Best MMO PvP you ever played?

[Kryptorchid]

And around 1997, at least on Lake Superior, it was the Dreads versus everybody else, but the Dreads were the only ones who actually knew how to PvP, because they did it all the time. It did not matter how many irate Blues rolled up to the Crossroads to "teach those ganker kiddies a lesson," they always ended up dead and naked on the ground.

 

Age of Conan was broken in more ways than I can count, but I do have to give props to its melee combat system -- moderately aim-based with the combo requirements meant that there was an actual skill gap. In melee vs. melee, skill dominated. Fun times.

 

Now that Age of Conan is Free-To-Play, I have checked it out again, and by God, is that melee combat system a thing of beauty. In addition to your comments, the nuance of combo cancelling really added a high skill-curve to the game. Just unfortunate caster mechanics were an afterthought and couldn't be as fun. I still log into my Conqueror from time to time.

[Alicar]

My favorite is darkfall online. Though it was buggy and now there aren't many people playing, it is a *********** amazing game. Instanceless huge world, player controlled economy litteraly, full loot dropping. No levels, fun pve. Can take cities, alliances have purpose, amazing game.

[mminczes]

What stakes?

 

It's an electronic game that costs $14.95 and I'm pretty sure item loss doesn't stop someone from logging in and playing.

 

In the games that you're referring to, the gear was designed such that their loss wasn't a huge deal like it would be if you lost Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker.

 

 

 

 

You know what else creates tension? Losing a relic. Or better yet, trying to carry a relic solo across 2 frontier zones when 200 enemy players are looking for you. Pretty sure carrying the hopes of 400 realmmates on your shoulders as you hoof it across the wilderness gives you a better high than "oh no, I could lose my gloves".

 

And yet DAOC is 'carebear'. Despite, of course, plastering your IRS, RR, and RP/week on an external website for the world to see.

 

 

The only reason why losing gear "creates" tension is because gear 'matters' (to you, and to other lootwhore/carebears). Tension, at the end of the day, is the potential loss of something that matters.

 

You're not hardcore. You're a sadistic carebear, because gear pixels give you a stiffy, and losing gear makes you mad.

You're making assumptions about me. First of all, I never said a word about DAoC. I played the **** out of that game and loved every second in the frontier. DAoC was excellent because the PVP was worth a damn. Winning a victory meant something, it impacted all of the other players in the realm.

 

Second, I never called anybody a carebear or claimed to be hardcore, I just said that a pvp gamewith some sort of repercussion/reward system is greater than one without one (SWTOR).

 

Third, get off my dick. Losing items you've worked hard for will frustrate anyone. Sadistic carebear? **** yeah I get affected, and so do you apparently.

Edited January 5, 2012 by mminczes

[AriasImmortal]

Because at the end of the day, ego is the #1 reason to PvP. Unless you think that stroking your sadistic side has any relevance to PvP.

 

 

THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS.

 

I PvP because I have an ego, because I want to beat people (especially people I know), because I want to be THE GUY. I hate losing, I love winning, no matter what the stakes are. Monopoly, ****** console FPS, poker, MMOs, starcraft, basketball, soccer, shuffleboard, I DON'T CARE WHAT THE GAME IS, I don't care what's on the line, winning is all that matters.

 

If you need extra incentive to compete then you're doing it wrong. The competition itself is what matters, not what you gain or lose from it.

[EasymodeX]

Age of Conan was broken in more ways than I can count, but I do have to give props to its melee combat system -- moderately aim-based with the combo requirements meant that there was an actual skill gap. In melee vs. melee, skill dominated. Fun times.

 

Yeah. It would have been so much better if it weren't so amazingly and astonishingly broken for the first 6 months. When people figured out gems and understood deathblow calculations, oh-my-god the game was so phenominally stupid. The actual shield and positional mechanics were solid (an evolution off of DAOC positional and ability chains from my perspective).

 

First game where the balance and scaling made me "holy **** this is *********** retarded" IRL.

 

For those that have a hard time understanding, the the first era of AOC was a game where you could have a mage class that could stun someone for 12 seconds straight, and that was UNDERPOWERED, because other classes could literally 1-shot you instantly from 20 meters away. And a stealth class could 1-shot you from stealth after a 1.0 second delay.

[upzie]

TOR got potential, they just need to fix the right things, and listen to the community.

 

I enjoyed Burning Crusade pvp, WAR 20-30 pvp.

[thejaga]

Now that Age of Conan is Free-To-Play, I have checked it out again, and by God, is that melee combat system a thing of beauty. In addition to your comments, the nuance of combo cancelling really added a high skill-curve to the game. Just unfortunate caster mechanics were an afterthought and couldn't be as fun. I still log into my Conqueror from time to time.

 

Caster mechanics also killed part of the skill curve -- offering an easy-mode alternative to some players. (Unless they changed the caster/ranged mechanics after I quit, which was fairly early on.)

 

Not an MMO, but Savage II (by the makers of HoN) has an FPS/RPG-style combat system that was a true thing of beauty. Simple enough that it could be incorporated into an MMO, but would not appeal to the masses because it was insanely skill-based (i.e. able to win 1v5s+, pulling things you could not even do in a noob free-for-all server in most modern FPS games).

[EasymodeX]

Savage 2 is only awesome if you never played pre-SEP Savage 1.

 

Keke, but still solid.

 

I pulled so many all-nighters with Savage 1. Ach.

[AriasImmortal]

I don't understand all the fascination with gear, whether reward gear, or looting people in PvP. Gear is only a means to an end, another way to improve your character. It's only value is contained in its ability to increase your chances of winning, and individual skill is far more important than gear towards that end. Why should it matter if you lose gear in PvP? I'd be more upset that I lost PERIOD, that I died to someone I probably consider myself to be superior to, than the fact that I lost a (probably) easy to replace piece of gear.

[thejaga]

Savage 2 is only awesome if you never played pre-SEP Savage 1.

 

Keke, but still solid.

 

I pulled so many all-nighters with Savage 1. Ach.

 

I def missed out on Savage 1. I started playing Savage 2 after it was already a dead game. Such a a sad loss that the game was not more popular, would have been amazing for competition.

 

Re: AOC one-shotting. I played a Barbarian, and I once 3x one-shotted a group of Level 80's in a 1v3 thanks to the Fatality mechanic, which made you invulnerable for the length of the animation, and then gave you a nice little buff once it completed. Nonetheless, other players were arguing at the time that Barbarians were balanced...

Edited January 5, 2012 by thejaga

[Akabeth]

Guild Wars here.

[DuceHason]

I don't understand all the fascination with gear, whether reward gear, or looting people in PvP. Gear is only a means to an end, another way to improve your character. It's only value is contained in its ability to increase your chances of winning, and individual skill is far more important than gear towards that end. Why should it matter if you lose gear in PvP? I'd be more upset that I lost PERIOD, that I died to someone I probably consider myself to be superior to, than the fact that I lost a (probably) easy to replace piece of gear.

 

It's not about the gear. Wanting to loot another persons gear in PvP is another way to say you bested them. It also adds a 'risk - reward' to the PvP arena. If you've NEVER played an MMO where this is life than you cannot understand it. The thrill of it is far greater. The fear of defeat, the joy of victory. Go play EVE, UO and come back. You'll see, you'll be hooked. If not... the Carebear stare club is always looking for new recruits.

[Lamentari]

Ilum has potential if they make the capture points an actual challenge it could work out. They could even add spots on planets to capture. DAOC got a lot of love in this thread BW should take a page from that game.

[Torothin]

I support the above message. Eve-Online was very mean but very hard core.

[Sixil]

DAoC was the best PvP game that I have ever played. Still one of the best games available today - it never get's old because the fights are never the same. Your character is pretty much only as good as you are as well.

[Cutemoff]

Aoc for me. I loved how a good player could take out a whole group of noobs.

 

But i never did get to play Daoc.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Cutemoff

[FuzzPop]

Utlima Online is still the only pvp that ever mattered. You loot what you kill. You could war anyone, kill anyone and lose everything. "Support classes" that allowed stupid, slow players to use half their class abilities didn't exist.

 

To be honest? Everything since UO has been pvp light. Just a gear grind with stacking of the best comp/specs. In this game it happens to be healers/tanks.

 

Will I still play it? Yes cus their is nothing else to play and I don't have to deal with aimbots/speedhacks near as much in a game where people have to level and risk losing their crap if they cheat.

 

If they released a new UO pre uor with updated graphics I would play it in a second. Problem? The crying on this board would be nowhere close to the crying on that game. The first time someone died and lose their crap they would quit. The game couldn't make money, because all these kids were raised by Barney.

 

When in doubt blame Barney. Stupid dinosaur.

 

OK I've got more to add to this.

 

It's not simply a change in MMO's. It's a complete shift in gaming, period.

 

You remember the days of 3 lives and limited continues? You remember the days of how, if you died, your body didn't get back up where it died. You restarted from the very beginning of the level, or if you're lucky, a checkpoint, but that didn't mean anything past the checkpoint was trivial. And if you used up all your lives, you started right back to Stage 3-1(even though you died on the boss at 3-3). And you'd have to run through the entire level all over again. And to make things even more memorable, the best weapon against the boss would be had at 3-1, so you'd have to effectively make it all the way to the boss with 1 man.

 

We're talking about games such as the original Ghosts N' Goblins, Castlevania 1, Ninja Gaiden, etc. Games with such punishing difficulty that you had to play the game repeatedly in order to master it.

 

Those good ol' days from the late 1980's - 1990's are long gone. Gaming had since evolved. Gaming companies started realizing that players wanted the ability to continue. To be able to save their game. To pick up where they left off, and didn't have the time to play the entire game through in one sitting. People also wanted to be able to adjust the game's difficulty settings.

 

The point I'm getting at here is, games like UO, Darkfall, Meridian 59 with full loot systems are quickly becoming a thing of the past. Why? Because just like the old days of NES/Sega Master System days are simply phasing away, these "hard core" mechanics are simply too punishing for the everyday Joe who simply wants to pick up a game, play it, and retain some sense of continuity.

 

But there is one thing that no MMO has dared try to do yet. And you know what that is?

 

Diablo 2's Hard Core mode. One death = EVERYTHING GONE. No recovery, nada. No resurrection.

 

THAT would be the hardest core of the hard core.

[Sandmanmr]

SWTOR, seriously though for an mmo on launch its pretty polished. Now more warzones would be nice, bioware posted a screenshot of one coming next month so thats good. And now that they announced more empire vs empire pvp we can expect possibly even more warzones than that one new one?

[gevrik]

Asheron's Call Darktide

Ultima Online Pre-Trammel

Shadowbane

 

My Top 3.

[BigBooRRTX]

Ultima Online Pre-Trammel

Asheron's Call Darktide

[Dabrixmgp]

World of Warcraft

 

/thread

 

Cant tell if serious.

 

 

Ultima Online hands down. Nothing beats PKing some n00b then going to loot him and finding his house key and recall rune. Before they limited the number of houses you could own I had at least 20 from PKing. Any game where you cant loot your kills is fail. I mean if you were a soldier in a real war and just killed a guy would you seriously leave his weapons and gear behind so his buddies could use it?

[Fraeg]

OK

 

But there is one thing that no MMO has dared try to do yet. And you know what that is?

 

Diablo 2's Hard Core mode. One death = EVERYTHING GONE. No recovery, nada. No resurrection.

 

THAT would be the hardest core of the hard core.

 

 

Everquest 1 did have a Zek server where IIRC you got 3 deaths then that was it.

[gevrik]

Yeah UO was awesome before it was trammeled. Asheron's Call tops it for me, though, since it was 3D instead of isometric so character controls figured into the player skill a lot more than in UO. :-)

 

EVE Online also has awesome PvP, but it's not a traditional third person MMO.

[Dabrixmgp]

Everquest 1 did have a Zek server where IIRC you got 3 deaths then that was it.

 

 

Wasnt a real server. They added it just for lolz lasted like a week or 2.

[AriasImmortal]

It's not about the gear. Wanting to loot another persons gear in PvP is another way to say you bested them. It also adds a 'risk - reward' to the PvP arena. If you've NEVER played an MMO where this is life than you cannot understand it. The thrill of it is far greater. The fear of defeat, the joy of victory. Go play EVE, UO and come back. You'll see, you'll be hooked. If not... the Carebear stare club is always looking for new recruits.

 

I played EVE and it was the most boring thing I've ever played in my life. Played it enough to the point where I could fly stealth bombers and I will probably never play it again. I prefer MMOs with twitch elements, the whole dropdown menu thing turned me off pretty hard.

 

There's no real "risk-reward" factor with loot. Gear is easy to get in EVERY GAME EVER, gear is generally not the major determining factor in who wins or loses so losing or gaining gear isn't horribly important, and individual pieces of gear themselves have an even more minimal impact. Also, gear that did require a lot of time/effort to get and actually had an impact (ala legendaries in WoW), you could just put in your bank and not bring with you if there was any chance of losing it, further minimizing risk.

 

If you want real risk-reward you'd be asking for things like perma-death or skill loss, not gear.

 

My personal opinion is that bragging rights are far more important than gear. I'd much rather have the ability to talk trash because I beat someone than their gear that's probably either equivalent or worse than mine anyway. And if I lost to someone I'd be far more pissed off that I'd lost than losing any gear.