Hey Devs any PVP love coming for Arsenal Mercs?

[Werdan]

what if the melee is always on you?

 

Merc can deliver a good amount of damage if the enemy ignores you,but currently all the melee classes have more options to catch us in close combats then us to mantain distances

 

before starting with the same story "oh but we have 2 knockdowns a stun a snare and an incapacitate",think about that,only 2 of our CCs are useful and 1 when combined with another ability,the other 2 are worthless or VERY situational

 

Jet boost:excellent knockback low CD if you are arsenal and applies a snare effect

 

Electro darth: our primary stun very good and with 1 Min of CD

 

rocket punch:useful only to kick an enemy off a ledge on huttbal,it's only 4m knockbacks,and the melee range is...guess what?4m!!!

 

concussion missile:2 seconds cast time is too long,and is absolutely impossible to land this shot on someone who is near you,you are going to get interrupted and killed,the only good application for this ability is by using it combined with power surge

 

Pinning fire:completely idiotic snare 2 second snare for an ability that requires you to stand still channeling,worst waste on 2 talent points EVER.

 

now let's take a look at the gap closers of the melee units

 

Juggernaut

 

this is the only melee class that we can fight due to the non extreme damage and their only gap closer wich is force leap.

 

Marauder

 

Extreme amount of damage,a good marauder is never going to approach you with the force leap since he knows that you have to stand still to attack,and even if you can pull it off he can just stealth himself or use the sprint to return at Close combat

 

Sith assassin

 

Another dps monster with 3 gap closers,Sprint,Stealth and force pull,completely impossible to take him off you and even if i can the time im able to land 2 tracer missiles he is back on me and can easily interrupt me and kill me with ease

 

Operative

well they can kill me in a single stun,the time i trinket they vanish sap stun and kill me

 

powertech

Nearly our same damage,1 very effective gap closer and if he is specced ST with 2 gap closers,godly damage mitigation,the time that i require to drain 40% of his HP im dead

 

in the end,im level 50 with full champion gear,when im backed up by my guild i can became someway useful due to the good damage,but that's it.

 

we are good group class but we are an ATROCIOUS 1v1 class

 

Rocket Punch is more like 7.5m. Slightly more of you hit them when they are around 2-3m away.

 

Most/all stuns are on a 1 min timer. Concussion missile can be specced to be shorter if you go high enough in Arsenal.

 

Pinning fire refreshes with each hit of Unload, so it lasts 4 seconds. On the first hit it applies a 2 second slow. 1 second later the second hit reapplies the slow. The third hit reapplies the slow and lasts the full 2 seconds for a total of 4 seconds.

 

Energy Shield lasts 12 seconds and reduces damage by 25%. When specced it also prevents interrupts. When specced into even further, all incoming heals are 20% better.

 

When specced, Power Shot and Tracer Missile gives you an extra 10% damage reduction with a full stack.

 

Combine the previous 2 skills specced properly, and you become semi tankish. I know because I have both specced. In almost full Champ gear (missing main hand weapon) and 10.3% expertise, I am one tough mofo to take down 1v1. The Combat Medic 2 piece set increases Energy Shield duration by 3 seconds (total of 15s). The 2 pc Combat Tech set reduces Determination by 15s. This can be reduced even more with skills, dropping the CD down to as little as 75s.

 

If you are using Combat Support Cylinder with a full charge, healing is increased by 3-4%. Kolto Missile adds 5% extra heals. The Supercharged version adds 10% damage reduction and all heals are 10-11% better on top of Kolto Missiles 5%. While not the easiest thing to pull off, when properly specced and geared, it is possible to get as high as 80% damage reduction for 15s every 2 minutes. More when you factor in expertise and other factors such as Guard, Taunt, etc. Throw in a Rakata health pack and you become god like.

 

If you feel squishy (not YOU in general but Mercs overall) it's because you specced and geared yourself to be squishy. You're also probably not using all of your abilities to the fullest potential. Most Mercs I come across also have tunnel vision where all they do is worry about damage with little regard of their surroundings. They spam Tracer Missile in the same spot all match long and later wonder why they get dropped in 2-3 GCDs by an Op or Scoundrel.

 

I hate to say it but some people need to actually learn the class and most importantly, the team dynamic of PvP. You'd be hard pressed to find me more than 30 meters away from any of my guildmates in a match.

 

Stop playing like a lone wolf.

[Gadrak]

werdan do you actually read what i wrote?

 

i admitted that mercenaries are a good group class,and we can all agree with this,but on 1v1 they are pathetic,plus we are talking about ARSENAL mercenaries,not bodyguard,i kinda refuse myself to spend more than half of my talent points into the healing spec,wich is really good,but Arsenal needs some attention too.

 

and warden i might not be good as you but i know how to play my class and co-ordinate with my team,but let's be frank you are not going to always have your team to back you up,especially in world pvp.

 

what the ARSENAL mercenary class need is

 

an interrupt(killing GOOD sages and sorcerers is just not possible,they got an interrupt and a sprint to escape from every ****** situation)

 

OR

 

an escape ability even with an high CD like 2 min,like a leap with the jetpack(ill be honest,i want this because i want to use more my jetty :3)

[Sabbathius]

Marauder

 

Extreme amount of damage,a good marauder is never going to approach you with the force leap since he knows that you have to stand still to attack,and even if you can pull it off he can just stealth himself or use the sprint to return at Close combat

 

I don't often say this, but stop being such a drama queen!

 

A marauder approaches you without using charge? He can certainly try. I'll just be jogging away from him, using Explosive Dart, Rail Shot, Explosive Missile, Heatseeker and Rapid Fire on him as I go. While he's doing precisely jack to me. Guess who'll win that one?

 

He blows Charge #1? He eats the knockback, and we're back to square one. He blows Charge #2? He eats any CC I feel like giving him. Now I have a free hand to stack those tracer missile debuffs and hit him with Heatseeker and whatever else I feel like it.

 

Then he finally gets on top of me with full resolve, at which point I turtle up behind the shield and spam my attacks. Yes, he'll interrupt one. Too bad there's plenty to go around.

[Juicenewtonz]

what if the melee is always on you?

 

Merc can deliver a good amount of damage if the enemy ignores you,but currently all the melee classes have more options to catch us in close combats then us to mantain distances

 

before starting with the same story "oh but we have 2 knockdowns a stun a snare and an incapacitate",think about that,only 2 of our CCs are useful and 1 when combined with another ability,the other 2 are worthless or VERY situational

 

Jet boost:excellent knockback low CD if you are arsenal and applies a snare effect

 

Electro darth: our primary stun very good and with 1 Min of CD

 

rocket punch:useful only to kick an enemy off a ledge on huttbal,it's only 4m knockbacks,and the melee range is...guess what?4m!!!

 

concussion missile:2 seconds cast time is too long,and is absolutely impossible to land this shot on someone who is near you,you are going to get interrupted and killed,the only good application for this ability is by using it combined with power surge

 

Pinning fire:completely idiotic snare 2 second snare for an ability that requires you to stand still channeling,worst waste on 2 talent points EVER.

 

now let's take a look at the gap closers of the melee units

 

Juggernaut

 

this is the only melee class that we can fight due to the non extreme damage and their only gap closer wich is force leap.

 

Marauder

 

Extreme amount of damage,a good marauder is never going to approach you with the force leap since he knows that you have to stand still to attack,and even if you can pull it off he can just stealth himself or use the sprint to return at Close combat

 

Sith assassin

 

Another dps monster with 3 gap closers,Sprint,Stealth and force pull,completely impossible to take him off you and even if i can the time im able to land 2 tracer missiles he is back on me and can easily interrupt me and kill me with ease

 

Operative

well they can kill me in a single stun,the time i trinket they vanish sap stun and kill me

 

powertech

Nearly our same damage,1 very effective gap closer and if he is specced ST with 2 gap closers,godly damage mitigation,the time that i require to drain 40% of his HP im dead

 

in the end,im level 50 with full champion gear,when im backed up by my guild i can became someway useful due to the good damage,but that's it.

 

we are good group class but we are an ATROCIOUS 1v1 class

 

If a melee actually gets on you and you have no way to get him off then stop running like an idiot and man up and spam tracers in his face, if he interupts you then just unload / fusion missile in his face, you can often outdamage melee classes when you just chain cast in their face.

[wallywaffles]

We may not be the greatest 1v1 class, but we have ridiculous AoE damage. I remember playing a match at level 12 where I got 250k damage on doors; now that's more like 400k and I've seen higher levels get up to about 600. That doesn't mean we are unbalanced, it means we need to be team players. Feel free to disagree, but I enjoy my Merc

[Rimbaldo]

If a melee actually gets on you and you have no way to get him off then stop running like an idiot and man up and spam tracers in his face, if he interupts you then just unload / fusion missile in his face, you can often outdamage melee classes when you just chain cast in their face.

 

I keep seeing you say this in other parts of the board and it's blatantly false. Marauders and Assassins both do as much or more damage than a full Arsenal merc and will completely murder you if you try to stand there and spam Tracer Missiles in their face from melee range. Juggernauts and Powertechs both have more HP than you'll be able to burn through before dying.

 

With respect, Werdan, while I'm sure a hybrid spec is more survivable in PvP than either a full Arsenal or full Pyro Merc I don't really consider it good balance when we have to come up with hybrid specs to do what other classes can do fine using full trees. What is it you're gaining by using your hybrid spec instead of getting the top tier talent from one of the other trees? I went the full glass cannon route and built myself to be a DPS monster knowing I'd be squishy, my problem is that every other DPS class in the game is doing equal or better damage than I am while having way more utility and being more useful all around. What's the point in giving up what burst we possess in exchange for living a bit longer and still being subpar compared to most other classes in the game?

 

It's obvious to me after playing for the past few weeks that nobody at BioWare ever even considered PvP when they designed the mechanics of this archetype. Never before in over a decade of playing various MMOs have I ever seen a single class that felt so completely outmaneuvered in literally every aspect of the PvP metagame as Mercenaries feel right now. The funny thing is there's still a bunch of morons over on the PvP forum crying that we need to be nerfed because some Bounty Hunter pulls off 500k damage and a 40:1 KDR during a pubstomp, despite the fact that I've yet to see a single good PvP premade that bothers including Commandos or Mercs on a regular basis. It's all about Operatives, Powertechs, and Sorcerers.

Edited January 8, 2012 by Rimbaldo

[VandredTOR]

Second funniest thread I have read while waiting in queue. The thread in the Operative forum where people those guys claim they need to be buffed takes the cake though.

[Dabrixmgp]

.

 

Here's how 1v1 PvP will play out for a Mercenary once he starts fighting geared melee at 50:

 

Merc: *attack Marauder*

Marauder: *charge*

Merc: *stun, try to run away*

Marauder: *trinket*

Merc: *knockback, try to run away*

Marauder: *vanish*

Merc: *scan while running away*

Marauder: *force choke*

Merc: *trinket*

Marauder: *Force Charge is now off cooldown again, Jet Boost still has 5 seconds.. charge*

Marauder: *pop damage immunity cooldown*

Merc: *gets murdered*

 

Merc: *sees Juggernaut, realizes it's hopeless and runs the other way*

Juggernaut: lolnope *charge*

Juggernaut: *force choke*

Merc: *trinket, knockback, Unload*

Juggernaut: *waddles through, losing 1% of his HP*

Merc: *Tracer Missile, Tracer Missile, Heatseeker Missiles*

Juggernaut: *95% HP*

Merc: *tries to run again*

Juggernaut: lolnope *charge*

Merc: *murdered since Juggernauts only do slightly less damage than Marauders for some reason*

 

Assassin: *comes out of stealth, backstab stun*

Merc: *trinket, knockback, stun*

Assassin: *trinket, Force Pull*

Merc: NONONO-*Rocket Punch*

Assassin: *gets knocked back two feet, continues stabbing merc in the face*

Merc: *gets murdered*

 

Operative: *stealth opener*

Merc: *25% HP, laying on his back* OH FOR FU-

Operative: *stun*

Merc: *gets murdered*

 

Except none of that would ever happen.

[Rimbaldo]

Except none of that would ever happen.

 

Except it does, and you obviously don't PvP at any kind of competitive level if it doesn't. Melee will outright destroy you once they get Champion or Battlemaster gear. Have fun living in your fantasy world though.

 

Second funniest thread I have read while waiting in queue. The thread in the Operative forum where people those guys claim they need to be buffed takes the cake though.

 

Anything worthwhile to say that refutes anything you've read, or are you just blowing smoke out your ***?

Edited January 8, 2012 by Rimbaldo

[oceansofmars]

Rofl... Im sorry if spamming one button to be effective is too hard for you. No amount of buffing is going to stop bads like you from being bad.

[Gadrak]

Rofl... Im sorry if spamming one button to be effective is too hard for you. No amount of buffing is going to stop bads like you from being bad.

 

 

until you get interrupted and completely facerolled,mercenary is by no mean an hard class to master,the rotation is pretty straightforward,you NEED tracers to use effectively the other abilities

 

besides the lack of defenses and interrupts,some of our talents are kinda stupid.

 

for istance target lock requires that you land 5 tracer missiles for a 30% more powerful railshot,why dont allow the bonus damage with heat signatures?,i mean cmon 5 tracer missile for just that?

 

powertech railshot ignores 60% of the enemy armor(90% if you are pyro)does 9% more damage and can auto crit if you are AP.

 

everyone who claims that merc is completely fine,should try to fight on 1v1 any other good class in the game,so far i wasnt able to kill anyone with my equal gear and skill level,(unless i heal myself with the stims or use the cybertech grenade)and before starting with the same BS"the game isnt balanced on 1v1"that could be true,but that doest justify that the arsenal merc should be completely facerolled by any class in the game,that doest just includes melee but even ranged casters,try to fight a sage as arsenal mercenary,the time that you are going to require to bring down his shield,you shall be alredy at 60% of health

 

and the thing that really pisses me off,is that besides the lack of slowdown on the knockback(meh)they can do everything better than us,interrupt,sprint, CC survivability damage,ANYTHING.

 

and the fact that a single build that requires you to waste 3/4 of your talent points on the healing tree to be viable on pvp means nothing, i went merc to be a freaking warhead,not a nurse.

[noeatnosleep]

I have to agree with Rimbaldo on some points, and strongly disagree on others.

 

First: mercs are lacking 1v1. Especially vs assassins or operatives. This I agree with completely.

 

But... who cares? 1v1 doesn't matter at all. The game isn't ballanced around 1v1 combat. If it were, it would be Halo.

 

 

Second: Mercs shouldn't have to hybrid spec to be viable.

 

Agreed. Completely.

 

Third: Mercs do the same or less damage and have less utility.

 

True in some cases. I don't think it's Mercs that need to be changed, I think operatives and assassins need to be toned down.

 

 

I agree with this: 4 sec CD on tracer, and IC it. That would be amazing.

 

AND YES BIOWARE. I WANT TO USE MY *********** JETPACK FOR MORE THAN DFA, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

[Rimbaldo]

Rofl... Im sorry if spamming one button to be effective is too hard for you. No amount of buffing is going to stop bads like you from being bad.

 

Yeah. Blow hot air and throw in the term "bads" because you don't know what you're talking about. That will make everybody think you look witty and cool. Good job, bud. Do feel free to upload a video of your amazing prowess taking down melee in Champion gear, since you're an apparent expert on our class. Bonus points if they're actually targeting you and not simply letting you free cast. I do fine in PvP outside of being on the losing side of pubstomps and usually lead my team in kills and damage done, but I'm capable of recognizing that the current metagame doesn't favor Mercenaries at all. All the better premades are starting to melee train us down, because they've learned it will take us out of play completely. Even if there's enough healers nearby to keep you up, you're basically wasting their resources since you can do next to nothing while being zerged down and spam interrupted. Melee don't have this problem. They can continue to pump damage out even while being beat on by multiple players, which makes them a better use of a party slot than a Merc. How hard is that to understand? Or you would rather throw more inane insults to try to feel better about yourself?

 

To address what noeatnosleep said, I don't think we ought to be 1v1 powerhouses. My issue stems from the fact that we don't really have a role in PvP right now. We're just... there. There's not really anything we excel at as a class. I can't think of any PvP situation that would benefit more from having a geared Mercenary than a geared Marauder, Juggernaut, or Operative. I know melee is supposed to trump range if they manage to close the distance, but when the melee being in your face for the majority of the fight becomes a foregone conclusion then something is wrong.

 

I'd be fine with how easy we are to shut down if we actually did a comparatively large amount of damage, but when I see Marauders pumping out instant cast 3-5k crits every couple seconds, Operatives pumping close to 14 or 15k in the span of a few globals after coming out of stealth (again with instant casts), or Juggernauts/Vanguards who do about 5% less damage than we do in DPS gear with the added benefit of being about 5x harder to kill, it really makes me start to question what BioWare thinks our role in PvP should be... or if they've even thought about it at all.

Edited January 8, 2012 by Rimbaldo

[Gadrak]

funny thing is that when i swap to my alt powertech,the difference on pvp is like day and night,im nearly unkillabe,im able to dish out almost the same amount of damage instantly and while moving,i have an interrupt,i have 2 gap closers,i have 2 stuns,and my grapple snares the enemy on the ground and stealth scan stun the enemy for 3 seconds....

[Jinnz]

I rolled a BH looking to be a hybrid (proper heal/dps hybrid) instead of jumping on the sith sorc bandwagon, but its just not possible. their skills are much better and ours do not open this playstyle up to us in pvp.

 

BH has ALOT of aoe, some spammable, they are very reliant on their group to be effective andare therefore a class designed for the large scale battles that will come on the pvp planet (i speak with pvp in general in mind), where they have heals and the position to literally blow everyone up with massive aoe.

 

on the other side, however, sith inquisitor not specced for full aoe dps is very bad at taking on as wella s healing multiple opponents.

 

/rant

[Muanthuun]

We are completely fine

 

Pretty much this.

 

Sounds like this is not the AC for the OP.

[Gadrak]

Pretty much this.

 

Sounds like this is not the AC for the OP.

 

 

if completely fine means,we are supposed to lose against anyone on 1v1,and being outclassed on any level besides AOE by other classes then yes we are completely fine.

[Werdan]

if completely fine means,we are supposed to lose against anyone on 1v1,and being outclassed on any level besides AOE by other classes then yes we are completely fine.

 

I've beaten every single class 1v1. If I've ever had a problem, it was because of the PLAYER behind the keyboard, not the class itself. Snipers, Marauders, Operatives, DPS Assassins, Mercs, and their mirrors all melt. I have some issues with pure tanks and healers as they take longer to kill or chase off, but they can't kill me either.

 

If people want to go off complaining about Merc survivability and we get buffed, I won't complain. It will just make me that much more harder to kill.

[Cegenaus]

I've beaten every single class 1v1. If I've ever had a problem, it was because of the PLAYER behind the keyboard, not the class itself. Snipers, Marauders, Operatives, DPS Assassins, Mercs, and their mirrors all melt. I have some issues with pure tanks and healers as they take longer to kill or chase off, but they can't kill me either.

 

If people want to go off complaining about Merc survivability and we get buffed, I won't complain. It will just make me that much more harder to kill.

 

ive killed every class too but not the competent ones. it would be nice to have a little more survivability in the form of movement, damage, or cc

[Werdan]

ive killed every class too but not the competent ones. it would be nice to have a little more survivability in the form of movement, damage, or cc

 

Competent PLAYERS or competent CLASSES? Don't get me wrong, if you care anything about PvP, you have to have an ego. I have one, albeit more subdued than others. That said, I know when I've been bested by an equally skilled or better player and take it in stride. I don't complain about class mechanics to cover up for something I could have done better. I try and learn from my mistakes.

 

Are there general issues in PvP that need to be looked at? Oh God, yes. For the most part, I feel most classes are well balanced. Be careful what you wish for. You just might get it. The problem with that in MMOs is that you just might get something you weren't expecting to balance it out.

 

If you really wanted a better 1v1 class you'd pick one that everyone says is OP. If you still have issues after that, I'd assume it's the player and not the class.

[rlpirate]

when i read that pt can match merc dps i could have swore this was a troll post.

 

Seriously people crying about the class need to understand one simple thing about merc/commando dps. Its not only big dmg for u but it boosts everyones dps in ur group because of the debuff. That only makes merc more dangerous then other dps classes.

[Gadrak]

werdan can i ask why do you insist of claiming that you are really hard to beat as hybrid when we are talking about ARSENAL and not bodyguard?,look at all these complaints,they are arsenal related,bodyguard is fine,you are using an hybrid spec,and you cannot balance a class around a single spec,please stop claiming that we are fine just because you found a combination that allows you to be resilient(wich to be fair is kinda stupid,we are supposed to be bursty not tanky)

[Daeth]

Are you joking? Arsenal / Gunnery (the Trooper equivalent) are the most overpowered spec in PvP at the moment. Operatives have nothing on them.

 

They pump out the highest DPS, they are basically tanks with the heavy armor and damage reduction procs. The knockback boost throws people halfway across the zone.

 

I made one for the lolz, and it is obscenely overpowered. I started topping the damage charts at 15 and kept going all the way to max level where I now do about double what anyone else can do.

 

Every battleground I now enter sees at least 50% of people in this spec. A few weeks ago they were probably Sorcerors or Snipers, but its been made abundantly clear that this is the most OP spec so everyone is rerolling.

[ChosenoftheRaven]

This all just comes down to rock paper scissors. If melee get the jump on you, they SHOULD beat you. If you get the jump on them or have the high ground, you SHOULD beat them. It's as simple as that. The penalty for being a class that can blow people up from distance is that it needs to be weak against players that can close the gap. Honestly how do people not understand this? The only problems mercs have are small ones like the lack of an interupt. And if you feel like being able to tangle with melee is most important to you then go spec pyro and learn to kite them.

 

Holy crap this this THIS. Why is it idiots think they should be able to magically crush all the melee? If he charges into you, and that's the first move in the exchange, you SHOULD lose. If you open up on some poor melee and he takes a couple seconds to target you, he SHOULD lose. And that's how it goes, if you don't suck at the game. Mercs aren't the best class ever, but they certainly don't suck. Doomsaying is for bads.

[ChosenoftheRaven]

if completely fine means,we are supposed to lose against anyone on 1v1,and being outclassed on any level besides AOE by other classes then yes we are completely fine.

 

Last I checked, each pvp warzone isn't a dueling ground designed for you to show off how easily everyone else is apparently stomping your terrible self. They're for teams. Make some friends, pvp the way it was designed for, and stop whining.