The Sniper's Handbook

[Easelman]

Here's a question...

 

When you start a warzone, should you hit laze target. Why wait?

[EthanLight]

6d. Hybrid Builds -- There is actually evidence that a hybrid MM/Eng build is competitive (if not slightly higher in DPS) than pure MM. There has been little scientific exploration of Eng/Leth or MM/Leth hybrid builds, but in my opinion it is too early to make hard claims for or against them.

 

Any chance you can point me to this MM/Eng build? I'd be very interested in seeing it. I have a guess (either Followthrough/Imperial Methodology, or just dropping the Rapid Fire ability that I think has dubious value anyway for Interrogation Probe) but want to see what other people are looking at.

Edited January 24, 2012 by EthanLight

[Tibbel]

Any chance you can point me to this MM/Eng build?

 

...Followthrough/Imperial Methodology...

 

That's the one

 

23/16/2

 

You want to pick up Recoil Control to go with FT in the MM tree, then Imperial Methodology in Engineering, and the last 2 points go into Lethality in... well... Lethality.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Tibbel

[DarthNeedle]

Super-helpful guide; many thanks!

[Karaokelove]

I hate to admit it, but I'm starting to get very frustrated with the Sniper in PvP. It's probably a combination of my lack of fantastic pvp equipment and the fact that my machine can barely handle SWTOR so I lag a bit, but it just seems like Bounty Hunters and Sith Sorcerers outclass us in every regard. You would think that a Sniper would have the advantage in a ranged shoot-out with a Sorcerer, especially my Engineer build with all of its defense abilities in effect and my maxed-out Adrenal and Stim packs, but no. I still die in 4 hits, and am unable to get the Sorcerer below 50% health. If I do start to win, they just LoS and start healing and I'm forced to leave cover, losing my Ballistic Shield. If I'm really unlucky, the BH just takes away my ability to go into cover, completely neutering me until I'm either dead or can somehow escape. Also, due to lag, there seems to be about a 50/50 chance that Cover just decides not to activate, no matter how many times I spam the cover button. Typically by the time my Sniper enters cover, the enemy is either gone or I am dead...

 

It's been said that all dps classes are balanced to within a 5% damage output. However, you would think that Snipers would receive some benefit to compensate for our dependance on Cover. It seems to me, based on my recent entry into the 50's pvp bracket, that the Sniper is a pve king, but merely cannon fodder when it comes to PvP. Hopefully I can report back better news when I've managed to collect some better pvp gear, but until then, I'm sad to say I am severely disappointed in the Sniper's pvp utility.

 

P.S. It's always suspicious when 80%-90% of every single pvp team is composed of a single class. Literally the last dozen or so matches I have been in, each team has had at least 6 to 9 Sorcerers...

[EthanLight]

Yeah, that's a thing, the Sorcerer bit. I don't get it myself. Lot of wannabe Palpatines I guess?

 

Two things about 50 PvP for Snipers:

 

1) As you probably already know, you're pretty much cannon fodder until you've got a decent amount of expertise because there's plenty of people that have been at 50 for a decently longer time than you.

2) Mobility is an issue. Lethality is your best bet in PvP because less of your major abilities will require cover. I can't speak to Engineering, but if you want to do Markman, your best bet is to find a point on a given map where you can assert control without being easily reached. A good example is the upper ramps in the Huttball map. You're not going to be doing piles of damage, but you'll be able to pick things off without them walking right up to you. Bonus points if you camp between the flame vents and make people walk through it to find you.

 

It's not great, but... For the time being, just gotta make the best of it. :|

 

That's the one

 

23/16/2

 

You want to pick up Recoil Control to go with FT in the MM tree, then Imperial Methodology in Engineering, and the last 2 points go into Lethality in... well... Lethality.

 

I haven't seen the actual spec anywhere, but when I played around with a skill calculator I came up with that exactly. I guess the appeal is extra Snipes? Does that mess with stat priority at all? I can see why the lack of Imperial Assassin devalues crit just a tad.

Edited January 25, 2012 by EthanLight

[Vapesk]

In your DPE calculation you factored the returned energy into snipe due to channel, but didn't factor it into frag grenade for GCD. In theory shouldn't all abilities except those that ignore the global cooldown have the -6 or whatever energy subtracted in those calculations since they effectively take 1.5 to execute (even though they aren't channeled).

 

Granted, the subtraction of energy happens before the addition it should still work out the same way. If you use 20 energy and gain 6 in 1.5 seconds, then if you started at 90, used an ability, you should be at 76 by the time you're able to use your next ability. Unless of course it ignore GCD in which case a DPE calculate wouldn't have the +6 built into it.

[Karaokelove]

In your DPE calculation you factored the returned energy into snipe due to channel, but didn't factor it into frag grenade for GCD. In theory shouldn't all abilities except those that ignore the global cooldown have the -6 or whatever energy subtracted in those calculations since they effectively take 1.5 to execute (even though they aren't channeled).

 

Granted, the subtraction of energy happens before the addition it should still work out the same way. If you use 20 energy and gain 6 in 1.5 seconds, then if you started at 90, used an ability, you should be at 76 by the time you're able to use your next ability. Unless of course it ignore GCD in which case a DPE calculate wouldn't have the +6 built into it.

 

That's a very good point. I'll look at my calculations and adjust accordingly. Thanks!

[Karaokelove]

Well I'm starting to come to the conclusion that the Sniper is purely a PvE-oriented class. I'm not going to post that exact statement in the guide until I can do some more extensive testing, but as it stands we just seem to be completely outclassed in warzones. The Engineer spec, especially, has quite a hard time, considering that AoE damage is good for getting medals but not much else. Yes, Snipers can dish out damage. I have seen many Snipers appear in the top 3 damage slots many times. The issue is that damage alone doesn't win warzones, but damage alone is all we're capable of. While other classes can heal, jump between platforms, and pull/push their enemies around (while still managing to dish out as much damage as us...), we are stuck in the background taking pot-shots at stragglers.

 

However, in PvE environments the Sniper seems to be an exceptionally powerful class. I find myself contributing greatly to any team I'm on, and am able to solo content other classes seem to have trouble with. Even open-world PvP isn't an issue, because it all really comes down to damage with a bit of strategy. It's just when it comes to warzones that we seem to be completely gimped.

[Xtrema]

Well I'm starting to come to the conclusion that the Sniper is purely a PvE-oriented class. I'm not going to post that exact statement in the guide until I can do some more extensive testing, but as it stands we just seem to be completely outclassed in warzones. The Engineer spec, especially, has quite a hard time, considering that AoE damage is good for getting medals but not much else. Yes, Snipers can dish out damage. I have seen many Snipers appear in the top 3 damage slots many times. The issue is that damage alone doesn't win warzones, but damage alone is all we're capable of. While other classes can heal, jump between platforms, and pull/push their enemies around (while still managing to dish out as much damage as us...), we are stuck in the background taking pot-shots at stragglers.

 

However, in PvE environments the Sniper seems to be an exceptionally powerful class. I find myself contributing greatly to any team I'm on, and am able to solo content other classes seem to have trouble with. Even open-world PvP isn't an issue, because it all really comes down to damage with a bit of strategy. It's just when it comes to warzones that we seem to be completely gimped.

 

Sniper is only my alt at 20 now but from what I've seen if you don't like MM, Lethality is the way to go. Have you investigated that tree yet?

[Karaokelove]

Sniper is only my alt at 20 now but from what I've seen if you don't like MM, Lethality is the way to go. Have you investigated that tree yet?

 

Not yet, but I've been hearing mixed things about it. Some people swear by it for pvp, but others claim that any decent player can get around the effects. All I will say is that your build is going to have very little affect on the fundamental problems of the Sniper in pvp, which are versatility and maneuverability. And by "maneuverability" I don't simply mean a reliance on Cover, but the complete inability to efficiently navigate a warzone map at acceptable speeds (which is really a problem more specific to Huttball than anything else, but it's a HUGE deal in Huttball...). No matter what you're going to get in your damage, but that's just not a good measurement of your usefulness to your team.

[Vapesk]

I'm just glad sniper at least get a knock-back, not sure if Ops ever do but I didn't have one at 39. Snipers at least can sit on a ledge in huttball without giving enemy juggs someone to jump to, and knock back with cover pulse.

 

Naturally on my sniper I pass the ball a lot more than on my jugg. Being able to knock people off ledges is nice, kind of a pain to have to drop into cover to do it though, but oh well. I pick off ball carriers pretty well then toss it to someone that'll live more than 5 seconds. Works out all right.

[Karaokelove]

I find the knock-back from Cover Pulse to be quite unreliable. There have been times where there is no question about the direction the enemy should have been knocked back, but for some reason they flew off to the side instead of straight ahead. When it works, it's great, but it's a shame it doesn't seem to work every time.

[Easelman]

wow lots of Debbie-Downers in here. I must be playing a different game but K-love isn't feeling the love anymore.

 

-Did you just hit 50 and going against others with massive expertise?

 

My one and only gripe with the sniper is how I F'in look. I play two characters (just started an alt).. My lethal/eng hybrid sniper who I adore and I went with the ultra-defensive operative that can heal and stealth. My goal on the operative is 0 deaths in a warzone, but hes only lvl 17 atm.

 

My problem is I cant do the operative storyline after I did the sniper and in fact the entire pve solo content is Boring and I just can't handle another npc's problem. So I'm doing group flashpoints and pvp until another game comes along. But I'm usually a 3-4 hour a night gamer and 15 pvp warzones is just a bit much everynight.

 

I think the only thing that would save me is a guild cordinated warzone on ventrillo and I'm on the server slug.

[Belgaram]

I find the knock-back from Cover Pulse to be quite unreliable. There have been times where there is no question about the direction the enemy should have been knocked back, but for some reason they flew off to the side instead of straight ahead. When it works, it's great, but it's a shame it doesn't seem to work every time.

 

Totally agree... I have used cover pulse when enemies were headed at me down the ramp toward the end zone and thinking I would blast them back into the fire or off of the ledge, I instead blasted them into the end-zone FML... And they were in front of me with my back towards the end zone. That was embarrassing! But proves your point

[AchieveSerenity]

While I think there are a lot of technical issues with the sniper, which become most apparent in PvP play and stem mostly from the drastically different play style of snipers, I don't think it's time to write them off just yet. Frankly the reason so many people swear by Lethality is because it makes less use of the currently, and I stress currently, less than perfect mechanics of the sniper class, primarily the cover system. However, when Bioware decides to fix cover, and I am confident they will, I think snipers will be able to realize their full potential.

 

However, all that being said, I think many of the problems people have with the sniper class also stem from how they attempt to play their build; be it MM or Eng. Frankly, most people go into the sniper with the lone wolf mentality i.e. "I can go in, pump out insane DPS, and not need too much backup from my team". So far only Lethality snipers can have consistent success with this play style. What if, instead MM and Eng snipers oriented their play style in a more team based mentality?

 

First, the MM sniper: high single target damage, but low maneuverability while delivering damage, and at a significant disadvantage when facing multiple targets and/or targets in melee. One approach to these weaknesses, which will all but inevitably present themselves to an MM sniper in a given match, would be a) to prioritize targets, much like a real sniper, and focus less on doing lots of damage and more on doing "more valuable" damage. Take up a strategic position, preferably hard to reach, and focus on weakening the other team's ability to win the main fight by drawing resources away or targeting their MVPs. Consider employing a "spotter" to help defend you at close range and if you're doing a good job pestering the enemy you team won't begrudge you the support.

 

Second, the Eng sniper: slow downs and AoEs with additional defensive abilities, but long damage realization times and localized damage. Meaning, enemies rudely move out of the blast zone before you're done dealing damage. I would suggest trying a more logistical support role as an Eng sniper. Stay with a healer and when enemies come at you you can use your defensive skills (our "limited" and varied CC abilities come in hand in these situations) to keep them at bay, as well as AoEs target on or around your self-made "bunker".

 

True these play styles are a little more self sacrificial than some might care for and, in the case of the MM, less visible in the over all battle, but, realistically, isn't that what a real sniper does anyway? Rather than getting the most kills or the most damage you get the best kills or prevent the most damage to your own team and it's better if people aren't super aware that you're there at all. I cannot count the number of snipers whose major complaint is that, for a DPS class, they don't rank much higher in overall damage than other players, and I can't help but think that is because they're approaching the class wrong. I'm Eng spec right now and I've been using my own logistical support approach and let me tell you that healers are very grateful when your orbital strikes and plasma probes send aggressors running for cover.

[Xtrema]

Well I'm starting to come to the conclusion that the Sniper is purely a PvE-oriented class. I'm not going to post that exact statement in the guide until I can do some more extensive testing, but as it stands we just seem to be completely outclassed in warzones. The Engineer spec, especially, has quite a hard time, considering that AoE damage is good for getting medals but not much else. Yes, Snipers can dish out damage. I have seen many Snipers appear in the top 3 damage slots many times. The issue is that damage alone doesn't win warzones, but damage alone is all we're capable of. While other classes can heal, jump between platforms, and pull/push their enemies around (while still managing to dish out as much damage as us...), we are stuck in the background taking pot-shots at stragglers.

 

However, in PvE environments the Sniper seems to be an exceptionally powerful class. I find myself contributing greatly to any team I'm on, and am able to solo content other classes seem to have trouble with. Even open-world PvP isn't an issue, because it all really comes down to damage with a bit of strategy. It's just when it comes to warzones that we seem to be completely gimped.

 

Though I completely agree about mobility, I have to disagree with being helpless in warzones. Take Huttball for example, I have a 42 jugg and a 20 sniper, my sniper wins way more warzones than my jugg, granted I'm not 50 for either character so just take it as perception of a not-yet-maxed sniper. It all comes down to vantage point, if you think about it the sniper should never be the one carrying the ball, jump between platforms etc, the name in itself suggests you should be at an advantageous spot covering your allies. And this is what I do in WZs, I find a spot near the action/huttball, setup camp and go to work! If I'm not using legshot to stop someone ontop of the environmental flames, or slowing down an assassin trying to catch my ally with a ball, I'm simply killing everyone around the ball carrier, I feel I'm contributing a TON more than my jugg at this point. Being useful doesn't always have to be about the objective, if I'm helping my allies achieve objectives I'm helping just as much (if not more).

 

Even at lvl20 I am averaging close to 20 killing blows per WZ (huttball), and typically top5-7 in damage. So even though I'm not carrying the ball itself, I feel I'm providing a hell of a lot of cover for my allies, they stay alive longer, and can win us WZs, just my thoughts

Edited January 27, 2012 by Xtrema

[hatemakerr]

Personally, I find my MM sniper generates a ton of threat. I've read a lot of the suggestions about how to improve the sniper, I for one think the sniper (shooting from long distance) should generate very little threat via PVE. I understand a lot of complains about PVP but, pve its a little silly.

[Karaokelove]

Hey guys, thanks for the awesome feedback on Sniper pvp viability. I still have a few qualms with the class as it relates to pvp, however:

 

1. "Interrupts" Target Cover

This should simply not be the case. You might as well call it the "Screw the Sniper" ability. No other class is as totally screwed by an interrupt as the Sniper when it negates his/her Cover for 4 seconds.

 

2. Mobility

Other classes that are able to dish out just as much damage as us also have the ability to travel around either faster or more efficiently. From temporary speed boosts, to flying up to platforms, to invisibility, the other classes seem to have an enormous advantage when it comes to maneuverability. Instead of giving us an ability to compete, we get stuck with the opposite: a reliance on a cumbersome cover system. I could see giving us such a drawback if we were able to dish out more damage than other classes, which is our single purpose. But no, Bioware has stated that all dps classes are within 5% damage output of one another, meaning we get saddled with an enormous disadvantage but no real strengths to back it up. On a related note, it's way too easy to knock a Sniper out of cover, considering it's the basis of our entire class...

 

3. Lack of Utility

Similar to the Mobility issue, other classes that do just as much damage as us also have access to other abilities that greatly enhance their pvp utility beyond mere dps. From heals, to crowd control, to the ability to wear heavy armor, it seems that every other class has some other skill to fall back on. Again, it would be different if we either did more damage than the other classes or also had some extra utility ability to fall back on, but no, we get the opposite, a reliance on Cover.

 

4. Cover-Based Abilities are Useless

It is so easy to knock us out of cover that we might as well not even have prolonged cover-based abilities. I can't remember the last time my Ballistic Shield lasted longer than 5 seconds in a pvp match. Even Entrench, which is our anti-cc ability, is negated when we are knocked out of cover... If our entire class is going to be based around the cover system, it shouldn't be nearly as easy as it currently is to just knock us out of it. It would almost be acceptable if the cooldowns on those abilities were reset when we were knocked out of cover, but as it stands I might get 5 seconds of Ballistic Shield before I have to wait over 2 minutes to use it again.

 

Well those are my current gripes with the class. I'm sure I will think of more, or better ways to express those listed above. As always, thanks for reading!

 

-Woody

Edited January 28, 2012 by Karaokelove

[Xtrema]

While I don't disagree with you on those points, don't you think you're comparing to other classes a bit too much and not looking at the sniper class itself? By definition, a sniper doesn't fly around the field, snipers by definition have to be patient and wait for their shot. If a sniper's cover is blown and a warrior comes flying in, you can't really expect to win a CQC fight do you? But if you find a warrior that has no idea you're there, you take a few shots and dead (IRL it's probably 1 shot, but this is a game). It goes both ways, this is the nature of our class and it's how BW built it.

 

As for not being able to dish out as much damage, I can't really speak to this as I'm only a 30 sniper, but at my level and in the 1-49 bracket I would have to disagree entirely. My burst damage has been amazing to say the least, and I can compare since I have a 45 rage jugg as well and he can't kill NEARLY as fast as if my sniper sets up and goes through rotation with laze and trinket. I take down people in seconds before they even have a chance to run or react. Yes, you can't keep up with assassins when they run away, but again you're not supposed to. Ideally a sniper would wait for the assassin to get into a specific zone unsuspectedly and you drop them before they have a clue.

 

Snipers have to be patient and are definitely not in-the-fray characters. I have one of each so I can get my fill of both sides when needed lol. If you keep comparing to other classes too much you'll never be happy with any character, we have our strengths and weaknesses and so do they, we just have to capitalize on ours

Edited January 31, 2012 by Xtrema

[Karaokelove]

Thanks for the input, Xtrema. I do have to say that I disagree on a few of your points, however. It's not even that they're wrong, it's just that they miss the point of my previous arguments. For instance, when I'm comparing classes, I'm only comparing like-classes, such as pure dps. As such, you really can't compare a dps Sniper to a tanking Jugg because they are just 2 completely different things. Of course a Sniper is going to out-dps a Jugg, because that's not what a Jugg is designed to do. However, when a Sniper gets out-dps'd by a Sorcerer who can heal and turn invisible, or by a Bounty Hunter who can heal and fly around the map, things start to feel pretty unfair. And it would be one thing if we were just pure dps without any of those extra features, but instead we actually get stuck with an extra weakness.

 

As far as playing a Sniper like an actual sniper, well that went out the window as soon as they gave us a 35m maximum range and a bright red flashing shield. Like others have said, if we had some sort of cover-based Camo ability, maybe then you could play like an actual sniper. But until then, that's just wishful thinking.

[Xtrema]

Thanks for the input, Xtrema. I do have to say that I disagree on a few of your points, however. It's not even that they're wrong, it's just that they miss the point of my previous arguments. For instance, when I'm comparing classes, I'm only comparing like-classes, such as pure dps. As such, you really can't compare a dps Sniper to a tanking Jugg because they are just 2 completely different things. Of course a Sniper is going to out-dps a Jugg, because that's not what a Jugg is designed to do. However, when a Sniper gets out-dps'd by a Sorcerer who can heal and turn invisible, or by a Bounty Hunter who can heal and fly around the map, things start to feel pretty unfair. And it would be one thing if we were just pure dps without any of those extra features, but instead we actually get stuck with an extra weakness.

 

As far as playing a Sniper like an actual sniper, well that went out the window as soon as they gave us a 35m maximum range and a bright red flashing shield. Like others have said, if we had some sort of cover-based Camo ability, maybe then you could play like an actual sniper. But until then, that's just wishful thinking.

 

Yea I see what you're saying, guess I misunderstood you a bit. Like I said I'm not disagreeing, just trying to find the little bright spot lol

 

How is the burst dmg up at 50 though? I feel like that's one of our few advantages. So far in my 1-49 experience, in a strict 1v1 vs those classes, assuming the sorc doesnt cop out into invis, the cover, entrench, trinket/laze and a few shots will bring them significantly down if not kill them before they do the same amount of dmg back to us right? In those first few seconds we out dps them by far, at least from what I've seen in the lower levels. Although it's pretty disheartening to see a shot come up with the word 'absorbed' instead of damage dealt...

Edited February 1, 2012 by Xtrema

[Karaokelove]

Well since I play an Engineer spec, my only real burst damage comes from the Ambush+Explosive Probe+Cluster Bombs combo. SoS does nice damage with Electrified Railgun, but it just never seems to be enough. My experience is typically nailing someone for a nice chunk of damage before getting knocked out of cover, stunned, and murdered... Edited February 1, 2012 by Karaokelove

[Infalliable]

...However, when a Sniper gets out-dps'd by a Sorcerer who can heal and turn invisible, or by a Bounty Hunter who can heal and fly around the map, things start to feel pretty unfair....

 

I think you're conflating sorcs and assasin specific powers

Edited February 1, 2012 by Infalliable

[Karaokelove]

Ha, yes, my mistake. I was trying to get the post in real quick before I had to go, and it didn't even occur to me that that was the case. The Sorcerer is still able to dish out as much damage as us while also healing and having access to massive CC. It simply can't be considered fair when 2 different classes each do, say, 150k damage in a warzone, but where 1 can heal and CC and run around while dealing damage, the other one is stuck hunkered down in 1 spot, and is at a severe disadvantage if he gets knocked out of cover or has to move from his stationary location.

 

Anyway, I'm spending so much time defending these views that I feel like all I've been doing lately is trash-talking the Sniper. I just want to clarify that I love the class and that with a few minor adjustments (and maybe 1 or 2 major adjustments...) it will be competitive with other classes in PvP. As it stands, where other dps classes gain extra strengths, we gain nothing but a hindrance to our playability, and that is my primary concern with the class. Our damage output is fine, and our survivability is fine. It's our warzone utility and complete reliance on the unpolished cover mechanic that really sets the class back.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Karaokelove