Guardian useless?

[elorei]

 

The only thing where the guardian shines is in Focus specc in pvp, but i guess sentinel is better for this task...

 

Sents can't get swelling winds. Guardians make better sweep bombs for this reason alone.

 

That said, my guard is all dps, and my shadow is a tank. The shadow is just plain better as a tank from my experience. The guard is good at exploding things in focus, but in vig spec, the damage is not that great. Most people that claim it is havent played many other classes or they would notice it is underwhelming.

[Rhyne-]

I just hit 20 on my guardian and have not noticed that I'm gimped in any respect. I'm focusing on full tank spec and loving it.

 

Maybe it's because I do every mission, every bonus to those missions and am always several levels above any mob I face. As a general rule of thumb, I always do this on any character.

 

When I read or hear people complain about how underwhelming their class is, these are the first things that comes to mind. Either the player is doing it wrong and not staying up to date on armor/mods/skills or they are skipping missions and in turn are not as strong as they could be.

[elorei]

 

When I read or hear people complain about how underwhelming their class is, these are the first things that comes to mind. Either the player is doing it wrong and not staying up to date on armor/mods/skills or they are skipping missions and in turn are not as strong as they could be.

 

Say what? You are saying guardian is fine, you just have to be higher lvl than the content?

 

Really? If that is true, then you are just reinfocing what others are saying. Can a guardian solo kill a champion that is higher lvl than he is? Other classes can.

 

The easiest way to fix guard? (or pretty much tanks that actually go for tank geat, which no one really does for pvp because of the way it works) is to fix how shields and/or defense works.

 

Can't defend or shield against critical hits or ANY tech/force abilities. This makes both stats almost worthless in pvp. Sure, there are some nasty ranged/melee attacks, like master strike/ravage, spinning strike, etc. But tracer missiles, lightning, exhaustion, etcetcetc....no defense stats kick in. Change this one thing and people might actually start wearing shields in pvp again, tanks might actually have a place. Until then, why not go full DPS? And if you are going to do that, why play the tank in the first place?

[Rhyne-]

Say what? You are saying guardian is fine, you just have to be higher lvl than the content?

 

Why would you ever not be above the level of content? Unless you are totally inept or utterly lazy.

[Loendar]

Why would you ever not be above the level of content? Unless you are totally inept or utterly lazy.

 

I think his point is that you shouldn't have to be higher level to the content to do it. Other classes don't have that issue.

 

In any event - I had to fight to not grey everything out as I was leveling and entirely skipped Quesh because of it.

[Rhyne-]

I think his point is that you shouldn't have to be higher level to the content to do it. Other classes don't have that issue.

 

In any event - I had to fight to not grey everything out as I was leveling and entirely skipped Quesh because of it.

 

I see where you're coming from.

 

I leveled PT to 50 and never had a problem, but I can see some issues with Guardian tanking compared to PT/Vanguard.

[Neztul]

I have a level 50 Guardian, tank spec, and it has been a struggle with this guy, though I solo'd my way thru 95% of all the content minus flashpoints and heroics to 50 I am left with a major disappointment when I reached level 50.

 

The Guardian struggles for inital agro in group environments, in FPs, and Heroics, when you have high dps classes, and multiple target pulls. With the taunts being on such a long cooldown and too few UI tools to enable ease of assiting off tanks and the Zerg style play the powerfull dps classes develop during their leveling.

 

The guardian also is one of the few classes that does not get a "healer" compainion until much later in the content than other classes. Which led me to struggle until I earned Doc as a companion. I think the only reason I was able to accomplish some of the solo harder content at level was because of the countless hours spent collecting datacron bonuses (39 of them) and hours working crewskills (on main and alts) to maximize gear and weapons for both myself and companions. which seems unfair when listening to guildies and other players talk smack when I would ask for help on class quests, and other things they gloat about being able to solo.

 

The Guardian needs to be balanced with the other classes especially the tank spec to solo. I eneded up doing was building my tank talents in a way to maintain my tanking abilities but add additional tree points into the guardian DPS trees to increase my dps ratings then once I hit 50 reset my talents to build my tank spec for heroics and HM FPs. If it was not for Doc as a compainion and gearing him with "player" gear to max his stats it made soloing difficult comparied to my trooper commando healer also now 50. The fights with guardian last longer, and you have no CC or quick interupts when confronted with multiple healing mobs (Enemy NPC), you can only hope you can down the healers before you become overwhelmed.

 

My Suggestions for guardians is first reduce the CD on taunts and threat generation and increase the threat built during combat. Add or reduce the CD on interupts and/or CC allowing the soloing guardian the abilities to handle multi-target encounters. Or reconstruct the talent tree points required per tier of the tree to obtain the upper tiers of the main spec trees and allow the options to put points into the secondary trees to increase dps, and survivibility when soloing. For example, only require one talent per tier needing to be "maxed" to allow the next tier of the tree to be available. This would allow all classes the ability to personalize their builds to their play style or improve weaknesses in their character.

 

At level 50, on Ilum soloing, the Jedi Guardian is faced with multi-target pulls, PVP interference, knockbacks, patrolling adds, and respawn timers that are so quick, it makes completing an objective take longer than the other classes if they are lucky enough to survive them.

 

While questing on Corellia at level 48, where I was faced with multiple healers on npc pulls, reaching some of the intial quest areas I would no sooner get to the next pull towards the objective when the mobs behind me would start respawning. In addition to the pathing Elites, that sometimes would add into the combat pulls due to the amount of time needed to kill one usually ended up with a quick death. I eneded up suiciding my way to the objective by passing the mobs to reach my objective and when dying trying to get back out returning to the med center to continue with the quest.

 

The short version of this comment, I agree the Guardian is in serious need of being balanced to be a worthwhile class to play along side of the other class, advance class players out there.

[Veillantif]

Having played to lv50 with a guardian I can definitely see some areas for improvement.

 

Most notably that unless you are very careful they just roll over and die to ranged classes in pvp (though pvp as a whole still has kinks to work out, it happens with a new game).

 

That being said, The guardian is a lot of fun to play, and very strong in PvE settings.

 

The tanky version doesn't have the versatility of the vanguard, but they can just absorb damage all day long.

 

the middle/shien tree makes for some tricky mob fights, but done right their survivability mixed with their 1v1 damage makes them excellent boss killers.

 

And the right side tree is all kinds of disruptive to enemies in pve and pvp.

 

All in all, they are going to need some tweeking (but so will all the classes). But they are FAR from useless.

[Loendar]

I have a level 50 Guardian, tank spec, and it has been a struggle with this guy, though I solo'd my way thru 95% of all the content minus flashpoints and heroics to 50 I am left with a major disappointment when I reached level 50.

 

The Guardian struggles for inital agro in group environments, in FPs, and Heroics, when you have high dps classes, and multiple target pulls. With the taunts being on such a long cooldown and too few UI tools to enable ease of assiting off tanks and the Zerg style play the powerfull dps classes develop during their leveling.

 

The guardian also is one of the few classes that does not get a "healer" compainion until much later in the content than other classes. Which led me to struggle until I earned Doc as a companion. I think the only reason I was able to accomplish some of the solo harder content at level was because of the countless hours spent collecting datacron bonuses (39 of them) and hours working crewskills (on main and alts) to maximize gear and weapons for both myself and companions. which seems unfair when listening to guildies and other players talk smack when I would ask for help on class quests, and other things they gloat about being able to solo.

 

The Guardian needs to be balanced with the other classes especially the tank spec to solo. I eneded up doing was building my tank talents in a way to maintain my tanking abilities but add additional tree points into the guardian DPS trees to increase my dps ratings then once I hit 50 reset my talents to build my tank spec for heroics and HM FPs. If it was not for Doc as a compainion and gearing him with "player" gear to max his stats it made soloing difficult comparied to my trooper commando healer also now 50. The fights with guardian last longer, and you have no CC or quick interupts when confronted with multiple healing mobs (Enemy NPC), you can only hope you can down the healers before you become overwhelmed.

 

My Suggestions for guardians is first reduce the CD on taunts and threat generation and increase the threat built during combat. Add or reduce the CD on interupts and/or CC allowing the soloing guardian the abilities to handle multi-target encounters. Or reconstruct the talent tree points required per tier of the tree to obtain the upper tiers of the main spec trees and allow the options to put points into the secondary trees to increase dps, and survivibility when soloing. For example, only require one talent per tier needing to be "maxed" to allow the next tier of the tree to be available. This would allow all classes the ability to personalize their builds to their play style or improve weaknesses in their character.

 

At level 50, on Ilum soloing, the Jedi Guardian is faced with multi-target pulls, PVP interference, knockbacks, patrolling adds, and respawn timers that are so quick, it makes completing an objective take longer than the other classes if they are lucky enough to survive them.

 

While questing on Corellia at level 48, where I was faced with multiple healers on npc pulls, reaching some of the intial quest areas I would no sooner get to the next pull towards the objective when the mobs behind me would start respawning. In addition to the pathing Elites, that sometimes would add into the combat pulls due to the amount of time needed to kill one usually ended up with a quick death. I eneded up suiciding my way to the objective by passing the mobs to reach my objective and when dying trying to get back out returning to the med center to continue with the quest.

 

The short version of this comment, I agree the Guardian is in serious need of being balanced to be a worthwhile class to play along side of the other class, advance class players out there.

 

This is a very accurate and astute statement on Guardians and their current role. As a level 50 Defense Guardian I can support the items mentioned and the challenges as well.

[kbstealer]

I have a level 50 Guardian, tank spec, and it has been a struggle with this guy, though I solo'd my way thru 95% of all the content minus flashpoints and heroics to 50 I am left with a major disappointment when I reached level 50.

 

The Guardian struggles for inital agro in group environments, in FPs, and Heroics, when you have high dps classes, and multiple target pulls. With the taunts being on such a long cooldown and too few UI tools to enable ease of assiting off tanks and the Zerg style play the powerfull dps classes develop during their leveling.

 

The guardian also is one of the few classes that does not get a "healer" compainion until much later in the content than other classes. Which led me to struggle until I earned Doc as a companion. I think the only reason I was able to accomplish some of the solo harder content at level was because of the countless hours spent collecting datacron bonuses (39 of them) and hours working crewskills (on main and alts) to maximize gear and weapons for both myself and companions. which seems unfair when listening to guildies and other players talk smack when I would ask for help on class quests, and other things they gloat about being able to solo.

 

The Guardian needs to be balanced with the other classes especially the tank spec to solo. I eneded up doing was building my tank talents in a way to maintain my tanking abilities but add additional tree points into the guardian DPS trees to increase my dps ratings then once I hit 50 reset my talents to build my tank spec for heroics and HM FPs. If it was not for Doc as a compainion and gearing him with "player" gear to max his stats it made soloing difficult comparied to my trooper commando healer also now 50. The fights with guardian last longer, and you have no CC or quick interupts when confronted with multiple healing mobs (Enemy NPC), you can only hope you can down the healers before you become overwhelmed.

 

My Suggestions for guardians is first reduce the CD on taunts and threat generation and increase the threat built during combat. Add or reduce the CD on interupts and/or CC allowing the soloing guardian the abilities to handle multi-target encounters. Or reconstruct the talent tree points required per tier of the tree to obtain the upper tiers of the main spec trees and allow the options to put points into the secondary trees to increase dps, and survivibility when soloing. For example, only require one talent per tier needing to be "maxed" to allow the next tier of the tree to be available. This would allow all classes the ability to personalize their builds to their play style or improve weaknesses in their character.

 

At level 50, on Ilum soloing, the Jedi Guardian is faced with multi-target pulls, PVP interference, knockbacks, patrolling adds, and respawn timers that are so quick, it makes completing an objective take longer than the other classes if they are lucky enough to survive them.

 

While questing on Corellia at level 48, where I was faced with multiple healers on npc pulls, reaching some of the intial quest areas I would no sooner get to the next pull towards the objective when the mobs behind me would start respawning. In addition to the pathing Elites, that sometimes would add into the combat pulls due to the amount of time needed to kill one usually ended up with a quick death. I eneded up suiciding my way to the objective by passing the mobs to reach my objective and when dying trying to get back out returning to the med center to continue with the quest.

 

The short version of this comment, I agree the Guardian is in serious need of being balanced to be a worthwhile class to play along side of the other class, advance class players out there.

 

i'd just like to add that if you guys get the buffs you want for the guardian, those of us like me who find the class amazing are gonna be gods. please please please keep whining till i get buffed to ridiculous levels and then get us nerfed back to where we started.

 

I think you guys are doing something wrong if you're having this much trouble. either you are undergeared, your companion is undergeared or you just dont understand how to actually use the abilites the class gives us. I have no issues in pve or pvp (cept for powertechs, **** powertechs, i cant touch them and they eat me alive in 1v1 fights).

 

the only pve that gave me ANY trouble was the last class quest to kill the emp. that took me 4 tries to complete and when i did, i had over 80% hp left when i finished. my problem wasnt an undergeared companion (my t7 was in lvl 14-17 gear), it was my bad tactics and positioning.

 

In closing, please keep whining for guardian buffs so i can finally kill everyone 1v1 including powertechs.

[Loendar]

i'd just like to add that if you guys get the buffs you want for the guardian, those of us like me who find the class amazing are gonna be gods. please please please keep whining till i get buffed to ridiculous levels and then get us nerfed back to where we started.

 

I think you guys are doing something wrong if you're having this much trouble. either you are undergeared, your companion is undergeared or you just dont understand how to actually use the abilites the class gives us. I have no issues in pve or pvp (cept for powertechs, **** powertechs, i cant touch them and they eat me alive in 1v1 fights).

 

the only pve that gave me ANY trouble was the last class quest to kill the emp. that took me 4 tries to complete and when i did, i had over 80% hp left when i finished. my problem wasnt an undergeared companion (my t7 was in lvl 14-17 gear), it was my bad tactics and positioning.

 

In closing, please keep whining for guardian buffs so i can finally kill everyone 1v1 including powertechs.

 

Interesting take on things. I have no problem playing my class up to and including the final class quest, so your assertion is false on its face.

 

Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean that it is efficient or on par with others doing the same thing. Anyone that has played other classes past the initial phase can see the disparities between this class and those. Even the mirrored class on the Imperial side is far away easier (though some similar issues) to manage than this one.

 

If you think you have it 'easy mode' on your Guardian all I can say is you haven't tried pretty much any other class. The others are a joke compared to the management and lack of versatility that the Guardian currently has to deal with.

 

In short - it isn't whining when one class (or maybe a couple if you count our other Adv class/mirror) is so hard to manage compared to classes that are supposed to fill the same role. Maybe you enjoy hopping around like a bunny on crack just to keep aggro off your DPS .. OR, more likely - you just let them manage for yourself and think everything is just fine because most of the time they don't die.

 

It is entirely possible that YOU aren't playing the class the way it was intended (if you are a tank your goal should be to stop others from taking dmg, even if they can take it) and that is why you are happy with the status quo.

 

TL;DR: You are a minority in thinking everything is hunky dory with the class. Even BW acknowledges that it needs fixing.

[kbstealer]

Interesting take on things. I have no problem playing my class up to and including the final class quest, so your assertion is false on its face.

 

Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean that it is efficient or on par with others doing the same thing. Anyone that has played other classes past the initial phase can see the disparities between this class and those. Even the mirrored class on the Imperial side is far away easier (though some similar issues) to manage than this one.

 

If you think you have it 'easy mode' on your Guardian all I can say is you haven't tried pretty much any other class. The others are a joke compared to the management and lack of versatility that the Guardian currently has to deal with.

 

In short - it isn't whining when one class (or maybe a couple if you count our other Adv class/mirror) is so hard to manage compared to classes that are supposed to fill the same role. Maybe you enjoy hopping around like a bunny on crack just to keep aggro off your DPS .. OR, more likely - you just let them manage for yourself and think everything is just fine because most of the time they don't die.

 

It is entirely possible that YOU aren't playing the class the way it was intended (if you are a tank your goal should be to stop others from taking dmg, even if they can take it) and that is why you are happy with the status quo.

 

TL;DR: You are a minority in thinking everything is hunky dory with the class. Even BW acknowledges that it needs fixing.

 

so you dont have trouble, so you arent who i was talkn about. you're like me and will be godly if we get buffed, good for you.

 

i never said i had it 'easy mode' i said that i think the class is amazing because of what i can do with it. that others cannot do what i can doesnt mean the class is bad, especially since there are no macros so its not like i'm hitting less keys to be more effective.

 

your next claim is that even BW says the class needs a buff. the only reason they would be saying that is because the customers who play said class keep whining about it and bw is trying to shut them up. to me, this is going to cause me to become even more powerful while the majority becomes average.

 

i have played all other tanks (50 sin was first toon i made, 50 guardian second, working on vanguard now) i agree that tanking on sin and van is a little easier, but a sin is not mobile like i am and a van cannot control people like my guardian can. different classes are different even if their stated goal is the same.

 

in closing i'll repeat, thanks for whining so hard that a good class is now getting buffed which will in turn make all of us guardians who dont suck that much better.

[GarfieldJL]

For those that are claiming how good they are as Guardians, I'm going to be perfectly blunt.

 

You'd probably be piledriving people a lot more with other classes using half the effort.

 

 

Vanguard is quite simply a better tank than a guardian period, they actually from what I've heard get certain boosts to their armor in their skill tree (if someone would like to confirm that cause I don't feel like looking at the moment (though I have observed they seem less vulnerable to certain types of attacks which punch through my defenses compared to when a vanguard gets hit with a similar attack).

 

 

To be blunt all a ranged class has to do when facing us is run backward and spam their basic ranged attack. We may get hits in here and there but other than that, we end up in real trouble real fast.

Edited February 16, 2012 by GarfieldJL

[Phobosgr]

Jug here....but I am lvling a sentinel so dont call me intruder or anything

 

 

I was reading page...1 i think and I guy was complaing that with tanking spec he cant kill ppl in pvp....well...sorry mate but you are doing it wrong!

 

1) Being a tnak in PVP doesnt mean you will kill everyone and you will never die, taunt enemies,guard and help finish enemies...thats the way to go.

 

2)DPS in PVP , i am vengeance atm no idea how its called for jedis, but not the focus so its the other one. you will never do the DPS you are intended to do not until you get the two attacks from the spec tree. So have patience thats all. Its really rewarding after you get them. Trust me

 

Thats my humble opinion

[mandaboo]

Leveld vanguard and Jedi guardian. Both work. Jedi requires you to keep your gear more current. Jedi is harder to level in pvp and pve as dps. Period end of story. Both work Jedi is weaker. Not much 10% maybe

[Siorac]

Even the mirrored class on the Imperial side is far away easier (though some similar issues) to manage than this one.

 

I have a level 50 Guardian and a level 33 Juggernaut, both tanks. The final boss of Act I could not be more different for the two: with my Guardian it required concentration, well-timed interrupts and CD management. With my Juggernaut it was "hahahaha you can't kill me noob" time, I had time to dance around him with the UI switched off, taking screenshots.

 

It's not just that the class itself is somewhat inferior to Troopers/BH or Sages/Sorcs but the JK class quest is probably the hardest in the game. At the level 24 quest, I had to face like a few Strong mobs on my Jugg; with the Guardian, I had to fight Valis...

[inhumator]

I figured that many players complain about pvp. In my opinion pvp games (not open pvp) are quite similar to pve - most important is co-op play. I am sage (healer spec) and figured that many pvp games are lost to Republic because Imps are more organised and working together - which often doesn't in Republic team.

 

Some players here complain they cannot kill someone as tank - neither I can as healer. My function is to heal and support other players, so do I, and I've saved many allied asses in pvp which is appreciated by those players (MVP points and personal thanks on ops chat).

 

So, stop complaining that tank or heal can't be good dps - they're not supposed to be - and play your role:)

Edited February 18, 2012 by inhumator

[davkei]

Leveling a guardian isnt the easiest class to level up. But where is the fun if it is all easy? As for pve and pvp play your role and learn how to play it.

[Sepulcheral]

The problem is that guardians are neither a viable tank or dps come endgame. I have a 50 guardian on Jedi Covenant server and i do extremely well in pvp usually topping medals and damage (i am a dps guardian). However, for raiding and flashpoints and all pve content at endgame its just stupid not to run a powertech/vanguard as tank... stack gunslingers/snipers and use sages/sorcerors for heals (you can possibly replace sage/sorc with commando/mercenary for backup heals). Its just some classes are far more useful than others come endgame. Another good example is operative/scoundrel who get gimped at endgame for everything but pug pvp.

[SaveVsDeath]

My Guardian is level 20, and Defense tree. I am running around with Kira on DPS while I tank. I am spanking everything I come into contact with in the solo content. I have also been grouping with a Seer, and we've been able to take 4 man Heroics with just the two of us. I'm not having any trouble with this character, and I've never bought any gear. It's all dropped stuff or mission rewards.

 

Sometimes I have to use a defensive cooldown or maybe a medpac, but that's what they're there for. Mind your rotation, use your companion, and think your way through a combat. It's not what I'd call simple, but it's certainly not getting in the way of success.

 

Maybe the other trees are not working well, but Defense + Kira on DPS at level 20 is quite strong.

 

What this guy said. My guardian is 21, and I haven't had any trouble tanking since I got Soresu Form. My gear is oranges with reasonably up-to-date mods, and a few random pieces from quests and mob drops. I have never had anyone complain about my tanking in Heroics or Flashpoints thus far, though I will admit Guardian tanking requires that you really pay attention and know what you're doing. The biggest mistakes i've made that have caused me to wipe are not taking down healers first, not using my cooldowns enough, and trying to hold aggro on every single mob. Tanks in this game are simply not meant to hold aggro on every single mob in the fight, they should be focusing on the most dangerous ones/any targeting the healer and leaving the weaklings for the DPS to either kill or CC.

[shaymus]

Not at all, and I'll tell you why. The mistake you and the people with whom you share your opinion are making is that difficulty is not the root of the issue. When you talk about difficulty in a game like Demon's Souls you're talking about the difficulty in attaining shear skill and technique, but when you talk about difficulty in regards to Guardian you're talking about making up for lack of class effectiveness through optimisation. While to 2 might seem the same they're not, as you're going to eventually hit a wall with Guardian where no matter how much you've optimized you'll never be able to accomplish that which another, more powerful, class can.

 

Guardians are not unplayable but they are certainly underpowered and mind numbingly boring. This becomes increasingly more obvious the more you play other classes.

 

It is my opinion that those who can't admit this is true either have an agenda (looket me im so awesome i can play guardian and be awesome but you're bad) or just plain Bioware fanboys.

 

Excellent point sir! Read my mind.