Raein Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) Let me start this by saying that TOR is a pretty decent game. It has a laundry list of small issues, and a few big ones, but I've had a fair bit of fun with it and it has a good number or redeeming qualities to it as well. Now to get to my point: World of WarCraft is the most successful MMO in history. This is a fact. This is backed up by quantifiable empirical evidence. This also has nothing to do with whether or not you subjectively like it. That being said, it is the top dog. It is the MMO which all other MMOs must aspire to equal or beat in terms of quality. This does not mean they must be clones of it, rather that they must appeal to as many people as it does for their own reasons (or similar ones). Consumer loyalty is a big part of the 21st century Western mindset. I don't blame the apologists for being brainwashed into thinking they are the white knights of a corporation and are thus tasked to defend it at every juncture. I admire loyalty, and loyalty to developers isn't a bad thing, as long as you leave room for criticism when it must duly be applied. The problem here is that so many of you are just flat out denying that TOR is in no way in the same realm that World of WarCraft is in. What's even more pathetic is that some of you are actually trying to justify this inane reasoning by comparing TOR to Vanilla WoW and the issues it had. World of WarCraft came out in 2004. You are trying to compare a product from 2004 to a product from 2011. Do you understand how puerile that is? Try doing that in any other market. Hell, try doing that with any other game if you like. Compare a Smartphone from 2004 to a Smartphone from 2011. If the Smartphone from 2011 was missing features that a phone from 2004 had, you would be laughing your asses off at it, asking yourselves how anyone allowed such a worthless product to market. What if Modern Warfare 3 didn't have online capabilities even though Call of Duty 2 did? What if Portal 2 didn't run on Steamworks, yet Half-Life 2 did? You can pick whatever other comparison you like, it all points to the same issue. TOR should be compared to World of Warcraft 4.3, and the fact that it cannot in any way come close to matching what the current model offers is why so many people are frustrated with the game as it currently stands. There is no /roll or /random command in TOR I mean for ****'s sake, you're going to try to defend minutiae like this away by saying to give it time? It needs time to implement what has been in a seven year old game of the same genre? It needs time to implement graphical settings which have existed for over a decade? How much time does it need to bring itself to speed and match a 2011 title? The ball is in BioWare's court. They're the new kid on the block, and they have to prove themselves as a capable competitor. Edited January 2, 2012 by Raein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natrix Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Go back to WoW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granyala Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) Well said OP, but mindless Fanboys (see above) are already on their way to shout you down. Edited January 2, 2012 by Granyala Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWGoriginal Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 go back to wow. no u! Haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Englefield Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 If you want to compare wow 4.3 to tor, you're effectively comparing a game in development for 12 years to one of only 5. You cannot expect the same amount of content or features. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvonrader Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 I defend SWTOR because it's a great game - WoW had a lot of bugs when it was released, that Blizzard ironed out over the course of its first year. That's just how MMOs work. Rift still has a bunch of bugs. But I'm not "blind" - I posted a thread about a broken quest last night in the Customer Service forum. I just don't have a high tolerance for people that want to whine incessantly. If you don't like the game, then fine. Go play another one. That's what everyone else does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inat_mivea Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 I'm not an apologist at all. I simply dont like WOW. I played it and felt like "Uncle Paul" as I was surrounded by socially challenged kiddies who did nothing more than post about Chuck Norris while dancing as an Elf. I dont want SWTOR to be a WOW competitor - I want it to be a viable alternative where mature, experienced MMO players can find a home away from the kiddies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yfelsung Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 In this thread: Enjoying SWTOR means you're a blind apologist. You ever consider that even if WoW and SWTOR are practically the same game, that the Star Wars universe is INFINITELY better written and more interesting than the Warcraft universe which is why SWTOR is the better game? Even if SWTOR was literally the exact same game as WoW with a Star Wars skin, that Star Wars skin makes it a better game because of how poor of a universe that Warcraft is. Warcraft's lore is literally "Warhammer for Children" and THAT'S why Warcraft is a bad game. Mechanics aside, it's boring and uninspired lore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cryptoling Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 I agree 100%. I used to be a fanboy but after playing the game awhile and seeing the issues for myself I have stopped standing up for it. I'm actually kind of embarrassed at myself for standing up for it for so long, though it was mostly through beta while i was crossing my fingers hoping things would be better at release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derliam Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 I can't understand why people have to constantly compare TOR with other MMO's. It offers a completely different focus on what is important, and what is not. I could complain that WoW doesn't offer voice acting and complain my heart out on the forums and say "OMG Blizzard doesn't listen this is never going to change!!1!" I don't because it is a different game, with different priorities. Just take it as it is, offer constructive criticism and see what happens. It might improve soon, then it might not either. If you don't have faith things will change, do by any means go back to WoW, or for god's sake just enjoy it as it is and don't despair about why things don't change fast enough. End of Story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWGoriginal Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 I dont want SWTOR to be a WOW competitor - I want it to be a viable alternative where mature, experienced MMO players can find a home away from the kiddies I know for sure that because of the easy mode of this game your never going to escape the kiddies. You need to be playing something like Eve online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mamono Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Well said OP, but mindless Fanboys (see above) are already on their way to shout you down. I agree with you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButtGoblin Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 I'm not an apologist at all. I simply dont like WOW. I played it and felt like "Uncle Paul" as I was surrounded by socially challenged kiddies who did nothing more than post about Chuck Norris while dancing as an Elf. I dont want SWTOR to be a WOW competitor - I want it to be a viable alternative where mature, experienced MMO players can find a home away from the kiddies Imagine if it could be so. I have since WoW especially wished for a game where you could get a server with at least double subscription cost, for no reason at all except it being more EXPENSIVE. It would be the optimal way of getting rid of snot nosed little smelly pre to early post teen players and get back to a more mature gaming environment which I SO MISS from the Everquest 1 days, when the average WoW player would have been shunned and not allowed to participate in the raiding/social community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavernicolo Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Let me start this by saying that TOR is a pretty decent game. It has a laundry list of small issues, and a few big ones, but I've had a fair bit of fun with it and it has a good number or redeeming qualities to it as well. Now to get to my point: World of WarCraft is the most successful MMO in history. This is a fact. This is backed up by quantifiable empirical evidence. This also has nothing to do with whether or not you subjectively like it. That being said, it is the top dog. It is the MMO which all other MMOs must aspire to equal or beat in terms of quality. This does not mean they must be clones of it, rather that they must appeal to as many people as it does for their own reasons (or similar ones). Consumer loyalty is a big part of the 21st century Western mindset. I don't blame the apologists for being brainwashed into thinking they are the white knights of a corporation and are thus tasked to defend it at every juncture. I admire loyalty, and loyalty to developers isn't a bad thing, as long as you leave room for criticism when it must duly be applied. The problem here is that so many of you are just flat out denying that TOR is in no way in the same realm that World of WarCraft is in. What's even more pathetic is that some of you are actually trying to justify this inane reasoning by comparing TOR to Vanilla WoW and the issues it had. World of WarCraft came out in 2004. You are trying to compare a product from 2004 to a product from 2011. Do you understand how puerile that is? Try doing that in any other market. Hell, try doing that with any other game if you like. Compare a Smartphone from 2004 to a Smartphone from 2011. If the Smartphone from 2011 was missing features that a phone from 2004 had, you would be laughing your asses off at it, asking yourselves how anyone allowed such a worthless product to market. What if Modern Warfare 3 didn't have online capabilities even though Call of Duty 2 did? What if Portal 2 didn't run on Steamworks, yet Half-Life 2 did? You can pick whatever other comparison you like, it all points to the same issue. TOR should be compared to World of Warcraft 4.3, and the fact that it cannot in any way come close to matching what the current model offers is why so many people are frustrated with the game as it currently stands. There is no /roll or /random command in TOR I mean for ****'s sake, you're going to try to defend minutiae like this away by saying to give it time? It needs time to implement what has been in a seven year old game of the same genre? It needs time to implement graphical settings which have existed for over a decade? How much time does it need to bring itself to speed and match a 2011 title? The ball is in BioWare's court. They're the new kid on the block, and they have to prove themselves as a capable competitor. Amazing thread, it should be stickied, no I'm not being sarcastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archifikoss Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 I defend SWTOR because it's a great game - WoW had a lot of bugs when it was released, that Blizzard ironed out over the course of its first year. That's just how MMOs work. Rift still has a bunch of bugs. But I'm not "blind" - I posted a thread about a broken quest last night in the Customer Service forum. I just don't have a high tolerance for people that want to whine incessantly. If you don't like the game, then fine. Go play another one. That's what everyone else does. Good post bud. TOR has issues, some serious, some more trivial - but in my eyes it remains a fun, worthwhile game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derliam Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 I can't understand why people have to constantly compare TOR with other MMO's. It offers a completely different focus on what is important, and what is not. I could complain that WoW doesn't offer voice acting and complain my heart out on the forums and say "OMG Blizzard doesn't listen this is never going to change!!1!" I don't because it is a different game, with different priorities. Just take it as it is, offer constructive criticism and see what happens. It might improve soon, then it might not either. If you don't have faith things will change, do by any means go back to WoW, or for god's sake just enjoy it as it is and don't despair about why things don't change fast enough. End of Story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FellintoOblivion Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 I think I'm going to start a car company that produces cars with no air conditioning, manual lock and windows, 8 track players and no power steering and market it exclusively to the people on these forums and promise I will upgrade everything over the next 5 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvonrader Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 I just don't get it - if you people don't like the game... why not just, y'know... play something else? Why lurk and clog up the forums with your whining about how you like WoW better? Go back to WoW, then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDozen Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 I think I'm going to start a car company that produces cars with no air conditioning, manual lock and windows, 8 track players and no power steering and market it exclusively to the people on these forums and promise I will upgrade everything over the next 5 years. If it goes 0-60 in under 3 seconds I'll buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FellintoOblivion Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 I just don't get it - if you people don't like the game... why not just, y'know... play something else? Why lurk and clog up the forums with your whining about how you like WoW better? Go back to WoW, then. You know a game is in REALLY serious trouble when people stop complaining. If they're asking for change it's because they care. You don't want us to stop caring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Englefield Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 I think I'm going to start a car company that produces cars with no air conditioning, manual lock and windows, 8 track players and no power steering and market it exclusively to the people on these forums and promise I will upgrade everything over the next 5 years. This forum has an unhealthy obsession with ridiculous analogies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archifikoss Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) I just don't get it - if you people don't like the game... why not just, y'know... play something else? Why lurk and clog up the forums with your whining about how you like WoW better? Go back to WoW, then. Because they are attention starved. And no, I don't mean the people like Xcore and his ability response thread who posted constructive criticism about issues without resorting to whining, trolling and wasting everybody's time. Edited January 2, 2012 by archifikoss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FellintoOblivion Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 This forum has an unhealthy obsession with ridiculous analogies. It's actually rather accurate. I'm being asked to pay for a product now that is inferior in most ways to other products already on the market on the premise it will be improved in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errathe Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 If you want to compare wow 4.3 to tor, you're effectively comparing a game in development for 12 years to one of only 5. You cannot expect the same amount of content or features. However, on the other hand, one could argue that it has been easier for Bioware to develop TOR's features to be more in-line with current industry standards. 1. The game is based on the Hero engine MMO software 2. The have had the shoulders of several giants to stand on 3. Substantial budget It's just a game, after all, but let's be honest: a broken, half-implemented guild window is pretty poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snooggums Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 I think I'm going to start a car company that produces cars with no air conditioning, manual lock and windows, 8 track players and no power steering and market it exclusively to the people on these forums and promise I will upgrade everything over the next 5 years. Best comparison so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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