Roast-Beast Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 i say the 25 man ops groups should drop the same gear as battlemaster!!! oh wait no.... i dont.... oh the game the way it is.. is good? hard concept. initially i hated pvp "stats" wow had a stupid thing called resilience the dumbest stat of all mmo's in history of mmo's. bioware got it right with their pvp stats. Increased damage Increased damage taken, increased heals. *you get the gear from completing games not from being good at pvp.... if you want pvp gear go pvp. if i want raid gear i raid. thats why i have 2 sets. 50 - CM- BM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDerpDerp Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) Chaoslegion, I believe you missed my point, but this doesn't always convey tone the best. -BlightBattlemaster SorcererAjunta Pall Edited January 23, 2012 by DarthDerpDerp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halvos Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 They need to just remove gear from the equation completely in regards to PvP. Everyone's stats, depending on class, should be normalized to a certain point. Similar to how the bolster system works. This way PvP is actually based on skill. It fixes the problems of PvE people coming in and destroying everyone. It also makes it so new level 50's can jump right in and be competitive. They can reward PvP in some other way. Could still give gear with unique looks, titles, whatever else they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealAeiouy Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 People who don't understand expertise have to go... Go back to their protective pve bubble. Not a single person opposed to expertise has addressed the issues that cause expertise to be necessary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynan_Ski Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Honestly i would be happy with pvp rank and when you enter a WZ or lesser extent whatever Ilum is classified as (broke *** idea) you get expertise based on your rank but anywhere else in the world stick with what you got. Because every conversation on here sounds like.... You are still a god in pvp where as the pve guys are gods on thier side of the house. And isnt that what everyone who argues for Expertise wants is to feel like a god and **** and pillage all the new people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealAeiouy Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 No doubt lol - that was a bit of a stretch wasn't it... Gear makes ALL the difference. 25% more health, 10-25% more damage/defense... Anyone can get the gear with a trivial amount of effort. Having it so people have to actually pvp a little bit to get it is good. Having lazy pvers showing up in Warzones screwing things up because they play once a month is no good. It is good that people should prove an interest and desire to pvp to be good at it. If you can not play enough to get gear you are not some super skilled player being held back. People who think armor is why they get rolled are not skilled at Pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greennunu Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Skills to get geared, gear to get top spot. Right now everyone is in mad rush to get expertise on their gear, eventually stats will grow enough where min/maxing and getting too much expertise will be a bad thing. Eventually harder PvE content will come out and PvP gear in Operations will be trashy. If there is no discernable difference in gearing and you believe that the only thing that should matter in PvP is the timing of when you mash your keys then you can switch to a fighting game for all your PvP needs. Because I spent more time in PvP I do want to see a difference in my gear level than the others, it shows off my dedication to my field of gaming. Is it because I want to steam roll new PvP players and not give them a chance? absolutely, because if they can't handle a few beat down without quitting then I don't want them near me, they probably don't have the patience to learn and eventually be a crappy highly geared pvper. Same concept in PvE right? while skill (boss strategy) is important, you would want someone who is dedicated to that field and able to whipe and continue on without raging. You don't want some PvPer comming in and crapping all over your game,causing you to wipe and rage quit mid raid and leave your group stranded because he now thinks PvE is boring or just got the gear he needed and will now leave. Also making PvE gear and PvP gear comparable will lead to overgearing (even more so than it is now) and to be able to throttle that rate would be harder without forcing players to play both types. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halvos Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Anyone can get the gear with a trivial amount of effort. Having it so people have to actually pvp a little bit to get it is good. Having lazy pvers showing up in Warzones screwing things up because they play once a month is no good. It is good that people should prove an interest and desire to pvp to be good at it. If you can not play enough to get gear you are not some super skilled player being held back. People who think armor is why they get rolled are not skilled at Pvp. Except for the fact PvP gear is easier to get. Nice try though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynan_Ski Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 People who think armor is why they get rolled are not skilled at Pvp. Honestly i think i get rolled because of my max hp being about 12k without said gear and ppl with the gear crit me for half that in 1 skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwal Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 People who don't understand expertise have to go... Go back to their protective pve bubble. Not a single person opposed to expertise has addressed the issues that cause expertise to be necessary I have 3 times in this thread, maybe you should read it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rivnen Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 It isn't there to make the difference in "old" and "new" PVP players. It is so that hardcore PVP players with a full set of battlemaster gear can still compete with hardcore raiders in PVP. Full Rakata gear is noticably better then full battlemaster gear. The expertise on the battlemaster gear is to try and even that out in a PVP situation. So, with that in mind, a new PVP player could have been a long term raider going into warzones with full rakata gear and dominate players with full battlemaster gear despite have 0 expertise to there 10%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyspectre Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 My pointis that i want to pvp not raid and not get craped on by someone who raids And that is why there is expertise. You have 3 options for setting up pvp gearing in an mmo: 1. No Pvp Stat (people who have spent a lot of time raiding outgear everyone) 2. Pvp Stat (Resiliance/Expertise/Valor, etc) (people who spend a lot of time pvping outgear everyone) 3. No gear progression at all. (PvP is dead and no one does it because there is no reward) Pick your poisen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halvos Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 And that is why there is expertise. You have 3 options for setting up pvp gearing in an mmo: 1. No Pvp Stat (people who have spent a lot of time raiding outgear everyone) 2. Pvp Stat (Resiliance/Expertise/Valor, etc) (people who spend a lot of time pvping outgear everyone) 3. No gear progression at all. (PvP is dead and no one does it because there is no reward) Pick your poisen Option 4. Normalize stats so gear is irrelevant in warzones. Reward PvPing some other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynan_Ski Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 It isn't there to make the difference in "old" and "new" PVP players. It is so that hardcore PVP players with a full set of battlemaster gear can still compete with hardcore raiders in PVP. Full Rakata gear is noticably better then full battlemaster gear. The expertise on the battlemaster gear is to try and even that out in a PVP situation. So, with that in mind, a new PVP player could have been a long term raider going into warzones with full rakata gear and dominate players with full battlemaster gear despite have 0 expertise to there 10%. Just the lack of disparity between the 2 sides of the house is what gets me i realize it is early in game and ppl have stated when harder pve content comes out pvp gear will be less usefull for it. But whats to say they wont boost the expertise stats with the next set of gear because it was made painfully obvious that pvp player want gear progression over rank progression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynan_Ski Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 And that is why there is expertise. You have 3 options for setting up pvp gearing in an mmo: 1. No Pvp Stat (people who have spent a lot of time raiding outgear everyone) 2. Pvp Stat (Resiliance/Expertise/Valor, etc) (people who spend a lot of time pvping outgear everyone) 3. No gear progression at all. (PvP is dead and no one does it because there is no reward) Pick your poisen Option 5 New players are discouraged from pvp, pvp populations stagnates current population slowly bleeds out --- PVP IS DEAD... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegathegreat Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Option 4. Normalize stats so gear is irrelevant in warzones. Reward PvPing some other way. No and No, the point of gearing up and progress of your toon is to become stronger then everyone else. What is the point in being the same, a hero in movie isnt the same as the rest of the tools they kill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halvos Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 No and No, the point of gearing up and progress of your toon is to become stronger then everyone else. What is the point in being the same, a hero in movie isnt the same as the rest of the tools they kill. Except when that gear comes from raids, right? It's more fun to have a fair competition then it is to have a system reward based on grinding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoobings Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Any MMO that has taken steps to neutralize the impact of gear in their respective battlegrounds or whatever has seen a lot of complaints and people avoiding that game mode. People want their gear to have an impact because they worked to earn it. However, as long as gear is taken into the equation you will always have this "problem." This is the nature of MMOs and it isn't the expertise stat, it's just the fact that they out gear you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDutch Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Any MMO that has taken steps to neutralize the impact of gear in their respective battlegrounds or whatever has seen a lot of complaints and people avoiding that game mode. People want their gear to have an impact because they worked to earn it. Except for SWTOR in the 10-49 bracket where PvP is less broken than 50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynan_Ski Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 ^^ Agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wixxkruppel Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) and for all those who are gonna say then make the pvp gear the same stats at pve gear im going to say, then there would be no reason to raid people would just get pvp gear cause its alot easier to join a wz then to get a group together and when they were all decked out they would run the last raid and finish it easily thats why the dont make pvp gear the same... You don't seem to realize "raid" gear in this game is already completely obsolete vs. pvp gear. There is absolutely no incentive or reason to do anything involving hard mode flashpoints/nightmare operations beyond carbonized crystal alloy (whatever the fk) crafting mat. Edited January 23, 2012 by wixxkruppel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalmeseReb Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Except for SWTOR in the 10-49 bracket where PvP is less broken than 50. So just keep playing in that 10-49 bracket if you cant handle the heat in the 50 bracket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrones Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Except for SWTOR in the 10-49 bracket where PvP is less broken than 50. Sure, go pve without gear then \o/ Everything is fine then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynan_Ski Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 You don't seem to realize "raid" gear in this game is already completely obsolete vs. pvp gear. There is absolutely no incentive or reason to do anything involving hard mode flashpoints/nightmare operations beyond carbonized crystal alloy (whatever the fk) crafting mat. Also Agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rufix Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 It's a stupid stat, and bad for the game. you are right it must go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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