Can Shadows really dps?

[Teferin]

So my question is, because I keep seeing all these different opinions everywhere is, is the pvp infiltration build actually any good, or is the only purpose of this class to tank and ONLY tank. I sometimes feel as if I dont do enough damage in fights but im curious to see if this class is basicly only a tank and cannot run well as a dps class.

[Wefi]

I seen Shadows do both at the same time.

[Kitru]

Infil and Balance are both completely functional DPS specs. I think Kinetic Combat gets the most attention because people aren't sure if it can actually tank (it can), and there's a lot of debate about the numbers.

[Teferin]

Infil and Balance are both completely functional DPS specs. I think Kinetic Combat gets the most attention because people aren't sure if it can actually tank (it can), and there's a lot of debate about the numbers.

 

so both infiltration shadow can also run as a dps/tank?

[Kitru]

so both infiltration shadow can also run as a dps/tank?

 

No. Neither Infil nor Balance will be functional tanks for anything except for outlier leveling cases, just as Kinetic Combat won't really be an effective DPS either. Kinetic Combat is for tanking. Infil and Balance are for DPS. If you attempt to do both (which I've seen people try), you end up sucking at both.

[Requimo]

No. Neither Infil nor Balance will be functional tanks for anything except for outlier leveling cases, just as Kinetic Combat won't really be an effective DPS either. Kinetic Combat is for tanking. Infil and Balance are for DPS. If you attempt to do both (which I've seen people try), you end up sucking at both.

 

Very true. Infil or balance can't tank. Kinetic shadows can't dps effectively BUT Kinetic shadows do the most dps out of all the tanks. That's why a Kinetic shadow is a 1v1 beast.

[Teferin]

So then which happens to better infiltration or balance?

[Kitru]

So then which happens to better infiltration or balance?

 

Infil is gonna level better starting off but by the 30s, its overtaken by Balance with its self healing.

 

For PvP, Infil is generally considered to be better since it has more burst capability

For endgame PvE, they're pretty much equivalent.

[Skeptical]

I can't speak for the third tree that shall not be named, but I've played Kinetic Combat and Infiltration.

 

I started out leveling Infiltration and maybe that's why I didn't keep my Kinetic Combat build for very long, that and I all ready have a Defense specced Guardian and I like the animations much more than the Kinetic stuff.

 

If you don't think that Infiltration Shadows put out really good DPS you should play through the same planet with a different class. It will highlight just how fast you chew through content. Granted, I went from Defense Guardian tank to Infiltration Shadow DPS, which is why it seems to stand out so much to me.

 

While I was playing Kinetic I definitely put out more DPS than my Guardian tank and it was very noticeable.

 

In group settings, running Flashpoints at roughly the same levels, with me playing as DPS and the rest of the group in the appropriate level range for the encounters, I feel like I've gone through the content at a much faster pace.

 

Stats wise, I've done DPS comparisons and with just raw base weapon damage+power bonus damage, my Shadow's DPS is very high. At level 32 my base+bonus was higher than my level 39 Defense Guardian's. Not by much, but it will be by the time I hit the same level.

 

I think that Infiltration has the potential to be great DPS, HOWEVER the spec demands that you pay attention and use the appropriate skill and the appropriate time.

 

If you use your skills when the procs are right you maximize your DPS by conservatively managing your resources. You've also got to train yourself to use the in combat Force regen and during that cool down use your Vanish ability (can't remember the name off hand), that way you have your just coming out of stealth regen bonus up 3 times or more during long encounters.

 

While it's up you can burst very heavily and still be able to interrupt with a few different skills.

 

Also at 32 or 33 you get Spinning Slash which can only be used on an enemy with less than 30% HP. I think it should be 35% but whatever. Regardless it hits like a semi and it's awesome for that last bit of burst when everyone is starting to run dry.

 

So long story short, Infiltration is the business. I love it. I was all set to tank until I played it and now I can't seem to make myself want to go back to tanking. That is until I'm getting groups together and can't find a tank. haha

Edited January 3, 2012 by Skeptical

[Teferin]

ok thanks guys for the help. everywhere I look it seems I find round a bout answers and nothing quite just hey its this end of story

[Teferin]

ok sorry one more question guys, what specs do you run for infiltration pvp. From everything Ive checked out most dont put the full 31 points into infil. so what are u guys playing, if its from the stickied tread at the top then my question is are u running the build that is the standard pvp or the one thats pvp upheaval?

[Erzoul]

So long story short, Infiltration is the business. I love it.

 

Could not agree more, i was beginning to question my tactics around lvl 30 because i felt i was lacking damage/survive in pvp. (like all do when it's not realy their day) Trying out different specs etc, but i find the Infiltration tree to realy stick out from other classes and provide just the right amount of flow mixed with awsome looking and performing abilities - damage is realy not a problem in pvp/pve.

 

I may add that the class i kinda gear dependant, because of light armor and few dmg mitigating abilities. But again, we are light armored powerhouses not meant to stand in the thick of it, but rather pick our fights.

 

It's all about the understanding of your talent tree, abilites and ofcourse - playstyle.

[Erzoul]

ok sorry one more question guys, what specs do you run for infiltration pvp. From everything Ive checked out most dont put the full 31 points into infil. so what are u guys playing, if its from the stickied tread at the top then my question is are u running the build that is the standard pvp or the one thats pvp upheaval?

 

 

Don't just follow the stream, branch out

 

Try different things, myself - going for heavy infiltration build, putting remainer points into first few talents in kinetic combat for armor penetration, more dmg with basic attacks and a few in balance for crit and force breach damage.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Erzoul

[PaveTheWay]

Infil spec is for people with more than half a brain.

 

If you struggle managing procs and dont keybind, you will fail completely as shadow{infil' mainly}.

 

 

IMO, playing every class to 30+ (and playing mate's accounts with 50's to try them out, also having a BH merc' myself to 50) it's probably the highest dps class, if not its deffinatly close - however, it can also be the worst if you are new to MMO's or a rogue-based classes.

[Veimi]

Infiltration succeeds most enjoyably in dps role. You actually have to actively acknowledge your next move which separates the bad and good players. I've seen shadows suck in groups with me as dps when I'm doing almost twice the damage, roughly of course.

[venomania]

I'm not sure if this is useful or not but I was passing by the forums and noticed the thread. My friend has some concerns, the same as yourself. So he asked me to go fight some mobs and throw it on youtube so he can see. I figure even if it isnt exactly what you're after you can use to as a reference and compare with other classes.

Shadow Vs Group Vid

[kkwZero]

As a level 50 Shadow i can tell you that 2/31/8 (upheval) is superior to the armor piercing variant,, especialy in pvp, because all your talents that affect project also affect the second project that is procced by upheval.

 

You will hardly notice the 9% armor piercing, especialy on low armor classes, but upheval is a burst that simply kills stuff, in in pve or pvp.

 

Especialy when your equipment gets more and more purple you will see how nice project/upheval scales.

[sildoor]

I'm not sure if this is useful or not but I was passing by the forums and noticed the thread. My friend has some concerns, the same as yourself. So he asked me to go fight some mobs and throw it on youtube so he can see. I figure even if it isnt exactly what you're after you can use to as a reference and compare with other classes.

Shadow Vs Group Vid

 

what gear do you have ? I was doing alot more damage then u at that level .. cs was criting for 850-950 at lvl 40 .. (full blue pvp gear with crit+surge rating ftw) yours seems to crit for 600 :/

[Skeptical]

Infil spec is for people with more than half a brain.

 

If you struggle managing procs and dont keybind, you will fail completely as shadow{infil' mainly}.

 

 

IMO, playing every class to 30+ (and playing mate's accounts with 50's to try them out, also having a BH merc' myself to 50) it's probably the highest dps class, if not its deffinatly close - however, it can also be the worst if you are new to MMO's or a rogue-based classes.

 

Which is why the OP keeps getting "round about" answers or whatever. I think class performance is a very subjective thing. Different classes are going to click harder for different people. If people would stop trying to research the "best" class and spec and just find what works best for them I think MMORPGers would be much more happy in general.

 

A lot of instances where people have issues with class performance stems from trying to shoehorn someone else's play style into their own, instead of exploring the game's content until the right class clicks.

 

I have a friend who has played every class that he gets wind of maybe sorta kind of being OP in PvP. I know that once he finds the most OP class and starts to level it seriously it will probably be nerfed and/or adjusted. He'll then get pissy and talk about quitting and probably go back to WoW or some other game. He does it in every single MMORPG that comes out.

 

If he'd just alter his frame of mind to find the class that he enjoys the most for not just gameplay reasons but also aesthetically, he would be more content with his class choice and therefore more content with the game overall.

 

I know that may seem like another "generalized" answer but it really isn't.

[venomania]

what gear do you have ? I was doing alot more damage then u at that level .. cs was criting for 850-950 at lvl 40 .. (full blue pvp gear with crit+surge rating ftw) yours seems to crit for 600 :/

 

I didn't crit in that clip it's all basic damage. I'm in purple/Orange gear with Will-Crit-Surge mods. My intent wasn't to show a montage of high end crits it was to show a very normal fight with normal damage so the op can asses the average. I'm more than happy to make a montage of high end crits, but that would only work towards stroking my ego and would be of no use to anyone else :<

 

Screenshot *I'm higher level now but same basic stat %'s*

[Rephlexie]

Level 50 Shadow Inf here in full Champion just about (Missing Saber and legs >.<) and yes we can DPS alright hehe.

 

I went with Crit-Power-Surge stacking. My highest crit so far with Trinkets is in the 4.6k range. Nothing compared to some of the Imp dmg I have seen, but it really is a wonderful class to play in PvP and PvE.

 

I chose it for a PvE role, but PvP is just as fun. You will be the unsung hero in Warzones, often in the endzone, capping station, ninjaing doors and if you want to uncan the heat, you can easily do so Damage done wise.

 

The spec does has its downfalls, currently some of the key abilities are a bit borked, such as Shadow Strike not working at all on Player Characters, Tumult broken etc etc. It also is a bit confused once you get to 50. Jedi Shadow Infiltration just doesnt exactly know what it wants to be. Does it want to be a force based damage dealer or does it want to be Melee. You need to choose that for yourself really. I went Melee for the most part, so my rotation is to start with some mean openers, stack up the buffs and finish with my project and Force breach.

 

We also are a fantastic shutdown class. I can effectively stunlock someone or something (No droids) for as long as I want. I often Mind Maze someone guarding an objective and cap it right in front of them, then proceed to really rub it in their face by force cloaking, whirlwind, mind snap and force stunning. It demoralizes gladiators.

 

PvE wise, we do just fine, i am one of the principle DPS members of my guild and we are doing fine in hard modes.

 

One word of warning if you go Infiltration, be prepared to pay and ar and a leg moving around high level mods. There is plenty of tanking gear, but Light melee DPS gear is harder to find and you will have to be diligent about making your own based on your own playstyle.

 

I can answer anyone's questions. I've been 50 for a while with my shadow and wouldnt ditch it for the world.

[Tytra]

Honestly, for pvp its based on your skill level. I've spent over 100k respec builds and currently I use a different from norm build. I have tried everything and honestly any can dps as long as you have a good skill rotation. The hard thing about shadows is the complexity of using the right skills at the right times. Once you mastered that you will be good to go. I would honestly find a skill tree that you like and learn how to use it properly.

 

Just my two cents

 

Juyo-Tiamat-50 consular shadow