The ANTI LFD and LFR tool thread!

[Khoranth]

So in other words you don't actually have anything to back up your claims? Which makes your argument/claims pretty much meaningless.

 

Well i told you the facts and then told you my conclusions based on the facts. You are certainly allowed to disagree, i do not know where you are going with this statement.

 

And if there is one thing that is 100% proven by the facts: you do not need LFR LFD and ezmode content to draw in 10 million + subs.

[blubomber]

Except that most of our arguments have been about the negative effect on the community of the server, not our experiences with bad players within the tool.

 

What you did is called a straw man, for future reference. You created and defeated an argument we didn't make acting like it somehow relates to our argument.

 

This is considered bad form.

 

funny enough i wasnt talking about your argument. I have already said how i feel about "server community":

 

Spamming "LF1m XXXX HM" Does not create or build a community.

[Demonix]

i approve this message

[Khoranth]

So your against the LFD because the solution to your only stated objection was implemented poorly in a completely different game?

 

Yes. you are correct, LFD was poorly implemented, and I would prefer no LFD then to the travesty that LFD was in WoW, with the heavy handed votekick restrictions.

[blubomber]

You guys are arguing over a cross server LFD

 

A same server LFD would not produce the same results.

 

And its not the tool that failed its the community using the tool that failed and caused subs to cancel.

 

a same server LFD does not alleviate the population concerns low pop servers have. Its a small change on high pop servers, and a wasted change on low pop servers.

[Spareplug]

It is common knowledge WoW gained their largest amount of subs during BC, it is also common knowledge that WoW has lost millions of subs recently, it is also common knowledge most of those subs were from China, it is also common knowledge wotlk was just released in China.

 

All of this stuff is common knowledge to everyone who has followed WoW and blizzard.

Your post is nonsensical garbage. It is like me demanding you post a link to prove to me that WoW exists as a game, and blizzard exists as a company, waste of my time to prove something every informed WoW player should already know.

 

The only common knowledge here, as stated by several posters, is that you have a penchant to dismiss and insult, albeit in a very concealed way, anyone who disagrees with your claims.

 

Nothing of what you say holds an inch of truth. You manipulate the facts to fit your own agenda and choose to disregard anything that may hinder it. You are the kind of player this community doesn't need.

 

Having said that, I bid you adieu and wish you luck in you galactic travels.

[Yfelsung]

funny enough i wasnt talking about your argument. I have already said how i feel about "server community":

 

Spamming "LF1m XXXX HM" Does not create or build a community.

 

You're right, it doesn't, that's more of an argument against zone wide channels than for the LFD tool.

 

The wider a channel, the worse the channel.

 

See, I don't spam the general channel to find people. I use /say and tells to, you know, socialize with people. Learn their names, RP with them a little, see if they're nice people.

 

You know, human interaction. Basic socialization techniques.

 

When you try to meet new people in real life, do you stand on a street corner screaming at the top of your lungs?

 

I get it, you've never seen a good MMO community. Doesn't mean they're not real.

[Ydocretsof]

Anyone here ever play DDO(Dungeons & Dragons Online)? While not the most popular MMO w/ a lot of issues it has an excellent LFG system that allows leaders to get who they want and puggers to join groups that have potential to not suck. It's not cross server, just a simple queue system that tells you what quest a group is doing, who's in and what they need. You click join and they accept or deny. Spamming general chat is highly inefficient and I feel the difficulty in grouping should be the FP itself and not in finding ppl to group with.

[Khoranth]

The only common knowledge here, as stated by several posters, is that you have a penchant to dismiss and insult, albeit in a very concealed way, anyone who disagrees with your claims.

 

Nothing of what you say holds an inch of truth. You manipulate the facts to fit your own agenda and choose to disregard anything that may hinder it. You are the kind of player this community doesn't need.

 

Having said that, I bid you adieu and wish you luck in you galactic travels.

 

Everything i said was 100% correct. Now you can disagree with my conlusions i draw based on facts, but there is no disputing the time periods and xpacs that were out when WoW sub numbers rose and fell. And there is no disputing when LFD was released.

 

If you don't believe tehre is a correlation, just say that, you don't have to hide your lack of a good argument with attacks.

[blubomber]

Yes. you are correct, LFD was poorly implemented, and I would prefer no LFD then to the travesty that LFD was in WoW, with the heavy handed votekick restrictions.

 

you clearly didnt understand what i said. What you said was not against LFD, just against a restrictive vote kick system.

 

1 games poor implementation is not a good reason to not have a system as a whole.

 

I think coke isnt good, so i will never drink any cola.

[rgolch]

I was very adamant in the beginning that this game needed some type of LFG/Dungeon finder tool in the beginning. However, I would say that it has been pretty easy finding groups for heroic quests. Flashpoints have been a little more difficult for me personally, and you have to be really patient at times (since you have to sit in the flashpoint entry point waiting). I do fear that DPS'ers are eventually gonna have a hard time finding groups. And the lack of a dual-spec significantly limits your options.

 

What I don't get is, why do people who hate LFG tools forcing your opinions on everyone else? If you don't like the tool, just don't use it. And quit being childish in assuming it will ruin the community. That's just plain ridiculous.

[Spareplug]

Worked fine on every server I ever played on.

 

Considering I am a person who very often "rubs people the wrong way", if I avoided becoming blacklisted over the years, then you have to really deserve it to get nailed.

 

There are guilds on ShC that would have raid long discussions about how I am a bad person in real life, and I still never got ousted by the community.

 

Maybe the only reason why YOU were not blacklisted or ousted is because you were part of the ring leaders and thus part of the manipulation process that goes in galvanizing a crown to suit your needs and thus start the mob lynching mentality.

 

The fact that you admit to being a subject of conversations in other guild raid discussions shows that you clearly like that sort of attention. You may have been part of a guild that was socially superior to other guilds in your server and the risk of alienating your guild was not worth the risk of blacklisting you. You probably know this and actually revel in the knowledge of having so much power.

 

Its very common for bullies to have minions that feed them that superiority complex most of them have.

[Moricthian]

Everything i said was 100% correct. Now you can disagree with my conlusions i draw based on facts, but there is no disputing the time periods and xpacs that were out when WoW sub numbers rose and fell. And there is no disputing when LFD was released.

 

If you don't believe tehre is a correlation, just say that, you don't have to hide your lack of a good argument with attacks.

 

 

The argument goes as follows:

 

1. WOW inplemented an LFG tool

2. WOW started losing subs sometime after that

3. ?????????

4. The LFG tool caused WOW to lose subs.

[Khoranth]

you clearly didnt understand what i said. What you said was not against LFD, just against a restrictive vote kick system.

 

1 games poor implementation is not a good reason to not have a system as a whole.

 

I think coke isnt good, so i will never drink any cola.

 

I'd prefer not risk a copy of WOW's disasterous LFD system, and their heavy handed votekick restrictions.

 

WoWs LFD system allowed greifers and leecers and jerks everywhere to thrive.

[Khoranth]

The argument goes as follows:

 

1. WOW inplemented an LFG tool

2. WOW started losing subs sometime after that

3. ?????????

4. The LFG tool caused WOW to lose subs.

 

That is my conclusion, partially, that LFD, among other things played a part in the loss of WoW subs.

 

You don't have to agree with that, i did not say that my opinion was a fact.

[Thekk]

I does not matter if you want the LFD or not, it's a must and a MMO standard.

[Moricthian]

That is my conclusion, partially, that LFD, among other things played a part in the loss of WoW subs.

 

You don't have to agree with that, i did not say that my opinion was a fact.

 

Your opinion is based on faulty logic, zero evidence, and should be disregarded by everyone else. Though you are more than welcome to still hold to if you want.

[Yfelsung]

Maybe the only reason why YOU were not blacklisted or ousted is because you were part of the ring leaders and thus part of the manipulation process that goes in galvanizing a crown to suit your needs and thus start the mob lynching mentality.

 

The fact that you admit to being a subject of conversations in other guild raid discussions shows that you clearly like that sort of attention. You may have been part of a guild that was socially superior to other guilds in your server and the risk of alienating your guild was not worth the risk of blacklisting you. You probably know this and actually revel in the knowledge of having so much power.

 

Its very common for bullies to have minions that feed them that superiority complex most of them have.

 

Me, a ring leader?

 

*laughs*

 

I'm probably one of the laziest human beings you've ever met. I didn't organize anything.

 

The only reason I'm even Phobos Legion's guild leader is because my entire guild is just as lazy as I am.

 

Oh, old ShCers would laugh at the idea of me being a ring leader.

 

I was just a man with a habit for deflating egos on the server forums. Sometimes I've deflate them a little over-zealously and hurt some feelings. One guild, in particular, ended up on the wrong end of some of my verbal jabbing and generally all members of the guild hate me, to this day I might add.

 

Me, a ring leader?

 

*chuckles some more*

[Spareplug]

Wow you are comparing RL crime to a player in a video game wanting the power to be able to kick a ninja looter, or jerk from his group, in a video game.

 

Is this supposed to be a troll joke post? or do you seriously think it is the same thing: having a police force to handle RL crime, to prevent MOB justice, and a group leader in a video game being able to kick people he does not want in group?

 

If you where to actually think about what you post you wouldn't have to second guess my posts.

 

Ever stop to think that maybe the ones doing the kicking are actually the ones being jerks? It works both ways you know. Leaving the community to police themselve only results in abuse of power and incites bullies to rise to the surface. I don't need that in this game.

 

Also, since you've raise the matter, if I roll need on an item for my companion, (a game feature introduced and fully supported by Bioware that players are encouraged to use) does that make me a ninja looter or a jerk just because i'm playing the game as the developers intended?

 

Or am I being a jerk or ninja-looter just because I'm not playing the game the way you want the world to play the game i.e YOUR way?

[blubomber]

You're right, it doesn't, that's more of an argument against zone wide channels than for the LFD tool.

 

The wider a channel, the worse the channel.

 

See, I don't spam the general channel to find people. I use /say and tells to, you know, socialize with people. Learn their names, RP with them a little, see if they're nice people.

 

You know, human interaction. Basic socialization techniques.

 

When you try to meet new people in real life, do you stand on a street corner screaming at the top of your lungs?

 

I get it, you've never seen a good MMO community. Doesn't mean they're not real.

 

Its easy to say im not being social even though you do not know me or the way i interact on the server.

 

Ive played wow for 6 years, Rift with 2 characters to 50 before and after they introduced their LFD (both variations of it) and many other online games for years before that. Ive done casual pugging and serious server first raiding.

 

I know what it means to have a good group. I did UBRS pugs when you still needed 15 people to complete it before MC was even available.

 

you know what? It sucked trying to put those together. Yes i met friends, but no more then i did after Wraths system came out.

 

It just doesnt work in the extremes everyone wants to make it out to

[Olzmo]

People giving arguments like "you don't need a LFG system to get X amount of subs", grab a hold of even a modicum of rationality, will ya. People attune and times change.

[Khoranth]

Your opinion is based on faulty logic, zero evidence, and should be disregarded by everyone else. Though you are more than welcome to still hold to if you want.

 

The expanions and WoW's sub numbers and what features were in those expansions are all facts.

 

Do you actually want to argue with the fact that wow saw its biggest increase in subs durin BC?

 

Do you actually want to argue that WoW saw its biggest decrease in subs during wotlk?

 

Those 2 things are facts, if you want to argue with my conclusions, fine. but you make yourself look foolish if are you are trying to argue with those 2 facts.

[Yfelsung]

Its easy to say im not being social even though you do not know me or the way i interact on the server.

 

Ive played wow for 6 years, Rift with 2 characters to 50 before and after they introduced their LFD (both variations of it) and many other online games for years before that. Ive done casual pugging and serious server first raiding.

 

I know what it means to have a good group. I did UBRS pugs when you still needed 15 people to complete it before MC was even available.

 

you know what? It sucked trying to put those together. Yes i met friends, but no more then i did after Wraths system came out.

 

It just doesnt work in the extremes everyone wants to make it out to

 

I was in those same 15 man UBRS groups you were.

 

I main tanked MC for two raid guilds.

 

I never had a problem getting groups because I had a very large friendlist and I was very well known in the RP community on my server for my short stories.

 

I was also a tank, and well geared, which helps of course.

[Spareplug]

There is one time when its okay to be a bully.

 

When you punch another bully in the face.

 

That's all that happened with Packhunter.

 

He picked a fight, he lost.

 

There is one time when is also to be a wife beater i.e when they don't do what you want them to do...yet those people go to jail.

 

Please stop making senseless comments...you're showing your true colors.

 

Also you should refrain form naming and shaming as it is against the Forum Rules regardless if the said toon still exists or not.

[ghettogenius]

Just because YOU have never seen it happen does not mean that it has not happen. What you promote enable this to happen therefore you, though your enabling, promote this kind of vigilante mentality/behaviour where manipulation and abuse are rife.

 

Thanks but no thanks. We don't need bullies in this game. There is enough of that in RL

 

Not to be rude but how do you deal with bullies in RL? Is it really too hard to apply this concept to a gaming community?

 

I didnt know I was such an enabler. I feel so bad now having ruined everyones gaming experiences all these years.

 

You are correct tho, just because I didnt experience doesnt mean it doesnt happen. This just seems like kindergarten 101 logic here tho. Ignore the bullies and dont jump off bridges because others do.