The ANTI LFD and LFR tool thread!

[LeMartin]

Having to idle on a space station to find a group is just annoying, give us a global lfg channel and everything is fine. When I've to choose between idling and questing I choose questing, that's why I've only seen one FP from the inside while leveling and that's a shame.

[blubomber]

WoW did not stop gaining subs until Cata. Up until then it was at a constant gain in subs. TBC was not its highest point either, it was WotLK at 12.5 - 13 million players.

 

Either way, youre argument is a fallacy. Unless you have actual logical proof that A caused B youre just pointing out two things that happened to have happened at the same time or close to each other. What youre doing now is like saying "Mammoth mounts came out during the time when WoW started dropping subs ... obviously Mammoth mounts ruined WOW."

 

This person is completely correct. Wrath was the most popular time for wow (All you people saying BC was the best are looking through nostalgia. I loved BC as well, but it was not the highest subbed time by FAR) It was also had the highest completion of raids and heroics up until that point. This is no coincidence that it is also the time the LFD was fleshed out.

 

I quit wow and do not enjoy it anymore. I feel its become stagnant content wise. I know alot of people agree that they just simply dont find the game fun anymore.

 

This was absolutely in no way because i was actually able to find a group to do the available content. It is purely a comment on the content itself.

[Khoranth]

Actually BC did have a LFG tool, it was the first time WoW had a LFG tool and before that people had to use a zone wide LFG channel. And as for your claim that the release of the updated LFG tool in patch 3.3 has been the cause of the drop in subs do you actually have anything to back that up? What proof do you have that it was the updated tool that caused people to leave and not one of a multitude of other reasons? Perhaps subs have been dropping because people have become worn out after 5-6 years of WoW? Or didn't like the new content? Or found a new game/past-time that meant they no longer had the same sort of time to dedicate to WoW?

 

WOW once again you totally ignore my post and adress something completely different.

Now read this again and tell me if you see the term LFG tool.

 

here i'll repeat myself, would you like to adresss the main point?

 

that WoW gained subs during BC, when there was no LFD LFR or EZmode content. And ever since the release of LFD WoW has been slowly ( or recently not so slowly) losing subs.

 

Or do you want to ignore the facts and provide us with some more useless anecdotal evidence?

[Khoranth]

Really, the fact? The real fact is that the LFG tool came out in patch 2.0 a.k.a. the buring crusade. For your reference: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/patch-notes/2-0

 

So according to your own words, wow gained most of its popularity and subs during BC, then LFG tool must have been a reason for that. Is this direct enough for you? A LFG tool will not harm the game but make it stronger and increase its popularity.

 

If you want to have an argument over a possible LFG tool, create a thread about it. THis thread is discussing LFD and LFR.

 

Now please read my post again, then respond to my post, if you want. You response made no sense. the term LFG tool is not in my post.

 

 

here i'll repeat myself, would you like to adresss the actual point?

 

that WoW gained subs during BC, when there was no LFD LFR or EZmode content. And ever since the release of LFD WoW has been slowly ( or recently not so slowly) losing subs.

 

Or do you want to ignore the facts and provide us with some more useless anecdotal evidence?

[blubomber]

WOW once again you totally ignore my post and adress something completely different.

Now read this again and tell me if you see the term LFG tool.

 

here i'll repeat myself, would you like to adresss the main point?

 

that WoW gained subs during BC, when there was no LFD LFR or EZmode content. And ever since the release of LFD WoW has been slowly ( or recently not so slowly) losing subs.

 

Or do you want to ignore the facts and provide us with some more useless anecdotal evidence?

 

WoW continued to gain subs completely through wrath and into cata. It lost subs mainly because of asia and the loss of china as a whole.

 

You are saying that the LFD caused the cata sub decline, a point you have nothing to back it up.

[Khoranth]

This person is completely correct. Wrath was the most popular time for wow (All you people saying BC was the best are looking through nostalgia. I loved BC as well, but it was not the highest subbed time by FAR) It was also had the highest completion of raids and heroics up until that point. This is no coincidence that it is also the time the LFD was fleshed out.

 

I quit wow and do not enjoy it anymore. I feel its become stagnant content wise. I know alot of people agree that they just simply dont find the game fun anymore.

 

This was absolutely in no way because i was actually able to find a group to do the available content. It is purely a comment on the content itself.

 

in BC WoW gained 8-9 million subs, during the EU/US wotlk, WoW gained 3-4 million subs, most of those subs were from China, and CHina was still in BC, wotlk just got released in CHina, and not coincidently WoW has lost millions os subs recently.

 

Would you like to try again? The facts are obvious, BC is when WoW gained the highest amount of Subs, and BC had no LFD, no LFR no EZmode content.

[Khoranth]

WoW continued to gain subs completely through wrath and into cata. It lost subs mainly because of asia and the loss of china as a whole.

 

You are saying that the LFD caused the cata sub decline, a point you have nothing to back it up.

 

I did not say LFd caused the decline ( not exclusveily) i pointed out FACTS that WoW gained its most subs during BC, and has been on the decline since LFD was released.

 

Those are facts, you choose to ignore the effect China, and wotlk recently being released in China, has had on sub numbers

Edited January 5, 2012 by Khoranth

[Lothir]

I approve this message.

[Krazeh]

Or do you want to ignore the facts and provide us with some more useless anecdotal evidence?

 

How about you do the same? Where are your facts that the updated LFG tool has been the cause of the drop in WoW subs?

 

Also by your logic some form of LFG tool is a good thing as one was introduced to WoW when BC was released and subs went up. Therefore an LFG tool must increase subs and should be introduced for the good of the game.

 

I did not say LFd caused the decline ( not exclusveily) i pointed out FACTS that WoW gained its most subs during BC, and has been on the decline since LFD was released.

 

Those are facts, you choose to ignore the effect China, and wotlk recently being released in China, has had on sub numbers

 

Your 'facts' don't provide any link between the two events. All your doing is quoting two separate events without anything to demonstrate that one caused the other.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Krazeh

[madgnome]

I was an officer in a top 200 raiding guild, on a top 5 realm. I have my fair share of guild chat recollections that I can start listing, if you wish. I speak on behalf of people I know, people I trust, and also a little bit for myself. LFD creates a sense of anonymity in a persons psyche that can be directly linked with anti social behavior. It's a valid medical theory that has existed for many decades. It is the reason behind the exponential amount of ninja QQ threads, it is the reason behind the 5 man runs where not a single word is uttered, it is the reason questing zones are empty. There are plenty of lowbies in WoW, they just get slammed into the world of anti socialness and never come out from behind the door.

 

I was an officer in a top guild as well. Maybe your server was different somehow, but on my server and most of the others I can think of, we mostly grouped with guildies. If the need arose to group with someone else (say a trade pug), you figured out what guild they were from and if that guild was at least somewhat on par with yours then you would go. This is especially true of tanks and healers. It just happens, nobody in that case means to elitist about it. I’m pretty sure all guilds form opinions on other guilds, and judge the players of that guild as such. In several instances of using LFD I was fortunate enough to group with people from my server that were from guilds I never would have grouped with before. They were for the most part great people and didn’t stand in fire, even though they weren’t wearing Tier (insert high end number of xpac). I think I even got a few good recruits because of runs like that. LFD tools are far from perfect but there can be advantages. Keeping a LFD with a server would be nice, but all server populations probably couldn’t support this.

[Khoranth]

How about you do the same? Where are your facts that the updated LFG tool has been the cause of the drop in WoW subs?

 

Also by your logic some form of LFG tool is a good thing as one was introduced to WoW when BC was released and subs went up. Therefore an LFG tool must increase subs and should be introduced for the good of the game.

 

I have never ever discussed any LFG tool in this thread,e xcept to say that i have not used the term LFG tool.

 

Would you like to join us discuss the topic of this thread, LFD and LFR?

 

If you want to debate a LFG tool, go make a thread about, stop trying to derail

[Krazeh]

I have never ever discussed any LFG tool in this thread,e xcept to say that i have not used the term LFG tool.

 

Would you like to join us discuss the topic of this thread, LFD and LFR?

 

If you want to debate a LFG tool, go make a thread about, stop trying to derail

 

Fine, BC had LFD. It wasn't as advanced as the most current one but it was still there. Happy now i've used the same acronym?

[moosedog]

Posting in SUPPORT of an LFD and LFR tool, cross server or intra server. Only a matter of time, eventually it will be put in. My guess is 12-16 months.

[Khoranth]

Fine, BC had LFD. It wasn't as advanced as the most current one but it was still there. Happy now i've used the same acronym?

 

BC never had LFD, you are incorrect. BC had a LFG tool, an LFG tool is not remotely the same as the LFD tool.

 

There is just no way a reasonable human being can come to that conclusion. Yes they are both tools used for grouping, but they are not the same, at all.

 

I repeat, if you want to discuss an LFG tool, make a thread about it, LFD tool =/= LFg tool,

not even close

[LordAposno]

If you want to have an argument over a possible LFG tool, create a thread about it. THis thread is discussing LFD and LFR.

 

Now please read my post again, then respond to my post, if you want. You response made no sense. the term LFG tool is not in my post.

 

 

here i'll repeat myself, would you like to adresss the actual point?

 

that WoW gained subs during BC, when there was no LFD LFR or EZmode content. (Incorrect) And ever since the release of LFD WoW has been slowly ( or recently not so slowly) losing subs.

 

Or do you want to ignore the facts and provide us with some more useless anecdotal evidence?

 

 

 

Again let me put this so you can understand. You are wrong, the LFD group was released with BC...which was that games's golden era according to you. What part of what I am saying are you not understanding? Your claiming that bc was popular when it did not have a LFD tool, which in reality that was the update that introduced that tool in wow. And according to you that's when its popularity increased. I highlighted the flaws in your argument with pretty colors, hopefully you can stop being smug and read your own words and check your so called facts before posting.

 

Here is the post regarding that tool;

 

Looking For Group Tool

This new tool is designed to assist players in finding groups for instanced dungeons and quests.

 

 

 

(Edited to change the G to D...since in essence is the same thing.)

Really, the fact? The real fact is that the LFD tool came out in patch 2.0 a.k.a. the buring crusade. For your reference: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/patch-notes/2-0

 

So according to your own words, wow gained most of its popularity and subs during BC, then LFD tool must have been a reason for that. Is this direct enough for you? A LFG tool will not harm the game but make it stronger and increase its popularity.

Edited January 5, 2012 by LordAposno

[Khoranth]

Again let me put this so you can understand. You are wrong, the LFD group was released with BC...which was that games's golden era according to you. What part of what I am saying are you not understanding? Your claiming that bc was popular when it did not have a LFD tool, which in reality that was the update that introduced that tool in wow. And according to you that's when its popularity increased. I highlighted the flaws in your argument with pretty colors, hopefully you can stop being smug and read your own words and check your so called facts before posting.

 

 

 

 

 

(Edited to change the G to D...since in essence is the same thing.)

Really, the fact? The real fact is that the LFD tool came out in patch 2.0 a.k.a. the buring crusade. For your reference: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/patch-notes/2-0

 

So according to your own words, wow gained most of its popularity and subs during BC, then LFD tool must have been a reason for that. Is this direct enough for you? A LFG tool will not harm the game but make it stronger and increase its popularity.

 

You are 100% wrong.

 

BC never had LFD, you are incorrect. BC had a LFG tool, an LFG tool is not remotely the same as the LFD tool.

 

There is just no way a reasonable human being can come to that conclusion. Yes they are both tools used for grouping, but they are not the same, at all.

 

I repeat, if you want to discuss an LFG tool, make a thread about it, LFD tool =/= LFg tool,

not even close

[Leporello]

TC's post smells of desperation. It's like hearing a politician talk about "this is what the people want", even though what he is proposing is awful and he ends up losing re-election.

[blubomber]

I did not say LFd caused the decline ( not exclusveily) i pointed out FACTS that WoW gaiend its most subs during BC, and has been on the decline since LFD was released.

 

Those are facts, you choose to ignore the effect China, and wotlk recently being released in China, has had on sub numbers

 

You saying that BC not having "EZmode content" or an LFD caused its popularity (which you havent said directly, just keep implying with no proof whatsoever) is wrong.

 

BC also had one of the lowest adoption rate of people running heroic mode dungeons. It wasnt until the end of wrath did the majority of the playerbase actually get to play the content that was there.

[Spareplug]

I don't agree with your claims and I'm part of the majority of SWTOR players.

 

One huge difference between SWTOR and WoW regarding group content is the current way to form groups, and incidentally the travel distance.

 

Currently we can flag our selfs as looking for group, but unless you are within the same instanced part of the planet/fleet as the person looking for your class you are out of luck. Thus filling the LFG field for BT while questing in Tatooine defeats the point add to that, that there is no automated transfer to assemble the group by the flashpoint/H Quest entrance and it becomes very frustrating and a time consuming exersice. Hence why much of group finding happens in local chat. Getting into a group instance is a lot more difficult in SWTOR that it currently is in WoW.

 

If you are doing quests on a planet, you won't hear the chat in fleet where the flashpoint groups are formed. And if a group form, getting from where you are to the instance entrance isn't all that obvious most of the time. And this is a very annoying issue with Flash Points. Unless you are physically present in fleet there is no way for you to know if someone needs your current class. I don't see how is a benefit to the community that I spend 30-45 minutes standing in one place waiting for other minded poeple, with the need to do the same flash point as me to appear.

 

The emergency fleet pass only works once every 18 hours for those of us that don't have an authenticator, so most of the time you need to "hearthstone" to the spaceport of the planet you are on, and that is on a 30 minutes CD, and then do a lot of running, find the fleet shuttle, if there is one or wait for the multiple loading screens to get from the spaceport via your hangar and your ship to the fleet and then the level where the instances start.

 

And then you have to take the same way back in reverse to continue with your questing after the instance. Not very convenient, and thus there is a lot less group action in SWTOR than it could be.

 

However I digress. The map size on SWTOR is larger by several degrees than that of WoW. Currently if you are on one side of the map in Tatooine it can take you up to 15 minutes to get to where you need to be and this assuming you know where you are going. I don't see how this is a benefit to the community.

 

I have not calculated how long it would take me to go to Fleet from any given planet but I'm sure is also a considerable amount of time given all the loading screen and the fact that the fleet pass has 18 hours CD. That travel time could be spent doing something more fun and social.

 

Cheers,

[Krazeh]

There is just no way a reasonable human being can come to that conclusion. Yes they are both tools used for grouping, but they are not the same, at all.

 

Both were tools in which you could queue while looking for a dungeon and would form groups or find extra people to fill out a group. Yeah, you're right, they're nothing alike.... The current incarnation may be cross server and port you directly to the instance but it doesn't make it completely different to what went before.

 

And when are you going to get round to posting some facts to support your claims instead of relying on anecdotal evidence?

[Khoranth]

You saying that BC not having "EZmode content" or an LFD caused its popularity (which you havent said directly, just keep implying with no proof whatsoever) is wrong.

 

BC also had one of the lowest adoption rate of people running heroic mode dungeons. It wasnt until the end of wrath did the majority of the playerbase actually get to play the content that was there.

 

Once again, you ignore my post and make an argument for something i never said.

 

I never discussed rates of players and what content they ran.

 

Look, your made up facts on WoW sub numbers are all wrong anyways.

 

WoW gained more subs during BC then any other time, WoW has lost more subs in wotlk then any other time.

 

You said yourself, most of the wow subs lost were in china, guess what xpacx was recently released in CHina? wotlk, not cataclysm.

 

WoW gained more subs during BC, worldwide, in eu us china and everywhere during BC, and there was no LFR no LFD no ezmode content

 

WoW has lost more subs during wotlk than any other time, and wotlk introduced LFD and ezmode content.

 

draw your own conclusions as to why, but those are the facts

[ryanvward]

LFG would only be nice to allow players to let each other know they are interested, especially those who are in different instances of the same place.

 

I will never know if someone on Alderaan 3 is LFG if I am on Alderaan 1.

 

However, I am vehemently against teleportation once the group has been found, find each other the old fashioned way.

 

As it stands now, I don't even bother asking for groups, knowing there are probably ten other instances of the planet I am on, who can't hear me.

Edited January 5, 2012 by ryanvward

[blubomber]

WoW gained more subs during BC, worldwide, in eu us china and everywhere during BC, and there was no LFR no LFD no ezmode content

 

You keep saying this, but still havent provided 1 bit of data to back it.

[ghettogenius]

Sorry all you guys in WoW had to deal with this LFG/LFD/LFR nonsense. No wonder you guys are all bent out of shape here, that system is way too complicated and obtuse. Cross server groups? Lame. Auto queue where people are automatically added to your group? Its no wonder you needed things like gearscore to screen players. Separate mechanisms for dungeons and raids? Are there no object-oriented programmers over there that understand the use of redundancy and re-usability?

 

I simply see no need for multiple tools to do basically the same thing. My guess is others feel the same way, thats why theyre chiming in here and using the LFD/LFG terms liberally. Most WoW players agree, that system was borked. So why carry that ideology into this new game? If youre going to borrow elements, wouldnt it make more sense to at least look into a game where that element was viewed favorably?

 

Like say DDO? http://www.ddo.com/us/ddogameinfo/75-grouping/474-the-grouping-panel

[Krazeh]

draw your own conclusions as to why, but those are the facts

 

WotLK also introduced a raid in Icecrown. That wasn't in BC. The Icecrown raid must be the cause of the decline in subs.

 

See, I can also play taking two facts and linking them without any proof.