than a glorified stealth mode/WoW stance hybrid. The cover-ability mechanics function the same way stealth and stance mechanics in WoW do.

 

Add to that that it ACTUALLY DOESN'T WORK. There's tons of things broken with it momentarily, especially in PvP where it is next to useless. What use is cover against a force-charging Jedi Knight?

 

Crafting only has one thing that relates to WoW's, you can still find materials in the field to gather but that's it. The system is innovative because it does not waste your precious time!

 

Can trolls be reasoned? I intend to test that theory this instant! All MMO's feed off one another's ideas in order to succeed. It is a little thing called COMPETITION!!!

[DesleDarksyde]

If any of you disagree, I challenge you to name me ONE THING that Bioware innovated upon. One. Single. Thing.

 

Cover system....

 

/thread

[Daedricshots]

Yep, I love sending my pets in Wow on missions to gather mats, craft stuff, or collect gold.

I always have 3 pets out on missions (In Wow), while I keep one to fight with me.

 

I also love the pet-story lines in WoW!

They are really cool, don't you think?

 

Ya and i love how i can reverse engineer gear in WoW for blue/epic recipies. Oh wait.....

[jeinasindorei]

Companions are in WoW - they're called pets.

 

The crafting system is no different than WoW. The only difference is that you can send your pet to craft things. Hardly innovative.

 

Bonus quests while in a quest area are already in WoW if you've played after patch 4.0.

 

Space Combat - you mean that rail-shooter? Are you saying that Bioware invented rail-shooters? LOL

 

Advanced classes - glorified talent trees? Sorry, superior talent trees already exist in WoW.

 

My pets don't have stories nor contribute to conversations. Plus only two classes have them. Nor can I trust my pets in WoW to interrupt and taunt without manually telling them to.

 

I tried telling my pet to go collect some rare materials for me while I ran flags in WSG. He just stared at me.

 

I tried to learn to make blues by destroying my greens in WoW. Turns out that isn't possible.

 

Face it, you're just a stubborn WoW fan who refuses or ignores any reasonable attempt to answer your previous question. All you're trying to do is rally support for your own stubborn opinion. I'm beginning to think you don't even know what innovative means.

[Xugos]

Cover system....

 

/thread

 

------>

 

 

 

 

Alright, so you apparently, mistakenly, think that the cover system is innovative. Granted, it is a bold step, but it is really nothing more than a glorified stealth mode/WoW stance hybrid. The cover-ability mechanics function the same way stealth and stance mechanics in WoW do.

 

Add to that that it ACTUALLY DOESN'T WORK. There's tons of things broken with it momentarily, especially in PvP where it is next to useless. What use is cover against a force-charging Jedi Knight?

[Xugos]

My pets don't have stories nor contribute to conversations. Plus only two classes have them. Nor can I trust my pets in WoW to interrupt and taunt without manually telling them to.

 

It's called auto-cast. Stop pretending that Bioware has a companion AI: it doesn't. Your companions function exactly the same way pets do in WoW.

[Meltaman]

It's called auto-cast. Stop pretending that Bioware has a companion AI: it doesn't. Your companions function exactly the same way pets do in WoW.

 

Isn't that what they are for? To assist you in combat? Other than all the wonderful things BioWare gave them?

Edited January 8, 2012 by Meltaman

[Thaonnor]

And wows quests are not the same. I remeber doing a huge amount of the same quests with different toon classes. So your point is null and void.

 

World of Warcraft did not have quests that changed based on your class. They had class quests, but the side quests (the majority of quests in the games) were not different. This is a fact, you can deny the fact all you want, it is still a fact, making my point still valid.

 

My point is that in World of Warcraft, I didn't have to wade through hours of wasted time space baring through conversations, I just picked up a quest, killed the ****, and went on my way. I wasn't told from the very beginning that I should care about the story. Because in SWTOR, the first time through you WANT to listen to the story, you WANT to follow it... its just that when you come back through the second time, the same quests with slight changes (that don't really change anything other than some random text that some people want to make sound like an amazing difference) and space bar through or watch the same "movie" over again. And again. And again.

[Majestic_Jazz]

I have a level 50, a level 38, a level 26, a level 18, two level 12s, a level 11 and a level 2.

 

I have not gotten tired of doing the same quests. I enjoy seeing different reactions when making different conversation choices. I like seeing if choosing one option opens up a different conversation tree than the one I did on my previous characters. I like seeing the difference between LS and DS choices. The fact that all NPCs react differently to me depending on class/sex makes it interesting. The classes play differently enough that I don't mind actually doing the quests.

 

WoW never offered me that. Nor did any other MMO.

 

Agreed!

 

I played a LS Bounty Hunter in the Thanksgiving beta and now I am playing a DS Sith Warrior. Even though I am doing the same world quest, it feels like a new experience because of the unique voice actor for my character as the the female BH voice is a huge difference than the female SW voice.

 

Also like you said, NPCs react to me differently and carry a different tone! When I was a BH, people would just adruptly call me out like "Hunter! Over here!" or "You there, Mercenary, I need to talk to you!" But as a Sith Warrior, those same people would instead say "Excuse me my Lord, may I have a word with you?"

 

It is those small little things that makes the experience unique for me!

 

HOWEVER, it is only great for me because I am a person who finds story in ANY videogame to be the #1 most important thing. I must be able to loose myself in the character and immerse myself into the character to enjoy the game. That is why things like what I mentioned above make the game better for me. For anyone who isn't like me and finds stuff like.....PvP or.....UI more important, then the things I mentioned above are just menial to them or either outright irrelevant.

 

Its just a differences of opinions. The problem is, because these people don't like the said features or what SWTOR brings, they act like it is a universal belief so they must make it seem like EVERYONE things as they do and if they don't, then something is wrong with them.

 

I love the game 100%, they don't. Who cares! I'll be here months from now and they won't, and I can't wait!

[Daedricshots]

I pointed out why those 'innovations' are not actually Bioware's innovations because WoW had them before SW:TOR did.

 

 

I see you're taking your ball and crying home. Go for it.

 

Nope it you who are the complainer here. This entire thread is a blatant example of your malcontent with the game. Yet you feel the need to make nonsensical threads looking for a reason to play the game because you cant bring yourself to go back to playing wow.

 

Thats what all the complainers here are mad about, the fact that swtor isnt what they wanted but they cant go back to playing wow. Such a paradox, its almost comical.