Scondrels & Operatives remind me of Rangers in DAoC

[Gratus_Mortuus]

Back in the day I was a ranger in Hibernia and. For those that don't know, Rangers were Hibernia's bow user and as with all bow users in that game at that time were grossly over-powered. The reason we were OP was because we could kill any enemy player quite a few levels above us from stealth and "if" by some fluke we didn't, we could "jet away" with a skill I don't recall the name of and just restealth.

 

The class needed to be nerfed. At the time I suggested simply disabling the "speed away" after combat and similar ideas that would still keep the Ranger viable but not as silly as it was. Unfortunately, Mythic went too far as is usual but that's another story.

 

You operatives and scoundrels are so over powered it's sad. For PvE players; who cares? But for PvP players, it's a major issue. And by the way, please don't even talk to me about warzones. Your classes are issues there but that's not the main problem. It is in open world pvp where you can simply pick off targets all day long with no chance of losing and the victim dying before he/she can even get off the floor.

 

Scoundrels and Operatives need to be fixed.

 

Unfortunately, due to what I've seen so far; the lack of BW feedback and such, and being told this was made very clear to BW during closed beta and still nothing changed, I'll have to roll one and kill cause as much misery as possible until more of the players either complain or quit. It shouldn't require this for change, and shocked BW doesn't have a PvP team of Devs who either "care" or "know" what they are doing.

 

-Gratus

[LeonKeyh]

Ready? Here's the big secret to defeating an Operative/Scoundrel if they jump you.

 

1. Use Control Break

2. Turn around.

3. Stun them

4. ???

5. Profit. Free kill.

[Dairinis]

1. Use Control Break

2. Turn around.

3. Stun them

4. ???

5. Profit. Free kill.

 

Then they use their "Control Break" and hit you with their 4s stun which you don't have a chance of getting out of. DEAD.

 

I get killed so often by scoundrels/operatives in the opening stun it's not funny. 15k hp, 300 expertise and I'm dead in 3-4 seconds. This is at level 50 of course.

[JowyyKazza]

i think the biggest problem is that they can do 300k damage and 100k healing and its just another game for them, the biggest problem i think with pvp and im sure most will argue im wrong but its that someone who picks purely dps can still heal really well, if a dps class cant heal then they die easier, but if they can just stealth, heal up and then face plant u on the ground while you try to figure why your shoe laces became untied

 

i've faced good operatives and average operatives and the average ones can still do well if your not careful, and i dunno the skill trees well but im guessing they can still go 30m max range on yah if they wish to, as a jedi shadow, i acn goto 30m with on eability, my opener does like 100 damage and i cant heal myself without stimming like mad

[Fufy]

Ready? Here's the big secret to defeating an Operative/Scoundrel if they jump you.

 

1. Use Control Break

2. Turn around.

3. Stun them

4. ???

5. Profit. Free kill.

 

So, should i always die if my control break is on CD? it's fair i guess being killed cause 1 of my skill is on cooldown.

 

And of course, your operative doesn't have a control break either huh? or any kind of vanish to reopen you some seconds after your first control break?

 

Stupid design is stupid.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Fufy

[Glor_]

Then they use their "Control Break" and hit you with their 4s stun which you don't have a chance of getting out of. DEAD.

 

I get killed so often by scoundrels/operatives in the opening stun it's not funny. 15k hp, 300 expertise and I'm dead in 3-4 seconds. This is at level 50 of course.

 

They CANT stun you after that, since their openers filled YOUR ENTIRE resolve bar... How long will it take for people to stop spreading nonsense on this forum?

[Varnithis]

They CANT stun you after that, since their openers filled YOUR ENTIRE resolve bar... How long will it take for people to stop spreading nonsense on this forum?

 

You are 100% correct.

 

The issue of resolve not working all the time is in fact seperate from Scoundral's/Op's.

[MorluCa]

They CANT stun you after that, since their openers filled YOUR ENTIRE resolve bar... How long will it take for people to stop spreading nonsense on this forum?

 

So they wait 15 seconds to kill you or open on you anytime in the next 2 minutes to kill you. Stop being a little troll and enjoy your Operative/Scoundrel being OP while you can.

[Halja]

They CANT stun you after that, since their openers filled YOUR ENTIRE resolve bar... How long will it take for people to stop spreading nonsense on this forum?

 

This is true, however it's still a non-point due to the fact that your stun opener also does insane damage with very little opportunity cost.

 

Compare to Spinning kick for example, which costs 30% of an assassin/shadow force bar, hits for for about 300 damage, and stuns for 2 seconds, compared to something that costs(30?) energy, stuns for 3 seconds, crits upwards of 3500, with a huge crit bonus chance to crit, and most likely will apply a decent dot(flechette/acid blade).

 

Different classes are different, etc, but this is just one glaring example of how grossly overpowered shoot first is with the supporting talents.

 

But please, continue to pretend you are outplaying others.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Halja

[Varnithis]

So they wait 15 seconds to kill you or open on you anytime in the next 2 minutes to kill you. Stop being a little troll and enjoy your Operative/Scoundrel being OP while you can.

 

If you haven't completely recovered in the 15 seconds of immunity you have or killed them or had a team mate assist, the problem isn't the Op/Scoundral.

[WickedDemiurge]

Then they use their "Control Break" and hit you with their 4s stun which you don't have a chance of getting out of. DEAD.

 

I get killed so often by scoundrels/operatives in the opening stun it's not funny. 15k hp, 300 expertise and I'm dead in 3-4 seconds. This is at level 50 of course.

 

And I just thought this was a function of going into BGs pre-50. 5.2K crits from stealth are not good design.

[Glor_]

This is true, however it's still a non-point due to the fact that your stun opener also does insane damage with very little opportunity cost.

 

Compare to Spinning kick for example, which costs 30% of an assassin/shadow force bar, hits for for about 300 damage, and stuns for 2 seconds, compared to something that costs(30?) energy, stuns for 3 seconds, crits upwards of 3500, with a huge crit bonus chance to crit, and most likely will apply a decent dot(flechette/acid blade).

 

Different classes are different, etc, but this is just one glaring example of how grossly overpowered shoot first is with the supporting talents.

 

But please, continue to pretend you are outplaying others.

 

I'm not pretending anything. I was just correcting a fact, but please continue to pretend to know what i think or do. I didn't raise an opinion on the current op state, i was just stating how game mechanics work.

[LeonKeyh]

So, should i always die if my control break is on CD? it's fair i guess being killed cause 1 of my skill is on cooldown.

 

And of course, your operative doesn't have a control break either huh? or any kind of vanish to reopen you some seconds after your first control break?

 

Stupid design is stupid.

 

First, the stun isn't necessary and just gets them to fumble for their control break if it is up.

 

Second, DoTs and well placed non-targetted/ground targetted AEs make vanish worthless.

 

Third, The opening attack completely fills your resolve bar, and you can't be stunned/knocked down again for a good long while. (Not in the quoted post, but someone said it before)

 

The long and short of it is, without the 4 second stun from Hidden Strike/Shoot First, they'll lose the fight with someone with half a brain.

 

I'm not saying it doesn't need tweaked, but they're hardly the godly unstoppable force everyone makes them out to be, they're a 1 trick pony.

Edited January 3, 2012 by LeonKeyh

[Lokai]

So, should i always die if my control break is on CD? it's fair i guess being killed cause 1 of my skill is on cooldown.

 

And of course, your operative doesn't have a control break either huh? or any kind of vanish to reopen you some seconds after your first control break?

 

Stupid design is stupid.

 

actually way pvp is... take WoW for example as a warlock if my trinket is on cooldown i'm a free kill to rogues and that was balanced in that game to. Same for CoH/V as well, if i have no stealth detection inspirations then a stalker will shred me because i will never see him coming... is just how mmo's work. Cooldowns are vital but this is what groups are for suppose to be there to help you. A single healer can shield you, stun the op or even i think clense the CC.

 

this is working as intended....

[Psytic]

Rangers weren't even that bad. Scouts had a shield stun that lasted 9 seconds lol

[Dwarfy]

First, the stun isn't necessary and just gets them to fumble for their control break if it is up.

 

Second, DoTs and well placed non-targetted/ground targetted AEs make vanish worthless.

 

Third, The opening attack completely fills your resolve bar, and you can't be stunned/knocked down again for a good long while. (Not in the quoted post, but someone said it before)

 

The long and short of it is, without the 4 second stun from Hidden Strike/Shoot First, they'll lose the fight with someone with half a brain.

 

I'm not saying it doesn't need tweaked, but they're hardly the godly unstoppable force everyone makes them out to be, they're a 1 trick pony.

 

I play a Jedi Sage. And even i agree with this guy right here...

[Krimefighter]

 

Second, DoTs and well placed non-targetted/ground targetted AEs make vanish worthless.

 

 

Except they dont becuase the ability that removes DoT effects is on an even lower cd than vanish.

[Alwaysthirsty]

i think the biggest problem is that they can do 300k damage and 100k healing and its just another game for them, the biggest problem i think with pvp and im sure most will argue im wrong but its that someone who picks purely dps can still heal really well, if a dps class cant heal then they die easier, but if they can just stealth, heal up and then face plant u on the ground while you try to figure why your shoe laces became untied

 

i've faced good operatives and average operatives and the average ones can still do well if your not careful, and i dunno the skill trees well but im guessing they can still go 30m max range on yah if they wish to, as a jedi shadow, i acn goto 30m with on eability, my opener does like 100 damage and i cant heal myself without stimming like mad

 

I dont know what game you've been playing, but melee dps spec scrappers can't heal for ****.

[skulp]

Having a stealth opener that combines insane damage AND a stun is just bad game design. There's a reason WoW's Rogue had Cheap Shot and Ambush, and not Cheap Shot Ambush.

[ShadoWhite]

The problem with the class at the moment is that it can kill so quickly that one cannot humanly react to it. Without the stealth (which is the biggest advantage in pvp) the burst damage would be reasonable as one could cc the operative, but with the element of surprise they just are too powerful. I've seen lvl 50 tanks with some pvp gear been shrewn to shreads in under 2 secs. My shadow rips apart in half of that time.

 

Especially with the lackluster responsiveness of the game reacting to that is impossible. Please fix this quickly as most of the games with an operative are just unplayable, especially in hutt ball where the ball carrier lives approximately 9 seconds or less.

[FalmeseReb]

So they wait 15 seconds to kill you or open on you anytime in the next 2 minutes to kill you. Stop being a little troll and enjoy your Operative/Scoundrel being OP while you can.

 

whut?

[realdarkphoenix]

Get gear, play as a team

 

 

 

Watch the difference.

[zoofar]

And dont forget to nerf the lightning stuff! I hate the lightning. And nerf force jumping. Force Jumpers are annoying for healers. Makes stuff really hard.

 

Tbh there will ALWAYS be a spec/class that is OP atm in open world - how could it not be so when you can pick your fights? Nerf one thing and another pops up to be OP. Impossible to balance open world.

[Verlol]

I just want to be able to react to an opponent. When I'm PvP'ing in my tanking spec, I can manage to live long enough to react. But in dps gear/spec, even if I hit my cc break the very second I'm stunned, I've lost 40% of my hp before I've gotten an attack off.

 

This is on a full champion/partial battlemaster geared assassin with 540 expertise. The op's I've fought arent even close in terms of gear. I can only imagine what a champion/battlemaster geared operative would do.

[Tindahbawx]

Ready? Here's the big secret to defeating an Operative/Scoundrel if they jump you.

 

1. Use Control Break

2. Turn around.

3. Stun them

4. ???

5. Profit. Free kill.

 

Just stay with at least 1 other ally. They wont jump you then. If you're wandering around alone, I can guarantee you someone is about to stab you in the face.