SWTOR: The most unsubscribed-to mmo in 2012?

[Setanian]

Maybe it's a generational gap thing, but I really dont understand these type of threads.

 

The other day I tried a new brand of soda, and I was like "blech, this is horrible, I'm not buying this anymore".

 

At no point did i think to myself, "HEY I'M GOING BACK TO THE STORE AND I'M GOING TO TELL ALL THE OTHER CUSTOMERS HOW MUCH I HATE THAT SODA AND HOW THEY SHOULD HATE IT TOO OR ELSE THEY ARE WRONG". (i use caps because I like to think of these type of people as angry spastics that cant use a conversational tone)

 

I mean. Really.

 

It's consumer freedom. You supply a general board where players can post their gripes or whatever else, and they do so.

 

There are some 200+ people in my IT department. I'll know before I go to the restaurant whether the food is good, ok, or just meh. It's an information highway. We all chat, we converse about things. We discuss things like food, wives, husbands, sex, religion, and games.

 

It'll be interesting to hear tomorrow what the general consensus is from all those who bought SWToR and have played it over the XMas holidays.

 

Never under estimate the vocal power of the consumer.

 

To you they're all just whiners. But, that mostly because you're hoping, they are not right and you haven't bought a dream that turned into a nightmare.

[DarthBubba]

I have one word that makes your whole post redundant. Tatooine. Get a little bit higher and go there. Some of the worlds are a bit smaller and more linear but others are huge and have so much to do. I think Bioware wanted to start people off slowly and let the worlds open up and gain more mentum as you go along. I felt a bit confined in the first couple of planets but after that it's just huge. Tatooine is by far larger than any one zone in wow. Think Tanaris but will balls.

[Saitada]

I came. I saw. I read. My eyes bled.

 

I'mma give the game a year. In that time, I expect many, if not most of the more glaring issues to get fixed, a few of the less glaring issues to get fixed, Kira's Granny Panties to get changed to a Bikini set, and a lot more functionality to be added.

 

If none of this happens within a year, then yeah.. game might have some issues. But if BW is smart, they'll crack the whip and fix the more glaring issues asap.

 

I don't see BW as being a dumb company... so... I give the game a year to go from rough edged, to decently polished.

 

*wanders off to play EVE for my ship -to- ship combat*

 

See ya.

 

~S

[Reaperchris]

Oh no an MMO has issues at launch!!!!!! Yup MMOs have issues this is BS! MMOs should be perfect because obviously they are so easy to make! Games should be perfect the moment they come out! Get off your high horse.

[owenthorn]

Some points are only valid as far as his OPINION takes them

 

no faction vs faction massive war...why should there be? does he know we are technically at peace with the empire, fragile as it is, we are no longer at war with each other, so massive empire vs republic open war makes no sense

 

All MMO's do this, you cant have an MMO without killing/collecting/delivering etc.. you have to do something to advance your level

 

No MMO is truly ever an open world, ever, it has limits, they either kill you when you go there, or transfer you back to a close town, bind point etc...

 

crafting has really never been the source to get the best gear you can get, armor, weapons, trinkets, its always been drops and raids, that wont change, anyone who plays MMO's knows this, crafted stuff helps get you in the door most times

 

Other games you can "beat" the game at level 2 or 3, just by staying on the main story line, thinking elder scrolls here, but what fun is that, you do the side quests, you get involved in the quests, if you feel its become a chore, maybe an MMO isn't for you

 

I didn't buy the game for space combat, even in the movies space combat was secondary to the missions on the planet, its a fun mini game, nothing more

 

I get beat in PVP waah waah, those are the same complaints about PVP everywhere, minus the bolster of 1-50 in the same group, really stupid by the way Bio ware, fix it, this is an MMO, it is all about the PVE, not PVP, PVP is a secondary mini game

 

It got to a million subs, due to the fact two days after launch it was fully sub or be kicked out of the game, it was a numbers game, a PR stunt if you will, people had to sub to find out if they even liked the game, and many others just unsubbed

[Teldara]

STO is the fastest.

 

Maybe FFXIV.

[KoukosGamer]

I quit WoW almost a year ago....I thought Swtor would be different....I love the Star Wars lore...but I find it to be wow in space...and also instancing...which sux BIG TIME.... I understand we have planets ..but each planet could be one open world planet...instancing destroys the community...there is no reason to group whatsoever...I am lvl 33 and have done very few heroics 4....most heroics 2 I can solo...therefore no mmo for me...My only warzone attempt was that awful scoring game..which as a healer made me completely incompetent..btw when warone ended my game crashed so i couldnt login for 2 hours again.

 

My suggestion...either make this an mmo or make it f2p and add monthly payments for people playing flashpoints or pvp warzones.....I am not willing to pay 260 euros for game and 1 year payments just to see the 8 different stories which I am sure are all great...the two I have started for now are really awesome...but is it worth all that money? Many great rpgs are out there..better stories than swtor..

[Stelakh]

Maybe it's a generational gap thing, but I really dont understand these type of threads.

 

The other day I tried a new brand of soda, and I was like "blech, this is horrible, I'm not buying this anymore".

 

At no point did i think to myself, "HEY I'M GOING BACK TO THE STORE AND I'M GOING TO TELL ALL THE OTHER CUSTOMERS HOW MUCH I HATE THAT SODA AND HOW THEY SHOULD HATE IT TOO OR ELSE THEY ARE WRONG". (i use caps because I like to think of these type of people as angry spastics that cant use a conversational tone)

 

I mean. Really.

 

You're comparing apples to oranges.

 

The Soda

With a soda, you say, "This is horrible. I won't buy this again." So you don't. You've spent $1.50 or so (and back in my day you could still find machines with a bottle of Coke for 5 cents). And I think even the most rabid of soda fanatics isn't anywhere near as overzealously insane as the average movie fanboi (regardless of what movie or movies).

 

At that point, if you don't like it, you pour it down the sink and you've really not lost a lot of money and/or time.

 

The MMO

With a massively-multiplayer online game, you have 30 days of game time that comes with your (in this case no less than $60.00) purchase.

 

You have an expectation when you buy it that it'll work properly, and while there might be a bug here and there, it would certainly never be released with something that was game-breaking or show-stopping, and that you'd be able to get enjoyment out of it that does, in fact, last longer than your average soda.

 

You have the anticipation that many MMOs have - people have heard about it, seen the interviews, seen the trailers, heard people talk about how awesome it is when they've played it at gamer conventions; and so forth.

 

The Star Wars Component

Star Wars carries with it an unbelievably large amount of astonishingly rabid fanbois who will immolate you if you get something wrong. They might even, heaven help us, call you, "laserbrain." The alien in "Attack of the Clones" that exclaims "What the?!" during the assassin chase scene on Coruscant probably has 8,346 pages about him on Wookiepedia. We're talking REALLY fanatical people.

 

I'm pretty sure there wasn't a "Star Wars Cola," although it wouldn't surprise me. And, even if there was, it would still have had the expected longevity of any other soda. There's a finite amount of space in a bottle.

 

So now, let's put that all together.

 

You've got a bottle of soda - that'll last you maybe an hour before it's warm and starts going flat if you leave it sitting open.

 

You have a Star Wars MMO, that has been anticipated for years. You have a fanbase so rabid that religious fanatics look at them with astonishment and say, "Aren't they fanatical!?" You have a game that is released with a ton of bugs - some of them show-stopping and game-breaking. You have a game that feels very much like it was not Ready-To-Market in any way, shape or form - that people have already paid for.

 

And finally, while I've been amusing myself with everything I've said thus far, here's the real issue:

 

People who write complaints on these forums (at least the ones that are thoughtful and constructive), are people who actually care. They want the game to be more, to work properly, and not be broken. They want to enjoy the game, not be stuck behind a bad line of code.

 

And they're frustrated because customer support doesn't seem to exist.

 

But instead they get flamed and trolled by people who are of a different ilk.

 

Finally, back to amusing myself here: You reference a conversational tone and in the same sentence resort to name-calling ("angry spastics"). That had me howling with laughter. Thanks for that.

Edited January 2, 2012 by Stelakh

[BluePlatypus]

Finally, back to amusing myself here: You reference a conversational tone and in the same sentence resort to name-calling ("angry spastics"). That had me howling with laughter. Thanks for that.

Yes, in my situational, hypothetical, non-existant soda hyperbole, they are indeed angry spastics. Howl away.

 

Anyway, I still dont agree about your apples and oranges. I can think of 3 MMO's last year alone that I have spent money on, quickly unsubscribed, and never once bothered to visit the forums (STO, Champions, AoC). I just couldnt bring myself to care enough.

 

I just wonder if people invested too much emotionally into this game.

Edited January 2, 2012 by BluePlatypus

[Setanian]

You're comparing apples to oranges.

 

The Soda

With a soda, you say, "This is horrible. I won't buy this again." So you don't. You've spent $1.50 or so (and back in my day you could still find machines with a bottle of Coke for 5 cents). And I think even the most rabid of soda fanatics isn't anywhere near as overzealously insane as the average movie fanboi (regardless of what movie or movies).

 

At that point, if you don't like it, you pour it down the sink and you've really not lost a lot of money and/or time.

 

The MMO

With a massively-multiplayer online game, you have 30 days of game time that comes with your (in this case no less than $60.00) purchase.

 

You have an expectation when you buy it that it'll work properly, and while there might be a bug here and there, it would certainly never be released with something that was game-breaking or show-stopping, and that you'd be able to get enjoyment out of it that does, in fact, last longer than your average soda.

 

You have the anticipation that many MMOs have - people have heard about it, seen the interviews, seen the trailers, heard people talk about how awesome it is when they've played it at gamer conventions; and so forth.

 

The Star Wars Component

Star Wars carries with it an unbelievably large amount of astonishingly rabid fanbois who will immolate you if you get something wrong. They might even, heaven help us, call you, "laserbrain." The alien in "Attack of the Clones" that exclaims "What the?!" during the assassin chase scene on Coruscant probably has 8,346 pages about him on Wookiepedia. We're talking REALLY fanatical people.

 

I'm pretty sure there wasn't a "Star Wars Cola," although it wouldn't surprise me. And, even if there was, it would still have had the expected longevity of any other soda. There's a finite amount of space in a bottle.

 

So now, let's put that all together.

 

You've got a bottle of soda - that'll last you maybe an hour before it's warm and starts going flat if you leave it sitting open.

 

You have a Star Wars MMO, that has been anticipated for years. You have a fanbase so rabid that religious fanatics look at them with astonishment and say, "Aren't they fanatical!?" You have a game that is released with a ton of bugs - some of them show-stopping and game-breaking. You have a game that feels very much like it was not Ready-To-Market in any way, shape or form - that people have already paid for.

 

And finally, while I've been amusing myself with everything I've said thus far, here's the real issue:

 

People who write complaints on these forums (at least the ones that are thoughtful and constructive), are people who actually care. They want the game to be more, to work properly, and not be broken. They want to enjoy the game, not be stuck behind a bad line of code.

 

And they're frustrated because customer support doesn't seem to exist.

 

But instead they get flamed and trolled by people who are of a different ilk.

 

Finally, back to amusing myself here: You reference a conversational tone and in the same sentence resort to name-calling ("angry spastics"). That had me howling with laughter. Thanks for that.

 

OMG, Someone else see's what I see !!

[moiraesfate]

Not again. Do you guys ever get tired of making false allegations? Enough already.

[Torunus]

Leave Britney alone!!!

[Stelakh]

Yes, in my situational, hypothetical, non-existant soda hyperbole, they are indeed angry spastics. Howl away.

 

Anyway, I still dont agree about your apples and oranges. I can think of 3 MMO's last year alone that I have spent money on, quickly unsubscribed, and never once bothered to visit the forums (STO, Champions, AoC). I just couldnt bring myself to care enough.

 

I just wonder if people invested too much emotionally into this game.

 

I played STO. I was one of the people that was hitting the devs with an incredibly heavy hand with criticism. I desperately wanted it to be something better, because I've been a fan of ST for over 40 years.

 

Unfortunately, it turned out to be the worst MMO I have ever played. Ever. It was a huge disappointment.

 

And the funny thing is that I see exactly the same kind of thing going on with TOR as I did STO. A game that wasn't ready to be released, a rabid fanbase with some people criticizing and the fanbois flaming/trolling, and a game that - if it doesn't change course - will likely go the same way STO did, F2P in 2 years or less, owned by (in my NEVER humble opinion) the cancer of the gaming industry: PWE.

 

As far as people investing too much emotionally in SWTOR? It's Star Wars. Ever see the movie Fanboys? I KNOW people like that. LOL

[mezlabor]

Regarding the subject for a few reasons from my early-to mid-game experience, level 27, I'm wondering if many more than expected will unsubscribe to TOR more quickly than anticipated.

 

So this is my constructive open thoughts.

 

It (TOR) has had one of the most robust box/digital downloads since its’ release, and knowing that historically ~60% of mmo enthusiasts over the last several years looking for massively-multiplayer entertainment in past games unsubscribe 3-6months out from lack of massively-multiplayer features and content to justify $15/month, it comes to reason that when the majority discover how non massively-multiplayer this game is, it will be the same % of unsubscribers, maybe more.

 

Maybe more because Bioware fans that are historically very entertained by Biowares Single-Player Cinematic RPG’s will be scratching their heads as to why their paying $15/month for what feels like their new Single-Player RPG, as opposed to a community-centric organically influenced massively-multiplayer game.

 

- Tor feels like having the least Massively-Multiplayer features & content of any mainstream labeled mmo aside from STO.

 

- My transition from Starter area to early-game felt like AoC's Tortage all over again. Very entertaining and lush game-play with story and players abound that you relied on to cooperatively complete content in a challenging environment, leading to post-early game to mid-game where your game-play becomes more redundant of the same content and much more confining in very closed-off and tightly pathed instanced zones.

 

- Post starter area to mid-game content is not organic; there are absolutely no open-world dynamic events or community triggered or driven events; everything is a short-term staged scrimmage against static & predictable moles that add nothing to the atmosphere, other than those mobs standing on a cube waiting to be attacked by a player.

 

- So for now, the feeling is one of extreme & heavily instanced linearly pathed & redundant content ‘without’ open-world post-starter to mid-game, but confining pathed maps barren of players.

 

- There are no open-world challenging cooperatively community driven and influenced content; no community-influenced or incentivised dynamic events which involve the battle of Republic vs Empire factions, compounding there being absolutely no meaningfully faction vs faction game-play early to mid-game.

 

- I don't feel as though players are important to the community or core of game-play, that other players involvement in game-play, traversing a map, mission completion involvement, crafting, merchandising, or trades matters.

 

- Therefore, I dont get the sense that there is any importance placed on player/community crafting, merchandising & economy when there is the high drop-rate or green, blue and orange items in the general game-play quest-lines and drops from general mobs. Therefore, crafting, merchandising and trades for an emphasis on a massively-multiplayer community-driven economy is significantly undermined.

 

- Eventhough my server is "Heavy", getting a group for a Flashpoint or Heroic near-promptly is uncommon, as there doesn't appear to be any players in terms of numbers that should account for it being "Heavy".

 

- There is an incredible emphasis on single-player-esque quests. Bioware has certainly compounded the term ‘Questing’ into ‘Laborious Chore’. The mass amounts of side quests that are a core game-play design feature which I always end up with is astounding; a full quest log of the same fetch, kill 10, 25, 50, fed-ex runs, etc. It really does take away a lot of the feeling of urgency from your main story and importance of completion and de-emphasizes massively-multiplayer. Character progression is mostly a redundant & repetitive single-player chore due to this.

 

- There is no multi-user feature to space combat, it compounds the feeling of the game (TOR) as a single-player game even more-so. So, space combat is single-player, not massively-multiplayer. It's static and doesn't contribute to the struggle of Republic vs Empire within what should be an influential massively-multiplayer environment.

 

With space combat in it's current developmental state and having it featured as a main element of game-play without any massively-multiplayer content or features is disappointing to say the least. Who would have thought that they'd be paying $15/month for content that amounts to Star Wars X-Wing Fighter game-play.

 

- Player-involved against player-involved combative & cooperative and competitive content is pathetic and massively-multiplayer meaningless. One can’t choose the warzone they want to play. Only to have 3 shoe-box mini-map 10 v 10 warzones to randomly get pushed into is shallow. There are no meaningful personal rewards or achievements that one can accomplish early to mid-game to strive to differentiate you within the community, or strive to differentiate your guild or faction within the community. Many matches leaves one side down from early game and serial leavers that flood a match compounds loss, while level 10-20 players are matched with level 40-50 players with greater access to skills in a bolster system that is nothing but ineffective. All while pugs are matched against pre-mades with gives a sizable communication, familiarity, cooperation and coordination disadvantage to the pug team.

 

- Targeting system is horrible and doesn't work well in Warzone matches, compounding the frustration of aforementioned flaws of the PvP system.

 

- The "Stuff" bioware is "working" on is "stuff" that should have been launch-ready; such as UI. Speaking of, the UI staticness and lack of functionality and modification is horrible, while Raid frames are rudimentary and lacking by not updating correctly without being able to see debuffs at all..

 

- LFG system is completely useless, can't search globally for people who are LFG.

 

- No combat logs.

 

- On a labeled Heavily Populated server, zones seem barren of players, compounding the lack of feel of massively-multiplayer.

 

- Character / Race customization not close to any other mainstream MMO, not to mentioned complete lack of gear appearance customization, which is arguably another indicator this game lacks the massively-multiplayer features to really allow players to distinguish themselves in what should be a persistent massively-multiplayer universe, as opposed to being a mirror image of the other players standing next to you.

 

Good Good Let the hate flow through you. I can feel yoru anger it gives you focus makes you powerful!

[noggerr]

The OP is right at there matter, the difference is if you care or not about this. I do, there is no community or social experience in the game, everything is to confusing, and its alot of flash but no substance.

 

At lvl 45 im still alone, always was... at 50 the only difference is that i will sometimes meet with ppl to raid. yaay

[SnoggyMack]

At lvl 45 im still alone, always was...

 

This post makes me sad. It's dangerous to go it alone.

[Jamus_Divinus]

After reading over half the post, semi agreeing while not agreeing, i scroll back up and re-read the top "constructive" whait.. hold it, nothing i read was constructive, it was a rant, a QQ post, well written but still a common QQ post.

 

If you call the post constructive, you need to:

1. problem

2. solution

3.either another solution, or a proposed revamp\change\overhaul

 

You just said things in a matter-of-fact way makign them seam as everyone was agreeing and this was facts, and not the opinion based rant it is.

 

im not even gona bother to argue whit you over you`re own argument as pro\cons for the game, becouse i know you only seek attention and do not whant to do anything remotly constuctive here.

 

Agree. I suggest the OP look up what the word constructive means...twice

 

Actually agree with some of his/her points but overall it smacks of anger induced ranting more than constructive criticism.

 

My 2 cents.

[CanWolfShadow]

This post makes me sad. It's dangerous to go it alone.

 

HERE TAKE THIS KITTEN!

 

/lol

[Sttm]

OMG, Someone else see's what I see !!

 

Ditto. Kind of amazed how much I agree with all that. Especially the age of conan remarks, I was feeling Tortage deja vu after finishing my Troopers Act 1 story.

 

 

Though it cant be the most unsubscribed MMO in 2012, WoW will definitely be that, if only because WoW will lose more subscriptions with the Pandaclysm then SW:TOR will ever reach.

Edited January 2, 2012 by Sttm

[Darkeus]

Yeah and no.... Sorry doom an gloom, it will not be.

[pocketthesaurus]

Considering it is the fastest growing subcription-based MMO in history, it stands to reason that it could be the most unsubscribed to MMO in 2012, for the simple fact of sheer numbers. Ratio wise, probably not, but by numbers, yes.

[Red_Vs_Blue]

News Flash to those that did not realize this simple fact : THE IMPERIAL/REPUBLIC FLEET IS YOUR SOCIAL HUB, IT IS THE SAME AS ORG/SW WAS IN WOW!

 

I swear, WoW zones would be just as lonely were it not for how tiny they are, and for some reason going through zones in this game is fun, in wow it was painful

 

Lets see

 

Desolace: no one

EPL/WPL: One or two people

The Rest are the same, only reason some zones have more is because they are tiny daily hubs where every 85 and their dog jumps to do it then complain about how bored they are.

[Tiaa]

SWTOR is the fastest MMORPG to get to 1 million subscriptions.

 

Too bad this game doesn't even have a million subscribers.

[jestertron]

God speed who ever reads all this.

 

yeah. I love wall of texts. Sorry to troll, but get to the point within the first paragraph.

[pocketthesaurus]

I don't know a single human being who's interested in playing Pandas in China.

I do!

 

My girlfriend's 8-year-old daughter!

 

Seriously, she is the only person interested in it, while my gf and every other adult I know has laughed at how awful it sounds, unsubbed (if they were playing at the time), and said they would never go back (the ones who weren't currently playing). This includes me... I really lucked out that my last subscription period ended on 12/15! Ha, first day of early access here. That was a win.