Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)

[Zeetofox]

Wow, I thought I was the only person that saw this issue when I was playing, so I never said anything about it.

 

The GCD is just killing me... sometimes literally.

 

They give me an ability on my Shadow that lets me run up and stun someone for 4 seconds. Well that would be great except I run up, stun them and then stand there with my lightsaber up my hind parts waiting 1.5 seconds for the GCD to finish before I can actually do some damage to the stunned target.

 

In other words, it might as well be a 2.5 second stun, which is damn near worthless considering I can only get one attack off during that time and then I'm waiting for another GCD to finish.

 

The fluidity and responsiveness in this game is just absolutely horrid. Great story, yes, but the gameplay is abysmal at best.

 

From my understanding you're complaining about the GCD being too long? If that's the case you're in the wrong thread.

[Asnine]

a few of the videos show characters having to wait a split second for animations to finish (as the developers intended) and one of the videos shows a guy casting a heal and moving a bit before the heal takes effect. it looked like a connection issue.

 

everyone is comparing the combat to wow and it's clear they can't handle the more cinematic approach to combat that bioware took.

 

and i wish people would stop saying those who lack a competitive edge or skill are the ones who don't notice the problem because i'm pretty good at games, i've played hardcore MMOs, and swtor isn't exactly the most demanding game.

 

Regardless of the combat delay (which takes getting used to and is very annoying...e.g. it would be nice to now that my assasinate hits ~1.5 seconds AFTER I cast it, or that my KB which can be an interrupt actually interrupts ~1.5 seconds AFTER I hit the button for it), there should be no excuse for me trying to use an ability and then just having the animation being cancelled over and over again (ala trying to use Maul on an assasin or the Riposte video in the OP)

[dcjoker]

it's just a perceived delay due to the way animations and ability recovery work. everyone is so used to twitch-based combat that the combat in swtor can seem a little unresponsive and slow.

 

Yeah I'm sure this issue which has been continually discussed over 5 threads and over 600 pages of replies has absolutely no merit simply because you proclaim so.

 

Pro tip: stop clicking.

[Kronix]

In the words of south park

rabble!!! rabble!!!!! rabble!!!!!

[supertouch]

Yeah I'm sure this issue which has been continually discussed over 5 threads and over 600 pages of replies has absolutely no merit simply because you proclaim so.

 

Pro tip: stop clicking.

 

i don't click. stop mashing buttons and wondering why you can't kill stuff.

[Memilish]

Okay. Point by point, here's what I'm having as a sorcerer healer.

 

- When I'm solo with my companion, all is fine.

- At all times, instant cast spells (Resurgence, Static Barrier) and channeled spells (Force Lightning, Innervate) are fine.

- When I'm in a group, cast time spells (Dark Heal, Dark Infusion, Revivification, Crushing Darkness, Lightning Strike) sometimes - not always - will have a delay on them. I have found generally that the larger the group, the more frequent this issue becomes.

Note I do not have this issue at all when I solo-play, a reason that many may not have found these kinds of things to happen at all.

What frequently happens is one of two things:

1) When I try to cast a spell, there is a delay of 0.2-0.5+ seconds before the cast bar turns up. When it turns up, it casts just normally and fires at the end as the bar is filled.

2) When I try to cast a spell, it starts casting immediately, but a delay of the same length happens once the bar is filled before the spell actually casts and does its healing. During this I have no cast bar, I can do nothing else, my character just stands doing the casting animation until she does the forward-push-thing that releases the spell.

The same occurs with Lightning Strike and Crushing Darkness, but seems less frequent. I do, however, for natural reasons use these spells a lot less often in group environments and thus cannot say for sure if it's coincidence or just me being luckier with these spells.

Either way, this to me is the "character response issue".

- The same issues have come up with Kolto Infusion playing as an Agent (I haven't played as far though, so I cannot comment on any other of their healing or just general cast time spells). Diagnostic Scan - another channelled spell - works perfectly fine at all times.

 

Possible reasons I first thought of and have since dismissed through trial and error:

- Me "abusing" the Force Bending proc in the Corruption tree. What I found I can do is cast Resurgence to trigger it, channel Innervate with the 25% crit bonus, and then cast Dark Infusion at the reduced 1.5 second cast. What I thought may be occurring was that while my client said I used Force Bending twice (note it only has one use so this should not happen in the first place), the server said stop and forced me to do the proper 2.5 second cast. The delay, however, very rarely reaches a full second, and occurs even when I cast heals back to back in group play.

- Lag or FPS issues. I have none of either. As mentioned above, at all times instant and channeled spells are working perfectly fine for me, no matter how large the group (except in the few areas where I experience severe FPS drops, but that's a separate issue and has never happened in conjunction with grouping).

- The ability queue. It is possible cast times may not interact well with this queue system, as mentioned, Resurgence, Static Barrier and Innervate all work perfectly fine with it. However, the queue also works just fine with Dark Heal, Revivification and Dark Infusion as well as damage spells when I am solo.

- Animations. None of my heals have animations that in any way change over time. Whether my character spent 0.5 or 15 seconds casting any heal, she would not move in any significant way. The only alteration is when the cast finishes and she moves her hands in some way to finish it up (exact motion varies from spell to spell).

They seem deliberately designed to allow them to clip or end at any point, as if the system is intended to let you smoothly cast, yet does not allow you to do so properly for spells with a cast time.

 

TL;DR: Cast time spells are not working smoothly when I'm in groups. The larger the group, the more frequent this issue becomes.

 

If you have none of these issues, fine, grats. Sadly that does not help me or many others who seem to.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Memilish

[dcjoker]

Supertouch you're wrong BW already admitted this is an issue. Your willful ignorance/ being too slow to notice doesn't invalidate the issue. Edited January 6, 2012 by dcjoker

[Zeetofox]

Supertouch you're wrong BW already admitted this is an issue. Your willful ignorance/ being too slow to notice doesn't invalidate the issue.

 

All fairness, they haven't specifically said if it affects everyone. Although i still believe that until someone comes along with a high ranked PvP background from an MMO saying it affects them id say it affects everyone.

[supertouch]

it's not twitch-based combat so stop applying other games' mechanics to swtor. they haven't acknowledged a flaw in their programming. they've acknowledged that a bunch of people can't handle brief animations. also, wow's pvp sucks. Edited January 6, 2012 by supertouch

[Excedrin]

Played all aspects of WoW (PvP and raiding) obsessively for over 4 years and SWTOR "feels" exactly the same to me in terms of ability responsiveness. Not sure what to tell ya. Maybe it's your rig cuz it "feels" great to me. No problems on my end.

 

Is there any issue with this game that everyone can acknowledge exists, or will there always be those fanboys that declare every problem with the game to be a lie?

[monjiay]

it's not twitch-based combat so stop applying other games' mechanics to swtor. they haven't acknowledged a flaw in their programming. they've acknowledged that a bunch of people can't handle brief animations. also, wow's pvp sucks.

 

You are never going to understand what is being discussed in this thread.

[supertouch]

i do understand. get a new isp. Edited January 6, 2012 by supertouch

[Zeetofox]

it's not twitch-based combat so stop applying other games' mechanics to swtor. they haven't acknowledged a flaw in their programming. they've acknowledged that a bunch of people can't handle brief animations. also, wow's pvp sucks.

 

WoW has the most established MMO out there lmao, and i highly doubt (but i hope mmos will) anyone will ever match their arena system.

 

Anyways.....

 

"This issue is under active investigation.

 

The complication is that there are actually a number of different issues with very different causes and potential resolutions lumped together in this thread.

 

All we can say for now is 'we are actively working on the topic of character responsiveness'."

 

I see acknowledgment.

[obsidian_star]

"(This will make or break SW:TOR)"

 

lol

[LtDanomg]

I'm curious. Have they given any updates on this? I don't ask this in a rage induced manner, just curious.

[asbalana]

I am in full agreement on the severity of this issue. I play a Gunnery Commando who is now level 37...............

 

 

 

 

On my Trooper, the following abilities bug/aren't responsive:

 

- Reactive Shield/Full Auto: This particular issue I noticed when trying to use these 2 abilities in this order. For some reason when you put up reactive shield, the game does NOT want to let you cast Full Auto right after it. Or even for quite awhile after it. Your gcd will start, but it simply doesn't cast.

 

- Full Auto. I'm sure tons of people complain about this, but the ability doesn't even start firing until sometimes over half the cast is finished. Even if this is a visual bug and the damage is already applied to the mob, I need to SEE and experience this to feel connected to the ability.

 

- Mortar Volley. This is pretty much the same issue as Full Auto. The ability hits 3 times but the first of those 3 hits doesn't go out til the cast bar is half way or more done. This simply doesn't make sense.

 

- Grav Round. Mostly this ability works fine, but like all activation time abilities, sometimes it simply misfires but still activates the gcd forcing you to wait a full second while your character does nothing.

 

One thing I will say, and I have to wonder how Bioware coded it, but High Impact Bolt on my Trooper is absolutely always instant when I hit the button under every circumstance I've come across. It's the only instant in the game I've seen without the issue and maybe that's simply because it has a basic almost non existant animation.

 

So it appears that the overall underlying problem is the game's need to prioritize animation over user input, but it only seems to be a problem with CERTAIN abilites. I'd be curious to see a list compiled of the offending abilites so if nothing else Bioware could change specific ability animations instead of a core mechanic(which they may never do).

 

I play a Trooper, Gunnery, now level 26 and absolutely agree with your observations. I get a lot of misfires on abilities, but it is interesting that Grav Round followed by High Impact Bolt always works and does so instantly without any delay. I never had a problem chaining those two casts. I use Mortor Volley as an opener at times and and Full Auto during fights and indeed they start launching / firing in the middle of the annimation and not at the beginning. I am not sure when the damage hits and have not made a video (probably should) where I can watch what is happening in slow motion or a few frames a a time.

 

------------

 

I have seen a lot of arguments in this thread over what the issues are and if they actually exist. I have seen a great deal of discussion as to what is causing the problems. I have seen a number of calls for the community to list and document the issues and provide video and other examples. It seems as if the issues vary from player to player. from character to character, and from day to day. That issues exist is not, to me, debatable. This thread is on the fifth round and a significant number of people have identified that the combat system is somewhat broken. I see issues every time I play. The call for players to come forth with examples does not make a lot of sense to me. Does anyone at BW play the game? Can it be that when a member of BW's staff plays the game it runs flawlessly? Since any number of people have posted that they identified the combat issues early on and many times during beta, is BW even considering input from players on an individual basis or rather just moting a consensus and considering the implications.

 

Although a percentage of players are having issues, the problem is BWs not theirs. After spending gosh knows how many millions developing the game, I would hope that BW has the will and ability to identify, isolate,diagnose, and address malfunctions. Yes the problem may be the result of a number of interrelate issues and as such be difficult and challanging, but is that not what a game developer does? Who else can do it? At this point the ball is in BWs court. The company has to decide how much money they want to make and how this will affect the company's reputation going forward.

 

If the issues cannot be fixed, then not communicating that the game is as it will be in the future is another issue in and of itself.

[supertouch]

WoW has the most established MMO out there lmao, and i highly doubt (but i hope mmos will) anyone will ever match their arena system.

 

Anyways.....

 

"This issue is under active investigation.

 

The complication is that there are actually a number of different issues with very different causes and potential resolutions lumped together in this thread.

 

All we can say for now is 'we are actively working on the topic of character responsiveness'."

 

I see acknowledgment.

 

wow's pvp is carebear ********.

 

at any rate, i'm standing here spamming underworld medicine and various ranged abilities and nothing is being interrupted and everything is registering properly. you probably have packet loss.

[Zeetofox]

wow's pvp is carebear ********.

 

at any rate, i'm standing here spamming underworld medicine and various ranged abilities and nothing is being interrupted and everything is registering properly. you probably have packet loss.

 

Care to elaborate on how their pvp is carebear? It's pretty simple...2v2 3v3 5v5 extremely competitive vs very skilled players - super carebear. Once again show some PvP rating then i'll believe you.

[supertouch]

you realize mmos existed before wow, right?

[Zeetofox]

you realize mmos existed before wow, right?

 

Once again, not ONE high rated arena player from wow has come forward saying they don't have this issue. SEVERAL high rated arena players from wow have come forward saying they DO have the problem. You see the trend here?

[Forsbacka]

Then it is clearly your guys' faults because i have adapted to the problem and i play around it. So stop falling into the same problem over and over and play around it and get used to it until they fix it like they said they will. But hey if they don't fix it we can just all go back to our old MMO's or w/e. Until then i see no logical reason for everyone to keep saying the same thing over and over. I run around 80 MS on a 'good' day so if i can do it, then you can with your 19 MS.

 

Its a problem for people that paly serious PvP or Pve. before the issue is fixed, this game wont have any max complex boss fights or any serious PvP.

[Forsbacka]

you realize mmos existed before wow, right?

 

 

And how was "serious" PvP on those games back then with no pro gamers and best people out of 300k subs?

[Yakito]

Yep, there people I see in one area the more delay I have.

 

So for example High Impact Bolt can start casting and then stop... and then I have to turn it on again, it sometimes takes me 4 attempts before it kicks in (Warzones), instantly adding an Instant ability after that is also a pain.

 

Try using "Tech Override" and then try to throw a heal instantly after. Most of the time it still gets casted, does not become an instant, the charge may or may not be consumed, its random.

 

And other issues, such as me casting an Advanced Probe, and in the middle of a cast I press "Medical Probe" so it gets queued, but the Advanced Probe stops casting and Medical Probe is cast instead. I mean what the hell?

 

The list is so much longer. So many many problems with the Delay. I don't know how you cannot see it. You are either very lucky or you are a bad bad player that just can't play and can't notice things like that.

 

It is not an ms issue, because I am at 40 all the time.

[supertouch]

as opposed to the millions of children who play a game that dumbed down and polished EQ's game model?

[Belkiratwo]

If you could participate in the combat, because for the first month of WoW's release it was a yo-yo it went up and down so much. If you could even login to see that the game servers were down, because the authentication servers were a mess for nearly two months after release.

 

How far are we in to the TOR release? Three weeks? Can I login and play the game, whenever I want? Oh why yes I can.

 

This revisionist history of WoW at release is getting tiresome. WoW's release was a mess, a total mess. The servers weren't completely playable and stable for nearly six months after release. Why do you think it took Blizzard six months to add Dire Maul, despite the content being done and nearly completely polished right after release? They couldn't keep the game stable.

 

I am sure in your own mind though, you are convinced that the WoW release was flawless, had no bugs, and had 2011 levels of encounter complexity from November 23rd 2004 onward.

 

I played on Shattered Hand at release and can confirm I was able to play maybe 1 week out of 4 the first month. 1+ hour queue times then crashing as soon as you login and sent to the front of the queue again. Falling though the world constantly.

 

Still combat was infinitely more polished then the current SWTOR system.