Selecting Need for your companion

[Zombull]

BioWare could (and should) add a "Companion Need" button to the loot roll window and prohibit "self need" rolls for items of the wrong armor type or wrong primary stat.

[joriandrake]

And that's why communication is important. Just like in the case of a piece of gear you want for the looks as opposed to the player that actually needs it for the stats. You don't really NEED it. Can you roll on it cuz you want to look in a specific way? Sure. But it's generally frowned upon, just saying.

 

 

 

I learn quite fast

 

That said by now if I want an item for an other use (like for companion) than for my own I wait till I make my choice on the roll until everyone else did, and only then click Need if no one else did.

[joriandrake]

BioWare could (and should) add a "Companion Need" button to the loot roll window and prohibit "self need" rolls for items of the wrong armor type or wrong primary stat.

If something like this would be implemented it would have to be armor type, because a marauder could still use the orange medium armor what an agent also could use with swapped mods in it.

[Tychoides]

I hope that the people who roll need for companions over people in the group who can use it for their character are not on my server so I never have to worry about grouping with you. I will drop the group, never group with that person again, and make sure to spread the news as much as possible among guildmates and on the server. I don't give a crap if you're a tank, healer, or the best DPS on the server -- that doesn't entitle you to any special treatment.

 

I'm really sad that people here are advocating this as an acceptable practice and actually think people should agree with this. Social contracts exist for a reason, and while I am OK with challenging the status quo against unfair practices, this is not an unfair practice/social contract!

 

Advocating this position is nothing but pure greed and it's disgusting.

 

For people rolling need for companions:

 

1) Ask, ideally politely.

2) Make sure no one in the group needs it for their character.

 

Is that so much to ask?

[utio]

I used to be in groups in swg to have fun, and never bothered to worry bout the loot. Same will happen in this game, only groups I've been in so far are to help someone, nothing to do with what I can get out of it.

I have no desire to dictate to another player what they should roll need for, I'm just there cause this is a game and it's supposed to be fun to play it.

[pseaton]

Incorrect. Greed rolls have no priority system. A companion is an extension of your character, and should be treated as such. Not a single person in this game has leveled 1-50 without a companion by their side for most of it. You all need to remember that, and stop disregarding the fact that your companions are 50% of your solo'ing DPS. I shouldn't have to lose 500 Greed rolls simply because your view of in-game social rules conflicts with mine, when I have the intention of actually using the item instead of mindlessly selling it.

 

I agree with this

[Drewser]

I ran into this the other day running through a flash point.

 

I selected Need for my companion. Someone got really mad at me for doing that.

I explained that I use my companion 90% of the time outside of groups and one way of getting decent gear is through flashpoints. Getting gear through questing is only ok gear. I am not about to buy gear all the time. I have a sorc and my companion is a tank. I use my tank a lot.

 

Am I wrong on selected Need for my companion?

 

I would like to get peoples opinion on this since this game I think is a little different then other games since we have companions.

 

My argument is since I use my companion 90% soloing, I feel as my companion and me are treated as 1.

 

Yes you were wrong.

[TheSwamper]

I dare all these folks who roll need for their companions to post their actual character names and servers.

 

In fact, I wholeheartedly invite them to do so, as my ignore list still has plenty of room.

 

If you roll need for a companion in a group I'm in, one of us is going to be out of that group very fast.

[jellOfish]

I dare all these folks who roll need for their companions to post their actual character names and servers.

 

In fact, I wholeheartedly invite them to do so, as my ignore list still has plenty of room.

 

If you roll need for a companion in a group I'm in, one of us is going to be out of that group very fast.

 

They won't do that as they know they would quickly get put on ignore lists even though they claim that it is only a "vocal minority" that disagrees with them.

[Ageizm]

I agree with this

 

 

Of course you do, since it's agreeable to your position. The consensus on this issue is clearly you don't roll "need" for a pet without asking.

 

You would become a pariah on my server in no time, and end up spending 100% of your time soloing.

[Varghjerta]

Still amazed how many spoiled instant gratification self entitled players there exist i sure hope that in the end of the month they will go back and play with pandas

[Eldren]

My argument of "how would you feel" is just one of the examples. Even then, if we try to only argue that argument, we still end up having an argument. I DO mind, you DONT. What makes YOUR feelings better than mines or vice versa?

Nothing makes mine better than yours. But since we come at this as equals from diametrically opposed perspectives, one would conclude we'd have to reach some kind of conclusion on the matter if we grouped together (which doesn't seem likely, given the preponderance of servers and two factions, but who knows? We might have already grouped together without realizing it). I have a feeling that it would likely be a scenario where either you or I would leave the group since we both feel so passionately about this issue.

 

What you are trying to do, is trying to break the unspoken rule of the Need and Greed system for your own gain. Do you know why i say for your own gain? Because MOST seasoned MMO players, will strictly follow the rules of the NEED and GREED system. Thereby you are taking advantage of such players by NINJA'ing their drops. Not gonna happen. Will not fly with ANY seasoned MMO player, AND will not fly when most new MMO players have more experience with the game and genre.

You're setting up a false premise. You can't say "most seasoned MMO players", because you have no objective way to back up that statement. The best you can say is "The MMO players I've played with". This aside, the issue here is that the system is very much as you indicated: "unspoken". You're working off an assumption, I'm working off a case-by-case basis. You seem to misunderstand the term "ninja" in the MMO vernacular. It's someone who abuses a loot system by either waiting til everyone has chosen a comparative second option (frequently Greed) and then chooses the top-tier option (Need) to insure they receive the loot. Someone in this particular game rolling Need because it's an upgrade (regardless of for them or their companions) is using the system as intended: to acquire an upgrade for their character.

 

 

You bringing up WoW really has no place in this argument. Not considering your logic about how WoW players wanting to stack the deck for personal gain is extremely flawed and never happened.

 

Only an ahole player would take a "tank" item FROM the tank, for his off spec. They are called NINJAS in ANY MMO, not only in WoW. They are not welcomed in any MMO, this one, or the next.

 

You should really look up the definition for both "Greed" and "need". Then you should think about why such a system was invented and WHY they only have TWO buttons. One NEED and one GREED.

 

That game was brought up solely as a likely-common point of comparison. But it having no place in this conversation, from your perspective, was immediately invalidated by your continuing to build an argument based on its premise. This said, if we had no companions and I wasn't a tank, then yes, taking a tanking item from the group's tank would be suboptimal and a-holish. In this case, however, taking a tanking item for a tank class I intend to use via a companion is perfectly valid. You don't have to agree, but the system assumes companions' presence while leveling, and the system requires upgrades for their gear periodically. You don't get to determine what an acceptable upgrade path for me and the game I pay to play is.

 

 

By your logic, as flawed as it may be, then there wouldnt even be such a system in place. Everyone would just press NEED on every single piece of gear if its an upgrade to one of their companions.

Yes. The existence of companions who fill a variety of roles makes this a distinct probability, which is why a Roll/Pass option makes more sense.

 

 

And finally, since you mentioned WoW, you must have played it in some form or the other....how were you ever able to find a group to play with that didnt already have you black listed? OH THATS RIGHT, they implemented that cross server group thing. Thank god i quit during WOLK.

I ran most of the time with guild members, friends, and same-realm PUGs. This said, as I was playing a class that could both tank and DPS, I would let people know that I was interested in acquiring gear for both specs. 95% of the time, people had no issues with it. Of the remaining 5%, a solid 90% of them would just leave if it came up. The rest would just quietly go on with what they were doing, realizing whatever drop they wanted (and I lost as often as I won on rolls, 'cause that's how RNG works) would drop again, and that wasn't the only time they'd be in the instance.

 

 

Since you REALLY have no problem, by what many of us would call ninja'ing and item, then please give us your character name, faction, and server so those who are in your server who DO mind, do not group with you. Dont forget to put your main character and not a low level alt character name in there.

 

There's one primary reason I don't give these forums my main's name and server, and it has nothing to do with hiding because of reputation concerns. It has everything to do with not wanting to be bothered by people who were particularly upset with a perspective I held here, and felt the need to come to my server and start whispering me ad infinitum to drive home a point I can't be convinced away from to begin with. You don't give out your real name, city and address on an online forum so you have a layer of safety against the whackjobs who actually would take a train, Greyhound or plane to show up on your front doorstep to drive home their point in the fashion they consider most expedient. Likewise, my unwillingness to divulge my online location in this game has nothing to do with lack of faith in my perspective and its logic, and everything to do with maintaining as much control as possible over the gaming experience I pay for.

 

I can't say anything to help you if you really believe that there wouldn't be several who'd take any opportunity they could to show up on my server and start pestering me with tells or trolling/flaming me in homeworld chats (or even the General for the planet I was on at the time!) solely because they were more interested in being "right on the Internet" than in agreeing to disagree.

 

So no, I won't be giving you my character's name and server. But I'll throw you a bone: I'm a 36th level Sith Marauder. Knock yourself out.

[Alcarinn]

There's one primary reason I don't give these forums my main's name and server, and it has nothing to do with hiding because of reputation concerns. It has everything to do with not wanting to be bothered by people who were particularly upset with a perspective I held here, and felt the need to come to my server and start whispering me ad infinitum to drive home a point I can't be convinced away from to begin with. You don't give out your real name, city and address on an online forum so you have a layer of safety against the whackjobs who actually would take a train, Greyhound or plane to show up on your front doorstep to drive home their point in the fashion they consider most expedient. Likewise, my unwillingness to divulge my online location in this game has nothing to do with lack of faith in my perspective and its logic, and everything to do with maintaining as much control as possible over the gaming experience I pay for.

 

I can't say anything to help you if you really believe that there wouldn't be several who'd take any opportunity they could to show up on my server and start pestering me with tells or trolling/flaming me in homeworld chats (or even the General for the planet I was on at the time!) solely because they were more interested in being "right on the Internet" than in agreeing to disagree.

 

So no, I won't be giving you my character's name and server. But I'll throw you a bone: I'm a 36th level Sith Marauder. Knock yourself out.

 

Basically he is afraid...

[Jairec]

I totally understand a person innocently misunderstanding the system, and I would hope other players would attempt education before excoriation. The MMO crowd, generally speaking, tends to be a somewhat insular group (situationally ironic, given that these are "social" games), and there are a lot of unwritten rules of etiquette for a new player to learn.

[Eegorr]

NYou're setting up a false premise. You can't say "most seasoned MMO players", because you have no objective way to back up that statement. The best you can say is "The MMO players I've played with". This aside, the issue here is that the system is very much as you indicated: "unspoken". You're working off an assumption, I'm working off a case-by-case basis. You seem to misunderstand the term "ninja" in the MMO vernacular. It's someone who abuses a loot system by either waiting til everyone has chosen a comparative second option (frequently Greed) and then chooses the top-tier option (Need) to insure they receive the loot. Someone in this particular game rolling Need because it's an upgrade (regardless of for them or their companions) is using the system as intended: to acquire an upgrade for their character.

 

This statement is false. A ninja doesn't wait to see what other people roll. He or she doesn't care, and takes all items to either sell, or in the case for this thread, gear someone who's not even there contributing to the run. It seems like you are the one misunderstanding the term.

 

You are right that we cannot spout any exact numbers, nor should we try, but I'm pretty certain you are going to run into quite a bit of trouble, and well deserved at that, if you try to ninja loot for your companion.

 

The problem is easily solved by talking about it before the run starts. Even though we disagree, I don't get the impression that you would lie about your motives if we were to discuss them prior to a run.

[RycheMykola]

I ran into this the other day running through a flash point.

 

I selected Need for my companion. Someone got really mad at me for doing that.

I explained that I use my companion 90% of the time outside of groups and one way of getting decent gear is through flashpoints. Getting gear through questing is only ok gear. I am not about to buy gear all the time. I have a sorc and my companion is a tank. I use my tank a lot.

 

Am I wrong on selected Need for my companion?

 

I would like to get peoples opinion on this since this game I think is a little different then other games since we have companions.

 

My argument is since I use my companion 90% soloing, I feel as my companion and me are treated as 1.

Yes.

 

If an awesome loot dropped for your Sorceror and someone need rolled, and won it and said it was for their Companion. Would you be upset? Sure you would.

[Eldren]

This statement is false. A ninja doesn't wait to see what other people roll. He or she doesn't care, and takes all items to either sell, or in the case for this thread, gear someone who's not even there contributing to the run. It seems like you are the one misunderstanding the term.

 

You are right that we cannot spout any exact numbers, nor should we try, but I'm pretty certain you are going to run into quite a bit of trouble, and well deserved at that, if you try to ninja loot for your companion.

 

The problem is easily solved by talking about it before the run starts. Even though we disagree, I don't get the impression that you would lie about your motives if we were to discuss them prior to a run.

 

I think we're going to have to disagree with the definition of "ninja", and it becomes a moot point to use in our argument if we can't agree on the terminology. I'm fine with that.

 

As far as my personal play behavior goes, I'm polite enough to ask first. I typically say something along the lines of "That piece is a nice upgrade for my primary companion; mind if I roll Need on it?" I've yet to encounter anyone who's refused, though I'm sure once I get into endgame I'll encounter players who are a lot more stingy with their permissions (which, so we're clear, aren't needed in the first place, but merely courted out of courtesy) because they want to improve their chances at loot as much as others will let them. I understand that perspective, even if I don't agree with it.

 

But on a much more general level, I see no reason why someone's companion isn't considered by some to be a valid upgrade path. We all use them, and we all know how much more difficult many questing experiences can be if they aren't kept up to snuff on their gear. Disagreements over the source of that gear aside, we all acknowledge they require upgrades, so there's no reason we should automatically exclude upgrades that come from group content. The companions might not have been there, but their player-owners were. The companions can't get upgrades on their own, they require their player-owners to get them. The companions are part of a player's overall gear set for the majority of game content that lies outside group content.

 

Sure, it sucks if someone gets an upgrade I wanted. All it means is I lost a loot roll. Not worth quitting a group over, or kicking them from the group 'cause they won the roll.

[Matte_Black]

From my perspective your companion is an extension of your character so, if there is a really good drop you actually need, go for it. I wouldn't begrudge others for it just as if they were collecting gear for an upcoming PvP respec that would not benefit the group's run through a flashpoint.

 

I can especially understand healers doing it because they rely on their companions for alot of their damage while levelling up. I suspect the demand for healers and their known difficulties in levelling with a healing spec will likely mean people will cut them more slack for it.

 

That being said, many players are annoyed by doing so. It would be best to state you will be doing it beforehand and work out if that means you should find another group. Similarly, people who have issue with the practice, should state that they don't want their groupmates doing so from the start too.

[Alcarinn]

From my perspective your companion is an extension of your character so, if there is a really good drop you actually need, go for it. I wouldn't begrudge others for it just as if they were collecting gear for an upcoming PvP respec that would not benefit the group's run through a flashpoint.

 

I can especially understand healers doing it because they rely on their companions for alot of their damage while levelling up. I suspect the demand for healers and their known difficulties in levelling with a healing spec will likely mean people will cut them more slack for it.

 

That being said, many players are annoyed by doing so. It would be best to state you will be doing it beforehand and work out if that means you should find another group. Similarly, people who have issue with the practice, should state that they don't want their groupmates doing so from the start too.

 

But the key point where you are wrong is ''actually need'' you dont ACTUALLY NEED anything for your companion apart from quest gear you get!

 

You want which is entirely different and thus unacceptable

[daemian]

Yes.

 

If an awesome loot dropped for your Sorceror and someone need rolled, and won it and said it was for their Companion. Would you be upset? Sure you would.

 

I wouldn't. But that's just me I guess.

Edited January 6, 2012 by daemian

[Eldren]

But the key point where you are wrong is ''actually need'' you dont ACTUALLY NEED anything for your companion apart from quest gear you get!

 

You want which is entirely different and thus unacceptable

 

This is part of where the disagreement comes from: you don't think the companion actually needs an upgrade outside of quest gear. If someone else disagrees with you, since it's their character and not yours, their choice outweighs yours.

[SingleCoilPickup]

But the key point where you are wrong is ''actually need'' you dont ACTUALLY NEED anything for your companion apart from quest gear you get!

 

You want which is entirely different and thus unacceptable

 

By YOUR definition we don't need it. By my definition I absolutely need it. It's just a different perspective on wants and needs. While you may find it unacceptable, your acceptance isn't really required for the reality of the situation.

[Eegorr]

I think we're going to have to disagree with the definition of "ninja", and it becomes a moot point to use in our argument if we can't agree on the terminology. I'm fine with that.

 

Your definition of a ninja is most likely a subset of mine then.

 

As far as my personal play behavior goes, I'm polite enough to ask first. I typically say something along the lines of "That piece is a nice upgrade for my primary companion; mind if I roll Need on it?" I've yet to encounter anyone who's refused, though I'm sure once I get into endgame I'll encounter players who are a lot more stingy with their permissions (which, so we're clear, aren't needed in the first place, but merely courted out of courtesy) because they want to improve their chances at loot as much as others will let them. I understand that perspective, even if I don't agree with it.

 

That permission is needed, and if you were to ask, get a negative answer and need anyway you would most likely be kicked from the group. It has absolutely nothing with 'maximizing my chances to get the loot' it has everything to do with people taking gear which they either have no use for, in the case of vendoring the item, or gearing up someone who wasn't even there contributing to the run, in the case of your companion. Both are morally wrong, although I will absolutely yield an item to a companion rather than vendoring it (we need a 'need for companion'-button.

 

But on a much more general level, I see no reason why someone's companion isn't considered by some to be a valid upgrade path. We all use them, and we all know how much more difficult many questing experiences can be if they aren't kept up to snuff on their gear. Disagreements over the source of that gear aside, we all acknowledge they require upgrades, so there's no reason we should automatically exclude upgrades that come from group content. The companions might not have been there, but their player-owners were. The companions can't get upgrades on their own, they require their player-owners to get them. The companions are part of a player's overall gear set for the majority of game content that lies outside group content.

 

Sure, it sucks if someone gets an upgrade I wanted. All it means is I lost a loot roll. Not worth quitting a group over, or kicking them from the group 'cause they won the roll.

 

There are two main reasons.

 

• The companions can't use the gear to its fullest extent, while a player can -- moreover, we use our items all the time, but only companions some of the time
  
• The companion isn't there pulling his weight to the run -- it's like if I would need for a guildy (and an underpowered unskilled one at that).
  

[Sithmud]

Hmmm 90% of this game is played single player with a companion, very little time is spent grouped , maybe when BW changes this my opinion may change.

 

I think its reasonable to grab loot for your companion , tho if I was in a group with 3 BH and a uber orange blaster drops , i would not grab it for a companion that I dont use .

But trash green stuff , wouldnt even think twice about hitting need , if I knew for sure my tank needed it .

 

Hopefully BW fixes this game so that , 90% of my game time is not solo with a companion , when that changes I will agree that need for companions is bad, but in its present singleplayerish ness .... phlem ball needs his gear too, I cant lvl without him.

[ThiborF]

There is no "right" or "wrong" to feeling that needing for your companion is acceptable or not.

 

It is only wrong when you assume that everyone else in a random group is going to feel the same way you do about it and choose not to discuss loot rules prior to the start of the run.