Scotchy Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Lol at spoiled MMO players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethality Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Your idea gives a bona fide advantage for time spent, this will become the norm for endgame content, in a few months / years no one who has recently started stands a chance of getting any groups in endgame fps / ops as the extra stats will be mandatory. In addition it gives an advantage in PvP which is not acceptable as it can't be obtained in any other way. Stop being so shortsighted. There would have to be a cap, if it gave a stat boost. But what about progression? What's wrong with a perpetual boost to experience/social/valor/affection/legacy points if you consistently stick to a spec? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyflames Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Oblivion was a great game. If you had the time to travel like a real RPer you walked on yer feet or by horse. If you had this quick gaming session before work you would fast travel. The choice was yours and it was always the best. I realize you can chose to but Morrowind had a great travel system put in to be used without fast travel, Oblivion does not. (see look its already started and there will probably not be a winner lol...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzsi Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Title says it all. At level 42 if i were to respec it would cost me over 100k credits. Thats seems outrageous to me (at least at this level). I LOVE to tank for groups, but as most people have noticed tanks actually do poor damage in this game when compared to others.When soloing, I know that to compensate for this you bring a dps companion. However while encountering say a double silver-double reg pull, you will most likely be popping CDs just to survive because you still take a fair amount of damage even when your in full defense gear. To counter this you would bring a healer companion... but now your taking almost 3 minutes for the same pull... If I wanted to mission faster I could go a dps spec and get things done, yet my group utility would be confined to that of a dps. Which is something that I do not care for. That puts me in a predicament where I have to stay tank and watch everyone out level me just because they can do things twice as fast. Another situation would be someone who plays pve utility (healer/tank) and likes to pvp as well. Constant respecs, or one of those aspects is going to suffer. The only logical fix to this situation if to either cap the cost of respeccing or allow players to indulge in multiple specs. There are 8 character slots, roll another character. Respecs are only supposed to be there if you accidentally make a mistake as you are leveling due to lack of knowledge of your said toon. You should never have to respec more then once in a characters lifetime - maybe twice if tweaks and changes in patches make you not like your spec any more ( although most games will reset for you when they make major changes ). Pick a spec and stick to it or roll alts for the specs you want - simple really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparckus Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 There would have to be a cap Cap or not, it gives an unfair advantage however small. But what about progression? What's wrong with a perpetual boost to experience/social/valor/affection/legacy points if you consistently stick to a spec? Don't really care about that as in all honesty it wouldn't affect me, much like dual spec wouldn't affect you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethality Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Sup You indeed do have a very valid point. Pretty sure most casual gamer are clueless of the "right" template... well at first. Then they start playing more, grouping with "more skilled" players, learn the tricks of the trade and your casual player, while still casual as not playing as many hours as more hardcore players, becomes an initiate. I would say, short term, there's no need to dual specs but in the long term it will help everyone out. Personally I'm certain, due to the current competition and speccing possibilities in others MMO, BioWare don't have the the luxury of the choice. Good of bad, soon or later they will be obliged to add dual specs and I dare even saying AC respecs. Now IMHO allowing dual specs does not makes things easier, maybe even less as you then have more choices, more gear to grind, more mess in your inventory, more skills rotation to manage, more UI layouts to set and get used to. P.S.: would you please parse the link to your other thread as search is disabled? It could definitely be a "game maturity" thing in the long run, but right now it's just too early to implement and I believe foster gameplay behavior counter to what BioWare intends. The other discussion kind of got merged in here, so I just started to introduce the idea here as well! But here is the thread: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=141452 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyflames Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 There are 8 character slots, roll another character. Respecs are only supposed to be there if you accidentally make a mistake as you are leveling due to lack of knowledge of your said toon. You should never have to respec more then once in a characters lifetime - maybe twice if tweaks and changes in patches make you not like your spec any more ( although most games will reset for you when they make major changes ). Pick a spec and stick to it or roll alts for the specs you want - simple really. I completely agree with this. If dual spec was EVER put in, it should be on a massive "I seriously have to change specs right now its an emergency" cooldown, maby once a month along with still costing you to respec (it wouldn't really be dual spec anymore though). If you can respec whenever you might as well not have specs at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethality Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 I wouldn't have a problem with it if they did, wouldn't hurt me or the game at all. Yes it most certainly would. In a game when there's already a limited number of classes, allowing people to switch between them would remove all meaning of them. At that point, you're just picking a "character" and he can be whatever. Hardly the intention of an RPG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarbonzotheDude Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 There would have to be a cap, if it gave a stat boost. But what about progression? What's wrong with a perpetual boost to experience/social/valor/affection/legacy points if you consistently stick to a spec? I still don't see why it would even be necessary, but since I doubt I would dual spec myself I suppose I should support it since I would gain from it:p Long as it is cosmetic in value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaxRendar Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 But what about progression? What's wrong with a perpetual boost to experience/social/valor/affection/legacy points if you consistently stick to a spec? I know you were responding to someone else, but I suggested/support some kind of Legacy Reward tied to maintaining a Spec. What do you think of the idea of there being an Orange Gear Set (at the very least a Chestpiece) for each Talent Tree that only unlocks after you've accumulated a certain amount of time in game as that Spec? (I realize that doesn't reward hybrid specs, but this reward can be in addition to other Legacy Rewards) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandemonic Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Yes it most certainly would. In a game when there's already a limited number of classes, allowing people to switch between them would remove all meaning of them. At that point, you're just picking a "character" and he can be whatever. Hardly the intention of an RPG. Umm no it most certainly would not. It would allow healers to take a DPS spec to be more efficient in their solo time, as well as tanks being able to do the same. It will hurt this game if people stop playing tanks/healers because they are a pain to play solo. This isn't the days of EQ1 anymore, convenience is acceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radagastimus Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 There is one good way to implement a way to be good in everything. It is in EVE skill system and it really needs skill to use all the skill you learn to play with. Now imagine it would take month to level for healer.. 2 to tank... 4 to dps.. after 7 month you would be good in all roles, right? This could be done by converting talents to time taking skill to learn like they are in eve. Another that first spec comes tradiotionally by level and other are skill books that need time to learn. Naturally they would develop on and offline so you really dont need to play all the time to learn the talents for each role... Only youd need to play to learn the skills tu yse those roles efficiently. Time needed to learn those talents would grow expotentionally by the amount of talents you allready have. This way people could have bit of pride to their learned talents as well. They could all be available in the end without need of respecs.. You just would pick the oines you want to use as keybinds are limited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varghjerta Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Umm no it most certainly would not. It would allow healers to take a DPS spec to be more efficient in their solo time, as well as tanks being able to do the same. It will hurt this game if people stop playing tanks/healers because they are a pain to play solo. This isn't the days of EQ1 anymore, convenience is acceptable. Actually that is not true Healers and tanks have a great solobility in this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethality Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Other than "it ruins my immersion" what are the burning issues that Single Spec supports feel are so important? Sages roll NEED on Double-bladed Lightsabers because the mods inside them are upgrades. People roll NEED on gear for their Companions. So "Increased Loot Drama" really doesn't cut it for me. Hardcore Operations Raid Guilds will still require optimized/focused Specs over Hybrids, so that doesn't cut it. What is the horrible consequence that has caused Single Spec adherents to be so vocal and vehement in their opposition? I'm really trying to understand... I think it can be summed up with this: the availability of dual-specs will lead to lazy game and content design. In some cases, matching the add-on scenario you described above and requiring players to comply or be excluded anyway. When designers know an option is there, and common, they will (by human nature) consider it when designing... and also human nature is to take the path of least resistance. It's easier to say "well, they can just respec for this fight if needed" than to design a fight with interest and variety that could possibly be even beaten/solved in multiple ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaxRendar Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Yes it most certainly would. In a game when there's already a limited number of classes, allowing people to switch between them would remove all meaning of them. At that point, you're just picking a "character" and he can be whatever. Hardly the intention of an RPG. Now, now Lethality... Let's not go overboard. You know the vast majority of us are only referring to having 2 Specs within the same AC, and with that functionality respeccing either of those would still incur the current in-game costs Thankfully, this game has nothing like the Paladin or Druid where a single character can assume any role in the "Holy Trinity" - we are at most talking about people having a DPS Spec in addition to either Tanking or Healing, or 2 DPS Specs, or a PvE and PvP Spec (or I guess 2 PvP Specs ). We are also talking about a game that actually increases Class Distribution problems when compared to WoW. Instead of 20% of the population needing to be a Tank/Healer for instancing, it's now increased to 25% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarbonzotheDude Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 (edited) I think it can be summed up with this: the availability of dual-specs will lead to lazy game and content design. In some cases, matching the add-on scenario you described above and requiring players to comply or be excluded anyway. What the... How in the world did you come to that conclusion? Edited January 8, 2012 by GarbonzotheDude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethality Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 You HONESTLY believe it's a good thing that it costs me Cr 200,000 a DAY just to do my Flashpoint and Warzone Heroic Daily Quests!?!?!?! You think that's good game design?!?! YES! Because that's not average gameplay. The average players, for whom the game is designed, do not typically see those kinds of mechanics at play. If players want to play on the fringe that way, every day, then don't you think there might be _something_ special they should have to do to achieve it? I know we've come to some good agreement on these issues, just playing devils advocate on this post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparckus Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 I think it can be summed up with this: the availability of dual-specs will lead to lazy game and content design. In some cases, matching the add-on scenario you described above and requiring players to comply or be excluded anyway. Exactly what you proposed with stat bonuses. Oh the hypocrisy . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draxonfly Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Actually.. Dual Spec is so wrong.... Feels like cheating to me. Or more like spoiling people who cant choose and want everything easy. If you want to tank... roll a tank. If you want to healer ... roll a healer. etc.. Whats wrong with creating 3 chars?... And if you dont want to roll 3 chars... then you have to pay for the privilege of not having to level up 2-3 chars. Sounds normal to me. Being able to create 1 char that can fill 3 rolls on the fly is not only "to easy" ... its also just plain unrealistic (yes.. i said it.. unrealistic in a fantasy game!!) But hey.. it'll probably be implemented cause there are more people wanting easy-play then there are people that want a challenge ^ agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaxRendar Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 I think it can be summed up with this: the availability of dual-specs will lead to lazy game and content design. In some cases, matching the add-on scenario you described above and requiring players to comply or be excluded anyway. When designers know an option is there, and common, they will (by human nature) consider it when designing... and also human nature is to take the path of least resistance. It's easier to say "well, they can just respec for this fight if needed" than to design a fight with interest and variety that could possibly be even beaten/solved in multiple ways. (This is not a sarcastic response!!!) Do you honestly believe the SWTOR Content Designers are not already designing Hardmode/Nightmare Encounters around "optimized" Tank and Healing Specs? I'm actually disappointed that Flashpoints on Normal Difficulty are designed around at least 1 Tank and 1 Healer being present. I think that should've been limited to Hard mode and beyond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kasanth Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 I dont really care if they have dual specs or not. I will, and always will, say a big NO to changing AC. I would say have the trainer have 1 extra spec save that saves all the set up info.This slot would be available to lvl 50s only, cost no less then 50 million, and you have to go to the trainer to switch. then make it very clear that thats as far as it goes.They will not have anymore spec saves, and they will not allow AC switching.Because we all know damn well that as soon as this is in the game. people will be on herewanting more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethality Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Why do you need to respec to do that? I have been running PvP, Flashpoints, and questing with the same spec and it seems to be working out fine.... This is exactly my point. The game is designed so it's not necessary. It's a convenience to be able to do so, and I believe there should be some sort of premium to pay for that convenience. Just like when you go to 7-11 and buy a $4 loaf of bread instead of driving 3 more miles to the grocery store and buying on for $2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zootzoot Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Not impossible at all. Resrtict to use of such slot to warzones and such and there we go. It is not like you can change spec on PVP server whenever there is enemy player approaching So I can't use my PVP spec when I'm questing on my PVP server? ...or on Illum? LOL you don't PVP do you? As I said it's impossible to implement and even if it wasnt I'm greatly opposed to separating PVP and PVE mechanics. It creates the feeling of two games which is bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruan Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Dual spec is necssary. Just remember next time you are spamming general chat for an hour for a tank/healer for your flashpoint, there's someone out there who doesn't want to pay en exhorbitant respec cost to make your group complete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethality Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Anyone against dual specs obviously does not PvP competitively. Then spec competitively for PvP and leave it alone. It will be fine in PvE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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