Every group is full of greedy ninja companion looters.

[Huskeonkel]

A "companion need" button would be useless, at least at the point where each player has companions of essentially every class. It might have some effect at lower levels, but at higher ones it would be pointless, since everyone could "companion need" on everything.

 

That might be true to a certain extent and possibly only in regards to some armor, but not as much for special weapons.

 

I have a level 22 trooper for instance. I have received two companions (apart from the ship droid) and they both use heavy armor, just like me, and both of them use Aim and Endurance, just like me.

 

I don't know the specifics of every class' companions, but apart from the trooper, who else has an assault cannon using companion?

 

I'm sure there are a bunch of cases where a class' companions won't have use of a given drop.

[ryancwn]

Lets say you get a really good piece of gear that BOTH you and your companion can use

 

Do you:

 

A) Give it to character's companion ?

 

B) Give it to main character

 

If its A) then its fine thats how you play your companion gear > your own gear

but its B) only when you're not in a party then you're a selfish pig

 

If its a huge upgrade for me, i will use it, if its a slight upgrade (about 6 rating) than I will give it to my companion. I would rather my companion have slightly better gear than me having way over gear but my companion die in 5 sec due to undergear while solo questing.

 

You need to use your head to decide on what is needed and what is not needed. Simple rules cannot help in situation like this.

 

Also, although every class will have every kind of companion but remember, most player will only use 1 or 2 companion at most. The need before greed system are base on player's sense that he only roll need on things he need (not rolling need on things he can use). Setting rule so that you can only push the button to roll on things you can use defeat the purpose.

 

Need before greed sounds good on paper but its an abomination as a loot reward system. Everybody put the same amount of works into the dungeon but this loot method denies reward for players. Even round the robin with no bound item like the old MMO seems fairer than NBG cos everybody is entitle to the loot and he can do w/e he want with the loot he got instead of everybody claiming the loot to be his own.

Edited January 5, 2012 by ryancwn

[Kunitsukami]

As horrible as it is and as much as some people are fine with it the OP is pretty much true.

[Revenaught]

If everyone is rolling for companions, maybe rolling for companions is the new normal and you are just stuck in the past?

 

It isn't ninja looting, catch up with the times.

 

This! Thank the Force someone else sees the light.

[Sephendrine]

The last 5 random groups i have gotten into have some guy rolling need on krap he cant use but his "companions" can so he needs it, then a huge fight breaks out, the group splits up game over.

 

The loot system needs to be addressed, people who use heavy armor should be the only ones who can roll need on it, the same for medium, light and weapons.

 

It's getting out of hand, the companion system is just dumb it has George Lucas written all over it,

 

A stoppid npc with bad ai does not enhance my game experience, it's a frickin Massive Multiplayer Game.

 

if you want a healer you just find a REAL PERSON to heal, or to tank, why not just make a game where only 1 guy can play on a server then everyone else is a npc with ai and you can charge them 15 bucks a month to play it, yeah thats over the edge but this is just ruining the fun.

 

and you can say just "get into a guild" but you can't always run things with just guild members and you cant even guarantee a guild member will not pull this bull krap.

 

GEORGE LUCAS needs to get the hell out of the designing of this game, and go make movies, I bet George is the reason we cant play wookies or driods in this game.

 

fix the dam loot system, who care if one quest in the level 50 zone dont work, 100% of your people are trying to have fun in groups

 

This is all utter nonsense. What can you say to it? Welcome to the world of mmorpgs? There is no mmorpg in existence that doesn't have problems with players in groups. You can't fix greed, stupidity or arrogance. Either play the game solo so you don't have to deal with jackos, join a guild and get to know a few of your fellow players to have a better experience, or suck it up.

 

To whine about the companion system, just wow. Go play one of the million other games that don't have it. You are exactly the person I wouldn't group with if you paid me: a self-obsessed whiner. And what's this tirade against George Lucas?

 

You need help.

[Jaku]

My companions are part of my character

 

You'd have a point if they weren't locked out of most of the end game content.

 

If your companion really needs epics so you can solo quest easier, specially at 50, then I'd ask you what you were doing wrong.

 

I don't see a problem while leveling up needing for a companion, because it makes the leveling easier, but doing it at level 50 just seems pointless.

[Cordelia]

Because many of you insisted it was the only reason. The rest of what you wrote is a flat-out lie. The anti-LFD group insisted up and down that this behavior doesn't exist in an MMORPG without an LFD tool. Period.

 

I'm in agreement with Caelrie here. Despite what you say Imtrick, this sort of behaviour was always the main reason (not the only one) behind their dislike of dungeon finder. As I mentioned before, i would like to know why you believe it to be the devil. I don't think it will be derailing this thread, as it is relevant to the discussion.

[Sajuto]

Wow, some people in here are ignorant as heck.

 

Personally I only roll need on items for my companions if no one else in the group needs it (Reality check; this happens quite a bit) so I'm able to keep my companion geared up through hand-me-downs and quest rewards with a few flashpoint items mixed in.

 

This assures that the flashpoint goes smoothly and that it will get done faster (Party member upgrading an item = more dps/heals/survivability = faster run) Some logical sense there right?

 

But no, people like Eldren seem to think that needing on an item to help better their companions will be better for them in the long-run. (Another reality check) It won't, guarantee in a few levels you will find a better piece of gear for your companion that you can put in there without having to worry about loot drama, sure the argument can be said that so will that other party member in the flashpoint, but who are we to know?

 

Stop being selfish greedy turds just because you want your companion to last a second longer, or do a few points extra damage. What will be more gratifying those few extra numbers of damage or the fact of knowing that you were the nice guy and didn't make several groups fall apart because of your selfishness?

 

Implement a Companion Roll between Need and Greed so that Eldren can click that for every piece of loot that drops and the people that ACTUALLY need them will roll need and get them.

 

Party Members > Your Companion

 

/end thread.

[StormDragonlord]

Following your logic, why should we even have a "Greed" button in the first place? We end up with a lot of companions, right? Ultimately, everyone would roll "Need" everything for one companion or the other.

 

Your companion didn't even contribute to the group. The other people in your group did. They helped you get through the content and down the bosses. By rolling on items for your companion without asking if someone else actually needs it for themselves, you are essentially robbing them of their opportunity to upgrade out of pure, unmitigated selfishness. You are wasting their time because you are too self-centered to even acknowledge how piggish your behavior is.

 

This. People like the one this person quoted are the problem.

 

Selfish

Self-Centered

Rude

Ninja-Looter

 

What else? Oh and the good thing is he posts it like he's right. Your companion did **** for the group and you want to give him gear over someone who helped? Yeah, you are right alright. /sarcasm

[Umbral]

Your proposed solution of letting flashpoint/op gear be restricted to PCs is deeply flawed. When my guild is running together, all good people, all friends, and no one in the group wants a specific item but someone's companion could use it, we shouldn't be able to let them have it because there's some rude people out there? You're punishing the good folks for the sake of your annoyance with the bad ones. When you run in a PUG you risk playing with people like that, that's all there is to it.

So in other words, if your not running with your guild you deserve to get screwed over by every player out there that hasn't got a smidge of common decency?

 

Simply select the reverse engineer option for anything a player character can't use and give your guild crafters the mats. You still give your "good people and good friends" stuff they can use, and you aren't making the game miserable for others.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Umbral

[Eldren]

You'd have a point if they weren't locked out of most of the end game content.

 

If your companion really needs epics so you can solo quest easier, specially at 50, then I'd ask you what you were doing wrong.

 

I don't see a problem while leveling up needing for a companion, because it makes the leveling easier, but doing it at level 50 just seems pointless.

 

I'm not talking about level 50. I'm not there yet. If companions are locked out of level 50 content, then it means I don't need a companion in that content, and it isn't an issue. While leveling, however, we require our companions. I'm going to call you a flat-out liar if you try to tell me you can get from 1-50 alone with no companion while you're questing. In fact it's a technical impossibility if you're, say, a Sith Marauder: there's a quest on Taris that requires you to make use of all your companions in order to complete it. It's built into the actual conversation cutscenes.

 

If my companion can't join me in a Flashpoint or Operation at level 50, no big deal. It doesn't mean, however, that they don't still need upgrades, as Flashpoints and Operations aren't the only things you're doing at level 50. You're finishing up Bonus Series quest chains, and you're working on finalizing things for your character while you settle into a routine and wait for new content to come out.

 

Because eventually the level cap is going to go past 50, and at that point people are going to bemoan not having equipped their companions at an appropriate level once they start leveling again.

 

I'm not going to roll Need on any item with class restrictions or alignment restrictions that I don't personally meet, because I can't use the items, nor can any of my companions. But if something drops that has no class or alignment restrictions, and it's a valid upgrade for one of my companions, then I'm rolling Need on it. Period.

[Umbral]

I'm going to call you a flat-out liar if you try to tell me you can get from 1-50 alone with no companion while you're questing. In fact it's a technical impossibility if you're, say, a Sith Marauder: there's a quest on Taris that requires you to make use of all your companions in order to complete it. It's built into the actual conversation cutscenes.

 

Except you can complete any of that content with your companion wearing greens. You don't have to screw over other players.

[ZhaneX]

It's odd that even after everyone here had played the game for several weeks that some people don't grasp that a companion is not a pet as defined by other MMOs. It is a central part of the functionality of your character... I need my tank to have good armor just as badly as I need a new blaster... it's two vital parts of the same player's needs.

[oflow]

Look, here's the bottom line: if a piece drops that's an upgrade for my companion but not for me, I'm going to roll Need on it.

 

Hell, I'll even roll Need on it if it's four players in the group. My companion needs to keep their gear updated just like I do, so their output is acceptable while I'm out questing on my own. I spend the majority of my time questing on my own. I'm in a Flashpoint for 30 minutes tops.

 

Companions are extensions of the player characters. It isn't going to change. I'm not going to roll Need on an item that requires a specific class and alignment unless I'm both of those things. But if a piece drops for, say, Jaesa (light armor with Endurance and Willpower), and it doesn't put a class or alignment requirement on it, and it's an upgrade from what she currently has in that slot, I'm going to roll Need on it.

 

I was in there, I helped down the boss, I have as much right to a piece of gear as any of the other players. It's no one else's business what I do with that gear.

 

 

This is so much garbage because your companion didnt participate in the flashpoint if you had a full group, and shows just how selfish & loot oriented the mmo crowd has become.

 

Biowares' loot system is terrible. If they really want to alleviate the problem they need to make bosses drop companion loot bags. Then you can roll need on that. But taking gear from an actual player that can use it as an upgrade and actually helped earn the gear for your stupid pet that you cant even use in raids or full groups is just obtuse.

[J-Sheridan]

sorry to say but copy wows loot system...

 

it similar to the OPs suggestion but it has better points

 

cant NEED on gear you CANT use but they give you a 2 hour time limit to trade items even if they are bind on pickup, so guild runs can still work if some1 wants a specific piece of gear that they cant use for whatever reason

 

id like to hear some1 say that this system is a bad idea

 

EVERYONE CAN USE ITEMS IN THIS GAME.

 

The only way this suggestion works is if items become CLASS locked which is completely and utterly stupid for the simple fact that requires an ENTIRE rework of the item system.

 

What part of: COMPANIONS ARE A MAJOR COMPONENT OF THE GAME do you not understand ?

 

The game is balanced around companions and getting them geared up, thus getting gear for them is as much a priority for them as they are for you.

 

A healer needs a tank companion that can actually tank with good armor.

A Tank needs a healer companion that can actually heal them with buffed stats

 

If you dont need a companion to be with you to complete content - Fair enough however that is NOT what BW designed and balanced this game around.

 

 

The solution to the stupidity of group leaders being unable to manage their own groups is simple: Remove the Need / Greed option and change it to Roll / Pass.

 

You either roll for the item or you dont. Everyone has equal chance of getting the item decided by the dice. Thats the simplest and fairest option you get.

[TheSeventhJedi]

I'm not talking about level 50. I'm not there yet. If companions are locked out of level 50 content, then it means I don't need a companion in that content, and it isn't an issue. While leveling, however, we require our companions. I'm going to call you a flat-out liar if you try to tell me you can get from 1-50 alone with no companion while you're questing. In fact it's a technical impossibility if you're, say, a Sith Marauder: there's a quest on Taris that requires you to make use of all your companions in order to complete it. It's built into the actual conversation cutscenes.

 

If my companion can't join me in a Flashpoint or Operation at level 50, no big deal. It doesn't mean, however, that they don't still need upgrades, as Flashpoints and Operations aren't the only things you're doing at level 50. You're finishing up Bonus Series quest chains, and you're working on finalizing things for your character while you settle into a routine and wait for new content to come out.

 

Because eventually the level cap is going to go past 50, and at that point people are going to bemoan not having equipped their companions at an appropriate level once they start leveling again.

 

I'm not going to roll Need on any item with class restrictions or alignment restrictions that I don't personally meet, because I can't use the items, nor can any of my companions. But if something drops that has no class or alignment restrictions, and it's a valid upgrade for one of my companions, then I'm rolling Need on it. Period.

 

I can't tell you I can level from 1-50 without a companion - but I can sure tell you I can level EASILY from 1-50 with a companion equipped in quest greens. By some of the logic in this thread, I should be able to need on everything. Even if I can't use it, even if my companion can't use it, I can sell it to get credits, which I will use to buy gear or skills, which will improve my character - so need on everything, even with a class/alignment restriction!

[Eldren]

Wow, some people in here are ignorant as heck.

 

Personally I only roll need on items for my companions if no one else in the group needs it (Reality check; this happens quite a bit) so I'm able to keep my companion geared up through hand-me-downs and quest rewards with a few flashpoint items mixed in.

 

This assures that the flashpoint goes smoothly and that it will get done faster (Party member upgrading an item = more dps/heals/survivability = faster run) Some logical sense there right?

 

But no, people like Eldren seem to think that needing on an item to help better their companions will be better for them in the long-run. (Another reality check) It won't, guarantee in a few levels you will find a better piece of gear for your companion that you can put in there without having to worry about loot drama, sure the argument can be said that so will that other party member in the flashpoint, but who are we to know?

 

Stop being selfish greedy turds just because you want your companion to last a second longer, or do a few points extra damage. What will be more gratifying those few extra numbers of damage or the fact of knowing that you were the nice guy and didn't make several groups fall apart because of your selfishness?

 

Implement a Companion Roll between Need and Greed so that Eldren can click that for every piece of loot that drops and the people that ACTUALLY need them will roll need and get them.

 

Party Members > Your Companion

 

/end thread.

 

I can't speak for how you play the game, but me, I spend most of my time in the game out questing, not running group content ad infinitum. As a result, my companion's capability becomes a meaningful issue. As a result, yes, I'm going to try to upgrade them via all available loot channels I have. That means I canvas the GTN when I can, it means I keep an eye out for quest drops that are upgrades, and it means I keep an eye out for Flashpoint drops that can upgrade them.

 

In my experience people spend most of their time in this game out questing until they're at the level cap, at which point people are running Operations most of the time, and upgrading their companions becomes a lot less meaningful. However, until they finish all the Bonus Series quests, until they finish Ilum, they still have stuff they're doing on their own, and at that point they require companions who are geared appropriate to their level in order to maintain baseline output for the content.

 

It probably won't be an issue in another couple months when a larger portion of the playerbase are at cap, have finished all their solo questing, and are working on alts (at which point the whole issue comes up again as people roll Need for BoE drops they intend to give to their alts) since they don't have anything to do with their mains until the level cap is raised or new content is released. But for right now, I'm going to suggest you change your perspective. You say players are more important than companions. I say companions are part of the player's character, and are as viable an upgrade sink as the player's character is.

[Umbral]

It's odd that even after everyone here had played the game for several weeks that some people don't grasp that a companion is not a pet as defined by other MMOs. It is a central part of the functionality of your character... I need my tank to have good armor just as badly as I need a new blaster... it's two vital parts of the same player's needs.

Your companion doesn't need to have the type of gear dropped in heroics or Flashpoints though. It can get along just fine on crafted, vendor sold, or quest reward/world dropped items.

 

The simple truth remains. You relied on the other player characters in your group to complete the Heroic or Flashpoint. Your companion did absolutely nothing to contribute to you completing that content. The player characters should get the gear, and since people are the way they are, making the gear dropped in that content for player characters only is the only way to go. Otherwise this situation is only going to keep getting worse. Ad it has been since the game went live.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Umbral

[monegames]

Except you can complete any of that content with your companion wearing greens. You don't have to screw over other players.

 

and they only have to be out for the conversations they are required for. you could play with someone else for your entire class story and not use companions once in battle.

[Eldren]

I can't tell you I can level from 1-50 without a companion - but I can sure tell you I can level EASILY from 1-50 with a companion equipped in quest greens. By some of the logic in this thread, I should be able to need on everything. Even if I can't use it, even if my companion can't use it, I can sell it to get credits, which I will use to buy gear or skills, which will improve my character - so need on everything, even with a class/alignment restriction!

 

That sounds like one of the better arguments I've seen for a Roll/Pass system to replace Need Before Greed. I think that with the existence of companions in this game, their integral necessity to the 1-50 experience, and general player attitude over loot, Roll/Pass would be an optimal loot distribution system.

 

Pistol requiring Bounty Hunter and Dark Side IV drops? Dang; I'm a Jedi Knight who's Light Side IV. I pass.

 

Pistol requiring Level 35 drops? Hey! My companion's level 36! That pistol is awesome to replace the one they're using! I roll. RNG determines who gets it amongst those who rolled.

 

Nothing could be more objective.

[imtrick]

Because many of you insisted it was the only reason. The rest of what you wrote is a flat-out lie. The anti-LFD group insisted up and down that this behavior doesn't exist in an MMORPG without an LFD tool. Period.

 

I don't know what you read, but if someone ever said that it's pretty obvious he or she was a clueless moron, and I'm surprised you'd take the time to read it.

 

No "group" ever said any such thing. You must have been hallucinating. It's blatantly obvious the not having an LFD could not possibly make everyone instantly nice, and I'll personally give you a dollar for every post you can point out that says it will (posts after this one don't count). Those of us who have played MMOs without LFD tools, whether we're for or against them in this game, know that's not true. Anyone who said any such thing would be laughed at. In short, you are lying through your teeth.

 

What you're saying is ridiculous. Links or it didn't happen.

 

(Incidentally, yes, I can see you have an agenda here that you're trying to push with your nonsensical accusations, but really, at least present arguments that don't sound like they were made up by someone off her meds.)

Edited January 5, 2012 by imtrick

[Moore]

Here is a good solution, before the group goes into a flashpoint or whatever i want you to say these words "I'm going to need roll on items for my companions." See how long before the lead kicks you out of the group, before being shunned by your fellow gamers of course.

[Eldren]

Your companion doesn't need to have the type of gear dropped in heroics or Flashpoints though. It can get along just fine on crafted, vendor sold, or quest reward/world dropped items.

 

The simple truth remains. You relied on the other player characters in your group to complete the Heroic or Flashpoint. Your companion did absolutely nothing to contribute to you completing that content. The player characters should get the gear, and since people are the way they are, making the gear dropped in that content for player characters only is the only way to go. Otherwise this situation is only going to keep getting worse. Ad it has been since the game went live.

 

If that's how you choose to gear your companions, that's just fine. No one should be able to tell you differently. It's your game, play how you like.

 

But don't think that everyone shares that perspective. I've come up against more than one quest boss in leveling content that I could only barely down with a companion, and wouldn't have been able to down even with that companion unless they'd been geared appropriate to their level (meaning geared nearly equal, if not equal, to me).

 

In short, there are those who disagree with your personal assertion that a companion only needs quest greens or vendor items. Even if they can get by with just that, there's nothing other than your personal preference saying they have to. Sometimes there are players who want their companions performing just as optimally as they are, and to do that, they need gear.

[JarenVestrit]

FIRST, putting you on ignore so I never group with you or heal you.

 

SECOND, allow me retort.

 

If we are in a four-man, your companion is not a part of your character. Period.

 

If there is a piece of gear I need to upgrade myself, and I roll greed on it, and you roll need on it, fine. That isn't what the OP is talking about.

 

If there are three Jedi Knights and I'm the only BH and an orange blaster pistol comes up, none of the three JK have any right to roll need. They do not need the item. They may want it for their companion, but is it not an upgrade for them. It is for me.

 

For you to roll need on that means now that I only have a 50% shot at it.

 

I guarantee you if I started rolling Need on lightsabers and robe armors someone would freak out. With very good reason.

 

I , for one, am VERY thankful I'm in a great guild where I don't have to deal with this nonsense. To the OP: If I could help you out I would but I doubt we're on the same server.

 

I agree. I tend to put all of the ninja-looters (that's what they are) on my ignore list. However, if they asked first, and everyone agreed, then they could roll "Need" for their companion.

[ruminate]

sorry to say but copy wows loot system...

 

It similar to the ops suggestion but it has better points

 

cant need on gear you cant use but they give you a 2 hour time limit to trade items even if they are bind on pickup, so guild runs can still work if some1 wants a specific piece of gear that they cant use for whatever reason

 

id like to hear some1 say that this system is a bad idea

 

WoW is evil!!!! Its the devil!!! Stop turning this into wow! Omgzzzzzz

 

/fear

/paranoia