Juggernaut DPS?

[Noth]

Nope, something is interrupting you in this case. Outside of interruptions even if they move away it will complete.

 

Negative. Just did a huttball. Everytime the person simply runs out and I wiff. No interruption, my cast finishes. Many time that last blow would kill them (they have a sliver of health) and it does not damage with nothing interrupting me (them running away and no one else around me to interrupt me).

[IreScath]

I disagree, this has not been my experience at all. From what you said it doesn't even sound like you use it. As I have said, I use it all the time and complete it all the time on non-stationary targets.

 

So theory crafters on sithwarrior.com and other reputable sites are all just plain wrong?..

 

Are you willing to be open to the idea that you just might be mistaken?.. Yes moving targets you can still hit... but only if they stay within range and are in front of your character. I guess its an ok ability to use against VERY bad PvP'ers... But then again anything is good agasint very bad PvPer's...so again.. it doesn't mattter.

 

Did you read the link I posted a few posts back? I suggest you do, it can only help!

[Ulliam]

I'm going on my observations not others. I also read that link you mentioned among others.

 

I will state that I have noticed it failing more often lately but attributed this to interruptions as more folks are learning better how to PvP. It's also possible something has changed recently with the patches but despite this I still finish the channel most of the time (90%'ish maybe).

 

I wouldn't rule out that there is a distance limit but my main point which I have no doubt is that the target does not have to be stationary to complete the channel.

 

I wish we had a Combat Log so we could go back and review fights and get a solid understanding of our abilities.

[Sykomyke]

http://sithwarrior.com/forums/Thread-Vengeance-DPS-Compendium

 

Ravage is just not good. Skip to last page (last post even), for a more detailed explanation on why ravage isn't good.

 

But it basically comes down to the need to build rage so that you can use shatter, impale, and force scream as close as possible to when they come off cooldown. Ravage does not build rage, and takes 3 seconds to complete. Slash is actualyl higher dps taking into account the duration. But pleas do read that thread.

 

Ravage is good DPS for those who are Immortal spec. For other specs? Probably not. But stop generalizing please. If you are going to say 'lololol ravage suks u bad' then at least put it into context without blatantly side-stepping the facts.

 

And also: Immortal Spec in PvP is more about protecting squishes, and your crowd control. Immortal spec gets 4 more forms of CC more then other Jugg specs. (Force Choke no longer channeled, Force Charge stuns for 2 seconds, Backhand stuns, Free Chilling screams-0 rage cost, Free Force Screams/Sonic Barriers)

 

Immortal spec is just that. It's about staying alive as long as possible, crowd controlling the enemy and just generally annoying them. It's not about "zomg 1337 deeps" it's about group play.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Sykomyke

[IreScath]

Ravage is good DPS for those who are Immortal spec. For other specs? Probably not. But stop generalizing please. If you are going to say 'lololol ravage suks u bad' then at least put it into context without blatantly side-stepping the facts.

 

And also: Immortal Spec in PvP is more about protecting squishes, and your crowd control. Immortal spec gets 4 more forms of CC more then other Jugg specs. (Force Choke no longer channeled, Force Charge stuns for 2 seconds, Backhand stuns, Free Chilling screams-0 rage cost, Free Force Screams/Sonic Barriers)

 

Immortal spec is just that. It's about staying alive as long as possible, crowd controlling the enemy and just generally annoying them. It's not about "zomg 1337 deeps" it's about group play.

 

Please do me the courtesy of reading my posts, and threads I link prior to bashing me and putting words into my mouth... like "zomgz leet deeps".

 

The tread that I posted (that you quoted), is a VENGEANCE dps compendium, and the comments dealt with that spec. I even went on to only mention it with regards to impale, shatter, etc.

 

Hopefulyl you actually read my post this time and realise your mistake. We'll see I guess.

Edited January 4, 2012 by IreScath

[Sykomyke]

Please do me the courtesy of reading my posts, and threads I link prior to bashing me and putting words into my mouth... like "zomgz leet deeps".

 

The tread that I posted (that you quoted), is a VENGEANCE dps compendium, and the comments dealt with that spec. I even went on to only mention it with regards to impale, shatter, etc.

 

Hopefulyl you actually read my post this time and realise your mistake. We'll see I guess.

 

Nothing you stated disavowed my previous statement regarding your perception of ravage. I did read your previous vengeance build post. I was stating what I considered to be an oversight by you. I haven't played rage/vengeance spec'd jugs yet; only immortal spec. But Ravage is excellent DPS even for a channeled ability, it's only shortcoming is in PvP.

 

Also, you misspelled 'thread' and 'realize'.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Sykomyke

[IreScath]

Nothing you stated disavowed my previous statement regarding your perception of ravage. I did read your previous vengeance build post. I was stating what I considered to be an oversight by you. I haven't played rage/vengeance spec'd jugs yet; only immortal spec. But Ravage is excellent DPS even for a channeled ability, it's only shortcoming is in PvP.

 

Also, you misspelled 'thread' and 'realize'.

 

thread was a typo... realise = English, realize = American spelling.

 

I'm not in the USA. Nice try though.

 

You're obviously looking for a fight... as there was no oversight in my posts.. I was talking about vengeance. period. Pointing out spelling errors just furthers my point that you're just looking for a fight.

 

And Ravage being useful in PvP for immortal builds is still possible with back hand / force choke(with it not being a channelled ability).

[Tfranco]

I just started a different thread about this, should have looked around posting oh well...anyway

 

Im a 43ish jugg dps and its great, really enjoy its play style reminds me of arms warrior kinda deal from wow. its perfectly acceptable to be jugg dps if they didnt want them dpsing they wouldnt give the option. Though i can already see the "Hybrid wars" starting up here and im not looking forward to it. I sure hope BW handles it better than blizz did

[Strah]

You could always look at this screenshot from a juggpvp guy:

http://guard-this.com/images/nyan/30k.jpg

 

I believe with this amount of buffs my death from above would crit for 3.5+K a tick, or my sniper would ambush yo *** for 10k.

 

Not impressed.

[Shaudellx]

Alright, I leveled as a Jugg, dps spec all the way to 42. I'm still leveling lol. I found Jugg dps to be very weak in the beginning, idk why. My friend and I play Swtor alot together and he's raising a Sith Inq while I'm raising a jugg. He would be like I just hit a 1.4k! and the highest I had ever hit was like no joke an 800. We were the same level. Idk I felt like I was weak until I hit 40.

 

I now realize being a dps jugg is about applying all your bleeds and then going for your strong abilities, but unfortunately, you don't get your bleeds until the 30s because you get them in your talent tree. I'm not saying that I haven't enjoyed leveling as a Jugg. I really have. The story is AMAZING and I've never really had trouble with too many quests. It's also nice that you can switch stances and tank some heroic quests.

[finc_loki]

Impressive yes, but like you say it has basically everything blown to drop that damage. Without pocket healers he'd be CC'd and dead with that many on him before he got it off as well.

 

 

 

Having to have basically every available damage buff on you to get this numbers is not a regular occurrence.

 

This is how it works to build that level of damage with Smash.

 

Vengeance tree 30% extra damage to smash at all times.

 

Rage tree specced where you can stack 25% damage 4 times (shockwave), IE 100%.

 

Now you have 230% damage to unleash.

 

So if you specced that a force charge automatically grant 100% chance for critical hit for smash.

 

Do you start to see the picture?

 

So not only do you hit with 230% damage it is an AUTOMATICAL critical hit if you force charge to the target as well.

 

What you have to do to build that is force choke/crush someone for 4 ticks.

 

Might not be easy to get all of this at all times, but it's right there in the rage spec + the lowest tier 3 point 30% smash ability.

Edited January 5, 2012 by finc_loki

[finc_loki]

Wrong. It takes hardly any time at all to set up a 4 Shockwave Smash, and on top of that, Ravage, Obliterate, and Force Scream ALL contribute significantly to Rage DPS, even if they don't have the DoT effect that Vengeance receives.

 

 

 

Obliterate does NOT grant Shockwave stacks, and the fact that Obliterate procs Dominate puts it on par with Impale. Force Crush does MORE damage than Impale, and were it not for the CD it would be close to Shatter. The added damage to Smash from Shockwave will be comparable to all the DoT damage of Vengeance, and it gives Rage spec a huge advantage on any fight that requires AoE.

 

 

I'm glad you think your 7 wasted years of raiding means something. It doesn't.

 

 

Well force crush is the top talent in Rage tree, and shatter is the top talent in vengeance.

Not fair to compare it to impale is it?

 

Also Impale does a lot of damage.

 

Playing PVE I think any of the two damage tree's are perfectly fine, one focus more on melee damage the other on force damage.

 

For PvP rage seems to be all the "rage".

[Kazmtyh]

Marauder DPS is considerably better. Juggernauts should and do tank at the end game. If you want to go DPS, be a marauder. If you want to tank, go Jugs.

 

The end.

 

100% wrong. At 50, any DPS spec will match up with just about every other class. The only time. You don't judge classes against each-other at level 15.

 

I have a Rage Spec Juggernaut for pvp and he can stay with the best DPS'ers in most warzones.

 

LRN2PLY your class.

[akaJackTurner]

I recently just respecd Rage to try out the smash crits. Keep in mind I am only level 33. Wow! It is is sweet to hit 4-6 mobs for 1300 auto crits. My only complaint about the rage spec is that you can only cast the huge smash after Force Choke comes of cool down, about 40 secs if your speced into it maybe a little less if you take those two points that reduce Force Abilities cool downs. That being said I think I like Vengeance tree better. Now I have not put those three points into Dark Resonance which will in turn increase crit damage another 30%. But I can only imagine how much harder it will hit. What I like about Vengeance is that while in Rage tree Force Scream, Ravage, and Vicious Slash all do considerable damage, I feel that Vengeance I am putting out damage faster with Impale> Force Scream crits and Smash still hits hard for free. Also I really like Unstoppable proc, yes it is only 4 seconds but I have to stop less and Channel Hatred when running Vengeance. After reading a lot of posts on both specs I think both specs are equally lethal, just have to figure out how to maximize your abilities and utilize your companion. However, last night I was running some Heroics with a Sniper, Sorc, and Power Tech, they all said they were blown away about me being a Juggernaut and my dps being legit. I am going to stay Rage for now , fill out the tree and see how much more I can pump out of Smash, but so far I really like the play style of Vengeance and I feel like it is more efficient for Boss fights. Could just be that I have played Vengeance for 32 levels and I am better at it, but regardless, both specs are viable and I wouldn't say one is the better than the other, it really depends on the player.

[bigodie]

I dunno I'm barely 50 on my jugg, and have no expertise gear, and I've still been in the top 5 for dmg in the warzones. (oh and I'm immortal specced with defense gear on)

 

I feel overpowered sometimes.

 

The only time I know I'm out matched is against other lvl 50s and generally they have a pvp title.

 

I stick close to a healer, keep them guarded and use single target and aoe taunts with slows and fear all over the place. I get medals for dmg. Medals for protection. Medals for surviving. I can carry the huttball like a pro. And the only time I get face ***** is when there are 3 or 4 players trying to bring me down while I'm CC'd.

 

Granted when I do run into a full pvp geared/specced player I have a hard time bringing them down or they laugh in my face while destroying me, but that is an issue of 0 expertise on my part.

 

Atleast that's how I feel.

[Noth]

This is how it works to build that level of damage with Smash.

 

Vengeance tree 30% extra damage to smash at all times.

 

Rage tree specced where you can stack 25% damage 4 times (shockwave), IE 100%.

 

Now you have 230% damage to unleash.

 

So if you specced that a force charge automatically grant 100% chance for critical hit for smash.

 

Do you start to see the picture?

 

So not only do you hit with 230% damage it is an AUTOMATICAL critical hit if you force charge to the target as well.

 

What you have to do to build that is force choke/crush someone for 4 ticks.

 

Might not be easy to get all of this at all times, but it's right there in the rage spec + the lowest tier 3 point 30% smash ability.

 

I know how it works. Tio get the 6k hits you have to have basically every damage buff on you going (stims, pickups, relics and pretty much anything else). Without those you'll usually see 3-4k crits only.

[Sevenpatch]

Okay, 42 Jugg Vengeance spec here, looking for what the best dps spec is.

 

I see a lot of bickering here and I can't get an answer other than I should just try it out myself to see who's right (or most correct).

 

Let’s see if I can get a good answer though.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but here is my overview of the debate.

 

Rage spec doesn't do enough dps because it needs to have a perfect storm of buffs and flawless execution of the Rage spec abilities.

 

vs

 

Rage spec can still do great dps without an unusual amount of buffs but still needs flawless execution of the Rage spec abilities.

 

So which one is right and if you answer, do you actually play with Rage spec and have the experience?