Why this game will end up like rift.

[DarthKhaos]

Seriously, they could have saved a ton of money by only voice acting class quests and flashpoints/ops(maybe Heroic quests also). I'm bringing up an alt and skip through pretty much everything that isn't class related since I've already seen it.

 

YOU skip through it. I don't. And yes even the 10th time through I still kick back and listen to the well done voice acting. That's MY choice. Don't wish for that to be taken away because YOU don't want it. You an skip through ALL YOU want. I'll skip when I feel like it and listen when I don't.

[Zeppelin]

because ppl like you jump from one mmo to the next and will never be satisfied. thats why it will be the next rift.

 

This.

[TheBobaPhatt]

you guys truly live in a dreamworld... comparing a launch from 2004 with a launch from 2011... go grow up - get a leading position in a company that has competition - after that you see prolly you are talking squat

 

this game is going to fail in lightspeed and is indeed not lightyears ahead of wow, face the truth fanbois - and i don´t even like wow anymore

Then why are you still here?

[uadarth]

Rifts mass exodus came from bowing down to the playerbase and requests. Much of what they were whining about was given to them by Trion and in the end, no one stayed because it became 'just like WoW'. These changes were: Dual Spec, Server Transfers, LFG tools, PVP stuff, and everything else being demanded on these boards. Trion gave it all to them, and in the end, they all just went back to WoW where they were already established.

 

It was so close of a WoW clone, the people realized: Why am I fighting to become uber in a clone of the game I'm already uber? Trion made many mistakes in the first month, mistakes I haven't seen BioWare repeat, nor would I expect them to. I'm not the type that says: I'm here till they do 'XXX', I'm here for entertainment, and I can't honestly say how or when that entertainment value would end. At this time, I can forsee things that may take away from my entertainment value, but it would come from abuse of changes, not so much the changes themselves. I know gamers are a fickle lot and will guaranteed abuse the ruleset handed to them.

 

Giving in to them like Bioware gave into the slicer whining liars? They came to the forums, made up bogus and ridiculous numbers and bioware reduced the gathering skill to a pile of dust.

[kottonmouth]

Rift, my favorite topic. Considering I played that game basically since its inception and have put more hours into it than almost anybody around, I feel I am qualified to critique your comparison between the two games.

 

 

 

I agree 100% here. Rift really spoiled me with their 5 role slots. I have never understood how people can say it makes the game easy. Huh? I would argue that it makes it more challenging. Instead of one spec to learn, you have to master others in different circumstances.

 

I think every game should give you a chance to mess around with your spec as you see fit. Part of the fun in MMO's is finding and testing new specs. But, to be fair, a complicated and large soul tree was Rift's #1 selling point when it came out (not really so with SWTOR). It is also a monster to balance. In case you don't remember, the forums are filled with "nerf this, buff that" threads. I feel sorry for Trion as they are ALWAYS behind the "theory crafters" who are finding OP specs.

 

I don't think having 5 roles here would be necessary (since the soul tree here is nowhere near as complex), but a dual spec that doesn't cost a fortune every time you respec would be nice. I say give us an extra role slot and make it a one time large fee.

 

 

 

Sounds more like a bug to me rather than some intentional game mechanic. I did Mandalorian Raiders a while back and when we cleared it, the loot box wouldn't open. Lots of people have the same issue. It is a bug. Be patient.

 

 

 

Some sort of DR system would be nice, I think. However, if you will recall in Rift, they didn't have much of a DR system at first, and people complained just as much about being chain stunned as they do here. Finally, they "buffed" the DR system and it effectively made using stuns pointless because everyone you try to CC is "immune." Now, the forums are full of people saying "Nerf DR." Both sides have a point. It's a complicated issue.

 

As for the Hutball stuff. People complain about force speed and knockbacks, etc. Well, if you will recall in Rift, there are threads 200 pages long with people asking for rogue nerfs. Rogues in that game have all kinds of shifting and sprinting abilities (in the riftstalker tree) which makes them Godmode when they are running stones. Once a rogue picks up a shard in Whitefall, he is gone. Goodbye, you ain't catching him if he has the right spec and knows H2play.

 

This may sound bad and unfair, but its actually fun. I think each class should have abilities that make them the only class that is good at something in some special circumstances. PVP'ers in Rift adjusted their game and finally learned how to slow down rogue runners. Rogues are still the best runners, but people adjusted and it's more balanced now. I think it adds an element of fun to the game when you know "so-in-so is a good rogue runner, do not let him grab the flag."

 

 

 

Give me SWTOR companions over Rift's weak azz pets anyday. And having 5 companions is not useless if you want to level your crafting skills up. You need as many as you can get doing crafting quests for you. And the only way to make that more efficient is with increased affection from your companions.

 

You are not forced to use companions, and you can't use them in WZ's or in some FP's and operations. So, I don't see what the issue is.

 

 

 

I crafted a purple the other day and I am pretty sure it was NOT bound. That said, Rift has the same issue as well. Dungeon and raid gear is MUCH better than any epic you can craft. I don't really see what your complaint is here. Sure, I would like to be able to craft epic stuff that is better than raid drops, but I am not aware of a game that lets you do it.

 

 

 

When I started Rift, my fingers were sore from all the walking. I didn't have a mount till level 15, and I was sick and tired of walking. I dunno of a game where you don't walk a LOT before you get a mount. That said, at least with SWTOR the quests are much more interesting, which takes some of the grind out of all the walking around.

 

 

 

The game is 2 weeks old, and you expect it to have 7 years of content? Really? And when Rift released, iirc, it had GSB -- one raid. It also had, what, 3 maybe 4 dungeons?

 

 

 

Tab targeting is the same in every game, bro. If you don't like it, then go play an FPS. Yes, there ARE bugs in this game, so I am not making light of that, but I haven't personally seen anything game-breaking.

 

 

 

So, you want this game to be a 2 button masher like Rift? Pretty much every class in Rift, except for mages, had 2 main buttons -- a builder macro and a finisher macro.

 

And if you have empty slots in the quickbar, then you obviously are doing it wrong. My two bottom quickbars were FULL long before level 50. I am now having to use both my left and right quickbars to get all my abilities squeezed in.

 

 

 

Same thing in every other MMO. When a new raid comes out, the hardcores finish it in days, maybe a week. Then they just sit around trolling general chat the rest of the time. Why is SWTOR punished for stuff that happens in EVERY MMO? At least here you HAVE a story. That's more than Wow and Rift can say.

 

 

 

 

If you kept up with the game during development, the devs said they did not want a game where "20 people beat up on one guy -- we don't find that very heroic." That was one of the dev's exact words. I agree with them. I think raids should be designed where individual players feel they are making a difference and not just some stat on a spreadsheet pulling such-in-such DPS or healing. I also like that they try to add story element to the raids and not just make it some arbitrary instance where all anyone cares about are numbers on the screen.

 

If that's not for you, then WoW and Rift are still around for you. Maybe you can go 11/11 in Hammerknell and sit around Sanctum or Meridian trolling 50 chat like everyone else.

 

P.S., can I have your stuff?

 

Man, your taking allot of time trying to reason with the OP. How is it worth it? Just let her wine and go back 'World of losers with to much time on their hands Craft'.

[uadarth]

ADHD is a sad face.

 

I am enjoying the story at lvl 45 as I have at lvl 20. It's just getting better in Chapter 2 is all.

 

You need to find something which is less of a tax on the brain than this game.

 

I'm sorry, but even the best stories in videogames are an absolute joke compared to a good book or some good tv shows like BSG/ds9. If you think these stories tax your brain...

[DarthKhaos]

2) The only way you can be missed out on a boss loot is that your group started the loot while you were out of the room.

 

You only miss out on the loot if you RELEASE while the fight is still going on and run back in. Stay dead till the party wipes or gets the win and you will get to roll on your loot.

 

 

ALSO since no one has said it yet...

 

 

~dramatic pause~

 

 

OP Can I have your stuff?

[Knyghtprowler]

The OP speaks the truth!

 

I fully agree with all he has said. In addition I would like to add that the UI is worthless unless I can fully scale it, move it, change the font and choose where my windows pop up.

 

Good Day!

[Biogood]

The amount of fanbois who will stick to playing this game no matter what, is probably enough on its own to keep this game from dying, IMO...

[cowlifornia]

Was talking to Asuka, who said wow:cata's content finished in 2 days, which is not true, because the fastest person to ding 85 took 2 days.

 

Deathwing was killed within the same day he was released....by hundreds of guilds.

[rakadisaprin]

Pretty much disagree with everything the OP said. Ya, I think i will like this game better when people like you are playing another MMO that you hate.

[skroz]

All I can say is that those of us that reply here is doing what he wants and feeding his NERD RAGE. Nuff Said!

[imtrick]

First I'd like to make it clear that my intention of this post is not to bash the game, but to state the obvious, and maybe things that players are not aware of.

 

You're not stating the obvious, and you are bashing the game. Look at your title. I don't know if you've fooled yourself, but it didn't work on me.

[Akash]

There are DEFINITELY some things this game could learn from Rift, some of which the OP describes.

 

Flexibility with switching specs, macros, etc just add to gameplay.

 

So far this has been a good passer-of-time between Raid nights in Rift, but that may be where it remains classified.

[oflow]

1- NPC conversations in quests: this starts as a nice feature where a player would enjoy the story and feel part of the game, however, after level 20 it gets tedious, uninteresting and very tiring to skip though, especially after the 100th quest you do, bioware shouldn't have put a conversation in every quest, just the important ones.

 

This I agree with. I think many of the side quests for gathering/killing didnt need to be voice acted.

 

I also feel that a lot of the voice acting is kinda wasted because a good portion of the NPCs all speak Galactic Basic or whatevver the alien language is called.

 

While cool at first, you still have to read the subtitles, and I can read a lot faster than listening to a long conversation in a laguage I cant understand, sometimes you get chains of quests where 3/4s of the conversations are in alien.

 

I honestly feel that it would have been better to have the aliens speaking English the majority of the time, with a few aliens speaking in alien.

 

If this where the case I could listen to the voice-acting instead of reading the subtitles more, and it would be more immersive for me. The aliens on the Clone Wars tv show speak in English most of the time, and its not really immersion breaking, you barely even notice it.

 

I know a lot of people in beta said that its not realistic or immersive, but for me its the exact opposite. Listening to quest after quest of dialog in an alien language basically just means I'm reading the mission text anyway so theres kinda no point to even havinng it.

Edited January 4, 2012 by oflow

[Jongar]

and....the...point...is?

 

So you jump from MMO to MMO and never find anything worth your play time....ever stop to think for 2 seconds that MMO's might not be for you? probably not..thinking is hard.

 

First of all i'm not gonna answer to all posts. Thank you all for sharing your replies, those that I have read, and those that I didn't.

 

However, let me make it clear that I did not jump from an MMO to another, Played WoW for like 4 years, DAOC for like 4 years, EVE online for like 3 years, COH for a few months, Rift for a few months...what else? Diablo 2 which has equivalent group numbers as SWTOR for like 5 years, so yeah, been playing games to the fullest, some for a long enough time, other MMOs that I don't remember as well. So please, do not pass judgement before you know.

[Xanideyn]

Like many other people have pointed out, you are comparing this MMO (at launch) to WoW which has been out for several YEARS, expecting it to have just as many features if not more. The awesome thing about MMO's is that they are constantly changing and a lot of the issues you have presented are things that Bioware will likely add in the future.

 

I also find it hilarious that you have issues with the storytelling aspect of missions...I assume that since WATCHING mission briefing is so much of a chore for you that READING the quest text in WoW was completely out of the question...

[Elyons]

First I'd like to make it clear that my intention of this post is not to bash the game

 

 

From reading the rest of your post, I think that you should edit that statement to "Just so everyone knows, my clear intentions here are to bash the game to pieces."

 

Anyway, you listed some valid points in there, however - change your title.

 

"Why this game will end up like Rift" screams whining troll.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Elyons

[Knyghtprowler]

You only miss out on the loot if you RELEASE while the fight is still going on and run back in. Stay dead till the party wipes or gets the win and you will get to roll on your loot.

 

 

ALSO since no one has said it yet...

 

 

~dramatic pause~

 

 

OP Can I have your stuff?

 

Thats funny... there is this one game... and they changed it to allow loot trading of bound items within the group in case things happen, someone could always loot for you and trade it back to you even if it was bound.

 

Hmmmm... wonder why a next gen game wouldn't have designed that in the front end. It's ok though we will wait 5 years or so for them to figure that out right?

[Akash]

First of all i'm not gonna answer to all posts. Thank you all for sharing your replies, those that I have read, and those that I didn't.

 

However, let me make it clear that I did not jump from an MMO to another, Played WoW for like 4 years, DAOC for like 4 years, EVE online for like 3 years, COH for a few months, Rift for a few months...what else? Diablo 2 which has equivalent group numbers as SWTOR for like 5 years, so yeah, been playing games to the fullest, some for a long enough time, other MMOs that I don't remember as well. So please, do not pass judgement before you know.

 

I'm a sticker as well. Played EQ1 for 4 years, AoC for 6 months (believe it or not), Aion for 2 years, Rift since beta.

[BezerkerX]

Lastly, what really is very bad about this game:

 

1- No Dual Spec: when Rift was released, we could have 4 different character specs, then they added the 5th. When this game was released we have only one character spec, this has got to be the biggest joke from bio-ware, even a free to play games have dual specs now.

 

2- Flashpoints: Flashpoints are a joke, once you die at a boss fight, you do not get to loot anything. Of course now some boss fights are rediculously strong for a same-level group, especially if you get a noob tank.

 

3-PVP: PVP in swotr is only 8v8 in all battlegrounds, all classes have 5 kinds of crowd control abilities, so basically the team that uses their CCs last wins. Not to mention in the ball arena, Jedi and Sith are completely ridiculous with their push backs, and they're the only ones who carry the ball anyway.

 

4- companions: useless at level 50 and in flashpoints. Can't do quests without them, so you have to keep at least one companion with you. Having five companions that you need to gear, work on their affection, just to turn out useless end game is kinda of...useless I say.

 

5- Crafting (Crew-Skill): super, duper useless, the epics you craft are bound on pickup, you basically cannot sell anything useful. Non-profitable crafting, recipes drop rate is very rare, missions take too long to finish beyond 260 points of skill. So far I've sold only one crafted item out of like 10, so I didn't bother at all, since all crafted gear is literally useless even when leveling up, since you can get really better gear just by doing quests.

 

6- Walking: all the unnecessary walking this game has, from spaceport to ship, from ship to ship controls, then back out of the ship, to the elevator to the spaceport to outside, not to mention all the useless uninteresting cut scenes that pop every time the ship flies. Why can't we just hit one button from the spaceport and enter the ship? why do I have to WALK, not even use the mount to do it?

 

7- Content: the content is a joke, people have already finished everything in 15 days of game play, one WoW expansion has more content than this entire game, not to mention the file size difference.

 

8- Targetting issues, Lag, super bugs: all of these just sway the players from continueing to play the game, in my opinion I should not continue subscribing to this game anymore, in fact I'm going to cancel now.

 

ADDED (edited):

9- No macroing: I'm already at a stage where I have only 3 or 4 empty slots in the quickbar, and still did not reach lvl 50, not to mention that not all of them are bound to a key, oh and i'm talking about my 4 quickbars.

 

See my responses,

 

1.It's been out 1 week, respec is cheap, and afaik you can't be a tank and a healer in the same AC so either be a damage, healer , or tank, it's far to much work, this early in the release to be worried about collecting 2 sets of end game gear so you can perform multiple roles.

 

2.No idea what you've been doing, I get to loot in flashpoints, even when dead. have you tried actually right clicking the body?

 

3.In my experience bounty hunters nearly always have the ball because they are so mobile and ridiculously hard to kill, and can attack while on the run, your argument again, is flawed.

 

4.I manage just fine without my companions, maybe you should shift the blame to your gear or bad skill rotation. I only ever need my companion at one point and that's when I'm busy solo-ing heroic 2 mans. Also you are not forced to gear all 5, pick your companion and then stick with it, half the quest rewards in the game are specifically targeted for your companions so you dont have to go looking...

 

5. Afaik I have been able to sell 100% of my crafts, making an absolute fortune for my Epic sniper rifles on my armstech, again, I have no idea what you have been doing.

 

6.Probably the only valid point you have in this entirely flawed argument, walking from spaceport to ship is annoying, but by no means game-breaking and will not 'make this game end up like rift'. It takes what? 30 seconds,Minimize and put on your favourite song while you walk, honestly it's just dumb to argue about this.

 

7. You hit the nail right on the head, WoW, EXPANSION. Vanilla WoW took a ridiculously short time to complete. I was skeptical on release about this '200 hours of gameplay per class' but now think that it's pretty much a fairly accurate representation. The 200 hours of gameplay is there, if you want to burn through it by playing 16 hours a day that's up to you.

 

8.There is maybe 1 targeting issue every 50 quests I complete, and it's usually because the npc isn't in the same 'area' as me. I get a smooth 40-50ms the entire time while playing. There is no lag. There is however a small combat animation 'delay' which is currently being addressed.

 

9.There are very few reasons to use macros in this game, since there is a 1.5s GCD your macro of 3 abilities will take 4.5 seconds to complete, If you can't press 3 buttons in 4.5s theres something wrong with you.

 

I think you've been playing the wrong game tbh. Bye.

Edited January 4, 2012 by BezerkerX

[tekniicolor]

So much complaining, from so many people! This game is but a babe, give it time to grow before you dump it in a cardboard box in outside an orphanage.

 

If this game is in fact so horrible and pointless, no one is forcing you to play it.

[ZombieBunny]

I have been playing since Dec. 13th, am lvl 50, am raiding and doing pvp daily.

 

1. Dual spec is bs. Its a lazy way to let people play every role of a class without ever actually commiting to a character as "a healer" or "a tank." It waters down the game and imho, reduces the quality of life.

 

2. If you think Flashpoints are a joke, then you have obviously not done enough. Everyone knows since the days of EQ that you do not release until the group either the boss is dead or you wipe. Yes it's a bug but easily worked around. If they are too hard for you, too bad. The game isn't a walk through, and I get the feeling you'll be dying a lot when you get to Hoth, Voss, Corellia, etc.

 

3. I am a Jedi Sentinel and have no hard CC. I have Force Stasis, which is a channeled 3 second DoT that I literally can't do anything while I channel it. I have interrupts, that's about it.

 

4. You are complaining, because they put too much content in?

 

5. Crafting is amazingly useful. Creating modded pieces is great, and don't get me started on mods and what not. I love the crafting system here more than anything in another game, other than possibly SWG, for sheer variety.

 

6. I'm sorry you can't click and teleport where you would like to go. Why not just make a game where you log in, click 1 button and it completes every quest in the game for you without you ever having to leave that spot? That way, you can play yourself in real life?

 

7. No content? NO CONTENT? I got to 50 in /played of 6 days and 20 minutes, and that was me logging in and going questing every day. That's a longer time than any other MMO outside of ever quest or DoAC or other long gone days of yore. There is more content on one planet, than most of WoW put together, since all the content in WoW is passive. This is active content, it involves you, pulls you in.

 

8. There really aren't many bugs, the ones there are aren't game breaking. Anyway, goodbye, I hope you find what you are looking for.

 

Zombiebunny out.

[ClarkwondooVal]

First I'd like to make it clear that my intention of this post is not to bash the game, but to state the obvious, and maybe things that players are not aware of.

 

I've been playing the game for like 7 days now, my character is level 36 at the moment. having finished all quests of Darmund Kaas, Tatooine, and many quests here and there, completed my legacy quest line and going further with the story quest line.

 

Having said this, it is clear that I have played the game, and my judgement is not out of nothing.

 

Secondly, I would like to mention what is good about this game, and why this good part turns really bad later on:

 

1- NPC conversations in quests: this starts as a nice feature where a player would enjoy the story and feel part of the game, however, after level 20 it gets tedious, uninteresting and very tiring to skip though, especially after the 100th quest you do, bioware shouldn't have put a conversation in every quest, just the important ones.

 

2- Waiting for players in quest conversations: again the same thing, it gets nice in the beginning, but then really really tiring later on. not that social items are any good, but when you quest with people and you do want to do that part, and then someone wants to listen to everything the NPC says...it burns my nerves.

 

Lastly, what really is very bad about this game:

 

1- No Dual Spec: when Rift was released, we could have 4 different character specs, then they added the 5th. When this game was released we have only one character spec, this has got to be the biggest joke from bio-ware, even a free to play games have dual specs now.

 

2- Flashpoints: Flashpoints are a joke, once you die at a boss fight, you do not get to loot anything. Of course now some boss fights are rediculously strong for a same-level group, especially if you get a noob tank.

 

3-PVP: PVP in swotr is only 8v8 in all battlegrounds, all classes have 5 kinds of crowd control abilities, so basically the team that uses their CCs last wins. Not to mention in the ball arena, Jedi and Sith are completely ridiculous with their push backs, and they're the only ones who carry the ball anyway.

 

4- companions: useless at level 50 and in flashpoints. Can't do quests without them, so you have to keep at least one companion with you. Having five companions that you need to gear, work on their affection, just to turn out useless end game is kinda of...useless I say.

 

5- Crafting (Crew-Skill): super, duper useless, the epics you craft are bound on pickup, you basically cannot sell anything useful. Non-profitable crafting, recipes drop rate is very rare, missions take too long to finish beyond 260 points of skill. So far I've sold only one crafted item out of like 10, so I didn't bother at all, since all crafted gear is literally useless even when leveling up, since you can get really better gear just by doing quests.

 

6- Walking: all the unnecessary walking this game has, from spaceport to ship, from ship to ship controls, then back out of the ship, to the elevator to the spaceport to outside, not to mention all the useless uninteresting cut scenes that pop every time the ship flies. Why can't we just hit one button from the spaceport and enter the ship? why do I have to WALK, not even use the mount to do it?

 

7- Content: the content is a joke, people have already finished everything in 15 days of game play, one WoW expansion has more content than this entire game, not to mention the file size difference.

 

8- Targetting issues, Lag, super bugs: all of these just sway the players from continueing to play the game, in my opinion I should not continue subscribing to this game anymore, in fact I'm going to cancel now.

 

ADDED (edited):

9- No macroing: I'm already at a stage where I have only 3 or 4 empty slots in the quickbar, and still did not reach lvl 50, not to mention that not all of them are bound to a key, oh and i'm talking about my 4 quickbars.

(finished Editing)

 

All of this sums up at how bad this game really is, story lines? good finished in 15 days...then what?

 

Bioware could have done something better with this game, but no. I believe they should have made this a single player game, in fact, this game is an exact copy of Knights of the old Republic games, it is just that now you have other people playing around you, and you can see them and play with them.

 

Now let me ask a final question...What is an MMO? a massive multiplayer online game right? where on earth does SWTOR fit that description if groups are made out of 4 players, PVP of 8, and the biggest raid is only 16 players...how can this be massively multiplayer online game? where's the massive in a maximum of 16 players playing together? and of 4 questing together? and of 8 PVPing together? where? even battlefield has more player count than this...this is just the biggest joke on earth.

 

And this concludes my whining.

Oh man, how much you're right...true (sad) story...

[DarthKhaos]

Thats funny... there is this one game... and they changed it to allow loot trading of bound items within the group in case things happen, someone could always loot for you and trade it back to you even if it was bound.

 

Hmmmm... wonder why a next gen game wouldn't have designed that in the front end. It's ok though we will wait 5 years or so for them to figure that out right?

 

Even in ... that one game ... if you weren't present for the kill you can NOT get the item traded to you. In ... that one game ... if you die and release you can't get back in FYI.

 

I should know I played it. Love it, still do, just issues with my ISP caused me to stop.

Love this one also.