First Responder vs. Weapon Calibrations

[Chaos_FTW]

Here's my spec : http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#800Mc0MZMIkrRMdokfzZc.1

 

My question is, which is better? First Responder or Weapon Calibrations? I have seen much discussion on the forums and referring to alacrity as being an overall poor stat for Commandos, but I see a lot of Commandos speccing one of two ways. I wanted to see if 50 Commandos have noticed a near 100% uptime on First Responder. If not, it would seem that Weapon Calibrations, with a 1% less but 100% uptime talent would be superior.

 

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

[Fuinir]

At lower levels, the 4% will be better. However, since many of our specs seem to want godly amounts of crit, First Responder will get better with gear. I know all of the gear I take has crit on it (or involve me changing some of the mods to favor crit).

 

Unless you're healing. Then crit isn't quite as good.

[JLapp]

At lower levels, the 4% will be better. However, since many of our specs seem to want godly amounts of crit, First Responder will get better with gear. I know all of the gear I take has crit on it (or involve me changing some of the mods to favor crit).

 

Unless you're healing. Then crit isn't quite as good.

 

You don't really need godly amounts of crit since hammer shot hits 3 times the chances of getting a crit even at 25% crit chance are enough that it will just about always be up.

[Chaos_FTW]

Is our critical chance high enough with the current end game gear to enable a 100% uptime on the buff? If not it then becomes a question as to what the actual percentage becomes when you don't have 100% uptime. i.e the total uptime throughout an extended fight.

[Chaos_FTW]

Still looking for a 50 Commando for a view-point on this matter. Really looking for data on the uptime of the buff.

[JLapp]

I'm just starting to gear for the hard mode flashpoints and I have about 36% crit (without the scoundrals buff).

 

I won't say I pay a lot of attention to when it is up or not but if it isn't 100% it is awfully close to it.

[Pokeytehpenguin]

4% at all times is better than 5% with a chance to fall off, even if normal up-times are at or close to 100%.

 

that being said, alacrity is so close to worthless (for DPS ) that it makes the difference in choice mathematically insignificant.

[Chaos_FTW]

4% at all times is better than 5% with a chance to fall off, even if normal up-times are at or close to 100%.

 

that being said, alacrity is so close to worthless (for DPS ) that it makes the difference in choice mathematically insignificant.

 

Very true. I didn't think about it from that aspect, just purely from a min/max perspective.

[MatchlessGlory]

Both those talents are worthless for dps. For healing they aren't bad though since I have got our larger heal down to 1.65 secs.

[Chaos_FTW]

Both those talents are worthless for dps. For healing they aren't bad though since I have got our larger heal down to 1.65 secs.

 

From a complete min/max DPS standpoint can you comment on optional talents to take? Would you recommend different talents that yield more PVE utility?

[PaxFelix]

Tarkus atm is at 34, not yet 50, but I've been an avid reader of various calculations (not just opinions) on the gunnery spec since beta. One of the best discussions is here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=117042

 

Constant attention to ammo management is key for us. One good crit is better than the marginal gain in rapidity given by alacrity, without the faster burn of ammo that will follow if we then take advantage of that increased haste.

 

Tenacious Defense is Highly Recommended, and I would say Soldier's Endurance and Cover Fire are worth our consideration for survivability.

 

RE: Soldier's Endurance: Yes, it's 1/2/3%, but those augmentations are passive, done, in place, not HoT, and with no need to press a button. I'm not saying it's mandatory, just worth considering.

 

FWIW, Tarkus' spec is here: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#800McZMIkrRrdkzfzZc.1. Kolto Recharge is unpopular for many of our trooper colleagues, mainly because 10 seconds can be a pretty long time if you're starting to hear the Grim Reaper in a fight. Tarkus has one point in Cover Fire, which even at 34 he's found useful, but that could go to Kolto Recharge depending on play style. He prefers to slow his opponents rather than need rescuing, but he has these control Issues along with other emotional baggage.

Edited January 5, 2012 by PaxFelix

[Chaos_FTW]

Tarkus atm is at 34, not yet 50, but I've been an avid reader of various calculations (not just opinions) on the gunnery spec since beta. One of the best discussions is here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=117042

 

Constant attention to ammo management is key for us. One good crit is better than the marginal gain in rapidity given by alacrity, without the faster burn of ammo that will follow if we then take advantage of that increased haste.

 

Tenacious Defense is Highly Recommended, and I would say Soldier's Endurance and Cover Fire are worth our consideration for survivability.

 

RE: Soldier's Endurance: Yes, it's 1/2/3%, but those augmentations are passive, done, in place, not HoT, and with no need to press a button. I'm not saying it's mandatory, just worth considering.

 

FWIW, Tarkus' spec is here: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#800McZMIkrRrdkzfzZc.1. Kolto Recharge is unpopular for many of our trooper colleagues, mainly because 10 seconds can be a pretty long time if you're starting to hear the Grim Reaper in a fight. Tarkus has one point in Cover Fire, which even at 34 he's found useful, but that could go to Kolto Recharge depending on play style. He prefers to slow his opponents rather than need rescuing, but he has these control Issues along with other emotional baggage.

 

 

Thank you for the information. Seems as though there are definitely some viable options that could be chosen over the lackluster alacrity talents.

 

I would love to see some data on the usefulness of cover fire in a PVE situation. My main question would be what is the percentage of mobs that can actually be slowed in a "raid boss" encounter. If that number is relatively low, then I would say that is a lackluster talent to put a point into.

 

I also see the indifference to Kolto Recharge, but I still believe it could prove useful in a fight in which you can foresee oncoming raid-wide damage.

 

Tenacious Defense is also interesting for the decrease in the cool down for Tenacity, but I feel that in a PVE setting the cooldown reduction to Concussion Charge could be equated to the Elemental Shaman's Tunderstorm (a talent that most tanks loathe in a PVE setting.) Although SWTOR could prove that this talent is more viable than its WoW counterpart.

 

Soldier's Endurance would probably be the next talent I am leaning towards. A straight endurance buff through a talent would probably yield some decent survivability in progression raiding.

 

(Please excuse the WoW references in the above post lol)

[Pokeytehpenguin]

Even from a strict min-max standpoint, the different gains are so small you can really just chose where to put those last 4-6 points based on personal preference.

 

I plan to use this link ( also plan to pvp moderately)

 

Looking at my build, if you wanted to take 2 out of gunnery I would remove concussive force, which is an amazing pvp ability (read overpowered) but very situational for pve.

 

 

I would claim cover fire is a weaker choice compared to tenacious defense, weapon calibration, or even concussive force. Even if a Mob could be slowed, there are much more reliable solutions.

 

I would also highly suggest heavy trooper, especially if you go biochem (the best crafting choice by far)

Edited January 5, 2012 by Pokeytehpenguin

[Chaos_FTW]

I definitely agree with heavy trooper. Coupled with Biochem's medpacs it could be a great buff to chose.

 

On another note, I appreciate all the constructive feedback within this thread. It's nice to see people who can actively discuss a theoretical topic and not scream fact/theorycrafting. Too many topics on these forums are being taken as fact at this point...

[konoei]

Here's my spec : http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#800Mc0MZMIkrRMdokfzZc.1

 

My question is, which is better? First Responder or Weapon Calibrations? I have seen much discussion on the forums and referring to alacrity as being an overall poor stat for Commandos, but I see a lot of Commandos speccing one of two ways. I wanted to see if 50 Commandos have noticed a near 100% uptime on First Responder. If not, it would seem that Weapon Calibrations, with a 1% less but 100% uptime talent would be superior.

 

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

 

personally i chose first responder over weapon calibrations, this is from a combat medic.

 

personally, heal spells we have are 2s and 1.5s for probes and others are all instant.

20% speed increase is like... 1.6s and 1.2s respectively. to me it is not much of an improvement.

 

at max, weapon calibration give 4% iirc, and responder is 5%. i went with crit/surge with my crit now nearly 40%. with this, my crit rate is pretty high such that first responder is nearly a constant buff, this mean i have a near constant buff of 5% alacrity. so with a high crit rate, first responder is always on me and there is no point in getting weapon calibration for me.

[Chaos_FTW]

personally i chose first responder over weapon calibrations, this is from a combat medic.

 

personally, heal spells we have are 2s and 1.5s for probes and others are all instant.

20% speed increase is like... 1.6s and 1.2s respectively. to me it is not much of an improvement.

 

at max, weapon calibration give 4% iirc, and responder is 5%. i went with crit/surge with my crit now nearly 40%. with this, my crit rate is pretty high such that first responder is nearly a constant buff, this mean i have a near constant buff of 5% alacrity. so with a high crit rate, first responder is always on me and there is no point in getting weapon calibration for me.

 

 

While I agree with your math, it seems to me that we have come to a pseudo agreement that there are other talents to take, other than those that boost alacrity, that give better PVE viability.

[JLapp]

personally i chose first responder over weapon calibrations, this is from a combat medic.

 

personally, heal spells we have are 2s and 1.5s for probes and others are all instant.

20% speed increase is like... 1.6s and 1.2s respectively. to me it is not much of an improvement.

 

at max, weapon calibration give 4% iirc, and responder is 5%. i went with crit/surge with my crit now nearly 40%. with this, my crit rate is pretty high such that first responder is nearly a constant buff, this mean i have a near constant buff of 5% alacrity. so with a high crit rate, first responder is always on me and there is no point in getting weapon calibration for me.

 

I have both of them. Only thing close to as useful that I could see move those points to is 4% damage reduction and for PVE I don't see us taking enough damage for that to really be worth it.

[beejlee]

Question I have I guess is: Does it add 5% to your alacrity % activation speed bonus? Or does it add 4% to your alacrity value?

[gluefoot]

First responder is trash if you are dps. As well as Weapons Calibrations. Alacrity is a healer stat, and you don't get any in endgame dps commando gear.

 

So put it into something else.

[Vaspyre]

As an assault spec alacrity is great. We dont rely on crits to gain ammo, just high impact pops. I throw all my instants on the target then kite with hammer shot, throw in full auto to pop hib and repeat. With enough alacrity you can lower gcd a bit getting those instants and hammer shot off more.

[Daeson]

Hey thanks for the thread bump, still work to be done.

 

Right now, At 42% raid buffed crit and 85ish surge, I can tell you that gaining the 9% haste from those talents would **** up my regen and rotation horribly. At zero haste grav round at my level crit is basically free, unless its karga or gharj and i need to aoe heavily out side of normal, I can't spend ammo fast enough to even get close to the point of going low. Haste, would ruin that, as you'd be casting above the regen ticks, and you want to cast below them.

[LordKivlov]

Hey thanks for the thread bump, still work to be done.

 

Right now, At 42% raid buffed crit and 85ish surge, I can tell you that gaining the 9% haste from those talents would **** up my regen and rotation horribly. At zero haste grav round at my level crit is basically free, unless its karga or gharj and i need to aoe heavily out side of normal, I can't spend ammo fast enough to even get close to the point of going low. Haste, would ruin that, as you'd be casting above the regen ticks, and you want to cast below them.

 

You must have a bad rotation if you can't spend it quickly enough. Even with 35 (50% on grav round) chance to crit, free HIB, I can run myself out of ammo without a couple hammershots thrown in at key points in the rotation.

[juhalanz]

As far as i know alacrity do not effect GDC. Can be a bit usefull to cast a bit faster for gunnery.

Totaly worthless for AS.

[Daeson]

With every other or both of my Grav rounds being free cast, FA resupplying its self, energy cell, recharge, and slamming grav after grav with few to no hammer shots, yes, its hard to run out of ammo.

[LordKivlov]

With every other or both of my Grav rounds being free cast, FA resupplying its self, energy cell, recharge, and slamming grav after grav with few to no hammer shots, yes, its hard to run out of ammo.

 

Every third GCD you get a chance to have a 1 ammo cheaper grav round. It doesn't make it free, it refunds 1 of the 2 ammo. Cell charger helps, but it doesn't make ammo a trivial issue. You're not doing something right if you have unlimited ammo without hammershotting. You don't need to HS often, but you do need to. I have over 50% chance to crit with grav round incase you're going to try and dismiss my point on that.

Edited January 22, 2012 by LordKivlov