Lina_Inverse Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Hidden Strike = full resolve bar Just a reminder! I know people are arguing it, but the CC= Less than half the problem. CC wouldn't be near as bad if they couldn't bring you 70% of your health before you could get up (easily). You could break it with your 2m cd break of course, but then you know, their vanish shares that 2m cd, and they could really just open again for the remaining bit of your health, or use their out of stealth moves to just finish you off with a quick flash on your healer. They aren't helpless out of stealth, just weaker. It doesn't take someone with 100% cds when the fight is 100% hp operative/scoundrel to 30% other player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Countryfiedjedi Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I've done it to a 50 Sage with the Expertise WZ buff, my Champ relic, and a surge adrenal. And I've been 4 shotted by my guildmate Merc who did the same thing. NERF EVERYONE AND EVERYTHING AHHHH!!! Which is why I wrote the other sentence... being 3 shot is not because it was an Operative, or the Operatives abilities... I'm pretty sure there were other factors involved that he selectively omits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locustone Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 (edited) This. This just smells fishy. We'll assume that no other 3rd parties were involved in anyway... You say you were stunned, and not knocked down. Stunned, knocked down what's the differnce, I couldn't do anything, that's why I imediatly used my break free ability and the dot he left on me was ticking for about 300 each time all the while. Then you choked him. And you did what? Ravage? Ravage is channeled and it doesn't break choke. It was not blind, i was stunned again, and he unloaded on me and I couldn't do a darn thing. Ok... then he stuns you back... which has to be debilitate. This gives him a few more seconds to do another BS/Evis, maybe another Evis if it procs. BTW, you should have saved your CC break for this rather than use it on Flash Bang... since Flash Bang automatically breaks with dmg. So lets assume your were REALLY unlucky and he crit everytime he hit you... which is astronomically unlucky. You now down to about 2.5K health... Either OP's are consistantly lucky or most other classes are unlucky. I don't think luck has anything to do with it, face it the class does too much damage compared to others, there is no reason why it should. Can't justify this with luck. Had you healed during your choke, you still would have been in a good situation to deal with him. This is laughable, those healing stims would have givin me enough life to survive maybe one aditional attack and he was nowhere near dead. On top of that Ravage is channeled and there is not room for heal. Nice try though. Edited January 6, 2012 by Locustone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allfader Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 (edited) Lol, I have 10%ish expertise and valor rank 58. I agree with all the QQ threads. Scrapper/Concealment is just completely broken atm. Everyone knows it. If you disagree you are either retarded or play a scrapper/concealment. It's funny to see people coming in here to flame all the QQ posts or actually try to use some distorted logic in hopes to deter the inevitable nerfs. It's only a matter of time. Enjoy it now when the PvP means absolutely nothing. Haha, it's going to be great when you get the "slicing" treatment. The real question is, how fast will they respond to this retarded aspect of class balancing. Is Bioware going to go the Blizzard route and leave things broken for months & months or are they going to go the Rift route and just over-nerf everything ending all PvP? I hope there is a swift resolution before the "new car smell" of the game wears off and I just get sick of 1 button mashing mongo's destroying me if my 2m trinket is on CD. One button mashing mongo's? Have you played the class? I'm guessing not because in order to effectively burn down a light armor wearing class there is a lot of set-up involved. First, you have to use Acid Blade. Then you have to take the 15% expertise adrenal, and preferably a stim, too, if you have Biochem. Then you have the opener, Hidden Strike. That has the knockdown and instantly fills the resolve bar. If they have their trinket ability off CD, we're screwed from there thanks to the positional/input lag that destroys melee in Warzones. What's worse, if it's a class in Medium or Heavy Armor, regardless of expertise, we lose a portion of damage from our opener. Now assuming that all goes right, we still have to hit Backstab, Shiv, Lacerate, Lacerate. That's 7 - 9 button presses. You want to talk about one button pressers, talk about Sorcerers. They sit on a ledge and spam force lightning until their target is dead. Select new target, rinse, repeat. Every class has a role to serve, and the Operative is burst and nothing else. About 10 things have to go their way before they can kill someone 1v1 in PvP, and they have no chance at survival if somebody comes along to help them unless they have a Vanish up. Before you come in here asking for a class to get nerfed just because they kill you, try and actually pay attention to everything around you, not just "OMG I DIED NERF NERF NERF!!!!!" Edited January 6, 2012 by Allfader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamstaxo Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Hidden Strike = full resolve bar Just a reminder! just got stunned in huttball 8 (in words EIGHT) times in a row on 15meters with a full resolve bar the system is completly nonsense because there are so many ccs which just ignore the bar and ignore the breakfree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delavager Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 As the game isn't based on 1v1, really this is no reason to complain. I'm a jedi shadow, and have not played operative, and I can do the same thing as operatives can, just not as quickly. As far as warzones go, really the ops being "imba" only applies to when they pick someone off who's completely alone. If they get targeted they go down FAST, and as it's many vs many, if they come out stealth to CC someone, someone else should be there to kill them. Basically when it comes to the objectives of warzones, Operatives aren't very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTCMidas Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 After we Hidden Strike you, we can't stun you again until your resolve bar is gone. If you can't kill use or force us to run away by then, you're dead. I'm a poor Juggy... there is no way I can kill anyone in the span of a resolve bar I'm only 45 in upgraded level 40 pvp gear so I don't have expertise or stuff like that... and yeah, Ops and such will 3-4 shot me. Granted it's the level 50's that do it so there is a gear disparity. While the opener is vicious... I don't think it is the thing that needs to be toned down, it's the buffs. Expertise + Surge adrenals = pain. I'm sure the lvl 50 bracket will help smooth things out a bit. Also, what ability are they using that they are out of stealth and hitting multiple times for 2.5k a pop? That scares me more than their opener... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Countryfiedjedi Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 (edited) This. The difference is Hidden Strike provides you with a full resolve bar... which means he couldn't have stunned you a 2nd time. We have 3 CC's and an ability that causes knockdown... only 1 of the CC's doesn't break from damage (debilitate). So, if you were CC'd a 2nd time, he either opened with sleep from stealth (not likely, why would an Op bother when he's about to attack you?), hit you with Flash Bang or Debilitate. One of those 2 CC's had to be Flash Bang... It really doesn't matter in which order. Which means 1 attack before you can react on the CC. Debilitate is maybe 3... but only 1 can be a Backstab. So like I said, unless he was the luckiest Op in the game and crit you everytime, the story seems unlikely. Something else is being left out... you weren't at full health or probably a 3rd party you failed to notice. But I'm sure the next response will magically include more details that you just remembered to debunk any other possibilities. Edited January 6, 2012 by Countryfiedjedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Countryfiedjedi Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 just got stunned in huttball 8 (in words EIGHT) times in a row on 15meters with a full resolve bar the system is completly nonsense because there are so many ccs which just ignore the bar and ignore the breakfree So nerf Operatives right? I hope you guys don't raise children like this. "The tv remote isn't working! I saw Jimmy with it last, guess I should beat him!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rexell Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 What happens when you DO use your trinket? Ok, so you're at half health (or less) from the opening move. Great. I suppose the operatives here think they are twice as bad out of stealth than all other classes right? That's what it would take to be equal and balanced.. Opening move doesn't do 1/2 health by itself.. even on a crit. I'm in decent gear for lvl 50 and have over 15k health unbuffed. Opening hit isn't doing 8k without massive buffs, stims, relics, etc. Or they have a ton of expertise and you have none.. in which case, sorry get some pvp gear. I almost forgot, they will just cc you again, almost immediately. There's no trinket going to save you against this class, you're going to die no matter how well you play. You can't be CC'd again. You are immune to CC after the initial knockdown. Before someone quotes me, let me just say that to tell me to learn how to play or learn your class is beyond comical. I don't think I need to repeat what you already said. That opening move, as well as the sickly short cd on their cc afterwards will leave even the best players dead on the floor or standing there looking foolish. Period. Don't even try to defend it. Which CC afterwards is on a sickly short CD?... especially the one you aren't immune to after the initial attack? why aren't you using your CC on them after you stand up? What level are you? What level are they? What gear do each of you have? What buffs do each of you have? Are you using your tradeskill items? Stimpacks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revenantess Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I play an operative, and I won't deny the initial burst is redic. After that though, I usually get butchered by a merc or tossed into acid by a jedi or sith. Not to mention that anyone that can see through my stealth usually butchers me. A few changes sure, but I've seen alot of people rage quit over the sort of "changes" some people want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmiekros Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I don't really get 3 shot and I'm not in full PvP gear. Guess using trinket + force camo works. Or hell, just being able to see and react. Are you sure you're playing the game? Have you tried playing this instead? ROFL, best game evar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trenyc Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Hey guys, I haz secret: team game is for teams. Shush, don't tell anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYzMikey Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 This sums up the OP http://penny-arcade.com/comic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Karsk Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I play an operative, and I won't deny the initial burst is redic. After that though, I usually get butchered by a merc or tossed into acid by a jedi or sith. Not to mention that anyone that can see through my stealth usually butchers me. A few changes sure, but I've seen alot of people rage quit over the sort of "changes" some people want. Well all the devs need to do is reduce the OP knife burst damage by 50% and give the class more endurance issue gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revenantess Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Sure I'll happily take a 50% backstab dmg reduction in pvp, in exchange I want to actually be stealthed, instead of being seen at a dozen yards away. What do you say devs? A deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Countryfiedjedi Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Also, what ability are they using that they are out of stealth and hitting multiple times for 2.5k a pop? That scares me more than their opener... Yeah, no kidding! As an Operative, I'd love to know as well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackadda Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 If you're in pvp gear, you shouldn't even drop below 50%. Something is really wrong with you if you're dropping sub 50% from an operative's hidden strike combo. Youve never played a Non operative at lvl 50 have you? and something is really wrong here...but its not the people being hit for 70-80% from stealth while wearing full PVP gear. Good ops and smugglers *routinely* take down Champ//BM spec toons of all classes into the 20% health range in their opening burst... regardless if the target trinkets out of the knockdown. Someone posted above you they are hitting for 7k on their biggest hit BM specced toons by stacking the available surge trinkets... which backs up that yes in fact... they easily take people down 70-80% in theiir 3 hit burst. 7k/3.5k/2.5k is about right from my experience... It maybe that surge stacking is the reason, but it also stands that they are able to do this against EVERY class due to their armor piercing from stealth....so everything is squishy when you ignore 50% armor. TBH im not calling for a total nerf... just one which lessens their effectivness against some classes or if the burst remains as is, An adjustment to RESTEALTHING mechanics so that they cant stealth again for 10-20 seconds after taking damage. Adjustments are needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delavager Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 It's a trade off... They completely murder you within the opening burst (if you don't know what you are doing) and in trade, completely suck and anything objective like of team based. You all seem to forget it's not 1v1, it's many vs many. It's a TEAM game, and ops aren't good in teams. Also if you reduced their opening knife by 50% and gave them more endurance, they'd be shadow/assassins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tealo Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I'm sure there's a lot of people who hate me for my burst dmg. Trinket > Tracer > Tracer > HS > Rail shot. 3k hit each shot in roughly 5 secs. Oh wait this is about IA/Smugs... /ignore previous statement >.> Seriously, the stuns is annoying at best. but not game changing. Let them keep their silly knock downs. They have to stop mercs from frying their buddies somehow right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogsson Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 As a sniper its impossible to kite an operative/scoundrel..we are just free kills for them... Coming out of hide like chickens 3 shot u then once they get ganked they instant hide again..if thats not OP then *** fix cover and overall sniper class nerf the the hell as **** operatives/scoundrel... Every noob can play an operative atm..just go hide select a target with 50% gank him kill him with 2 shot go back to hide OH NO YOU DIDN'T... Did I just witness a SNIPER calling another class for CHICKEN? This "nerf HIM and HIM because they KILLED me!!!!"-threads needs to stop, really... what queerclasses/specs are you playing if you get killed constantly? Are you afking? Are you going solo and jumps into 3-4 people and die? Share your experience, Warzones is NOT 1v1 games... All I can say to those constantly failing is l2p. I'm not even level 50 yet and I must be the only one not having any major problems with Operatives (and I'm playing ASSASSIN). Think those Snipers sitting (like you described Operatives ) far far back and doing their 2.3k+ noncrits on me all the time, those are the most threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyj_ Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 playing a sorc with 400+ expertise here. The only chance vs sc or op are hitting them first from distance You'l get ripped to shreds before you can even react by these guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Gao_Gao Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 hey guys i was killed by this guy with the fat body type. he decloaked and sat on me, and this cc lasted until i was dead! i was in full champion gear! nerf the fat body type please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baalzamon Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Any proof of that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Sidac- Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 LOL OP! At least you're not dead before they leave stealth! I have 14k health and 32% dmg resistance and I still drop before their stealth wears off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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