Ashes_Arizona Posted January 6, 2012 Author Share Posted January 6, 2012 A vanilla MMO doesn't have infinite end-game content at launch? What... a shock? You've missed the point. It does have end game content, the problem is the end game content is exactly like every other games end game content. Repetitive grinding for tokens to turn in to get "l33t" uber gear. Whats more, as my post states all this "l33t" uber gear is completely unmodifiable other than the various weapons in the sets, completely cutting the crafting economy out of the end game. I'm not asking for infinite end game content. I'm asking for compelling end game content that doesn't feel like I'm literally performing chores simply to try to squeeze one more ounce of enjoyment out of my character. I don't find that to be a positive game play experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herdsnerfs Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I think people should be forced to level a character from 25 to 35 in Aion before they are allowed to make any comments about grinding on another MMOs forum. Just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papazooki Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 You don't sound like a fan boy to me at all. Infact, all of your points are invalid (most of them). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RachelAnne Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Somekind of grind does belong to an MMO, to say you dont like it is a bit flawed - as its part of that genre. What matters is the way of the grind. Is it just 1 way, like at wow with doing 5mens all day or are there a few ways like at vanilla wow, where you could pvp, craft or do 5 mens, later raids. People must be able to choose different ways, else it becomes boring and generic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashes_Arizona Posted January 6, 2012 Author Share Posted January 6, 2012 This is also my biggest issue with the game. I began beta testing in July just in time for the magical late-July build and it was so *********** frustrating to see them gut system after system which was very well received for extremely dumbed down and WoW-ified iterations. What made things even worse were the devs coming onto the beta forums and simply lying to us about the changes they made. All of that feedback and all of those bug reports were ignored wholesale by Bioware. The entire beta program was an absolute farce and nothing but an internal measure by the team to gather player statistics and data. All one needs to do is remember the outcry when they gutted the awesome mod system, all of the lies fed to us by Reid afterwards in his pathetic attempt at platitudes, and then the infuriating loss of "unify to chest" coloring for armoring because, for whatever reason, Bioware became butt-hurt over the fact that people actually looked good at any stage in the game. I'm L40 now and have never once liked the armor appearance on my Trooper. I'm always three different colors of crap and it's annoying. Oh, and then there's the insanely lame linear gear appearance progression which we didn't have until the later beta builds. In the earlier builds not only could we mod nearly every piece of anything but almost all appearance sets were available at any level post 20. Yep I was right there with you. When the gears changed entirely on the gear system and suddenly the latest test build smelled slightly of Blizzard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kakachan Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 %100 agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashes_Arizona Posted January 6, 2012 Author Share Posted January 6, 2012 You don't sound like a fan boy to me at all. Infact, all of your points are invalid (most of them). Poor bait. Try again. I know my points are valid. I've been arguing them since Hutta 365. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blogmonster Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Can you give examples of some of these things? I'm honestly curious what they had planned that was different and how it changed to be like WoW. I wanna know about that stuff too, what did they get cold feet about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jhonen Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Yep I was right there with you. When the gears changed entirely on the gear system and suddenly the latest test build smelled slightly of Blizzard. You mean it smelled of a system that has been proven to retain subscribers. Unfortunately, most other MMOs are afraid to take the next step forward, because really, nobody knows what that next step is yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashes_Arizona Posted January 6, 2012 Author Share Posted January 6, 2012 You mean it smelled of a system that has been proven to retain subscribers. Unfortunately, most other MMOs are afraid to take the next step forward, because really, nobody knows what that next step is yet. Which is why I'm accusing them of cowardice. I believe they had the next step. They just backed away from it because, as stated, they were afraid they were going to scare off money with something that might be "too complex" for MMO Gamers. But guess what? It wasn't too complex. It was fantastically understandable and gave you nearly limitless flexibility to tweak and improve your characters stats and capabilities with. Now we just have...half the system that we use to have, at best. And far more limitations on what we can do with it. They did take the next step, then someone got cold feet. Not sure who it was, but I'd like to volunteer to be the first person in line to knee them in the crotch for taking what could have been a far more individually rewarding end game, and turning it into a bunch of level 50 gear clones where everyone of the same level, spec and class, looks exactly the same and has exactly the same stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blogmonster Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Honestly if end game is all about raiding I'm not even going to re-roll. I think that's very shallow of them to do that. The kind of people that this game attracts with its 1-50 are not interested in the hamster wheel of raiding and all the raiders who have raided for 7 years in that other game have had enough of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oneiros_IV Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Grinding tokens isn't quite endgame, it's preparation to enter endgame. Amirite? Or do you expect roleplayer story lovers in greens to clear nightmare raids right after finishing class chain? That would kinda defeat the purpose. also nothing l33t about grinding, as a l33t player I'm rather offended go set yourself on fire good sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunryu Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I just want to know what people want other than raiding and pvp for end game..........cupcake cook offs? chess? dance contests? What? This is not a single player game and it has been what MMOs do since MMOs have been around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oneiros_IV Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Oh well since it's going that ridiculous how do you imagine "perfect" endgame that has replayability value and meant to keep subscribers forever. Also elaborate on your "scrapped endgame system" or I call bullsh** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jhonen Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I just want to know what people want other than raiding and pvp for end game..........cupcake cook offs? chess? dance contests? What? This is not a single player game and it has been what MMOs do since MMOs have been around. I honestly can't think of anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lauzian Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 What about the chore of grinding the same 2 or 3 dungeons (depending on what patch of the expansion we are on) day in and day out for valor. Or the chore of running the same raid every week because that's where the best gear is. Or the chore of killing the most current boss in the pvp raid 1x every week for a chance at gear as well. Spare me the, this game has no content argument. It has just been released. You want them to release 7 years of patches and 3 expansions at launch? And don't complain about the ease of the content either. Half my guild is going through Baby's first MMO time. Tank and spanks are for learning to use CDs at the proper time, keeping up your buffs, learning the mechanics of dps, etc, etc. And no, that is not just scanning a combat log. You can learn quite a bit just by playing. More difficult and involved content will come. First they need to teach EVERYONE how to play. If you are coming from another MMO, you have a head start. Deal with it or run back to your favorite and never come back, the game will not miss you. As I've said earlier, I swear these forums are populated by career politicians because you people could find a way to contradict and complain about 2+2 = 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jhonen Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Oh well since it's going that ridiculous how do you imagine "perfect" endgame that has replayability value and meant to keep subscribers forever. Also elaborate on your "scrapped endgame system" or I call bullsh** ^^ This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kashaan Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Which is why I'm accusing them of cowardice. I believe they had the next step. They just backed away from it because, as stated, they were afraid they were going to scare off money with something that might be "too complex" for MMO Gamers. But guess what? It wasn't too complex. It was fantastically understandable and gave you nearly limitless flexibility to tweak and improve your characters stats and capabilities with. Now we just have...half the system that we use to have, at best. And far more limitations on what we can do with it. They did take the next step, then someone got cold feet. Not sure who it was, but I'd like to volunteer to be the first person in line to knee them in the crotch for taking what could have been a far more individually rewarding end game, and turning it into a bunch of level 50 gear clones where everyone of the same level, spec and class, looks exactly the same and has exactly the same stats. So can you please explain how the gear system was different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blogmonster Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I just want to know what people want other than raiding and pvp for end game..........cupcake cook offs? chess? dance contests? What? This is not a single player game and it has been what MMOs do since MMOs have been around. Multiplayer space combat with guild flagships, space combat pvp and a mish mash of space combat mixed into ground combat. Also planetary bombing runs with your ship. Pod racing. Realm vs Realm vs World Bosses vs Space combat pvp World pvp Valor ranks with exclusive gear Did I mention pod racing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunryu Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 What about the chore of grinding the same 2 or 3 dungeons (depending on what patch of the expansion we are on) day in and day out for valor. Or the chore of running the same raid every week because that's where the best gear is. Or the chore of killing the most current boss in the pvp raid 1x every week for a chance at gear as well. Spare me the, this game has no content argument. It has just been released. You want them to release 7 years of patches and 3 expansions at launch? And don't complain about the ease of the content either. Half my guild is going through Baby's first MMO time. Tank and spanks are for learning to use CDs at the proper time, keeping up your buffs, learning the mechanics of dps, etc, etc. And no, that is not just scanning a combat log. You can learn quite a bit just by playing. More difficult and involved content will come. First they need to teach EVERYONE how to play. If you are coming from another MMO, you have a head start. Deal with it or run back to your favorite and never come back, the game will not miss you. As I've said earlier, I swear these forums are populated by career politicians because you people could find a way to contradict and complain about 2+2 = 4. It's 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunryu Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Multiplayer space combat with guild flagships, space combat pvp and a mish mash of space combat mixed into ground combat. Also planetary bombing runs with your ship. Pod racing. Realm vs Realm vs World Bosses vs Space combat pvp World pvp Valor ranks with exclusive gear Did I mention pod racing? Soooooooooooooo more versions of pvp and raiding with a racing game in it, gotcha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Folgrin Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 So what exactly do you want for endgame? I understand your frustration. But can you offer some suggestions to fix said issues? And dont forget the legacy system is still in development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lauzian Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Honestly, you know what I'd like to see them do, but improve on. The way FFXI did expansions, no increase in level cap. No new tiers. Here is new content, it has new gear with different looks and abilities. You can chase after it. You can do the old content or you can gripe on the forums. Honestly, why does every expansion require a level cap increase? Expand the available content at the current level is all that is needed. Just make sure new gear is on par with old gear and people will go after it. And if the old gear is still viable, people have reason to play old content for gear they want to wear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jhonen Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Multiplayer space combat with guild flagships, space combat pvp and a mish mash of space combat mixed into ground combat. Also planetary bombing runs with your ship. Pod racing. Realm vs Realm vs World Bosses vs Space combat pvp World pvp Valor ranks with exclusive gear Did I mention pod racing? All very plausible... except for the RvRvWorld boss vs space combat pvp... what were you thinking there lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashes_Arizona Posted January 6, 2012 Author Share Posted January 6, 2012 I just want to know what people want other than raiding and pvp for end game..........cupcake cook offs? chess? dance contests? What? This is not a single player game and it has been what MMOs do since MMOs have been around. Self determination. Couple MMO's have pulled it off. Unfortunately thinking for yourself has shown to be less popular than hand holding, so, those MMO's didn't do/haven't done so well. And really if you think about it, even as scripted as the class quest story lines are, there is an element of self determination in them, you can't alter them too much, but you choose what you wish to choose and play out the consequences of it in the arc of the story. At the end that little glimmer of self determination is lost. And your fate is pretty much described as "Raider" or "PvPer". From Sith Lord to drooling on your keyboard in boredom in less than the time it took to walk out of the Dark Council Chambers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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