Selecting Need for your companion

[MichellMich]

I ran into this the other day running through a flash point.

 

I selected Need for my companion. Someone got really mad at me for doing that.

I explained that I use my companion 90% of the time outside of groups and one way of getting decent gear is through flashpoints. Getting gear through questing is only ok gear. I am not about to buy gear all the time. I have a sorc and my companion is a tank. I use my tank a lot.

 

Am I wrong on selected Need for my companion?

 

I would like to get peoples opinion on this since this game I think is a little different then other games since we have companions.

 

My argument is since I use my companion 90% soloing, I feel as my companion and me are treated as 1.

 

Seems like the general consensus is that player's Need > Companion. If however no one needs it, then it's fair game. Players needs tend to take priority of companions.

[joriandrake]

Which is why the default Greed option exists. If no one rolls need on that piece of gear, everyone has that equal shot.

 

However, if someone in the Flashpoint needs an item for their player character - not their companions - that is what the Need option is for. It exists as that third option so that your only options aren't "roll" and "pass". Say people actually WANT the tank to get the best Tank gear, but want a shot at it just in case the tank doesn't actually need it. That's what Need is for.

 

No one really needs blues and up for anything other than Flashpoints. Questing Greens are all you need to get by on both yourself and companions. What good will giving your companions Flashpoint gear do, really? Companions don't get talent trees, get a very limited set of abilities that caps out at level 35, and are basically worth half a character. The difference between proper-leveled greens and blues is not going to give you that much of an edge. The only reason for keeping companions in blues is vanity - which is why the Greed option is appropriate.

 

On a player character, however, Flashpoint gear is exceptional and makes a large difference. Flashpoint gear is designed to be gear that players can wear all the way up to their next flashpoint and still be good to adequate. Flashpoint gear, being meant for use IN flashpoints, means that companions have no good reason to use it unless no one can use a certain piece. This is why the Greed option exists: if a dupe drops, and you don't know it's a dupe, you don't have to pass when you didn't have to.

 

 

Gear for a companion is also important, especially for RP flavor, and because you see them for 99% of the time you play, a properly improved slotted item from a flashpoint is improving use of a companion tenfold, especially if you are more of a single-player kinda player, what many of Bioware/KOTOR fans are. The way an armor looks on yourself and on your companions is more important to me than actual stats, especially if said items are moddable and usable till endgame.

 

Naturally, player need is way more important than companion one (if honest), but I already mentioned a few examples of how personal understanding of "need" can cause issues no matter what.

Edited January 6, 2012 by joriandrake

[pudim]

They really should just add a "Need for Companion" button

 

I approve this idea

Edited January 6, 2012 by pudim

[BigBadEdward]

OK, here is the scenario:

 

4 of us in a group all fight a big bad Boss guy. Some of us die and some of us don't but we all contribute our parts and we win the fight.

 

A prime piece of gear drops.

 

Wy should any person in the group get a higher claim than anyone else?

[Shillen]

I say roll on whatever you want. You might need money for example the item can bring you. People just feel entitled these days. Used to be Id roll greed but since everyone hits need on everything thats what I do also. I have yet to find anyone who is upset over that they all roll need too.

 

You don't realize that these people are putting you on their ignore list and talking about what a horrible person you are to their guilds. Needing on everything is not remotely acceptable to just about anyone. They all hit need also because that's the only way to somewhat combat what you're doing, not because that's what they think should be done.

[Findulidas]

Need will always be for the char not companions. If no one needs the gear then you can ask for needing for your companion. Rolling for gear will always be mainly for grouping experiences NOT soloing. Thats where your companions will always be second.

 

Someone had probably already said this but it should be restated again and again, until people realize that soloing will be second because when grouping, going for the group comes first. Not your pet project companion.

[Caramel_Ham]

The argument of "how would you feel" falls apart the instant you find a player who says "It wouldn't bother me." I'm one of those players.

 

Losing loot rolls is part and parcel of the MMO experience. You chalk it up to bad luck, and you try again if you really need the particular piece that dropped.

 

What people are attempting to do is stack the deck to improve their personal chances of getting loot, by reducing the number of people rolling on a given drop. Their explanations are just misdirections (attempted, anyway) to keep people from realizing that. It goes back to WoW with there being one tank in a group of 5, and wanting to do everything in their power to protect their functional lock on tanking drops, to the point that Blizzard finally assigned group roles to loot, with the intent to eventually incorporate active specs on each character.

 

Four players go into a leveling Flashpoint. Each of them has companions, each of whom can use upgrades. Four players down a boss. Four players get to roll on a drop. Nothing could be more fair or impartial.

 

It's not the business of the 3 losing players what the 1 winning player does with the loot they won.

 

My argument of "how would you feel" is just one of the examples. Even then, if we try to only argue that argument, we still end up having an argument. I DO mind, you DONT. What makes YOUR feelings better than mines or vice versa?

 

Obviously then we cannot reach an accord, so we have to go to the next logical argument. So on and so forth. This has already been discussed to death for many years.

 

What you are trying to do, is trying to break the unspoken rule of the Need and Greed system for your own gain. Do you know why i say for your own gain? Because MOST seasoned MMO players, will strictly follow the rules of the NEED and GREED system. Thereby you are taking advantage of such players by NINJA'ing their drops. Not gonna happen. Will not fly with ANY seasoned MMO player, AND will not fly when most new MMO players have more experience with the game and genre.

 

You bringing up WoW really has no place in this argument. Not considering your logic about how WoW players wanting to stack the deck for personal gain is extremely flawed and never happened.

 

Only an ahole player would take a "tank" item FROM the tank, for his off spec. They are called NINJAS in ANY MMO, not only in WoW. They are not welcomed in any MMO, this one, or the next.

 

You should really look up the definition for both "Greed" and "need". Then you should think about why such a system was invented and WHY they only have TWO buttons. One NEED and one GREED.

 

By your logic, as flawed as it may be, then there wouldnt even be such a system in place. Everyone would just press NEED on every single piece of gear if its an upgrade to one of their companions.

 

And finally, since you mentioned WoW, you must have played it in some form or the other....how were you ever able to find a group to play with that didnt already have you black listed? OH THATS RIGHT, they implemented that cross server group thing. Thank god i quit during WOLK.

 

Since you REALLY have no problem, by what many of us would call ninja'ing and item, then please give us your character name, faction, and server so those who are in your server who DO mind, do not group with you. Dont forget to put your main character and not a low level alt character name in there.

[Vydor_HC]

I ran into this the other day running through a flash point.

 

I selected Need for my companion. Someone got really mad at me for doing that.

I explained that I use my companion 90% of the time outside of groups and one way of getting decent gear is through flashpoints. Getting gear through questing is only ok gear. I am not about to buy gear all the time. I have a sorc and my companion is a tank. I use my tank a lot.

 

Am I wrong on selected Need for my companion?

 

I would like to get peoples opinion on this since this game I think is a little different then other games since we have companions.

 

My argument is since I use my companion 90% soloing, I feel as my companion and me are treated as 1.

 

No, you're not wrong to select need for your companion. This game is new and lots of folks haven't come around to accepting that shift yet, but they eventually will. For now just let people know ahead of time about looting preferences and things will work out.

[jellOfish]

OK, here is the scenario:

 

4 of us in a group all fight a big bad Boss guy. Some of us die and some of us don't but we all contribute our parts and we win the fight.

 

A prime piece of gear drops.

 

Wy should any person in the group get a higher claim than anyone else?

 

Because he get's more benefit out of it than you who would sell it or give it to your compation who can't fully utilize it. Also because it's common sense, at least I thought so but it seems common sense is not so common.

[Leggomy]

You don't realize that these people are putting you on their ignore list and talking about what a horrible person you are to their guilds. Needing on everything is not remotely acceptable to just about anyone. They all hit need also because that's the only way to somewhat combat what you're doing, not because that's what they think should be done.

 

It is acceptable to everyone who joins the groups I form. Noone seems to have any issues except a few on this thread. You guys have some kind of control issue I say. Also I dont care if some guild wants to put me on ignore. I dont need them or anyone I form groups all the time. There are 1000s of people waiting for you to form the group because they dont want to.

[Maccaroth]

What's more important for you; your character OR your companion? Players are equal to players and companions are equal to companions. You can claim anything you want. Nothing formally is going to stop you from doing so. It's more about being social or not.

 

Most people I played with - me included - didn't have problem with someone else taking an item for companion if none of the players characters needed it and asked before taking Need for it. In most cases Greed options seems to suffice and nobody even thought it was necessary to discuss loot rules so far during mu PuGs.

[jellOfish]

It is acceptable to everyone who joins the groups I form. Noone seems to have any issues except a majority on this thread. You guys have some kind of control issue I say. Also I dont care if some guild wants to put me on ignore. I dont need them or anyone I form groups all the time. There are 1000s of people waiting for you to form the group because they dont want to.

 

Fixed that for you. And I must say good luck to you, fro you will find out later why it's not a good idea.

[Revenaught]

Seems like the general consensus is that player's Need > Companion. If however no one needs it, then it's fair game. Players needs tend to take priority of companions.

 

No it isnt the general consensus. Its the consensus of a very vocal part of the forum readers but there is also a growing group that believe what was normal policy in other game does not automatically fit this one.

[Vid-szhite]

No, I do understand the loot system. You just have agreed to stipulations of a perceived social contract that I have no need nor desire to be a part of.

 

But go ahead, protect yourself from me! The guy that goes above and beyond for his group just because 1 in every 30 or so drops I see something I want for a companion and click "Need."

 

I've never heard of anything so immature in my life.

 

And here I thought the people playing Call of Duty were the most immature gamers of all. I can see I was mistaken.

 

I see your attitude and see nothing but arrogance. I am a tank just like you. Every day, every group, I go above and beyond the call. Is there any other setting for a tank? Of course not. It's our job to go above and beyond. I stay behind and run Heroics AGAIN if a latecomer missed a step. I do all the things you say you do. Unlike you, I don't use that as an excuse to be selfish in other aspects of the game. Needing on gear for companions is selfish.

 

To say that companions matter just as much as people, then get mad at people for taking a game too seriously, is contradictory. Companions are nothing but code in the system, and the difference in performance you gain from giving them exceptional gear is minimal because they lack the tools, talents, and abilities that players do. To take them more seriously than the people who helped you on that Flashpoint is taking a game quite seriously. What's more, you're taking your own contribution to that game far too seriously. It reeks of cynicism and arrogance.

 

I don't care how good a tank you are, you still need a healer, and you still need real DPS players to finish a flashpoint, because you can't tell a companion not to stand in the fire, companions can't focus-fire, companions can't CC and off-tank, and even with really good gear, companions can't outheal 4 Flashpoint bosses for as long as you need them to. Everyone has a job, and taking hits and getting killed is ours. The philosophy of a tank is completely incompatible with your worldview - we take hits because if we're the one taking hits, everyone does a better job, just like if everyone who can use a piece of gear to its maximum effect gets that piece of gear, everyone does better. The willingness to give your life for the group isn't exceptional behavior for a tank, it's bare minimum. If you aren't willing to accept that as part of your job description, you aren't a real tank.

 

You think you can lord over DPS because our job is "important"? Any fight with adds requires good DPS players as well. The first boss of Mandalorian Raiders has Champion-level adds with no aggro tables - we as tanks are completely useless against those adds. Believe it or not, our job isn't always the most important one. Everyone works as a team, and everyone contributes. Your companions don't contribute to flash points and never will. Giving them gear designed to be used IN flashpoints is gravy, which is why we certainly do not "need" on that gear.

[jellOfish]

No it isnt the general consensus. Its the consensus of a very vocal part of the forum readers but there is also a growing group that believe what was normal policy in other game does not automatically fit this one.

 

Not just other games, just about all of the MMO genre. Not very experienced in MMOs, eh?

Edited January 6, 2012 by jellOfish

[joriandrake]

no matter what one does there will be always complainers, even if needing perfectly proper items, as in case of a Marauder needing a strength/endurance orange(moddable) lightsaber for itself and a Juggernaut getting pissed off for it and placing you on /ignore because of this

 

 

 

Also, orange color items are pretty much free game in case they are not restricted and you would want to use it for yourself with swapped mods in it, even if base mods would fit an other class more. As example in beta I used the Talon Sniper's Jacket on my own Marauder for about 20 levels, only swapping and improving mods with time. Despite that it starts out with stats that benefit an agent.

[Kandrick]

Played mmo's since the original EQ, erm, way back when. I agree with the majority on this thread about rolling need for the class you brought to the group, greed on anything else. I am confused a little though. Why would anyone need for a companion in a flashpoint when companions are redundant at 50 ?

 

Rolling need for a companion to me is no different than me (tank) rolling on healer BoE gear because my guild healer might want it.

 

Pets are there to help you through the solo levelling but are useless at 50 other than for running missions and crafting. After 50 you will always be grouped, or not if you needed on everyone else's gear while levelling.

[origional]

Need Need Need with Ninja Speed.

 

Get over it whiny people. If my Companion NEEDS gear then im gonna NEED on items that comes up. I treat my companion like a piece of equipment because thats effectively whe he is in the game, an additional piece of equipment without which you would struggle to play solo.

[joriandrake]

Played mmo's since the original EQ, erm, way back when. I agree with the majority on this thread about rolling need for the class you brought to the group, greed on anything else. I am confused a little though. Why would anyone need for a companion in a flashpoint when companions are redundant at 50 ?

 

Rolling need for a companion to me is no different than me (tank) rolling on healer BoE gear because my guild healer might want it.

 

Pets are there to help you through the solo levelling but are useless at 50 other than for running missions and crafting. After 50 you will always be grouped, or not if you needed on everyone else's gear while levelling.

 

Not everyone plays in pvp, or plans to, and you see your companions 99% of the time you play, so getting them wear what you like on them is a sound and RP flavor plan. Also, not always are groups full, if there are less than 4 players one or more companions can be used, I myself prefer a 2 or max 3 player group for heroics most of the time post-lvl20, gives the questing a more personal touch, and with less players it also means less rushing, a full 4 player group often rushes through every quest without giving you a time to breath and look around and really enjoy it.

 

Many players are also hardcore single-player players who are fans of Bioware/KOTOR/SW and only play this because one or more of these 3 listed are on their "like/love" list, despite that they hate mmo-s.

Edited January 6, 2012 by joriandrake

[Vid-szhite]

OK, here is the scenario:

 

4 of us in a group all fight a big bad Boss guy. Some of us die and some of us don't but we all contribute our parts and we win the fight.

 

A prime piece of gear drops.

 

Wy should any person in the group get a higher claim than anyone else?

 

That loot can only be put to its best use by certain people. They get higher claim because it's the most efficient way to get everyone geared up in good stuff. If tanks get tank gear, healers get healer gear, so on and so forth, the next time you run, no one has to die. If everyone got whatever dropped, the tank only has a 1/4 chance of getting his own gear even if it dropped, which means everyone's going to be subpar for a long time.

 

It's a give and take. You give the tank his gear in return for him giving you your gear. It's a social contract that benefits everyone in the long run, because no matter what, players in better gear is always better than companions in better gear.

 

It matters the most in endgame content. If someone rolled Need on endgame gear for his companion, when companions can't even run endgame content, or worse, rolled Need for endgame gear to sell it, it holds your entire raid group back from completing better (harder) content.

[joriandrake]

That loot can only be put to its best use by certain people. They get higher claim because it's the most efficient way to get everyone geared up in good stuff. If tanks get tank gear, healers get healer gear, so on and so forth, the next time you run, no one has to die. If everyone got whatever dropped, the tank only has a 1/4 chance of getting his own gear even if it dropped, which means everyone's going to be subpar for a long time.

 

It's a give and take. You give the tank his gear in return for him giving you your gear. It's a social contract that benefits everyone in the long run, because no matter what, players in better gear is always better than companions in better gear.

 

It matters the most in endgame content. If someone rolled Need on endgame gear for his companion, when companions can't even run endgame content, or worse, rolled Need for endgame gear to sell it, it holds your entire raid group back from completing better (harder) content.

 

Don't forget about orange items, even if the mods in it may fit an other class better, if a player likes it and wants it for his own use despite different class, it is logical to Need it and then swap mods in it.

[Jairec]

People before AI. We all "need" to upgrade our companions, so rolling need for companions undermines the need/greed system. We all "need" money, so rolling need on things to sell undermines the need/greed system. In my experience, most players consider a need roll to be on an item that is a statistical upgrade for you personally, that you intend to equip immediately.

 

Alts, off spec, companions, selling for credits... Those are all greed rolls.

[joriandrake]

People before AI. We all "need" to upgrade our companions, so rolling need for companions undermines the need/greed system. We all "need" money, so rolling need on things to sell undermines the need/greed system. In my experience, most players consider a need roll to be on an item that is a statistical upgrade for you personally, that you intend to equip immediately.

 

Alts, off spec, companions, selling for credits... Those are all greed rolls.

 

I am not a mmo player myself, so for me things like cc had to be explained, just as well I misunderstood the meaning of Need/Greed the first time, I am sure many people don't intentionally misuse the need check and are also in a similar situation as I was in beta.

[Sivn]

Im of the opinion that need is for your character only, greed for everything else companion included.

 

Of course Bioware havent helped themselves with the loot system and they should really lockout the ability to need on items your character cant use.

[jellOfish]

I am not a mmo player myself, so for me things like cc had to be explained, just as well I misunderstood the meaning of Need/Greed the first time, I am sure many people don't intentionally misuse the need check and are also in a similar situation as I was in beta.

 

And that's why communication is important. Just like in the case of a piece of gear you want for the looks as opposed to the player that actually needs it for the stats. You don't really NEED it. Can you roll on it cuz you want to look in a specific way? Sure. But it's generally frowned upon, just saying.