Devoid Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) We need one. I have yet to have much trouble with this but just playing with my g/f and trying to explain the etiquette around asking before you need for gear that a player is going to were has seriously pointed out a lack in the current need/greed/pass system. A 4th option of "need for companion" that is above greed and below need would clear a lot of this up. I've been online gaming for well over a decade now and have been playing SWTOR since August. This is a new situation for most established MMO players and that makes is pretty hard to understand for some new players drawn by Star Wars or the story (i.e. my g/f). It was clear enough to me to ask before you need on a item for your companion but there is not reason we can't make this an automated part of the loot system since the standard 3 options don't account for all players having to gear NPC characters as part of the basic game. Edited January 7, 2012 by Devoid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 It already exists - it's labeled Greed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExpLiciTSainT Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Actually a good option. We usually play with a few friends so someone always asks, can I need this for my companion. It's nice to just by pass that with a button, cause if not, greed = credits at a vendor, which is why I green everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterEddard Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Hrrrm. I can see this being abused. Anyone can say they need it for a companion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhazz Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 It already exists - it's labeled Greed. Except that everyone greeds an item if they don't need it, which usually ends up getting sold to a vendor when it could have been put to use on a companion. What I usually do is wait to see if everyone is rolling greed. If they do, then people usually aren't going to care if you roll need for your companion since they've already indicated they don't need it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhazz Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Hrrrm. I can see this being abused. Anyone can say they need it for a companion. Anyone can say they need an item even if it isn't usable by your class...how's that any different? The game doesn't restricting "needing" an item if your class can't use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devoid Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) It already exists - it's labeled Greed. Greed is for things you want to sell not for things you want to use on your character. Using that logic I would need on things for my companion character not greed since I bind the item to my character. Need is for use on your character. Greed is for sell or another character. We need something in between so people don't take items that you need on your main character for their companion during a flashpoint yet they can still roll above greed since they plan to use the item (i.e. bind it to their character) not sell it. Edited January 7, 2012 by Devoid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaptenAlkohol Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Greed is for things you want to sell not for things you want to use on your character. Using that logic I would need on things for my companion character not greed since I bind the item to my character. Need is for use on your character. Greed is for sell or another character. We need something in between so people don't take items that you need on your main character for their companion during a flashpoint yet they can still roll above greed since they plan to use the item (i.e. bind it to their character) not sell it. I agree. A "need for companion" button shouldn't be that hard to implement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scryer Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 The problem with this is that people will abuse it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daganox Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 In the end it all boils down to personal ethics. As far as I am concerned, if my companion needs it then I need it as I hardly do anything without my companion i consider him part of my character. In one instance, I was the only ranged player grouped with three other jedi, 2 guns dropped from the bosses, of course I needed on both cause one was a modable blaster rifle ( i needed it) and the other was a modable assault cannon (my companion needed it). The jedi didn't mind at all. If a lightsabre had dropped i would've passed, not even greeded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 This is actually a very good idea. The problem with this is that people will abuse it. The point is to prevent the abuse of people needing on everything. There would be 4 options in descending order of hierarchy: Need for Player Character Need for Companion Greed Pass With the potential 5th of "disassemble" if you have someone with the appropriate skill. This means if you don't need an item for yourself but could upgrade your companion with it, you can hit the "Need for Companion", but someone who can USE the item can hit "Need for Player Character" and get priority. It still only works if people are polite, but most people are. Nothing is going to stop a rude person from just blindly needing on everything, even if all they can do is sell it to a vendor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revelationjp Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 In the end it all boils down to personal ethics. As far as I am concerned, if my companion needs it then I need it as I hardly do anything without my companion i consider him part of my character. In one instance, I was the only ranged player grouped with three other jedi, 2 guns dropped from the bosses, of course I needed on both cause one was a modable blaster rifle ( i needed it) and the other was a modable assault cannon (my companion needed it). The jedi didn't mind at all. If a lightsabre had dropped i would've passed, not even greeded. There was another thread about this exact same thing earlier, and the consensenses was that anything other than personal gear is always greed. So you could very well find yourself in a sticky situation. I would say that the best bet is to check with the group you're with. But that's just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devoid Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 The problem with this is that people will abuse it. People abuse the need button as well. That was not a reason to not have a need button. Ninja looters will still be treated as they are today. This is a grey area that does not have to be this way. I don't think a companion should win an item over a player but i also don't think that an item should be vendored before it goes to a character. I have watched people have problems with this for months now. My g/f follows Wheaton's Law (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Wheaton%27s%20Law) yet I had to cringe and take a few minutes to explain how she should roll for a companion character after I saw her need a orange heavy armor item for her main tanking companion and take it from a Sith Warrior who also needed it. Her reasoning was simple. "I needed it" and she was right she did need it. Just not as much as the warrior on his main. A "Need for Companion" option is a simple and clean answer to the new problem companion characters add into group looting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devoid Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) There was another thread about this exact same thing earlier, and the consensenses was that anything other than personal gear is always greed. So you could very well find yourself in a sticky situation. I would say that the best bet is to check with the group you're with. But that's just me. I do the same thing. I know the etiquette but that does not mean it cannot be automated. I remember typing "roll 1-100" in games to decide who got loot and that worked at the time as well. Not every one is you and me though. While you and me might understand the fine points of looting my g/f did not and if I had not noticed what she was doing would not know better and would still be doing it like many other players. To her it was clear because this is how it is in every other MMO she had limited experience with. If you want to use it and bind it to your character you need it. If you want to sell it you greed it. If you don't want it you pass it. Wearing a item on a companion character binds the item to your character so you can only use it on that character but you don't use the item on that character it self. That seems like pretty clear ground for a new option. In fact by checking with the group you are in you are doing a new age version of the roll commands of old. You are creating an additional option of need for companion character anyway you just have to use chat to do it. That is what i tell everyone to do right now as well. Why not add it as part of the built in loot system instead of trusting that everyone understands that they have to ask before they need roll? Edited January 7, 2012 by Devoid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHeadCapper Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 That's a pretty dang good idea, i like it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devoid Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 It seems like there might not be enough trolling in this thread to keep it alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparckus Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Very good idea, but in practice the same tools that click need without asking the group will continue to do so with or without dedicated button. Blocking the need option for items you cant equip on your own character would work better imo. To be honest though I don't know what the pitfalls of that option would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMasterShake Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Agree very strongly. Rated 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_Wannabe Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 The problem with this is that people will abuse it. People already abuse the Need button. "But I need money. But I need gear for all 5 of my companions." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scfs Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 The problem with this is that people will abuse it. how would you abuse a need for companion button over a flat out need button? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_Wannabe Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Very good idea, but in practice the same tools that click need without asking the group will continue to do so with or without dedicated button. Blocking the need option for items you cant equip on your own character would work better imo. To be honest though I don't know what the pitfalls of that option would be. One pitfall is the fact that most trooper companions use heavy armor and use Aim as their main stat, just like the trooper. So a trooper can roll Need for an item even if they already have a better one, and just say it's an upgrade for them when it's really for the companion. I think BW intended the Need button to include companions. But many players feel differently. We brought the issue up in beta but I never saw a response from the devs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SliceAntilles Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Except that everyone greeds an item if they don't need it, which usually ends up getting sold to a vendor when it could have been put to use on a companion. What I usually do is wait to see if everyone is rolling greed. If they do, then people usually aren't going to care if you roll need for your companion since they've already indicated they don't need it. So you're basically they guy everyone's complaining about. I still say who cares? Expect people to be greedy selfish immature little losers in a PUG, and you'll rarely be disappointed or surprised. Joining a PUG is for one reason and one reason only: mission complete. If you want loot: solo. If you want social adventure: friends and guild mates. Otherwise remember you're on the internet, and expect people to be... [imagine a long chain of explitives here]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devoid Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) Just because you don't like PUG's and don't expect much from your fellow players does not mean you can't have a system that makes it easier to not be an ninja looter. Another option would clear up a lot of the issues and just return us to dealing with the people who are abusing the system on purpose instead of dealing with people who just don't understand or don't agree with you on when to need. Plus it would be very convenient for everyone else instead of trying to decided if we can need it in chat every or if someone wants it for their character instead. Edited January 7, 2012 by Devoid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devoid Posted January 15, 2012 Author Share Posted January 15, 2012 Nothing that has been said so far changes the need for a Need for Companion button. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baaddare Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Hrrrm. I can see this being abused. Anyone can say they need it for a companion. ya but now you get people who wait till ever one has declared then they go I need this for my companion and roll need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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