Nodnarbius Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 If you want an inflated and broken economy, sure. Just look at WoW, even low level items were being sold for 10x what they were actually worth, and it got progressively worse as time went on. Please explain how you determined what an item is "actually worth"? Is it what you can sell it to a vendor for? Perhaps you do not understand market economy and aren't competent at making a profit. Worth is determined by what a person is willing to do/give for it. If I am willing to fish for hours on end to sell winter eel so that others can have their buff food, then whatever I want to charge for it is what it is worth. and if someone is smart enopugh to buy up everything I sell and make a little profit off of it, then what they sell it for becomes its worth. WoW's economy was not and is not broken, nor is inflated. I have no problem with BW banning gold sellers, becuase typically they are going to get the currency the esiest way possible - stealing your account. But if I want to risk getting killed by a mob or find an unguarded item then I should not be punished for camping it and waiting for it to spawn for as long as I want to devote to doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sosolidshoe Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Are you implying that the people doing the exploit were unaware they were exploiting the game? I go from rich to poor by buying twenty copies of the game and systematically farming a high level area with low level characters..... What was I doing wrong?!?!?!?! What bloody exploit?! The OP by Reid stated that players accounts were warned or suspended because they went to Ilum and repeatedly looted containers in large numbers. By no definition of the term is that an exploit, in any other game I've ever played, or in any dictionary. There's no mention of using multiple accounts. There's no mention of any bugs being used even in a nonspecific sense. Just because a credit seller engages in an activity does not necessarily mean that everyone who engages in that activity is a credit seller, and it's bloody disingenuous for Reid to use Apophasis(fallacy of argument by innuendo) to put people who were sanctioned for engaging in a normal gameplay activity without any warning from the developer that what they were doing was against the rules, are equivalent to credit sellers. Credit sellers also send large amounts of credits from one character to another - am I going to get a warning or suspension for sending a chunk of money to an alt or a guildie? Credit sellers farm mobs for cash and items, am I going to get a warning or suspension for farming some mobs to grab the last few thousand XP I need to level ready for the next planet? How many times am I allowed to do Hammer Station in the hopes of getting the rare drop which looks like an Imperial Uniform so I can RP, before a Bioware CS agent decides that I'm a credit seller? If Bioware are going to declare an entirely normal activity like looting containers more than once or camping a spawn for loot as taboo and subject to censure, the absolute least that is required is that they warn players first - how many days have these warnings and suspensions been going on for now? Yet this thread is the first official comment on the matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finaly Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Agree. Playing the AH and participating in the economy is a popular metagame for quite a lot of folks in MMOs. This heavy-handedness is going to alienate some hardcore MMO players. economy in a game where you are not able to loose something can not work... look at EVE the economy there is really an economy... cause people can loose every frikkin ship the fly - thats where economy plays a role but within SWTOR you could care less if a speeder costs nothing or 8k - credits are worth nothing because everyone playing this game will have everything and he cannot loose it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadSquabbles Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 I don't think he is saying that here. However there appears to be some arbitrary limits on how much farming you can do or how much credits you can have. man, just like ISPs we're being throttled on how much you can make... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan_Hoffman Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 What bloody exploit?! The OP by Reid stated that players accounts were warned or suspended because they went to Ilum and repeatedly looted containers in large numbers. By no definition of the term is that an exploit, in any other game I've ever played, or in any dictionary. There's no mention of using multiple accounts. There's no mention of any bugs being used even in a nonspecific sense. Just because a credit seller engages in an activity does not necessarily mean that everyone who engages in that activity is a credit seller, and it's bloody disingenuous for Reid to use Apophasis(fallacy of argument by innuendo) to put people who were sanctioned for engaging in a normal gameplay activity without any warning from the developer that what they were doing was against the rules, are equivalent to credit sellers. Credit sellers also send large amounts of credits from one character to another - am I going to get a warning or suspension for sending a chunk of money to an alt or a guildie? Credit sellers farm mobs for cash and items, am I going to get a warning or suspension for farming some mobs to grab the last few thousand XP I need to level ready for the next planet? How many times am I allowed to do Hammer Station in the hopes of getting the rare drop which looks like an Imperial Uniform so I can RP, before a Bioware CS agent decides that I'm a credit seller? If Bioware are going to declare an entirely normal activity like looting containers more than once or camping a spawn for loot as taboo and subject to censure, the absolute least that is required is that they warn players first - how many days have these warnings and suspensions been going on for now? Yet this thread is the first official comment on the matter. Definitely part of the guilty party. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cameirus Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 So if your skill in slicing brings you to Ilum but your lvl isn't 40+ you get suspended ? Seems very unfair. if this is not the case please correct me. exactly. so its not unbalanced to have a level 10 crafting alt, but it is to have a chracter utilising the slicing skill you levelled? This is so much BS> Also, seen emails of someone getting warned for buying stuff off the GTN and relisting.....now admittedly anyone prepared to use the GTN with its appaling interface must be up to something dodgy, but wth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingoperson Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Would be using an exploit such as, hiding behind a wall that a boss is unintentionally unable to go around become a punishable offense? What about simply farming? What levels of afk farming are okay? This is the first MMO that I've seen something of this nature arise You can't have seen many MMOs. World of Warcraft has considered attacking mobs from locations they can't reach an exploit for _years_. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eskachig Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) is it really so hard to make creds legitimately? why do you have to camp chests all day? and why do you need so many credits to begin with? I just don't understand why looting nodes is somehow not legitimate. Personally I don't do it because I don't find it fun - but it's absolutely legitimate imo. That's what they are there for, to be looted. And if someone is really focused on getting uber-rich, that's not a big deal to me, I don't really see how it unbalances the economy either. Does it really matter whether someone has a million credits at level 15 vs 50? Why? All they can do with their money is the same stuff anyone else can do, regardless of their level. In any MMO there will be people who get really rich, because they spend the time doing unfun stuff to farm credits. It's sort of like real life that way. Let them - I'd rather be questing anyway. And maybe they'll buy the stuff I make, nobody else seems to want to. Edited January 2, 2012 by eskachig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingoperson Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Ah yes, "I know it when I see it." The pinnacle of legal principles. Not exactly the pinnacle, more like the bedrock. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culpability Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluke_nuke_em Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Can you link to those cases? Can't find the post anymore, got buried in Reddit. But one had a screencap, seemed legit. I would like to think it involved an exploit or mod of some kind, although the email simply read that there was too much buying and selling GTN activity on the account and that it was against ToS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mytilus Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 If you read the OP it makes it quite clear why action was taken and i support this. I also think anyone whining, arguing or disagreeing with this action in this thread should also be permanently banned from the game. I doubt such measures will be taken but i hope the names of those crying about this have been noted and their accounts will be monitored for unusual activity. Theres no smoke without fire, so those that oppose this measure clearly have some unethical personal motive and should be publicly named and shamed and then removed from the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zones Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 This and this. I've made gold cap in Wow during Wrath, and I'm very, very close to hitting the new gold cap. It's one of my favorite things to do in MMO's. This is a very dark step, who's to say that I won't get banned for manipulating the GTN (granted, they need to make the damn thing useable first) at some point because I have more credits then what someone at Bioware deems appropriate? As for WoW's economy being all screwed up? No, it isn't. If anything it's to easy to get gold just by grinding dailies. The people that are always broke and crying poor are the same ones that have always shown up to raid with no flasks or pots, no food and whip out their mammoth repair mammoth or their chopper while bugging everyone else to "loan" them some gold for repairs. Your bias is showing, watch out. The wow economy is totally screwed up, I haven't played since august but when firelands came out and for months afterwards the epics were selling for 60-90k. I was lucky to have 30k across all 6 of my 80-85's. People who "play" the auction house literally make things unaffordable for the average player since those sums of money are simply not obtainable by "doing dailies". Don't get me wrong, I have mixed feelings about this. One part of me is very happy they won't allow "GTN Barons" but the other part of me feels it is wrong to keep people from being able to maximise their profits. While I understand some of the complaints however, I will always go to the side of the average player who plies their craft and tries to make a profit off it not the person who obtains so many credits the price of "unique" items gets completely unobtainable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excedrin Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Not exactly the pinnacle, more like the bedrock. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culpability I see my sarcasm was lost on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zocat Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) I didn't "make up facts" - people involved in the Ilum exploit were warned or given a temporary ban. No permanent bans were issued for it (unless they were also selling Credits). I misread that they were all warned first (and even acknowledged it when it was pointed out) but it still doesn't take away the core facts of the issue or that BW's response was both completely in their right and accepted as completely reasonable and appropriate by many here. Attack me all you want, it's not going to change that You wrote: "If you are engaging in "questionable" activities like camping a Chest on a character, expect a warning from Bioware followed by a temporary ban if you choose to ignore said warning." That is the made up fact which I refered to. I then corrected your statement (with the reading comprehension part - something you used earlier yourself - so it seems it's ok for you if it's used in a discussion). Then you said "fair point" to my correction - but in the same post say I was attacking you as a person for making that correction (or was it for using the reading comprehension part and I misunderstood you?) - and it's completely irrelevant to the discussion. I then said you used the made up fact ("warning then temp bans") to support your argument and therefore it's not an attack against you if I call you out for it but a tool to show that your argument/statements are false. Edit: If you feel attacked - I am sorry. That wasnt my intention. Edited January 2, 2012 by Zocat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan_Hoffman Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 If you read the OP it makes it quite clear why action was taken and i support this. I also think anyone whining, arguing or disagreeing with this action in this thread should also be permanently banned from the game. I doubt such measures will be taken but i hope the names of those crying about this have been noted and their accounts will be monitored for unusual activity. Theres no smoke without fire, so those that oppose this measure clearly have some unethical personal motive and should be publicly named and shamed and then removed from the game. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excedrin Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) Your bias is showing, watch out. The wow economy is totally screwed up, I haven't played since august but when firelands came out and for months afterwards the epics were selling for 60-90k. I was lucky to have 30k across all 6 of my 80-85's. People who "play" the auction house literally make things unaffordable for the average player since those sums of money are simply not obtainable by "doing dailies". Don't get me wrong, I have mixed feelings about this. One part of me is very happy they won't allow "GTN Barons" but the other part of me feels it is wrong to keep people from being able to maximise their profits. While I understand some of the complaints however, I will always go to the side of the average player who plies their craft and tries to make a profit off it not the person who obtains so many credits the price of "unique" items gets completely unobtainable. So if that's the case put in systems that prevent people from acting too aggresively or otherwise regulate the market. Setting up a free market system and then punishing people for being winners in that free market is silly to say the least. It didn't have to be set up the way it was. Edited January 2, 2012 by Excedrin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan_Hoffman Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 The exploit is getting with someone on the other faction to flip Ilum which resets all the nodes allowing for continuous gathering for asanine amounts of credits. That is an exploit and those people should recieve punishment. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluke_nuke_em Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 BTW guys, just saw that the persons being punished for nodes/chests/whatever were likely trading off capping points, which respawns those items. So, certainly an exploit....one that deserves a warning, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eskachig Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 If you read the OP it makes it quite clear why action was taken and i support this. I also think anyone whining, arguing or disagreeing with this action in this thread should also be permanently banned from the game. I doubt such measures will be taken but i hope the names of those crying about this have been noted and their accounts will be monitored for unusual activity. Theres no smoke without fire, so those that oppose this measure clearly have some unethical personal motive and should be publicly named and shamed and then removed from the game. Hahaha wow you're like some kind of MMO NKVD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scandana Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 BRAVO!!!!! Bout time someone put a kibbash on gold farming! Way to go Bioware! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excedrin Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) BTW guys, just saw that the persons being punished for nodes/chests/whatever were likely trading off capping points, which respawns those items. So, certainly an exploit....one that deserves a warning, anyway. Finally, something that makes sense. The real question is though, why wasn't the post framed this way? I mean, Reid is the guy paid to communicate these things to customers. This doesn't seem to communicate this very well. It doesn't communicate it at all, in fact. I was mostly taking issue with the absurd statement that looting a node and waiting for it to respawn was somehow an exploit. Edited January 2, 2012 by Excedrin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zones Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 So if that's the case put in systems that prevent people from acting too aggresively or otherwise regulates the market. Setting up a free market system and then punishing people for being winners in that free market is silly to say the least. It didn't have to be set up the way it was. I did say I had mixed feelings about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingoperson Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 I just don't understand why looting nodes is somehow not legitimate. "Looting nodes" is absolutely legitimate, 99.99% of the time, except for the time when you also exploit design flaws to gain an unfair advantage. Check the WoW terms of use, it's been in there for years. Like "I am just moving my hand around!" is legitimate 99.99% of the time except when you also punch someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShamanTR Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Thanks Bioware .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excedrin Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 I did say I had mixed feelings about it. Fair enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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