Why do so many here take joy in wanting this game to fail?

[dyves]

The games you listed first were all in time when MMOs weren't mainstream, and when devs weren't just copy-pasting the same thing every time. That doesn't work now days. Now days it IS black and white, either it's a big name MMO that's a wow clone, or it's a small title that gets overlooked. I mean hell, looking at your list of upcoming MMOs, the only ones I've heard about were Tera, GW2, and Planetside. And those I heard of from various places on the web. GW2 is the only one you listed with any sort of wide marketing. So no matter how good those are, if nobody knows about them they will still fail.

 

As long as wow clones dominate the market, we'll never see big name MMOs that are unique and innovative.

 

Yawn. Man, I seriously think there has been something wrong with your education or intelligence, you'd do well as a religious extremist, with that kind of black and white thinking.

 

The fact that you're an ignorant doesn't mean other people are. You're already proven wrong: you state that no AAA MMO's with unique and innovative gameplay will be developed as long as themepark MMO's rule supreme, yet here we are, with AAA MMO's with unique and innovative or different gameplay features like GW2, ArcheAge, TSW, Planetside 2 and Firefall arrive on the scene within the year, with other different MMO's like World of Darkness and Undead Labs' zombie sandbox MMO in development as well.

 

 

... this is why I wish that SWG had never existed, so that idiots and fanatics like this would never have entered the MMO scene. Man, the neverending whining and extremism of some of those SWG vets against all MMO's just because they're unable to enjoy any MMO's besides SWG is beyond the ridiculous, and it has been going on for 6 years already. Seriously, the (MMO) world would have been better off if no SWG vets had ever existed.

Edited January 6, 2012 by dyves

[DarkMatter]

Honestly, for a LOT of people, it's not trolling or anything. It's because they fear what TOR represents. What TOR represents is stagnation. Like it or not, TOR rips off WoW just as much as any other wow clone. But if TOR manages to be successful it will tell every other developer "oh look, all we need to do to get an easy cash cow is to copy wow and use a popular IP!" However on the flipside, if TOR were to fail it'd send the message that no matter what names you slap on your game, if it's a wow clone, it will fail. So by failing it will send a message throughout the industry that wow clones don't sell, and thus they may be inclined to actually try something else that might actually make money.

 

This is why even I am on the "please fail" train. I want new and unique MMOs, not rehashed wow clones with a new skin and voice acting. Sure I may be enjoying tor, but that's because I enjoy wow style games, they're a good timesink for a month or two. But I want the industry to progress and push forward, not just rehash wow for the next decade.

 

So yeah, just because people want tor to fail doesn't mean they're trolls or just haters, it's because they legitimately fear for the fate of the MMO genre.

 

 

 

/thread

[bandraoi]

Honestly, for a LOT of people, it's not trolling or anything. It's because they fear what TOR represents. What TOR represents is stagnation. Like it or not, TOR rips off WoW just as much as any other wow clone. But if TOR manages to be successful it will tell every other developer "oh look, all we need to do to get an easy cash cow is to copy wow and use a popular IP!" However on the flipside, if TOR were to fail it'd send the message that no matter what names you slap on your game, if it's a wow clone, it will fail. So by failing it will send a message throughout the industry that wow clones don't sell, and thus they may be inclined to actually try something else that might actually make money.

 

This is why even I am on the "please fail" train. I want new and unique MMOs, not rehashed wow clones with a new skin and voice acting. Sure I may be enjoying tor, but that's because I enjoy wow style games, they're a good timesink for a month or two. But I want the industry to progress and push forward, not just rehash wow for the next decade.

 

So yeah, just because people want tor to fail doesn't mean they're trolls or just haters, it's because they legitimately fear for the fate of the MMO genre.

 

wow itself took much of what it owes from eq so wow itself is a clone the basic mmo concept isn't really going to change the forerunner of this starwars galaxies was probably one of the most freeform and unique mmos to exist and if sony had implemented some of the concepts from the first couple fo years it might have been here today.. rip swg you were unique

[kalexkhan]

The games you listed first were all in time when MMOs weren't mainstream, and when devs weren't just copy-pasting the same thing every time. That doesn't work now days. Now days it IS black and white, either it's a big name MMO that's a wow clone, or it's a small title that gets overlooked. I mean hell, looking at your list of upcoming MMOs, the only ones I've heard about were Tera, GW2, and Planetside. And those I heard of from various places on the web. GW2 is the only one you listed with any sort of wide marketing. So no matter how good those are, if nobody knows about them they will still fail.

 

As long as wow clones dominate the market, we'll never see big name MMOs that are unique and innovative.

 

It's the 21st century and this is what happens in western culture when something goes mainstream though.

 

This is why every song on top40 radio also all kinda sounds the same.

 

We have no choice bit to look for trend setters in smaller circles. Games you want are going to be niche, and that's unfortunate to some extent, as they will always be unique ip's and you'll never get a star wars one but.....

 

The triple a games industry is ruled by investment dollars, and investors don't want design risks, they want safe bets. Even bioware folded under the pressure of the money people.

[Bibdabob]

"Why do so many here take joy in wanting this game to fail?"

 

Many of them are probably WoW players. The mind tells them that WoW is slowly dying and that it's time to move on and to find a new game. But the heart doesn't want to let WoW go and wishes any possible competitor to fail. This has nothing to do with SWTOR, it is much rather some sort of feeling guilty for even considering to leave WoW after so many yeras.

 

:eek:

 

No, it goes like "*** this is a just a bad copy of WOW, there go my $60... damn!"

[ColonelColt]

Everyone else?

If 1000 people are in a room and 100 vote red, and 900 vote blue.

Then everyone else is that 100?

 

If the 100 start badgering and demanding the other 900 vote red in order to show them that red is better than blue. That's not rallying for a cause, that's just pressure to make the 900 give in to your way of thinking.

 

The 900 are the majority, and they have their right to like the color blue.

The 100 that like red just don't like being a minority.

 

I am sorry that in the current MMO landscape the game design you and many desire is the minority.

 

But what I have been saying all along. Badgering us isn't going to get the results you so desperately wish for.

 

Because our desires will never be on par with yours.

 

A good addition to your little analogy would be that by voting blue, the room was filled with .... romance novels. Nothing else, just romance novels. Occasionally a single page from another book would be thrown in, but primarily just romance novels. Why wouldn't those 100 people be upset? They get nothing to read.

 

Again, it's the fact that the industry is the way it is that forces this black and white view. If I could get good triple A mmos that weren't wow clones, then I wouldn't care about wow clones, I'd go play the other mmo. But look back for the past 7 years. How many big name MMOs were they that WEREN'T wow clones? Not that many. Any non-wow clone MMO is minor and gets swept under the rug. Because the industry is this way, I'm left with three options. I can either force myself to enjoy playing the exact same game endlessly. I can quit and try to kill wow clones to help spur the industry into something more amicable for all sides. Or I can just forgo MMOs all together and reside myself to playing singleplayer games and FPS.

 

It's not my fault the industry is like this, it's wow's fault and all those greedy developers who want 10 million subs.

[Kurnea]

The thing you never seem to acknowledge is that TOR isn't a singleplayer game. It's not a game that you'll play a couple times and then never touch again. This is a game that you will be playing for months, years even. Now can you honestly tell me that six months down the road that voice acting will still be the major draw for you? If you say yes you're a damned liar.

 

Then call me a liar, because I continue to go back to games I've played before and listen to the VA.

Since if voice acting was all you cared about you'd just replay baldurs gate every day until the end of time. But you're not playing baldurs gate, are you?

 

I replayed the Baldur's Gate series a few months ago, and not long after replayed Mass Effect 1 and 2. Also tried KoTOR out again awhile back, was quite fun.

 

For the first time in awhile, I've actually been excited about the leveling process in an MMO. Deny it all you want, the voice-work and attention to quests has been a positive for me.

[Papazooki]

I dont get it? Why are you all wishing this will go free to play and taking joy in its apparent "badness"? Personally when a new Star Wars game that ive been waiting ages for comes out im quite happy to play it and im hoping it never gets shut down. Secondly when you've invested your money in a subscription for a game why would you want it to fail?

 

It's simple, they are fanboys from other MMOs..who are afraid of this games potential.

[inseeisyou]

I have bad news for all the haters. The chance of this game not turning a profit is virtually non existent. The fact is for every hard core MMO "elitist" there are ten casual gamers who will pay and play.

 

You can make as many angry forum posts as you like, 97% of all the negativity is simply preaching to the choir of people who already share your opinion. Do you expect your little troll posts to compete with advertising campaigns on the front page of major websites that receive millions of visitors a day and television ads? lol....

[Stindlas]

The games you listed first were all in time when MMOs weren't mainstream, and when devs weren't just copy-pasting the same thing every time. That doesn't work now days. Now days it IS black and white, either it's a big name MMO that's a wow clone, or it's a small title that gets overlooked. I mean hell, looking at your list of upcoming MMOs, the only ones I've heard about were Tera, GW2, and Planetside. And those I heard of from various places on the web. GW2 is the only one you listed with any sort of wide marketing. So no matter how good those are, if nobody knows about them they will still fail.

 

As long as wow clones dominate the market, we'll never see big name MMOs that are unique and innovative.

 

List me 10 things that you think should be in a unique MMORPG that are UNIQUE and INNOVATIVE? Because I see guys talk alot about how they want some kind of new game but never say what it is they want.

[ColonelColt]

Yawn. Man, I seriously think there has been something wrong with your education or intelligence, you'd do well as a religious extremist, with that kind of black and white thinking.

 

The fact that you're an ignorant doesn't mean other people are. You're already proven wrong: you state that no AAA MMO's with unique and innovative gameplay will be developed as long as themepark MMO's rule supreme, yet here we are, with AAA MMO's with unique and innovative or different gameplay features like GW2, ArcheAge, TSW, Planetside 2 and Firefall arrive on the scene within the year, with other different MMO's like World of Darkness and Undead Labs' zombie sandbox MMO in development as well.

 

 

... this is why I wish that SWG had never existed, so that idiots and fanatics like this would never have entered the MMO scene. Man, the neverending whining and extremism of some of those SWG vets against all MMO's just because they're unable to enjoy any MMO's besides SWG is beyond the ridiculous, and it has been going on for 6 years already. Seriously, the (MMO) world would have been better off if no SWG vets had ever existed.

 

Y'know, you call me ignorant. But how is ignorance my fault? I mean put yourself in the shoes of the common MMO player. Do you think they spend their time lurking forums and looking for obscure MMO releases? No, not really. The only MMOs they hear about are the big name ones with actual marketing. Virtually every MMO you've named has almost no marketing, and as such normal players such as myself have never heard of them. We can't play or support games we don't even know exist. And to expect everyone to troll the internet looking for information on any and all new MMOs is laughable at best.

 

Those titles you listed aren't triple A titles, they're your usual low-budget MMOs that always get swept under the rug. The only real exception being GW2, and maybe planetside 2. You call me an extremist, but how are you any different? You're perfectly content as long as your game is on top. But would you be so high and mighty if your wow clones didn't reign supreme? Actually probably since you'd be enjoying something NEW with everyone else.

[kalexkhan]

 

I am sorry that in the current MMO landscape the game design you and many desire is the minority.

 

But what I have been saying all along. Badgering us isn't going to get the results you so desperately wish for.

 

Because our desires will never be on par with yours.

 

we are in the minority until one day we are not. And some developer challenges the old models in just the right ways, and takes just the right design risks and it pays off.

 

2nd gen mmo's like wow took risks by trying to make accessible mmo's. This sounds like a sure thing in retrospect but at the time it was a big risk. Mmo's were played by hardcore of the hardcore basement nerds only, it was risky to think it could be more than that.

 

Your model is clever, and I agree wow clones are still in the mainstream, but you assume the population is fixed. We simply can't know how many users wow has shed, and if someone comes along and can put a finger on why all those people quot never to return, and how to secure their dollars instead, you could be looking at a real contender.

[Cretinus]

 

What are you doing when you play that you can't do in wow?

 

I'm having loads of fun which is something I didn't experience in WoW for quite a while.

[Lord_of_Stone]

People want this game to fail for several reasons:

 

1. They hate Bioware and its community. Basically, these people see Biowares games going down hill from Baldurs Gate. DA2 is the culmination of their hate. TOR is simply a continuation. Biowares next title will receive even worse flakk from this crowd

 

2. They hate EA. Ties in with 1. They believe that EA is mostly responsible for Biowares recent "horrible games". Its mostly that they think EA just cuts corners and caters to the majority, attempting to get the big bucks, while failing to realize they are merely a legitimate company trying to make a profit.

 

3. They think it will destroy the industry. These people are from a different crowd. They have never played Bioware games, they are the hardcore MMO fanatics. The old basement dwelling WoW players who've invested hundred of dollars into blizzard. They dont care about story, voice acting, etc. They care about endgame, gearscore, competitive pvp, 'hardcore' things in games. The moment someone points this out, you will be immediately pinned as a "casual". These people believe that if SWTOR becomes popular, that other MMO's in the future will attempt to follow their design, and this the MMO market will be flooded with games they hate. Absolutely none of the things these people believe are true.

[Sulvan]

I think it is because the game was in develepoment for 4 years and they expected a lot more out of it. But i dont want this game to fail i think it has great potential.

[Anomagnus]

, TOR failing means that, one way or the other, wow clones will be gone.

 

This is my last post, becasue you really are very ignorant of the real world. If, IF, TOR falls, and for all i know it may do, it will not mean orginal MMOs are made. Your either going to see a ton of cheap little MMOs, none of whom are really going to innovate, or you're just simply going to see Blizzard rule the roost for another 10 years, as no one of any consequence will be able to compete with them, and the blizzard model becomes the defacto MMO through Titan and beyond.

 

In fact, as i think about it, it could result in a scenario where its MORE likely that WoW clones are created, as smaller development houes will not have the development bandwidth to do anything different.

 

But you won't listen to this, as you're content to spend 50 euro on a game you hate, just so you can post on the forums about how people that spend money on this game are your enemy.

[Aetla]

Honestly, for a LOT of people, it's not trolling or anything. It's because they fear what TOR represents. What TOR represents is stagnation. Like it or not, TOR rips off WoW just as much as any other wow clone. But if TOR manages to be successful it will tell every other developer "oh look, all we need to do to get an easy cash cow is to copy wow and use a popular IP!" However on the flipside, if TOR were to fail it'd send the message that no matter what names you slap on your game, if it's a wow clone, it will fail. So by failing it will send a message throughout the industry that wow clones don't sell, and thus they may be inclined to actually try something else that might actually make money.

 

They should have been aware of cloning would fail! I was talking to my Hardcore WoW veteran friends just couple of days ago. They already started the SWToR and i asked the similarities between two games. They replied "a lot" and continued to talk "we were expecting something different and more".

 

So yeah, just because people want tor to fail doesn't mean they're trolls or just haters, it's because they legitimately fear for the fate of the MMO genre.

 

I couldn't agree more... This is not about the titles. It's all about the MMO gaming' dull and clone development attitude. Developers and publishers are so afraid to take risks and try something new on that genre.

 

SWToR has anything new but voice acting, brilliant storytelling like a RPG game? Nothing radical, innovative, bold and risky stuff there. Highly sterile, restricted and constructed PvP.

 

Until the people dry out the story and PvE content SWToR shall live its good days but after that it's gonna lose people slowly and become a F2P game if:

 

Bioware don't think twice and work hard on providing quality content on "player vs player" as a whole! Combat is already has no different neither requires any skill just like any Korean MMO game. Point click spam ability spam more... That's terrible... Even failed Age of Conan tried to do something new for gods sake.

 

Whats wrong with you Bioware?

 

Your real intend is making a colossal milestone game or just another MMO game?

[kalexkhan]

wow itself took much of what it owes from eq so wow itself is a clone the basic mmo concept isn't really going to change the forerunner of this starwars galaxies was probably one of the most freeform and unique mmos to exist and if sony had implemented some of the concepts from the first couple fo years it might have been here today.. rip swg you were unique

 

A basic concept did change with that 2nd generation of mmo's like wow... They made them accessible!

 

One key example is mob grinds. The core compulsion loop in eq was to group up, camp, and pull mobs for xp. Quests were rare, ultra hard, and usually raid oriented. Games like wow burst on the scene with quest based level grinds instead, and they were usually easier and you could solo.

 

These seem subtle in retrospect, but trust me, these things were big deals.

 

Now instead of just doing quests.... Well we still are doing quests right? They have pretty makeup put on em but no real challenge to the compulsion loop after all..

[Pullataikina]

I dont get it? Why are you all wishing this will go free to play and taking joy in its apparent "badness"? Personally when a new Star Wars game that ive been waiting ages for comes out im quite happy to play it and im hoping it never gets shut down. Secondly when you've invested your money in a subscription for a game why would you want it to fail?

 

Why would i want to see it fail? Hmm, well because it deserves to fail and it will in month or 2.

[GraunKrynn]

Do you think they spend their time lurking forums and looking for obscure MMO releases? No, not really. The only MMOs they hear about are the big name ones with actual marketing. Virtually every MMO you've named has almost no marketing, and as such normal players such as myself have never heard of them. We can't play or support games we don't even know exist. And to expect everyone to troll the internet looking for information on any and all new MMOs is laughable at best.

 

http://bit.ly/uoRXo1

 

You're welcome. If you call that hard work, then you don't even belong on the internet.

[kalexkhan]

I'm having loads of fun which is something I didn't experience in WoW for quite a while.

 

I'm happy for your "feelings", but I was hoping for specific features that are not in wow that you experienced the last time you played that substantiate this game for anyone who hates wow, or is liable to go back to it istead?

[Kurnea]

Y'know, you call me ignorant. But how is ignorance my fault? I mean put yourself in the shoes of the common MMO player. Do you think they spend their time lurking forums and looking for obscure MMO releases? No, not really.

 

Since the common mmo player seems satisfied by the popular titles, that would make sense. For anyone dissatisfied with the industry, though, you'd think they might try so much as a google search like 'Indie mmos' and spend a few minutes reading some of the lists.

 

I mean, by virtue of playing an mmo, such people must have an internet connection.

The only MMOs they hear about are the big name ones with actual marketing. Virtually every MMO you've named has almost no marketing, and as such normal players such as myself have never heard of them. We can't play or support games we don't even know exist. And to expect everyone to troll the internet looking for information on any and all new MMOs is laughable at best.

 

Let me get this straight:

 

Despite knowing it'll likely be a WoW clone(something you already seemed to hate), you spent $60 on a game simply because it was well marketed and advertised. You then spend a sizable amount of time playing said game, and then go on to complain about the genre being filled with nothing but WoW clones.

 

You spend all that time and money on TOR, and you find the notion of doing a simple google search and spending time to look for new mmo's laughable?

 

Again, you first spend money on this game, then time playing the game, then more time complaining about how there's nothing innovative, and the whole time it's never occurred to you to even look at the non-AAA mmos out there?

 

THIS is why the industry is where it's at. The pure willingness for players to spend their energy whining but then do nothing in regards to investigating actual innovation.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Kurnea

[Debex]

Why would i want to see it fail? Hmm, well because it deserves to fail and it will in month or 2.

 

Well the whole world and my money does not revolve around what you think deserves or not.

[DigitalDreamz]

Two words: Generation Entitlement.

 

This^^

[SakuraiSan]

These are the people who don't play much MMO other than WOW. Everything WOW,WOW, WOW. Seriously, is that all those haters play? I played a lot of MMO. By a lot means A LOT!! NOT JUST WOW. I can say, this game is awesome. I don't have time to say how awesome this game is ,but just stop the hating.