Swtor isn't a "mmo"..

[Crazed]

You seem to be confusing Themepark MMO with Open World MMO.. they are both Massively Online Multiplayer games, they both are very different from each other.

 

You may want to go and try some other Open World games or wait for some new ones to come out. I would suggest staying away from WOW and Rift and a lot of the other recent MMOs since themepark is the current focus.

[Edarias]

Because I'm tired of hearing people whine about the game. If you don't like it... leave.

 

If you don't like people complaining on the forums... leave.

 

See how easy it is to use a pointless argument like that?

 

Back on topic, it is worrying how empty the world seems at times. Playing on Swiftsure, one of the busiest servers, it still feels like an older mmo. Takes people ages to find groups in general chat (I've seen people spamming for heroic quests for 4+ hours) and seeing more than two or three people in the one quest area is a remarkable event.

[Aradain]

Interesting "facts"

 

You do realize that stating "The sky is blue, and blue is an ugly color" doesn't make the statement "therefore the sky is ugly" a fact. Which is what you've done in each one of your "fact" points.

[Malphai]

Correct Xmok. That's one of the points i'm trying to make. Thank you.

[kehatch]

Funny. I thought there were millions of players playing a persistent game together. I was sure I saw a hoard of players last time i was online. I could be wrong.

 

Let me try:

 

Fact, the sky is blue. Except when its black. Or orange.

 

Fact, bananas taste like bananas. Except when regurgitated by a gorilla. Then they taste like grapefruits.

 

Fact, there is no such thing as a mature internet post. Except when there are ******* on it.

 

Which proves TOR is a MMO. Phew, I was worried for a sec.

[IheartGreenGirls]

Yes it is.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm glad we had this talk.

[alrighto]

Edit: posted in the wrong thread Edited January 4, 2012 by alrighto

[Dasffion]

So how many of these "multiplayer online games" that SWTOR is supposed to be have a large amount of group content and actually reward grouping with a whole system that grants you points for being in a group?

[Concede]

agreed with tc

[Malphai]

Not true Aradain. I stated that the game is very instance based. Which is a fact.

Then my opinion is stated after that, which i already said is MY opinion. Not fact.

There is a difference between the two.

[Rion_Starkiller]

If it's not a MMO, then why did they incorporate the worst part of MMO's: respawning mobs? Let's just make the entire game one big instance, so I can have my own personal story. Thanks.

 

 

 

PS -- this is BioWare's first MMO. They are MMO noobs. Much like many of you are noobs to BioWare products.

 

You wouldn't know a good story if it hit you in the face.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Rion_Starkiller

[kehatch]

Not necessarily. You can have many multiplayer games that are played online. Diablo 3 will be such an example. SWTOR is closer to being just a regular multiplayer game with a large playerbase, than a fully fledged mmo.

 

You can win any argument by changing the definition. Most people consider a MMO as a game with persistent characters played in a constantly multi-player environment a MMO. You want to call it something else then go ahead.

 

Or you can use the Urban Dictionary definition:

 

"A treadmill that makes you fatter." In which case it definitely qualifies.

[Skapek-Skocap]

If you don't like people complaining on the forums... leave.

 

See how easy it is to use a pointless argument like that?

 

Back on topic, it is worrying how empty the world seems at times. Playing on Swiftsure, one of the busiest servers, it still feels like an older mmo. Takes people ages to find groups in general chat (I've seen people spamming for heroic quests for 4+ hours) and seeing more than two or three people in the one quest area is a remarkable event.

 

I'm good actually, thanks though.

 

I don't mind people complaining, but this is just a nonsensical and opinionated rant that doesn't make any sense... That's why I commented.

[Crazed]

If you don't like people complaining on the forums... leave.

 

See how easy it is to use a pointless argument like that?

 

Back on topic, it is worrying how empty the world seems at times. Playing on Swiftsure, one of the busiest servers, it still feels like an older mmo. Takes people ages to find groups in general chat (I've seen people spamming for heroic quests for 4+ hours) and seeing more than two or three people in the one quest area is a remarkable event.

 

i think the heroic issue is a lot of people are used to games that have dungeon finder like systems, swotor is lacking in that... it even lacks a LFG channel or a proper working search function which does need to be fixed.

 

 

the lower level areas seemed pretty full to me when i went back to help friends with quests, drumon kas had 5 instances with 200+ in each. The instancing might need to be tweaked.

[Edarias]

If it's not a MMO, then why did they incorporate the worst part of MMO's: respawning mobs? Let's just make the entire game one big instance, so I can have my own personal story. Thanks.

 

 

 

PS -- this is BioWare's first MMO. They are MMO noobs. Much like many of you are BioWare noobs.

 

You wouldn't know a good story if it hit you in the face.

 

Been playing Bioware games since Baldur's Gate. I'm not afraid to say that 30-50 of Smuggler was some of the worst writing i've seen in a video game that is selling itself on its story. Not DA2 levels of bad, but not good writing. To me, Biowares writing is becoming more predictable and less original... has been since Kotor, this is just a continuation of that. I dread to think what ME3 might be like. Gone are the days of BG2 levels of polish.

[Keldain]

Before i start to point out FACTs about this game, and then say my opinion.

 

*Fact 1 (with my opinion)*

 

This game is an instance based game, like Guild war 1 was. Everything is instance based. Even the "open" worlds are.

If you enter any planet, regardless which one. You will see that it's devided into instances. "Balmorra instance 1" ect. So even if there is 300-400-500 people on your planet, you will never see more then 20-30 of them. Since the rest is devided into another instances. Which removes the feeling of an "MMO".

 

The mini-instanced areas during leveling (the ones you pass through green forcefields to get to) are, IMO a fantastic and seamless way to do proper story-telling in an MMO. Something the genre has never really seen before. The instancing (or sharding) of the main world was a measure to help with server stability and was overly strict in its implementation to help with the initial influx of players during the opening weeks. It's already being visibly relaxed.

 

Also if you want to play with a friend which is in another instance you need to transfer to his/her instance to be able to see them.

This isn't the most annoying thing, the thing is it has a 30 min cooldown time to transfer to another instance again.

So if i make a group quest one friend, then want to make another group quest with another friend.

I can't join my other friend if he is in another instance, since i have a 30 minutes cooldown to be able to be in the same instance as him. Even in the "open" world.

So having big open world pvp battles is almost impossible since everyone will be devided into instances.

I agree this is a problem - although I would need to check about the 30m CD thing because I've never experienced it. Hopefully this will be a non-issue as Bioware phases out this kind of sharding.

 

Also the world to me atleast feel alot "scripted". I can't walk around whereever i want to. Since the path Bioware want's be to walk is surrounded by big mountains, to make sure i stay "on the path".

 

Every MMO does this to an extent. On a single-planet MMO (such as WoW and Rift) they generally do it with oceans or impassable mountains. Star Wars is a little different feeling because they have to fit in different planets. The only way not to restrict our movement would be to have entire planets simulated for each location - you really think it's reasonable for them to make something the size of Azeroth for ever world in the game? It would still be in development a couple of decades from now if they did that. The only alternative would be to restrict the whole population to a single world...which would feel a lot less Star Wars to me.

 

*Fact 2*

The UI frames doesn't always update correctly in operations. (raids).

So being a healer in BGs is completely stupid, since you can't see who takes damage ect.

This is a bug that has been reported since closed Beta, but still hasn't been fixed.

A major game mechanic that has been completely ignored by the game developers.

 

There are some bugs. This doesn't make it not an MMO. In fact, if commonality with other MMOs were what makes an MMO then having no bugs would almost certainly exclude it. They will be fixed. There will be new bugs, which will be fixed - and on, and on, and on...

 

*Fact 3*

Bioware said that every class has their own unique storyline, with 8 classes on each faction.

But in fact there is only 4 unique storylines. Becuase the advanced classes for each "class" share the same storyline. This in it self makes the advanced classes more as a spec then an class. Since the advanced classes also share alot of spells between eachother.

So in reality there is 4 classes on each faction, that has different specs. Which you can't swap between without making an Alterative character, and play though the exact same storyline again.

 

First, just because you've misremembered or misinterpreted what Bioware said doesn't make Bioware a liar...it make you bad at remembering.

 

Secondly, the Advanced class system is a thing that's different. However, compared to other MMOs the fact that you can level 4 times in the same faction and have a SIGNIFICANTLY different story each time based on your class choice...this is a major step forward. While there were a few places in WoW, for example, where you could choose to go to Stranglethorn instead of Arathi, or Borean Tundra instead of Howling Fjord - the choices were fairly inconsequential. And there's maybe two or three choices for each level in terms of scenery (and the quests are fairly similar no matter where you go. I had the same concerns as you when I played beta...but having levelled a few different classes to 20-30 to see what I like - including a couple of rerolls because I decided I wanted the opposite AC, I can say that repeatability is not as big an issue here as it was in WoW (the only difference is that in rerolls I used the spacebar more). And this is speaking as someone who had 19 toons above level 80 in WoW spread over two servers...and has, in the past, deleted 80s and 85s to make room for a new alt.

 

"The game is new, you can't compare it to WoW. Give it time"

That excuse is stupid. You would never use that excuse if it was for any other product.

If you want to buy a Car, and you ask a dealer to show you some cars.

And he shows you two:

A ferarri

And the new car from a new company.. The new car doesn't have a working engine, it explode after 10 miles.

BUT if you give it time, it will all be fixed within 1-2 years.

Which car would you buy?

 

As you can see, we compare products all the time. To see which one that is the best.

So the whole arguement that "it's a new mmo", doesn't work. Becuase if they deliver a inferior product compared to what other product of the same type that already exist. Then why should people buy it?

 

I tend to agree - comparing this game to WoW at release is a bit silly. This game doesn't have to compete with WoW 7 years ago, it has to compete with WoW now. The devs of this game also had the advantage of being able to look at WoW and learn from their mistakes. However, your analogy is downright dumb. There are certainly things that need fixed here...but nothing anywhere near the seriousness of and exploding engine. There are wrinkles to be worked out...but overall the bugs and issues are significantly less than could be expected - and certainly less than many single player games (Skyrim springs to mind) which are, by their nature, far less complicated beasts.

 

And saying "If you don't like it, don't play it?", doesn't work either. Since i don't know about these flaws before i buy the game. And since everyone that acually tries to warn other buyers, or atleast gives them an honest opinion about the game, get's spammed with useless replays.

 

That's why i would like people that acually think i'm wrong or incorrect about the points i stated earlier to replay. And to discuss these in a civil manner.

 

I agree with you - I've raised a couple of issues I have and have been told to "go back to WoW" by the raving fanbois. But the thing is, I don't want to go back to WoW. I want to play this game - I just want this game to be improved in a couple of key areas that would make it fun for me. Any MMO is a work in progress and if we can keep the discussion of issues that we have civil and useful, we can hopefully influence the Devs into making the game that will make us - and others - stick around long enough to make it thrive and succeed. We are allowed to like the game but think that some aspects are flawed. But neither the fanbois who strike down every criticism or the doomsayers who make unreasonable demands are going to help with that goal.

 

And the contention between those two are what makes these forums the most wretched hive of scum and villany you're likey to find.

[knightblaster]

Any game with many people playing at once is an MMO. TF2 is an MMO. COD is an MMO. SWTOR is an MMO.

 

I agree. I think one takeaway from that, however, is that people need to realize that games like TOR are in direct competition with games like COD and BF3, in terms of what people expect for a multiplayer experience. It used to be that there was a broader dividing line between these groups of players, but that really isn't the case any longer. It's becoming more or less the same group of players in many ways (but a different group, often, from the group that prefers SP games, like many of BW's fans).

[Jurro]

SWTOR is a MMO but tbf i feels like a single player game with an ability to group on occasion

[UA_Wookie]

I think the OP has some legitimate concerns. The game Bioware made is fun and mostly enjoyable at the moment. However, with the extremely restrictive linear gameplay and worlds, i worry about the replay value of this game 6-12 months from now when everyone has experienced the stories multiple times. I think it's going to get really old...really fast.

[Geeluc]

They should have just made KOTOR 3, with added on multi-player content.

[KahnyaGnorc]

The Advanced Class system isn't something new or unique. I started MMOs with DAoC, where you started with a Base Class with certain skills and spec-lines (some spec-lines, like weapon-type lines were even shared between base classes), then you choose an advanced class, which adds new skills and spec-lines. While DAoC didn't have any-time respecs, there were times (when majors changes happened to those spec-lines) that respecs were available. However, there was no time when you could respec between advanced classes.

 

In fact, I don't know any game with a base class -> advanced class mechanic that allows respecs between advanced classes.

[morbidillusion]

Is Counter-strike a Massively Multiplayer? Yes, it has alot of servers with alot of people.

Only difference is that in Swtor, you can chat between the servers.

 

Is Counter-strike Online? Yes.

 

Is Counter-strike an MMO? No. Just a multiplayer game with alot of servers.

 

Only difference is that Swtor has a General chat between their servers. While CS or games like that usally doesn't.

 

 

Is Starcraft 2 a Massively Multiplayer? Yes.

 

Is Starcraft 2 Online? Yes.

 

Is Starcraft 2 an MMO? No. Again, it's a multiplayer game with alot of servers, dividing the players into different servers. Just like Swtor.

 

This guy's got it. Just because a lot of people play the game doesn't mean it's Massively Multiplayer. SWTOR is not an MMO - it doesn't even have the capabilities to run 20+ concurrent players on screen.

[Daeborn]

SWTOR is a MMO but tbf i feels like a single player game with an ability to group on occasion

 

Like WoW.

[Ituhata]

The dark / light side choices doesn't change your storyline.

DArk / light side options only makes your character look different and changes the options of the look of items later on in the game.

But it doesn't change your class storyline.

 

Tell that to all the people I've chosen to kill. It may not affect what happens next as far as where my story leads me but my storyline has certainly changed. Not to mention it defines my character.

[PjPablo]

Nice post. I agree with most of what you said. This game has more of a single player feel to it than an MMO. So much so that people really should stop comparing it to WOW. Diablo is probably a better comparison.

 

Doesn't mean it isn't a good game just that to me it isn't a MMO in the classic sense.