Bad DPS habits

[Rashne]

I just had to come vent for a second. Spent the afternoon running FP's and the DPS was breaking CC, not letting me lead in on threat, not focusing, ignoring non elites, etc. And then had the audacity to complain about aggro. I finally had enough and let them tank an elite after they broke my Mind Maze.

 

I also had the healer trying to DPS mobs and not pay attention to healing. I must have died 3 or 4 times because of this. This is so GD irritating.

 

Ok, carry on with your day.

[Magnesium]

You can't really stop bad players from being bad but rather try your best to educate them.

 

PvE and PvP rely so much on human thought process at times about what to do in certain situations and it is something some understand quickly and others longer, though a healer trying to DPS is more off that line for sure.

[Ardwan]

Yeah, I feel your pain.

 

My biggest annoyance:

 

* The sheer volume of people who don't use the Interrupt skill.

Enemy paints a big bullseye on the ground, and entire groups will just run away rather than using interrupt and carrying on. Or just take a Full Auto or missile barrage without trying to interrupt it.

 

* Being in a group that just pulled an entire group of elites without bothering to let you CC, and you just about manage to keep everyone alive, so they continue doing it.

 

* Jedi Knights - We realise that you don't need downtime between fights and that Force leap is fun, but try to let your healer and group re-gain at least half their energy back before force leaping into the next group of elites.

 

* Looting during combat - Almost the best way to forfeit your right to be healed.

[jonbaptist]

As a healer I dont cc, not my job unfortunately. I let them reap what the sow.

[Stevegasm]

Yeah, I feel your pain.

 

* Jedi Knights - We realise that you don't need downtime between fights and that Force leap is fun, but try to let your healer and group re-gain at least half their energy back before force leaping into the next group of elites.

 

 

This is just like warriors were in Vanilla WoW. Not to mention force leap pulls aggro from everything that the tank needs to get back. The Sentinel is beginning to be one of those classes I'm starting to become weary of grouping with. Guardians, so far, I'm cool with.

 

I think my biggest problem is that most DPS seem to be playing this game like it's post LFD WoW. AOE tanking in this game isn't easier, neither is AOE healing, and there is a lack of emergency abilities, big heals, and quick heals. CC and tactics are important to this game.

[artilleryshell]

i would like to interject: some warriors.

 

I was a warrior tank and I pulled responsibly.

 

I agree with the cut of your jib, but some of us warriors rolled shadow tanks because they are so very different. (and love them!)

[Happyfunball]

As a Balance Sage I'm not a pure healer to begin with, but with a good group I can usually hold my own for now (just hitting my 30s). Unfortunately, a large amount of people seem incapable of a) not waiting for targets to be marked, b) not waiting for CC to be put into place, c) not using their CC anyway, and d) breaking the one CC that is being used -- MINE -- with AoE attacks. It also doesn't help that those same people somehow can't focus down mobs and think fighting one mob each is the way to go. And to top it all off they seemingly have no concept of re-CCing mobs after the minute cooldown has expired (because with groups like that it's usually needed). So angering...

 

All that changes however if I'm lucky enough to get into a group that understands how these things all function. And I have to admit, as frustrating as it can be I much prefer the game to be unforgiving in nature than to allow horrible play to go unpunished.

[Bilirubin]

Not to mention force leap pulls aggro from everything that the tank needs to get back. The Sentinel is beginning to be one of those classes I'm starting to become weary of grouping with.

 

Sadly agreed. In fact now that I have Tharen I can almost solo all heroic 2+s (I had to mind maze then escape one champion on Nar Shaddaa that proved too much for just us alone, but took down the rest) so I'm getting more impatient about getting a group together.

[kimaji]

Yeah...

 

As a shadow my biggest gripe is just barely surviving the first set of mobs in a group, so I say hey, I can CC as long as its before combat, and then 1 of 2 things always seems to happen...

 

Warrior leaps anyway, or, even more annoying to me personally...

 

Someone else using a CC that enters us into combat - looking at you sages! lol - Let me CC mine before you do yours, because mind maze does not enter us into combat and can only be used outside of combat!

[Fion]

Unfortunately most players come from WoW, where in the last four years the game has become Tank & Spank with hardly any need for CC in the entire game. Because of this you have all these people with the bad habit of just running in and unloading everything and when it doesn't work out, they get aggro fast or dead, they ***** and moan.

 

None of them use the plethora of interrupts the game has, or let the CC classes use their stuns and mez's. They are all so used to face rolling content in WoW, a game that has become synonymous with easy mode, that they all have to learn how to play an MMOG again.

 

Frankly it's going to be even worse in a game like Guild Wars 2 where every player basically has to take care of themselves and learn their class and the games dynamics (which are on the whole different from WoW). That game is going to be all about personal responsibility as there are no healers or tanks.

 

I think those of us who aren't as big a WoW players (I haven't played it a year+, so I'm frankly used to MMOGs where you have to use your abilities and your head to win them) just need to be patient, and help teach the 'rush through, face roll' WoW players how to play an MMOG again.

Edited January 8, 2012 by Fion

[IkritTOR]

I am just going to say that, as a guy new to MMORPGs (except Star Trek Online, but that was just different; there was no tanking, just DPS and healing), it is very easy to just go in without thinking. The only reason I know about markers and the proper way to deal with Heroic/FP groups is because I started duo-questing with a friend from my guild. As we have been leveling (he's a Tank Shadow, I'm a Healer Sage, so we grab the DPS for Heroic 4's), he has been teaching me about how to not pull groups before him, how to mark targets, and how to use that 1-minute CC effectively (I thought it was worthless except on the Alderaan Warzone). I have been lucky to learn from a guildmate, but others don't get that.

 

Please teach others about how to avoid tanking a group as the DPS/Healer, and show them the proper way to engage. If they don't learn about it at low levels, we'll be doing level 50 FP's with pugs who just don't know how to raid. At low levels, the difference between a tank and a DPS is much less than at level 30 or 50, so they just assume they can jump in all the time because all characters are created equal and it's just KILL KILL KILL. A number of these players are also just here for Star Wars and not as much for the MMO. They don't know what they are doing, but be patient with them, please!

 

Then again, I know how bad initiating a fight as a DPS can be; it's punishing in League of Legends. Different scenario, same rules: the tank goes first!

Edited January 8, 2012 by IkritTOR

[DigitalWar]

I am constantly leaving groups and letting them hang because of bad dps and healers. And yes they say why cant i get the agro when they lead into a fight before i do. Such bad habbits start early, and their excuse's are always well its a lower lvl instance or i have more health than you never mind im 5 lvls above you.... When i am maxed on my gear and u are maxed 5 lvls above me, i am pretty sure u will have more health, but u dont get the defense i do, but try explaining that to these kids heh.

As i stated i leave most groups hanging. i dont have time for bad groups, and as a tank i always have another run around the corner while they sit and wait in groupfinder.

 

Another thing is I also play dps and as a healer on other toons. I know what a bad tank looks like from the outside looking in. 80% of the runs i do as a healer are with bad tanks and dps... the fact that dps wont let the tank get agro and or the bad tanks grab 1-2 mobs and say they are tanking while the rest of the mobs are trying to kill me say volumes of people not understanding the dynamics of the holy trinity tank, heal and dps roles. anyways im sure there is a thread on bad tanks ill get to eventually. In the mean time these tanks dont speak out against the bad dpser's and just go along with it so everyone thinks its just fine with what they are doing. people will not learn unless its pointed out. I do this daily unfortunately with my 55's and my lower toons.

 

People who think we have a magic agro wand are just annoying. I for one choose to add them to ignore and not give them the benefit of having a great tank to finish their instances in a timely and death free manner.

[kenscottiii]

I rarely post but couldn't resist such a great topic. I play all three roles and run in regular ops groups. I know how to play each role properly and really enjoy doing all three. I have developed a few habits along the way dealing with this very issue. I always give the offender (s) a friendly warning and some guidance if they just don't know how to play their spec. After I've done so....

When I'm tanking, if I get a jumpy dps that keeps leaping to elites before I get there, I just simply refuse to taunt, if they want it so bad....they can have it. I generally warn the healer when I do though

Sometimes as a preventative measure (especially when I'm on the shadow) I just blaze ahead and stay a few seconds in front (with my eye on heals' resources)

When I'm healing (after warning tank) I just simply let them die if they jump ahead of the tank. After a few times of that they usually get it. I refuse to burn up all my force trying to keep a foolish dps alive...properly geared tanks are much easier to heal.

My main is a dps shadow and I pay extra attention to my interrupts and focus target, if I see I'm the life of the party, I use my agro drop and try to keep threat low for a bit.

It's one thing to not know MMO roles (I came from a FPS background...this is my first MMO), but it's another to just disregard them.

[ItachiZaku]

I CC and use stuns all the time, as tank, heals, or deeps, I feel it only helps the team. Some CC is impossible with how aoe breaks it, but one problem i've had is LOS pulling and people flying into battle with me or slightly ahead of me. I don't have an aoe taunt really, only so much FB and WW can do.

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

As a healer I dont cc, not my job unfortunately. I let them reap what the sow.

 

That's a good way to get you kicked from one of my groups. all 3 healer classes have atleast 1 CC (Scoundrels have 2) If you can CC the mob, CC it.

 

I had a tank last night in Foundry SM (PT). Who NEVER used Jet Charge, after telling him to use Flame Burst and Flame Sweep he did, and taunted every time he lost aggro... AND Broke CC's left and right! The group was Me (Deception Sin), My dad (Lethality Operative) and the healer (Bodyguard Mercinary). So there were PLENTY of CC's to be had. But the tank either, A. Explosive Dart > Unload > Run to them with Rapid Shots. or pulled the CC'd target... Every damn time i didnt see him use Jet Charge, i wanted to kick him for not knowing how to tank, BUT tanks on The Harbinger at mid level are really hard to find...

 

Here's a lesson to you tanks, try not to Break CC. And, Learn how to play your tank class.

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

I rarely post but couldn't resist such a great topic. I play all three roles and run in regular ops groups. I know how to play each role properly and really enjoy doing all three. I have developed a few habits along the way dealing with this very issue. I always give the offender (s) a friendly warning and some guidance if they just don't know how to play their spec. After I've done so....

When I'm tanking, if I get a jumpy dps that keeps leaping to elites before I get there, I just simply refuse to taunt, if they want it so bad....they can have it. I generally warn the healer when I do though

Sometimes as a preventative measure (especially when I'm on the shadow) I just blaze ahead and stay a few seconds in front (with my eye on heals' resources)

When I'm healing (after warning tank) I just simply let them die if they jump ahead of the tank. After a few times of that they usually get it. I refuse to burn up all my force trying to keep a foolish dps alive...properly geared tanks are much easier to heal.

My main is a dps shadow and I pay extra attention to my interrupts and focus target, if I see I'm the life of the party, I use my agro drop and try to keep threat low for a bit.

It's one thing to not know MMO roles (I came from a FPS background...this is my first MMO), but it's another to just disregard them.

 

Great Post, but as a DPS Sin, you have no true Aggro Dump, just your Force cloak to dump all threat and put you in stealth. and as a Healer in Ops i hope you heal those jumpy DPS who leap forward into combat before the tank...

[venomlash]

The classes that tend to be the most trouble are sentinels and the occasional trooper. Bad sents have an annoying tendency to use Twin Saber Throw AFTER they leap in rather than BEFORE, often pulling the group behind us. Troopers, if they have no idea how to play the class, often just spam Explosive Round, whose tiny AoE serves no purpose but to break CC.

 

But yeah, it's a pain. You'd think it would be easy to NOT be incredibly bad, but sadly, there are loads of inconsiderate DPS out there. My policy is to give one or two warnings, then vote to kick if they don't at least TRY to improve their tactics.

[AlrikFassbauer]

I also had the healer trying to DPS mobs and not pay attention to healing. I must have died 3 or 4 times because of this. This is so GD irritating.

 

Well, a friend of mine does have an DD Sage - and she does it relatively fine (apartt from not having perfect gear).

 

I think you should not depend of assuming an Sage (or any other healing class) looking like a Healr - I'd rather suggest to explicitely ask whether this character is for DD or Healing.

 

This can resolve problems like this.

 

Don't judge people after their looks.

[ItachiZaku]

the occasional trooper.

Dude! I just went to town on my trooper the last couple of days and DAMN. I can't believe the amount of AOE abilities we have. My 55 Sorc has 1... my 21 trooper has 5! First run in Athiss, shadow tank who was CCing everything, we barely killed non-boss mobs and I was pretty scared about what I could and couldn't do (I don't want to be THAT GUY) but I had enough with grav shot and full auto to do nice dps. Re-queue and got a guardian tank that felt the need to kill EVERYTHING in the instance, I loved it. Leveling two tanks with completely different styles makes you learn to use and respect CCers.

[teclado]

Well, a friend of mine does have an DD Sage - and she does it relatively fine (apartt from not having perfect gear).

 

I think you should not depend of assuming an Sage (or any other healing class) looking like a Healr - I'd rather suggest to explicitely ask whether this character is for DD or Healing.

 

This can resolve problems like this.

 

Don't judge people after their looks.

I think we're talking group finder here. So, that person would have to queue as a healer in order to be appointed the healer. So, this character would have been explicitly declared the healer by the queue system. Absolutely no ambiguity there. There are some who queue as a healer without understanding it, though. I'm guessing this was one of those times.

[Belegnole]

I think what many people forget is that most people do not know how to play the multi player aspect of this or any MMO. The vast majority of these players don't come to the forums, and sure the heck aren't going to do the amount of research needed to even figure out the gibberish that is MMO speak. I am currently a solo player in this game because I haven't yet found a group where I can be tutored as a newb. Therefor if I was to play around on the group finder I would also be one of those people who broke CC. Probably because I was used to playing solo and didn't even know I had done it. Unlike the aforementioned uneducated masses, I would like to advance an learn how to play this game better. Otherwise I will end up playing maybe eight toons through their story lines and quit. Because beyond level 50 solo is a bore.

[Projawa]

The last flashpoint that posed any real challenge was prenerf Lost Island.

 

I wonder how many of these players would do in an old school WoW heroic 5man like Shattered Halls or Shadow Labyrinth where good habits and a bit of creativity were required.

 

I've helped quite a few inexperienced LFG randoms in fps/ops because they asked questions and wanted to learn. The obstinate players that refuse to pull their weight go on /ignore

Edited January 10, 2014 by Projawa

[ItachiZaku]

WoW heroic 5man like Shadow Labyrinth where good habits and a bit of creativity were required.

 

 

The easiest time I ever had was with a Shaman tank. Yes, shaman with rockbiter and a shield. Very strange how that was the best option. Enh, Ret, Shadow priest, healing priest and rogue.

[Piati_Tojopi]

You can't really stop bad players from being bad but rather try your best to educate them.

 

PvE and PvP rely so much on human thought process at times about what to do in certain situations and it is something some understand quickly and others longer, though a healer trying to DPS is more off that line for sure.

Could be that the player had been playing mostly solo PvE and didn't make the adjustment when he went team.

[ScarletBlaze]

I think we're talking group finder here. So, that person would have to queue as a healer in order to be appointed the healer. So, this character would have been explicitly declared the healer by the queue system. Absolutely no ambiguity there. There are some who queue as a healer without understanding it, though. I'm guessing this was one of those times.

 

Group finder does mess up at times. My best friend que with a group last night and she has always chosen healer as her stats are healer but for some reason the group finder listed her as damage even though she specifically only chose healer.