The Sniper's Handbook

[AchieveSerenity]

I was looking at what you said about the instant cast snipes and cooldown reduction skills, and I have you agree with your energy conservation analysis for the most part. The exception I think is with Stroke of Genius. Because Stroke is tied to the use of Cover Pulse, I think the instant activation Snipe is an "oh ****" fallback you want when some melee NPC is in your face forcing you to activate Cover Pulse. Theoretically you'd be taking melee damage and probably would want to activate Adrenaline Probe anyway. So, if you've been managing your energy well, then you have around 40-60+ energy anyway with another 50-100 on its way from Adrenaline Probe (x2 uses if you're really in trouble) and you won't exactly miss that 20 energy insta-Snipe. I just switched it out with Inventive Interrogation Techniques since that's basically a PvP ability anyway.

 

Otherwise, great guide with lots of helpful stuff. I hope they don't nerf Biochem too soon

[Karaokelove]

@AchieveSerenity Those are some very good points. They definitely made me take another look at Stroke of Genius as a viable alternative to Inventive Interrogation Technique. I think you're right, that Stroke of Genius might be a better PvE skill, whereas Inventive Interrogation Techniques is a pretty strong PvP contender. I'll take a look at the guide to see how I might be able to add that information in. Thanks for your contribution!

[Xtrema]

Hmm, I wasn't aware of that. If that's the case, I'll definitely edit my post, but I was under the impression that once created, they were yours to do with as you please. I know most have level requirements, but I didn't think any usable in the game was based on crew skill.

 

Confirmed the above, friend tried to hand me a simple reusable but it has a requirement of Biochem(1). That's pretty lame

 

I might have missed this, you have a section on the secondary attributes, but which one should I be concentrating on if I went marksmen? Surge and Crit?

[Easelman]

This is what I find interesting.

 

Lethal and Engineering get all of the damaging sniper abilities except for Followthrough (which is a great one)

 

Marksman tree doesn't add much damage to the existing abilities. When I say "much" I mean.

 

-Steady Shot +6% damage for cull, series and snipe (but its on the first tier and easy for an engineer or lethal build to get)

 

- +30% critical damage with Imperial Assassin (Takedown, series and followthrough) skill (for 30 points in MM!)

 

But other than that, you gain some anti-cooldown stuff and situational knockbacks or something but you're damage output is not very much different unless you crit on 3 abilities.

 

Why would someone choose Marksman?

 

- You can set up marksman in a push 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and sometimes button 6 or 7 and be quite effective. I quit marksman because it was quite boring.

 

back to work...

[Merroc]

Don't know if it has been said, but regarding rotations.

 

You say frag grenade has 1600 dps per enemy affected. However, since GCD is 1.5 second, you could say its 1600/1.5, else you should do 1600/0, as it's instant.

 

The same goes for energy regen, as the GCD is 1.5 second, you regen 1.5 sec worth of energy after using frag 'nade (or any instant skill), resulting in 4.5~7.5 energy regen during the GCD.

 

It's not a big deal, your examples are still valid, but just to be mathematically correct .

[Mervent]

Mr. Love,

 

May I call you Mr. Love?

 

 

 

I was thinking about this comment and thinking what is the backbone of the hybrid build and when do i use cover.

 

Its funny because in pve, usually they will have a mix of melee and ranged, so I charge the ranged so the melee follows me then just drop AOE bombs on our location and if theres an elite then focus the cull and probe on them.

 

when you can spam an aoe knockdown that is doing 1k damage crits on a normal basis, you dont get hit much. pve this build is amazing, less so with individual pvp because of the burst damage of the marksman tree but I believe you will actually be the most hated player to play against.

 

Imagine someone spamming two -30% run speed bombs, one thats 18 seconds and one AOE that is 6 seconds. Not to mention do your dibilitate and get an extra 30% run speed. How do you think melee fighters (under 10m guys) feel about fighting against you.

 

My experience in pvp is that you can drop 4 AOE or dots on the battlefield so everyone is injured for the markmen to take out.

 

You have 3 get-aways also

 

Coverpulse works well with the slows or could be combined with legshot

Flashgrenade which doesnt work with the dots

debilitate (with a fast reg and run speed boost)

 

Now all you want to do is get to that 30m range and drop more slows on them.

 

On a side note, I have cybertech with additional grenades

 

Do you know how frustrating it is when some melee guy (who always charge guys with long rifles) is running at you at -60% run speed and feel like a sitting duck, then they finnally get to you and you've stacked your dots, you dibilitate and run away at +30 run speed.

 

expect a few tells because everything they learned to fight a markmen is turned on its head.

 

Now one last thing... I wear a medium armor dress (sith-like) on my type 4 fat frame which is confusing to the attacker.

 

A guy in a dress, tossing bombs is the sniper...pure fun.

 

Just wanted to thank you for sharing this info. Based on this post, I'm seriously thinking about going imperial and going the sniper route. If I missed it, I apologize, but do you have build that you could link? Thanks.

 

*** Edit ***

And I did miss it. For anyone else here is the post with the link to the build

 

The problem with both guides and why I found myself disagreeing with skills for both website builds is that they seem to be tunnel visioned on marksman tree or single dps.

 

I can't disagree with the great abilities of the marksman but all skills seem to be based on that. Now I know the OP is speced at engineer and he's saying its also a single dps machine as well as some aoe.

 

Don' troll me because I think this is a great guide that took a lot of time and simply unfinished and I could talk about builds all day. So to put my hand in the fire and get angry feedback, let me tell you what im rolling.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#400bZruMboRbZGbMkrbhz.1

 

A couple of key things. This is my mobile bombardier class (A hybrid). One of my main abilities is Frag grenade and the engineers toolbelt (which is one of my problems with the OP build)

 

Frag grenade is one of my bread and butter abilities which replaces SNIPE. Here's why-

- Nearly spammable instant attack, totally mobile

- +8% damage with targeted demolitions

- +30% critical damage with experimental explosion

- +6% crit lethality

- knockdown for PVE

- Large AOE for players, bindpoints

 

My build is based on Frag, corrosive grenade, interagation probe and toxic dart mixed with Cull.

 

My guess is that single target, i do less damage than a marksmen and especially burst damage BUT this build is meant to move and stay at the 30 m range popping in to drop dots and keeping your distance.

 

Its easy to drop your dots, cull and then take off with them having -60% run speed snare on them with the bombs.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Mervent

[Karaokelove]

Don't know if it has been said, but regarding rotations.

 

You say frag grenade has 1600 dps per enemy affected. However, since GCD is 1.5 second, you could say its 1600/1.5, else you should do 1600/0, as it's instant.

 

The same goes for energy regen, as the GCD is 1.5 second, you regen 1.5 sec worth of energy after using frag 'nade (or any instant skill), resulting in 4.5~7.5 energy regen during the GCD.

 

It's not a big deal, your examples are still valid, but just to be mathematically correct .

 

I'm not quite sure what you mean. Frag Grenade is instant, so the GCD doesn't come into effect until after the ability has been used and the damage has been done. With its minimum cooldown of 3 seconds (speced), the GCD literally has no effect on the damage output of Frag Grenade. I apologize if I misunderstood what you were going for.

[macumba]

I'm just not a fan of the insta-Snipe abilities, as you lose your energy regen time during the charge.

 

I am a huge fan of this even in pve because it will take the pain from having to move in encounters.

 

so when you're on top with your energy regen and you have to move, the 1.5 seconds you "waste" moving are given back to you by the insta snipe. I would not use that ability aggressively though (standing up and taking cover to trigger the insta-snipe on purpose)

[Merroc]

I'm not quite sure what you mean. Frag Grenade is instant, so the GCD doesn't come into effect until after the ability has been used and the damage has been done. With its minimum cooldown of 3 seconds (speced), the GCD literally has no effect on the damage output of Frag Grenade. I apologize if I misunderstood what you were going for.

 

What I'm saying is, that after you cast frag grenade, you can't do anything for 1.5 seconds, so even if it's instant, you can only do 1600 damage in that 1.5 seconds. Giving it a theoretical dps of 1600/1.5, since you can't do more damage. In practice of course, it does the whole 1600 damage right away.

 

In the same way, why would you divide by 1 (1600/1 = 1600 dps) when it's instant, and thus only requires 0 seconds to cast giving it a dps of 1600/0 (or 1600/lim->0 if you want to be precise). It would be more logical to divide by 1.5.

 

Same goes for the energy regeneration, casting frag grenade causes 1.5 seconds in which you can't do anything (apart from off GCD casts of course), in that 1.5 seconds, your energy does regenerate.

 

I hope this makes it clearer, it was late when I typed the other bit.

[Dwogger]

1. I know that the cover system is a little bit bugged, but I still have a question. What for are there 2 practically same abilities?? How does it all work? I have Crouch, Take Cover, the binding Cover (key F) and Cover in place (Shift+F). Are they really 4 same abilities??

Could any1 explain which one to use? Which is the "best"?

2. And one more: do I still get a 20% defence from ranged if I roll behind the box or other objects? Am I right, that the only difference between the object and red cover screen is the visual one (no screen behind the object)? But 20% bonus from ranged is the same, the same amount of blasters hit the cover when I don't cast any Snipe, Ambush...., right?

[Vyrzeden]

This is what I find interesting.

 

Lethal and Engineering get all of the damaging sniper abilities except for Followthrough (which is a great one)

 

Marksman tree doesn't add much damage to the existing abilities. When I say "much" I mean.

 

-Steady Shot +6% damage for cull, series and snipe (but its on the first tier and easy for an engineer or lethal build to get)

 

- +30% critical damage with Imperial Assassin (Takedown, series and followthrough) skill (for 30 points in MM!)

 

But other than that, you gain some anti-cooldown stuff and situational knockbacks or something but you're damage output is not very much different unless you crit on 3 abilities.

 

Why would someone choose Marksman?

 

- You can set up marksman in a push 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and sometimes button 6 or 7 and be quite effective. I quit marksman because it was quite boring.

 

back to work...

 

Everyone has their own playstyle, but Marks deserves a it more credit than this. In addition to what you mentioned:

 

- 20% armor ignore on ambush is nothing to sneeze at.

- 1.5 vs 2.5 ambush is huge.

- Sniper Nest is one of the best energy regen talents. More consistent energy means you can sit in the 60+ range easier which means more DPS moves.

 

I will say I'm not a fan of sniper volley, specifically the mechanic of it (my rotation doesn't keep it rolling consistently enough). I also think the returns on the last 6 points (IA and RF) are better spent elsewhere. Here is what I am running right now:

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#400rcrbdRoRZrI0bRoZb.1

 

- Gets Marks best ability, Followthrough, with its upgrade.

- 1.5 second ambush on Snipe and SoS crits (and SoS is far more important than snipe for this).

- Defense in BD and CS.

- Excellent energy regen from Sniper's Nest.

- Diversion is a great 9 second survival tool.

- 2 second cast time on Orbital Strike.

 

I trade IA and RF for the some REALLY nice talents in Eng

 

- 15% increased damage Explosive Probe that costs 1 energy after the cluster bombs go off. This is hands down our best DPE abiltity.

- Interrogation Probe (hits hard and is energy damage).

 

This gives me more than enough abilities for my rotation and plenty of cooldowns to manage.

[Karaokelove]

What I'm saying is, that after you cast frag grenade, you can't do anything for 1.5 seconds, so even if it's instant, you can only do 1600 damage in that 1.5 seconds. Giving it a theoretical dps of 1600/1.5, since you can't do more damage. In practice of course, it does the whole 1600 damage right away.

 

In the same way, why would you divide by 1 (1600/1 = 1600 dps) when it's instant, and thus only requires 0 seconds to cast giving it a dps of 1600/0 (or 1600/lim->0 if you want to be precise). It would be more logical to divide by 1.5.

 

Same goes for the energy regeneration, casting frag grenade causes 1.5 seconds in which you can't do anything (apart from off GCD casts of course), in that 1.5 seconds, your energy does regenerate.

 

I hope this makes it clearer, it was late when I typed the other bit.

 

I'm no math expert, but since all combat abilities are based around the GCD, wouldn't that cancel out any effects it would have on a single ability? i.e. since all abilities are going to have that 1.5-second cooldown, why even take it into consideration for a specific ability, instead of just factoring it out? That's where I'm getting confused.

[Karaokelove]

1. I know that the cover system is a little bit bugged, but I still have a question. What for are there 2 practically same abilities?? How does it all work? I have Crouch, Take Cover, the binding Cover (key F) and Cover in place (Shift+F). Are they really 4 same abilities??

Could any1 explain which one to use? Which is the "best"?

2. And one more: do I still get a 20% defence from ranged if I roll behind the box or other objects? Am I right, that the only difference between the object and red cover screen is the visual one (no screen behind the object)? But 20% bonus from ranged is the same, the same amount of blasters hit the cover when I don't cast any Snipe, Ambush...., right?

 

Good questions, Dwogger. Here are your answers:

 

There are basically only 2 Cover abilities: Crouch in Place, and Take Cover.

 

Take Cover is the one where you roll behind a physical object. This provides you with a 20% bonus to your ranged defense against any enemy within an invisible 45-degree cone in front of you. It also allows you to stay ducked behind the physical cover in order to completely ignore the enemy's basic ranged attacks.

 

Crouch in Place is the one where you...(wait for it)...crouch in place. Initially this yields no bonus, other than granting access to your cover-based abilities. However, once you hit level 10 your character will start deploying an energy shield whenever you crouch in place. This grants the 20% bonus to ranged defense, but not the basic attack immunity.

 

By default, the "F" hotkey causes you to use your Take Cover ability. Shift+F causes you to use Crouch in Place.

 

You can find a slightly more detailed explanation in the "Cover" chapter of the Sniper's Handbook, along with some handy tips and tricks. Hope that answers all of your questions!

Edited January 11, 2012 by Karaokelove

[Easelman]

Vyrzeden,

 

This makes you a Marksmaneer while I am a Lethaleer or am I a Enginality?

 

Wait you might be an Engineership...This is getting confusing.

[Easelman]

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#40...RoRZrI0bRoZb.1

 

- Gets Marks best ability, Followthrough, with its upgrade.

- 1.5 second ambush on Snipe and SoS crits (and SoS is far more important than snipe for this).

- Defense in BD and CS.

- Excellent energy regen from Sniper's Nest.

- Diversion is a great 9 second survival tool.

- 2 second cast time on Orbital Strike.

 

OK, I see your abilities and raise you these:

 

- Frag, Corrosive grenade +23% damage, +30% crit damage (not to mention orbital strike +15/+30)

 

- +12% damage on Cull and series of shots (I am unsure if Lethal Dose effects these)

 

- Corrosive grenade, poison dart, Interrogation probe get +18% crit chance (+25%+ more damage with the dart with Corrosive microbes and Lethal injectors)

 

- 2 (-30% snares with two dots) Who wants to be -60% run speed with two big dots?

 

Ok so a lvl 50 has about 15000 life? Here are 3 instant casts...

- 2600 IP @ 60ish crit chance = 2600 damage + 780 crit damage = 3380

- 2500 CD @ 60 crit chance/25% double tick and +3 sec = 5000

- 1700 IP + crits of 1100(45% crit chance +30 crit damage = 2800

 

Total: 11,180

 

Now, This was basically done in my head at work and with a base 40-50% crit rating that a lvl 50 agent can get. I am 100% sure these numbers are not 100% correct.

 

Whats next?

 

Explosive probe 6100 damage+ 15% (915) = 7kish + cluster bombs (400) = 7400

 

Then Cull

 

Now this isn't scientific, no thought about armor, although these dots ingore a lot of it...

[Vyrzeden]

That's 0/18/23 Eng/Leth I think, or close to it.

 

I like it, it was one of the first hybrid builds I considered, but Fentanyl pointed out that it is murder on energy. If we ever get dual-spec I want to use a Lethality heavy build for my main PvP spec. I'm torn on Weakening Blast as it goes REALLY well with the rest of the tree (Dart, Grenade, Blast, then Cull for BIG damage).

 

At least hybrid builds do work, and I think more fun to come up with.

Edited January 11, 2012 by Vyrzeden

[Merroc]

I'm no math expert, but since all combat abilities are based around the GCD, wouldn't that cancel out any effects it would have on a single ability? i.e. since all abilities are going to have that 1.5-second cooldown, why even take it into consideration for a specific ability, instead of just factoring it out? That's where I'm getting confused.

 

That could very well be, I'm not 100% sure of myself either...

 

But that 1.5 sec GCD is included in the 1.5/2.5 sec snipe/ambush cast (or any cast), so it is "ignored". It is not included for instant casts.

 

Another way to put it, if you calculate the dps of any rotation, lets take a simple one:

 

snipe (5000 dmg), grenade (1600 dmg), ambush (7500 dmg, to take your numbers).

Your math:

1.5 sec snipe: 5000/1.5 = 3333.33 dps

instant grenade: 1600/1 = 1600 dps

2.5 sec ambush: 7500/2.5 = 2500 dps

sum: 4333.33 dps

 

My math:

1.5 sec snipe: 5000

grenade: 1600

1.5 sec wait on GCD

2.5 sec ambush: 7500

Total damage: 14100, total time: 5.5 sec: 2563.63 dps

 

Now I realize this is far from any optimal rotation, but it's just to prove a point.

 

Edit: something else, for the 2/18/21 build, if it eats too much energy, why not change the 2 points from MM to Lethal Purpose. 2 energy back on every poison crit sounds like a lot, with critrates of 50% and up (especially with lethal dose).

Edited January 11, 2012 by Merroc

[Easelman]

http://http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#400bZruMboRbZGbbkrbhz.1

 

The build I use is pretty energy efficient with the tanks of +10 and the +15 energy from Imperial Methodology.

 

Do I run out of energy, sure when I try to dot everyone but I wouldn't say energy is that bad, but you make a great point of taking -6% damage in snipe, cull and SoS for the extra energy and probe, especially if you take Vital Regulators and the +6% heal.

 

I find this build is best for guerrilla warfare. Break LOS in combat, stay moving, keep your distant (the difference of an operative lethal and a sniper lethal build). In pve, use a corner, drop your 3 dots, run around the corner (remember they will be running at -60%) and once they are around the corner, flash grenade them and run back around, let them chase you.

 

Melee elites are amazingly easy for this build, i mean, you end up with full health and energy. Kite them which not many people do. dot them, let them run to you, when they get there, CC them with flash or dibilitate, run the other way, dot them and they might get one hit on you every 7 seconds.

 

Ranged elites, use hard cover.... again, I think this build has a hard time with multiple strongs... but 15 normal mobs I can kill or an elite 3 lvls higher than me is easy. Trying to dot 4 or 5 strongs is a lot of energy and you cant knock them down.

[AchieveSerenity]

In the same way, why would you divide by 1 (1600/1 = 1600 dps) when it's instant, and thus only requires 0 seconds to cast giving it a dps of 1600/0 (or 1600/lim->0 if you want to be precise). It would be more logical to divide by 1.5.

 

All I have to say is thank you for not dividing by zero, but its lim (x->0) 1600/x (to be quite precise )

[Fentanyl]

Explosive probe 6100 damage+ 15% (915) = 7kish + cluster bombs (400) = 7400

 

I'm sorry, but Explosive Probe never -- and I do mean never under any circumstances -- reaches that level of damage.

 

The most I've ever seen Probe hit for on any Sniper build is about 3000 damage. On a crit.

 

If you're trying to use TORhead numbers to predict your damage at 50 you are going to be sadly disappointed in some instances.

Edited January 11, 2012 by Fentanyl

[Merroc]

All I have to say is thank you for not dividing by zero, but its lim (x->0) 1600/x (to be quite precise )

 

Hehe, a bit rusty here on limits and such, but you got the idea .

[Easelman]

All these numbers I got from Tor for reference of lvl 50. I'm only level level 42 atm.

[Fentanyl]

All these numbers I got from Tor for reference of lvl 50. I'm only level level 42 atm.

 

Yeah ... don't do it. Construct your builds based on ingame damage and experience only. Some of TORhead's numbers are still fantastically inaccurate for a level 50 Sniper.

[Die_Scream]

Impressive p[ost and very well written. The section on your keybinds is particularly interesting to me right now. I never had thought of some of your solutions.

 

Thanks, great work.

[Vyrzeden]

Easelman,

 

If you are looking for numbers, check out the spreadsheet in the sithwarrior.com sniper thread. It focuses on MM currently, but I have no doubt it will be expanded at some point. It is closer to what you will see in game and you can even plug in your own numbers and play with hypothetical rotations. Not perfect, but better than torhead numbers.

Edited January 12, 2012 by Vyrzeden