Does this Game...

[C-Bee]

How can one say that.. all you need to do is look at the numbers. 500,000 to (conservatively) 10 million, with at least 2 more expansions in the bag. Not only is it in the defining factor in the industry 10 years ago, it's what EVERY game released strives to be NOW. It's STILL the defining factor, man. It's a phenomenon and recognized as such. I know this may be hard to admit, but admitting is the first step..

 

I think you are mixing convenient and defining here... WOW is not what it is just because it's so great. It got to where it is by releasing at the right moment or the convenient moment (when there was literally no competition on the market). Even people @ Blizzard realize this, which is why they try to roll out new and different things to keep their customers. Regardless of this effort WOW's market share has gone down on every quarter while customers find new and BETTER games to play. It's just that moving a mass from one game to another doesn't happen over night.

 

So I can say what I said by being rational... (and looking at the numbers since you seem to think they are of such importance)

[Feelinestars]

Definitely no

 

In my opinion Mass Effect 2 felt like a complete game, swtor is no where near on par to that game, which is really sad.

 

Exactly. It's sad that a single-player game is miles above this supposed MMO with years of "development" and a 300 million dollar budget. Honestly, BioWare may fold or EA may sell this division after this flop. Someone's head will see the chopping block. Someone has to be held responsible for this.

[Hatslinger]

I think what TOR really does well is bring in new players to the community. When I started WoW in... what, August? This past year, at first it was pretty good for the first 20 lvls or so. Then, I must've hit the point where everyone's alts were at. Horrible community filled with tank queens, GO NOW GO GO attitude in dunj, mind numbingly dull leveling process and the lore wasn't exactly easily accesible to someone that just subcribed. Had my cousin not been a WoW fanboy, then I would have had absolutely no freaking idea who the hell Deathwing was. Or anyone from the original Warcraft games for that matter. I quit after the first month at a lvl 42 nelf hunter. It just wasn't fun.

 

TOR by comparison drew me in immediately. Everyone has a fresh plate and the community has been much better. Leveling process is amazing, the lore is easily accesible. TOR will be my first experience with end game, and I'm pretty excited for that. While this game has flaws, and bugs, I'm actually willing to wait for fixes. Nothing good will come out of announcing that this game will fail before it has a chance to get anywhere. I think that many nay sayers had their expectations set too high. While it's unrealistic to attempt to compare TOR to vanilla WoW, it is just as ridiculous to compare it to the WoW of now. Of course WoW endgame will be better, there's seven years worth of the stuff to play. For what we have now this game is great. We just need to give it time.

[Feelinestars]

So does that mean that Call of Duty is the defining game every FPS should strive to be? Hell no! All games play differently (or at least should). Simply because WoW had (supposedly) 11 million subscribers at one time does not at all mean every single MMO to ever come out now should play and function in exactly the same manner. Also, if you are going to bring up the fact that most recent MMOs only tried to emulate WoW rather than do things their own way, all those games also flopped.

 

Well, they didn't have a winning component then.. those games that flopped. They flopped for reasons other than mimicking the best game ever created, WoW. This is where the trolls will come in and say I'm trolling, but it's true.

 

And no sir, not all FPS's should mimick Call of Duty.. but they should all have standard FPS features, right? Where's all the 2012 standard MMO features in SW:TOR? Oh wait, by "design choice" they weren't implemented. How STUPID is that?

[CupieFoxtail]

Exactly. It's sad that a single-player game is miles above this supposed MMO with years of "development" and a 300 million dollar budget. Honestly, BioWare may fold or EA may sell this division after this flop. Someone's head will see the chopping block. Someone has to be held responsible for this.

 

TL;DR a person presenting opinions as facts

This signals the end of the human race as we know it, we have devolved into chimps

[Feelinestars]

A feeling is not a fact. If you actually believe that, feel free to try the real world and promptly fail a everything there as well.

 

"feel free to try the real world and promptly fail a everything there as well"

 

Exit this thread, you're not adding any substance, sir.

[gurugeorge]

What's funny is, I guarantee 100% of the people posting in this thread currently have at least 1 WoW subscription.

 

Don't even deny it or argue it.

 

I played WoW for a while, and really enjoyed it. I think it's a brilliantly well-designed game. Not my cup of tea in the lore and art design department, but a great game.

 

I also enjoy SWTOR and think it's a brilliantly well-designed game. It has different strengths from WoW. For the casual player, the strength will be in rolling alts and experiencing all the stories through. For that to work, BW will have to keep adding more and varied intermediary shared content as well as endgame content, but you're in no position to say objectively whether they can do that or not.

 

I've also played about a zillion other MMOs, and all of them have good and bad points.

 

But they're all different. They all have strengths and weaknesses. At the moment I, and evidently around a million other people, apparently enjoy playing SWTOR.

 

Of course time will tell, but I think you are underestimating SWTOR's strengths. As someone said above, the buzz in-game and on the forums is much different from the buzz I recall from many recent "big" MMO releases (AoC, TR, WAR, Aion, Rift). Perhaps it's different on your server, or among your guildies, but on my server I seldom see any ************ in General. In fact, what I see mostly is a typical "busy" chat, with lots of questions and replies, and the occasional "loving it" type of comment.

 

On a more serious note, and taking a speculative stab at what's going to happen, I think the real "WoW-killer" will be GW2. SWTOR will find its own audience. It will probably settle around 5-800k subscribers for a while, but it has a chance to gradually increase subs up past the milliion mark if it sticks to its strengths and doesn't try to out-WoW WoW. It's by no means written in stone that an MMO must inevitably decline after the initial first month dip. WoW didn't do that, and EVE didn't do that. Nor did some earlier MMOs. They all grew after the initial dip. There's no reason why SWTOR can't do that too, provided they can keep pumping out fresh content of the kind that appeals to their audience (i.e. storyline mostly, but also more endgame for those who do like the combat style of SWTOR).

 

It's already been proven that trying to out-WoW WoW just doesn't work. Rift was by far the best attempt, and it's already on the decline. What WoW fanbois really need to prise them away from WoW is a fresh take on competitive MMOs, which GW2 has a good chance of offering.

 

But SWTOR has a different audience, and has its own market to seek, and my sense is that it is finding it. I've already noticed (e.g from the "age" thread) that it looks like there's quite a big female gamer audience for this game, the biggest I've noticed since City of Heroes (which held the previous record for high female to male gamer ratio). I suspect it will be older gamers, female gamers, couples and families, and CRPG enthusiasts who make up the bulk of SWTOR's subscriptions at the end of the day.

Edited January 8, 2012 by gurugeorge

[Feelinestars]

If you dont know what im referring to there is no hope for you. (hint: mmo king)

 

if me enjoying this game makes me a biodrone then ill happily admit being one.

 

Let me ask you an honest question, forget this thread entirely. Put aside everything I've said and everything you've said.

 

Man to man. You think SW:TOR will be the new king of MMO's? Honestly bro, do you TRULY.. DEEP DOWN believe that? I just want to know.

[StealthLightning]

Bugs aside, what are they missing in this game from other MMO's? Don't even think of saying a combat long or DF, because both of those kill the community in an MMO. Just look at WoW, the community has sucked donkey since they incorporated the DF, and combat logs just make it so people can't play the way they want, because every spec will have a cookie-cutter spec that people will HAVE to use or not get into a raid.

 

MMO's are about variety and teamwork, and both of those kill it.

 

Also, if they added an LFG channel, it would just turn into a global general chat, which would suck really really bad.

 

I could go on, but SWTOR has all the things you want in an MMO and left out all the things that has made other MMO's suck donkey and made people leave them for SWTOR, because they wanted something different.

 

See the lack of all the features you mentioned is what is going to cause me(and a lot of other users) to quit the game. Combat logs, mods and dungeon finder are all extremely popular features in other games.

 

The lack of mods in particular bodes poorly for the longevity of the game. Mods let users customize things to be better for them and tell Bioware what users want.

[CupieFoxtail]

Let me ask you an honest question, forget this thread entirely. Put aside everything I've said and everything you've said.

 

Man to man. You think SW:TOR will be the new king of MMO's? Honestly bro, do you TRULY.. DEEP DOWN believe that? I just want to know.

 

It will be the king of MMORPG's, because you actually play the role of a character

In WoW you play as a soulless loot-fiend. Has as effective character development as ice climbers

Edited January 8, 2012 by CupieFoxtail

[mcburly]

Let me ask you an honest question, forget this thread entirely. Put aside everything I've said and everything you've said.

 

Man to man. You think SW:TOR will be the new king of MMO's? Honestly bro, do you TRULY.. DEEP DOWN believe that? I just want to know.

 

youve already asked me that and already told you YES

[Feelinestars]

I played WoW for a while, and really enjoyed it. I think it's a brilliantly well-designed game. Not my cup of tea in the lore and art design department, but a great game.

 

I also enjoy SWTOR and think it's a brilliantly well-designed game. It has different strengths from WoW. For the casual player, the strength will be in rolling alts and experiencing all the stories through. For that to work, BW will have to keep adding more and varied intermediary shared content as well as endgame content, but you're in no position to say objectively whether they can do that or not.

 

I've also played about a zillion other MMOs, and all of them have good and bad points.

 

But they're all different. They all have strengths and weaknesses. At the moment I, and evidently around a million other people, apparently enjoy playing SWTOR.

 

Of course time will tell, but I think you are underestimating SWTOR's strengths. As someone said above, the buzz in-game and on the forums is much different from the buzz I recall from many recent "big" MMO releases (AoC, TR, WAR, Aion, Rift). Perhaps it's different on your server, or among your guildies, but on my server I seldom see any ************ in General. In fact, what I see mostly is a typical "busy" chat, with lots of questions and replies, and the occasional "loving it" type of comment.

 

On a more serious note, and taking a speculative stab at what's going to happen, I think the real "WoW-killer" will be GW2. SWTOR will find its own audience. It will probably settle around 5-800k subscribers for a while, but it has a chance to gradually increase subs up past the milliion mark if it sticks to its strengths and doesn't try to out-WoW WoW. It's by no means written in stone that an MMO must inevitably decline after the initial first month dip. WoW didn't do that, and EVE didn't do that. Nor did some earlier MMOs. They all grew after the initial dip. There's no reason why SWTOR can't do that too, provided they can keep pumping out fresh content of the kind that appeals to their audience (i.e. storyline mostly, but also more endgame for those who do like the combat style of SWTOR).

 

It's already been proven that trying to out-WoW WoW just doesn't work. Rift was by far the best attempt, and it's already on the decline. What WoW fanbois really need to prise them away from WoW is a fresh take on competitive MMOs, which GW2 has a good chance of offering.

 

But SWTOR has a different audience, and has its own market to seek, and my sense is that it is finding it. I've already noticed (e.g from the "age" thread) that it looks like there's quite a big female gamer audience for this game, the biggest I've noticed since City of Heroes (which held the previous record for high female to male gamer ratio). I suspect it will be female gamers, couples and families, and CRPG enthusiasts who make up the bulk of SWTOR's subscriptions at the end of the day.

 

Thank you so much for this constructive, thought-out, calm, intelligent response. I agree with you that SW:TOR will most likely peak at 500-800k for it's life, and it'll have it's own little niche in the MMO world. I wish that with the Star Wars name behind it, it would have nailed it out of the park.. but it seems BioWare had other plans. What those grand plans were, I'm not sure.. but it seems they did indeed have other plans.

 

I also hope GW2 is amazing, it does have potential. But.. it's sort of crazy to think that we're already putting SW:TOR in the past and hoping that GW2 will be better 3 weeks after this behemoth was released. It's depressing, in a way.

[LX_Theo]

Let me ask you an honest question, forget this thread entirely. Put aside everything I've said and everything you've said.

 

Man to man. You think SW:TOR will be the new king of MMO's? Honestly bro, do you TRULY.. DEEP DOWN believe that? I just want to know.

 

Anyone reasonable will see that WoW is dying, and MMOs will become like any other genre. There will be no king, just a large group of quality MMOs carving out their place in the market.

[Feelinestars]

See the lack of all the features you mentioned is what is going to cause me(and a lot of other users) to quit the game. Combat logs, mods and dungeon finder are all extremely popular features in other games.

 

The lack of mods in particular bodes poorly for the longevity of the game. Mods let users customize things to be better for them and tell Bioware what users want.

 

This is precisely my point. The LACK of these features is why this game is ultimately a giant failure.

[CupieFoxtail]

This is precisely my point. The LACK of these features is why this game is ultimately a giant failure.

 

If you want a feature list exactly the same as WoW

PLAY WOW

Honestly, some people....

[mcburly]

See the lack of all the features you mentioned is what is going to cause me(and a lot of other users) to quit the game. Combat logs, mods and dungeon finder are all extremely popular features in other games.

 

The lack of mods in particular bodes poorly for the longevity of the game. Mods let users customize things to be better for them and tell Bioware what users want.

 

TRUST ME, those features really arent that critical or else A LOT more mmos would have them. Currently most dont.

[Kemosobe]

I think what TOR really does well is bring in new players to the community. When I started WoW in... what, August? This past year, at first it was pretty good for the first 20 lvls or so. Then, I must've hit the point where everyone's alts were at. Horrible community filled with tank queens, GO NOW GO GO attitude in dunj, mind numbingly dull leveling process and the lore wasn't exactly easily accesible to someone that just subcribed. Had my cousin not been a WoW fanboy, then I would have had absolutely no freaking idea who the hell Deathwing was. Or anyone from the original Warcraft games for that matter. I quit after the first month at a lvl 42 nelf hunter. It just wasn't fun.

 

TOR by comparison drew me in immediately. Everyone has a fresh plate and the community has been much better. Leveling process is amazing, the lore is easily accesible. TOR will be my first experience with end game, and I'm pretty excited for that. While this game has flaws, and bugs, I'm actually willing to wait for fixes. Nothing good will come out of announcing that this game will fail before it has a chance to get anywhere. I think that many nay sayers had their expectations set too high. While it's unrealistic to attempt to compare TOR to vanilla WoW, it is just as ridiculous to compare it to the WoW of now. Of course WoW endgame will be better, there's seven years worth of the stuff to play. For what we have now this game is great. We just need to give it time.

 

/agree

 

Also, it is just hard to get into any MMO that has been out for more than 2-3 years. Everyone currently playing it already is at max level which means there are less people to level with. If they do make alts and are leveling while trying to do group things, they do not even try and allow new players to get a grasp of something they have been playing for years. Everyone having a clean slate with this MMO is the best thing about new MMOs, everyone is stupid when it comes to the game.

[Feelinestars]

It will be the king of MMORPG's, because you actually play the role of a character

In WoW you play as a soulless loot-fiend. Has as effective character development as ice climbers

 

I think 11,000,000 people would like to have a word with you, sir.

 

All jokes aside, I feel no connection to my SW:TOR character. I pull 3 mobs, I heal up. I run down ANOTHER corridor with different colors and lag a little when I charge into mobs. It's such a depressing thing.. We all had such high hopes for this game.

 

Let's not hype the next big MMO so the same thing doesn't happen as what's happening with this game.

[mcburly]

I think 11,000,000 people would like to have a word with you, sir.

 

All jokes aside, I feel no connection to my SW:TOR character. I pull 3 mobs, I heal up. I run down ANOTHER corridor with different colors and lag a little when I charge into mobs. It's such a depressing thing.. We all had such high hopes for this game.

 

Let's not hype the next big MMO so the same thing doesn't happen as what's happening with this game.

 

those 11 million you speak of didnt have that option prior to this game.

[LX_Theo]

I think 11,000,000 people would like to have a word with you, sir.

 

All jokes aside, I feel no connection to my SW:TOR character. I pull 3 mobs, I heal up. I run down ANOTHER corridor with different colors and lag a little when I charge into mobs. It's such a depressing thing.. We all had such high hopes for this game.

 

Let's not hype the next big MMO so the same thing doesn't happen as what's happening with this game.

 

It sounds like you've yet to start a conversation in game...

 

By the way, that's how the game starts *facepalm*

[Feelinestars]

Anyone reasonable will see that WoW is dying, and MMOs will become like any other genre. There will be no king, just a large group of quality MMOs carving out their place in the market.

 

.. and who will still be king? LOL.. I'm only arguing what he said. He said SW:TOR will be the new MMO king.

 

And by king, I mean an absolute behemoth in terms of community, subscriptions, and content. This is how I see the next year playing out:

 

WoWx5 = top (as usual.. nothing can touch it, really)

GW2 = Great game, good launch, retains 1mil plus subscribers its first year..

Rift = Continues to retain 750-1mil subscribers

SW:TOR = Peaks at 500k subscribers, possibly F2P within the year

 

This is opinion and projection on my part, please don't hate me for my opinion.

[Feelinestars]

those 11 million you speak of didnt have that option prior to this game.

 

Well.. they have the option now.. where are they? :/

[Kemosobe]

I think 11,000,000 people would like to have a word with you, sir.

 

All jokes aside, I feel no connection to my SW:TOR character. I pull 3 mobs, I heal up. I run down ANOTHER corridor with different colors and lag a little when I charge into mobs. It's such a depressing thing.. We all had such high hopes for this game.

 

Let's not hype the next big MMO so the same thing doesn't happen as what's happening with this game.

 

Just because YOU overhyped the game for yourself does not at all make it a bad game. Every single little thing I ever heard Bioware talk about from the moment they announced this game to its release on the 20th did in fact get put into the game.

[maximusedward]

If this game cost so much to make then a brand new challenger like rift must've cost a fortune.

[LX_Theo]

.. and who will still be king? LOL.. I'm only arguing what he said. He said SW:TOR will be the new MMO king.

 

And by king, I mean an absolute behemoth in terms of community, subscriptions, and content. This is how I see the next year playing out:

 

WoWx5 = top (as usual.. nothing can touch it, really)

GW2 = Great game, good launch, retains 1mil plus subscribers its first year..

Rift = Continues to retain 750-1mil subscribers

SW:TOR = Peaks at 500k subscribers, possibly F2P within the year

 

This is opinion and projection on my part, please don't hate me for my opinion.

 

Do you read? Or just spout out the same thing people disagree with again and again?

 

Respond to my point. Or respond to his post he made his opinion clear. Don't ramble around about nothing related to what you're quoting. That's pretty bad fail on your part.