Spareplug Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I would be willing to bet that many of us who are "anti-LFD" are actually just against a cross-server LFD. I don't want a cross-server LFD tool EVER, and I don't really want something that teleports us to our instance, either. And yet, I'm sure you are very happy to have the functionality that teleports you out of the instance once you are done running it. Following your rationale they should remove that too so you can trek it back to the beginning, once you have killed the final boss, and exit the instance through the same way you enter it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghettogenius Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 PUGs are not how established/competitive guilds recruit. They recruit by having you put an application on their website. If selected you then run a trial that could consist but its not limited to maybe running a few end-game instances. If you pass you are accepted as an initiate and only when you have really proved yourself after an initially established period of time will you be allowed as a full member and be promoted to raider. At earlier levels when guilds are still young this form or recruiting may work but by then if a decent competent player hasn't got a guild I would wonder why....... Once more. Please stop generalizing. For all your experience you show little common sense. Not really arguing with you but you seem to be generalizing here yourself. Not all successful guilds are run this way, and yes successful is an relative term. In fact you pretty much described the exact type of guilds that I normally avoid. Applications? Trials? Fees? Sounds like Im applying for a job. A job implies work. Im here to have fun, not work. Doesnt mean I dont put in work, but I prefer a less formal atmosphere. And dont go claim that this alienates me from end game raids/content. In all games Ive played and was part of a guild, they were casual guilds and we hammered end game content no problem. Not badmouthing those types of guilds. Some people enjoy the extra paperwork and social aspect of running a guild, and the competitive drive to be "best". Still others just want a like minded group of individuals to more easily fill groups and raids with. Coincidentally I joined those guilds after questing with members through pugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krazeh Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I did not put forth a scenario, i put forth the facts, and the facts show that you do not need LFD LFR or ezmode content to have a 10 million+ subb'd game. Again, noone's disputing that WoW managed to get a lot of subscribers before it introduced a number of things that are currently in the game. The facts also show when LFD LFR and ezmode were introduced into WoW, WoWW started bleeding subs, numbering more recently in the millions. Yes, the facts show that things were added to the game around a time when sub numbers started dropping off, they don't however show a correlation between the two. Im not drawing any conclusions, those are common knowledge facts. By linking 'LFD, LFR and ezmode content' with increases/decreases in subscriber numbers as you have done in your posts you are presenting a conclusion rather than simply stating facts. And I will not provide evidence for common knowledge, that is a stupid request, I am not sitting ehre demanding you provide evidence that blizzard and WoW exist, it is common knowledge. Any serious blizzard follower knows everything I am saying as a fact is a fact. I'm not asking you to provide evidence for the things that are common knowledge, i.e. the increase in subscribers during BC or the decrease in subscribers since WotLK or that the current LFD tool was introduced during WotLK. I'm asking you to provide evidence that the LFD tool caused WoW to lose subscribers or that it caused WoW to lose more subscribers than would have left if it hadn't been introduced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbocroft Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Am i the only one that has been playing wow, evidently in a different dimension, with no trouble at all with dungeon finder groups?For me it was actually the norm building a nice group without jerks or ninjas.. those happened exactly with the same frequency there was before tool introduction.Really it seems, by reading those posts, that for each group built with lfg tool a puppy dies... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yfelsung Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Ive done several hundred LFD runs in WoW, and ive vote kicked maybe 20 total times. It is absolutely not as bad as you are over exaggerating. Different experiences. Different battlegroups (when they still had different ones). Just like different servers. My server community was gutted by the LFD tool, yours apparently wasn't. Doesn't make my concern less valid because it didn't happen to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khoranth Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Ive done several hundred LFD runs in WoW, and ive vote kicked maybe 20 total times. It is absolutely not as bad as you are over exaggerating. You are in a pool of millions, it is completely random how often you run into jerks. Just because you are lucky and ran into far fewer then me does not mean you should rub that in, your lucky, i had bad luck in LFD, you should just be happy you did not have to have a miserable expereince like me in LFD 50% of the time i queued Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichLather Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) Typing in "LFG FOR DUNGEON X!" is..1- Not a "social activity" that will lead to anyone in the run being more talkative or nice. 2- Annoying because there is no GUI to tell us what the ETA is on a run. When you queue and the GUI says "eta 45 mins" thats fine because you know and can continue to quest or pvp while waiting. Standing there typing in LFG for 45 minutes is absolutely hair rippingly frustrating. 3- A lazy excuse for developers to not have to put in a system that is a very basic industry standard, thanks for giving Bioware permission to be lazy. And lastly, if you do not want to use the tool and would rather waste hours of your time standing in the fleet typing in "LF A TANK FOR DUNGEON X" you can do that with or without a LFG tool. But what is the reasoning for trying to block others from enjoying the tool? There is the real question! Why are you trying to stop others from having there enjoyment of the game?!?!?!? It makes 0 logical sense for people to try and block others from having basic MMO tools, its absolutely ridiculous! Edited January 5, 2012 by RichLather Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khoranth Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I'm not asking you to provide evidence for the things that are common knowledge, i.e. the increase in subscribers during BC or the decrease in subscribers since WotLK or that the current LFD tool was introduced during WotLK. I'm asking you to provide evidence that the LFD tool caused WoW to lose subscribers or that it caused WoW to lose more subscribers than would have left if it hadn't been introduced. Ok i have clearly stated that this part here is my conclusion ie my opinion. I cannot provide you with a website link to my opinions as i do not have a blog. here is a link to the swtor website: swtor.com you can find plenty of my opinions on their forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leporello Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 SO since you know I am right, you decide to make jokes to distract from the actual topic and point i made? Guess you have no choice, since you have no valid argument against the points i made I didn't find your argument valid at all, and in fact, found it completely fallacious. Actually, to call it an argument would be fallacious as well. It isn't an argument to say, "I'm so obviously right in my rhetoric that I don't need to prove anything - it's common sense." That's the opposite of an argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blubomber Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Am i the only one that has been playing wow, evidently in a different dimension, with no trouble at all with dungeon finder groups? For me it was actually the norm building a nice group without jerks or ninjas.. those happened exactly with the same frequency there was before tool introduction. Really it seems, by reading those posts, that for each group built with lfg tool a puppy dies... nope, LFD hate is people blaming the system for their lack of interest for the game and the developers changes. Its an easy scapegoat instead of just saying they dont like the people that play the game. The system doesnt make bad players, people are just bad out of the gate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xugos Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I don't really care about this subject either way, but can we stop claiming to speak for the majority if we don't have hard numbers to prove it? You make too much sense for the OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blubomber Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 You are in a pool of millions, it is completely random how often you run into jerks. Just because you are lucky and ran into far fewer then me does not mean you should rub that in, your lucky, i had bad luck in LFD, you should just be happy you did not have to have a miserable expereince like me in LFD 50% of the time i queued If 50% of your groups had jerks in them, the common thread there is that you were in them. you are exaggerating and still have yet to back up one of your arguments with anything more subjective personal experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichLather Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 nope, LFD hate is people blaming the system for their lack of interest for the game and the developers changes. Its an easy scapegoat instead of just saying they dont like the people that play the game. The system doesnt make bad players, people are just bad out of the gate. "I had a really bad experience with the LFG tool because Im a bad player and they were mean to me. Now I want to block others from enjoying it because of my .0000000000001% experience" that is this thread in a nutshell! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khoranth Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I didn't find your argument valid at all, and in fact, found it completely fallacious. Actually, to call it an argument would be fallacious as well. It isn't an argument to say, "I'm so obviously right in my rhetoric that I don't need to prove anything - it's common sense." That's the opposite of an argument. So more jokes and attacks, but you refuse to adress the point i actually made. I can't say your response is suprising or was unexpected. I don't think you can muster up a good argument against mine, so i won't hold my breathe waiting for you to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blubomber Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 "i had a really bad experience with the lfg tool because im a bad player and they were mean to me. Now i want to block others from enjoying it because of my .0000000000001% experience" that is this thread in a nutshell! ^this^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yfelsung Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 If 50% of your groups had jerks in them, the common thread there is that you were in them. you are exaggerating and still have yet to back up one of your arguments with anything more subjective personal experience. Technically, neither side of this argument has brought up a single objective fact. So, you know, the kettle called and left a message about you being black (and please be intelligent enough to understand that's not racial). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khoranth Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 If 50% of your groups had jerks in them, the common thread there is that you were in them. you are exaggerating and still have yet to back up one of your arguments with anything more subjective personal experience. i thought i made it very clear that was my personal experience with LFD, i never said otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blubomber Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 i thought i made it very clear that was my personal experience with LFD, i never said otherwise. Ill just reqoute RichLather then: "i had a really bad experience with the lfg tool because im a bad player and they were mean to me. Now i want to block others from enjoying it because of my .0000000000001% experience" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khoranth Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 "I had a really bad experience with the LFG tool because Im a bad player and they were mean to me. Now I want to block others from enjoying it because of my .0000000000001% experience" that is this thread in a nutshell! Bad players and jerks thrive in blizzards LFD, with heavy handed votekick restrictions. The votekick restrictions are so limiting it is very easy for bad players to force groups to carry them to gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krazeh Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Ok i have clearly stated that this part here is my conclusion ie my opinion. I cannot provide you with a website link to my opinions as i do not have a blog. here is a link to the swtor website: swtor.com you can find plenty of my opinions on their forums. So in other words you don't actually have anything to back up your claims? Which makes your argument/claims pretty much meaningless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spareplug Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 In my experience I have never seen this happen to someone who did not deserve it. How is one individual driving this contempt towards someone without evidence? Are you all a bunch of mindless drones that just does what the guy next to you does? I would personally never blacklist anyone without having witnessed their behavior firsthand on at least one occasion. Griefers gonna grief. And in cases where someone was inappropriately kicked or dropped, the issue has come to light on the forums and the general consensus is that that player was better off not being in that group because it was being led by either elitists, noobs, or jerks in which case the group was destined for failure anyways. Just because YOU have never seen it happen does not mean that it has not happen. What you promote enable this to happen therefore you, though your enabling, promote this kind of vigilante mentality/behaviour where manipulation and abuse are rife. Thanks but no thanks. We don't need bullies in this game. There is enough of that in RL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yfelsung Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Ill just reqoute RichLather then: "i had a really bad experience with the lfg tool because im a bad player and they were mean to me. Now i want to block others from enjoying it because of my .0000000000001% experience" Except that most of our arguments have been about the negative effect on the community of the server, not our experiences with bad players within the tool. What you did is called a straw man, for future reference. You created and defeated an argument we didn't make acting like it somehow relates to our argument. This is considered bad form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moricthian Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Ill just reqoute RichLather then: "i had a really bad experience with the lfg tool because im a bad player and they were mean to me. Now i want to block others from enjoying it because of my .0000000000001% experience" A thousand times this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barracudastr Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 You guys are arguing over a cross server LFD A same server LFD would not produce the same results. And its not the tool that failed its the community using the tool that failed and caused subs to cancel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blubomber Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Bad players and jerks thrive in blizzards LFD, with heavy handed votekick restrictions. The votekick restrictions are so limiting it is very easy for bad players to force groups to carry them to gear. So your against the LFD because the solution to your only stated objection was implemented poorly in a completely different game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts