I unsubscribed, and here's why.

[Freyar]

Conan is still a boring game to play. The story could be decent, but they ruined PvP and still fail to make it compelling.

 

TOR does well enough. A good spiritual successor to KOTOR.

[klinesmoker]

My entire conversation in a testament to this. I was torn apart by the fanboys because I understand the concerns of those who are posting these treads, yet I also explained I have tolerance for these concerns and plan to stay for the long while.

 

I was painted black by the community quite quickly? Apparently there's not such thing as being on both sides of the argument with this CLEARLY narrow mindedness.

 

I thought the WoW forum community was bad.

 

I've been trying very hard to maintain neutrality and push people to be more reasonable, but any notion of a problem with the game itself is met with what I personally consider to be the worst example of blind love for an IP I've ever seen. What is confusing and saddening is that these posters do not understand that without airing complaints about issues these issues don't get fixed.

 

I, like you, will continue to be as civil as possible. I like and dislike this game for various reasons, but to be labelled as an idiot or a troll for voicing reason is very depressing.

[AJediKnight]

I've been trying very hard to maintain neutrality and push people to be more reasonable, but any notion of a problem with the game itself is met with what I personally consider to be the worst example of blind love for an IP I've ever seen. What is confusing and saddening is that these posters do not understand that without airing complaints about issues these issues don't get fixed.

 

I, like you, will continue to be as civil as possible. I like and dislike this game for various reasons, but to be labelled as an idiot or a troll for voicing reason is very depressing.

 

I'm not sure why you're either surprised or saddened that a love of Star Wars will cause people to gloss over flaws. I know it's the case with me, and I do not care. The game does a good job of replicating the look and feel of Star Wars (barring the space elements), and that is what I was looking for in an MMO. Is it as smooth and seamless as today's WoW? Nope. But that experience is played-out for me. This gem, however, still has many rich experiences to yield.

[Jordan_Hoffman]

I've been trying very hard to maintain neutrality and push people to be more reasonable, but any notion of a problem with the game itself is met with what I personally consider to be the worst example of blind love for an IP I've ever seen. What is confusing and saddening is that these posters do not understand that without airing complaints about issues these issues don't get fixed.

 

I, like you, will continue to be as civil as possible. I like and dislike this game for various reasons, but to be labelled as an idiot or a troll for voicing reason is very depressing.

 

This is one of the better Trolls I have read.

[klinesmoker]

This is one of the better Trolls I have read.

 

I would thank you if I was actually trolling. I like the game, I'll see the big content patch and go from there, but your post is literally a platinum example of what we were discussing.

 

Unless you just very cleverly trolled me........!

[tpanisiak]

I've been trying very hard to maintain neutrality and push people to be more reasonable, but any notion of a problem with the game itself is met with what I personally consider to be the worst example of blind love for an IP I've ever seen. What is confusing and saddening is that these posters do not understand that without airing complaints about issues these issues don't get fixed.

 

I, like you, will continue to be as civil as possible. I like and dislike this game for various reasons, but to be labelled as an idiot or a troll for voicing reason is very depressing.

 

Oh my Gosh,

 

Thanks for this reply, and it's good to know I'm not the only one seeing this raucous, aggressive outburst of love to this game, and seething hatred to those who express legit troubles.

 

Good to know I have a comrade in arms also trying to be civil and attempting to draw understanding from BOTH sides of the argument here.

[klinesmoker]

I'm not sure why you're either surprised or saddened that a love of Star Wars will cause people to gloss over flaws. I know it's the case with me, and I do not care. The game does a good job of replicating the look and feel of Star Wars (barring the space elements), and that is what I was looking for in an MMO. Is it as smooth and seamless as today's WoW? Nope. But that experience is played-out for me. This gem, however, still has many rich experiences to yield.

 

And that is fine for you, and a good clap on the back for finding this gem!

 

Still, the majority of posters are far too critical or far too critical of critical analysis. This is always bad.

 

 

Edit: To to too.

Edited January 2, 2012 by klinesmoker

[Andryah]

If you look objectively at everything that is wrong with this game it should be obvious to you that it is a year from being ready. It won't be given a year - hell it won't be given 3 months and you know what? It shouldn't be given 3 months.

 

I disagree.

 

And given your first post in the thread stating alleged "fact", which was really just your "opinion", there is no reason to believe anything you issue as edict here.

[Jordan_Hoffman]

I would thank you if I was actually trolling. I like the game, I'll see the big content patch and go from there, but your post is literally a platinum example of what we were discussing.

 

Unless you just very cleverly trolled me........!

 

And the game begins!

[klinesmoker]

And the game begins!

 

More beer is required.

[tpanisiak]

And that is fine for you, and a good clap on the back for finding this gem!

 

Still, the majority of posters are far too critical or far too critical of critical analysis. This is always bad.

 

 

Edit: To to too.

 

This is what I've been attempting to say with my original response.

 

We know it's tedious seeing a large portion of this forum riddled with topics that point out the flaws. I understand the fan base is coming to its defense, but truthfully being so aggressive in your love with this game only succeeds in pushing people away.

 

The more I read the "I'm leaving, this is why" I'm finding the poster is being VERY civil and VERY fair in detailing the reason behind WHY they feel there's a problem. And yet, it's the fandom that's contorting it into negativity.

 

There's a problem with this game and its prompting a fair number of people to quit. I for one am not, but I also hold that Bioware and EA need to get on the problems that was discovered in BETA and persisted into release.

Not everyone is tolerant of problems. People SHOULD be more lax, but that's not the case.

[Andryah]

I'm not sure why you're either surprised or saddened that a love of Star Wars will cause people to gloss over flaws.

 

It's called tolerance.

 

There is a sizable segment of the player base that is tolerant of the current bug list because they love the lore, they love the immersion in the lore, they actually understand that MMOs always have bugs (even seven years into production) AND the bugs are not really game breaking from any practical objective viewpoint. The whole "game breaking" perjorative in play by the /ranters here is just that.... a /ranty perjorative directed at the game.

 

Most sensible people are in the game having fun, enjoying the experience, and are confident that not only will the bugs get flattened out, but that new content will be coming as well.

 

Of course there is an intolerant and vocal whiny MMO elite minority that clutter up the forums here with all manner of bash and nash about the game. They are entitled to do so, within the forum rules, AND AND other forum members are entitled to dismiss what they have to say.

 

No MMO is perfect or acceptable for everyone. Those that don't like it should cut their losses and find something they do like. It is disrespectful to the forum community to troll the forums with constant rehashed rants and complaints. It is also non-productive. Want to be productive bug report your issues to BW and have some patience as they work through the backlog of bugs.

[lycrates]

I won`t be paying any subscription either i`m afraid.

 

The current generation of MMO games are all in decline this style of game play has grown boring why on earth they have copied it is beyond stupid. Ultimately the story line was reasonable for my Bounty Hunter nothing like as good as other games by Bioware. The questing system was very dull basically all the same grinding kills and collecting crap.

 

SWTOR for me just wasn`t fun I didn`t like the graphics they are bland and lifeless exploring the world seeing the same rock formation and buildings cut and paste randomly looked like a rush job to me and failed to hold my interest I actually found the game play Gruelling even job like.

 

Everything about this game needs improving everything I`m amazed they released it with so many features missing. It’s not an MMO it’s barely a CO OP because 20% the time your off on your own unrelated stories. Gear 3 had 4 players CO OP a million times more fun and better PVP. Most single player games offer story line and co op play and online PVP for free, with completely new content being added for the cost of a month’s subscription.

 

Ultimately all the MMO offers is repeatable dungeons and raids which rely on quality game play and finding groups , Outside of that a in depth fun crafting system which are currently all broken and not user friendly I see no point in this game what so ever.

 

I have come to a decision that MMO games are just a waste of life in my opinion and the lowest form of gaming for quality and least rewarding for your time. Lifes to short to spend hours begging people to join you in a flashpoint which is bugged anyway.

I’ll be on Xbox Live chatting having and a MMO experience on BF3 and full HD life like graphics where I can drive tanks fly jets in a lag fee skill base game along with my friends. I get a better Frame rate on BF3 with 64 people going at it than with 20 in Hutt ball.

 

If I want story Ill play Skyrim and Mass Effect or read a bloody book the point of a game is game play that`s what makes it fun or not a good story is a massive help but not as important and will only hamper the speed and cost of new content.

 

Thanks Bioware I have enjoyed all your other games wish you all the best with Mass Effect3 I believe if you had been more like Mass Effect and less like WOW It would have been a winner.

 

I kinda of have to agree.

This old style of MMOs are no longer as interesting. I was hoping SWTOR would have fixed some of the terrible mistakes of old school MMOs, like stationary combat, or healers staring at green bars, or "kill 10 of X" quests.

 

I dont like BF3 types of games, so I kinda of out luck. I feel like I dont have a home for a multiplayer game (at least until GW2 comes out, or even Diablo III).

 

I think SWTOR has potential to be a lot more fun, but lets be honest, we are basically still in Beta. There is no serious PvP (rated Warzones, Realm v Realm, Arenas, Heroic Warzones etc.) and PvE is basically broken (apparent operations are bugged as hell, while there is no serious LFG function to help people put groups together). Finally, 80% of the Story is the same for all classes of the same faction, so if you have seen a class once, you have seen them all.

 

I dont think this game will die soon, but i dont expect it to do well either. I feel that most people will play their free month, then get bored (because the game is still in Beta) and leave and never look back. If someone asked me to guess, I would give SWTOR 6 months to get its act together, if it manages to shape up, I expect it survive until Project Titan comes out in like 3 years. (btw its not hard to imagine that Titan will basically be a Skyrim type, fully action combat MMO with the setting TBA).

Edited January 2, 2012 by lycrates

[Jesmcalli]

This is what I've been attempting to say with my original response.

 

We know it's tedious seeing a large portion of this forum riddled with topics that point out the flaws. I understand the fan base is coming to its defense, but truthfully being so aggressive in your love with this game only succeeds in pushing people away.

 

The more I read the "I'm leaving, this is why" I'm finding the poster is being VERY civil and VERY fair in detailing the reason behind WHY they feel there's a problem. And yet, it's the fandom that's contorting it into negativity.

 

There's a problem with this game and its prompting a fair number of people to quit. I for one am not, but I also hold that Bioware and EA need to get on the problems that was discovered in BETA and persisted into release.

Not everyone is tolerant of problems. People SHOULD be more lax, but that's not the case.

 

I think people are less tolerant because this is Bioware, not some indie company pumping out an MMO from their dorm room. There are flaws that, as you stated, were pointed out in beta, and persisted into launch. Bugs are understandable, but entire aspects of the game that seem tacked on, and unplayable ( yes, I'm referring to PVP, in this case)? That's an easy way to cause some serious rage. Such things aren't expected from a major developer.

[Jordan_Hoffman]

It's called tolerance.

 

There is a sizable segment of the player base that is tolerant of the current bug list because they love the lore, they love the immersion in the lore, they actually understand that MMOs always have bugs (even seven years into production) AND the bugs are not really game breaking from any practical objective viewpoint. The whole "game breaking" perjorative in play by the /ranters here is just that.... a /ranty perjorative directed at the game.

 

Most sensible people are in the game having fun, enjoying the experience, and are confident that not only will the bugs get flattened out, but that new content will be coming as well.

 

Of course there is an intolerant and vocal whiny MMO elite minority that clutter up the forums here with all manner of bash and nash about the game. They are entitled to do so, within the forum rules, AND AND other forum members are entitled to dismiss what they have to say.

 

No MMO is perfect or acceptable for everyone. Those that don't like it should cut their losses and find something they do like. It is disrespectful to the forum community to troll the forums with constant rehashed rants and complaints. It is also non-productive. Want to be productive bug report your issues to BW and have some patience as they work through the backlog of bugs.

 

Is it productive for me to Troll the forums to Troll the other Trolls who are Trolling Gnomes while giggling profusely?

[Jedi_Wannabe]

"How long will it take to finish this game?"

 

"Eight years."

 

"What can you do in half that time?"

 

"Fail."

 

"Great. When can you start?"

 

"I think we already did."

[PlanetXpress]

WOW wwas worse on launch. Fail logic is fail.

 

The thing is, despite WoW's launch issues and growing pains, it still blew every other MMO out of the water as it was by far the best game of its kind at the time.

 

SWTOR does not share that situation. This game does not blow anything out of the water as the current MMO competition (include a 7 year-old MMO) is still very comparable.

 

So launching with numerous issues such as these can make or break an MMO, such as the Age of Conan example that was given previously.

[tpanisiak]

I think people are less tolerant because this is Bioware, not some indie company pumping out an MMO from their dorm room. There are flaws that, as you stated, were pointed out in beta, and persisted into launch. Bugs are understandable, but entire aspects of the game that seem tacked on, and unplayable ( yes, I'm referring to PVP, in this case)? That's an easy way to cause some serious rage. Such things aren't expected from a major developer.

 

This is true and I agree with this point. Bioware also lost points with their laughable sequel to DragonAge: Origins. (Note: I actually liked the game, it's no Origins, but it got SERIOUS backlash from the fans).

 

As I stated before, EA's history with its customers is shaky at best. This is the major focal point of my concern, and I hope I'm just being overly critical.

 

The thing is, despite WoW's launch issues and growing pains, it still blew every other MMO out of the water as it was by far the best game of its kind at the time.

 

SWTOR does not share that situation. This game does not blow anything out of the water as the current MMO competition (include a 7 year-old MMO) is still very comparable.

 

So launching with numerous issues such as these can make or break an MMO, such as the Age of Conan example that was given previously.

 

This was the backbone to my original response. WoW had more problems than you could think up, but it was launched in a time where not every other developer attempted to drop an MMO. We had... what? Ragnarok at that time?

 

As of this moment if an MMO doesn't live up to expectation, or people lose interest, we can all go back to WoW and be somewhat happy there. (Note: Not me, I'm finished with WoW for other reasons).

 

This is why if an MMO comes out it needs to be exceedingly good, and have long term survivability. Tolerance seems nil if a game drops and is bug ridden and boring in the endgame, because WoW will still be there -- we have another place to flock to.

Edited January 2, 2012 by tpanisiak

[GalacticKegger]

I disagree.

 

And given your first post in the thread stating alleged "fact", which was really just your "opinion", there is no reason to believe anything you issue as edict here.

Huzzah!

[Jesmcalli]

This is true and I agree with this point. Bioware also lost points with their laughable sequel to DragonAge: Origins. (Note: I actually liked the game, it's no Origins, but it got SERIOUS backlash from the fans).

 

As I stated before, EA's history with its customers is shaky at best. This is the major focal point of my concern, and I hope I'm just being overly critical.

 

 

For me personally, it's the lack of the core mechanics that really concerns me. I'm seeing the same game engine inefficiency that Age of Conan had when it launched. People even with high-end PCs were having issues running it, as they are with SWTOR. We all saw how that turned out for AoC ( for the record, I *love* the Conan universe and have read many of the novels, seeing it go the way it did was very sad).

[klinesmoker]

This is true and I agree with this point. Bioware also lost points with their laughable sequel to DragonAge: Origins. (Note: I actually liked the game, it's no Origins, but it got SERIOUS backlash from the fans).

 

As I stated before, EA's history with its customers is shaky at best. This is the major focal point of my concern, and I hope I'm just being overly critical.

 

Thank you for pointing out that DA:2 was not as horrendous as labelled. At my store I routinely sell it still and am routinely thanked for the suggestion. This is anecdotal, but my sphere of influence shows me different results. When compared to your standard gaming fare DA:2 was quite fun and good.

 

That aside I want to go on record to state that I do not mind defense of this game. It's a good thing that cultivates intellectual discussion. What I have a hard time swallowing is seeing a rational post on either side be smashed into the ground by blatant ignorance.

 

That, above all, is the worst possible way to talk. I get this is the internet, but I will say that this game has several posters claiming they are sophisticated gamers and little in the way of rational talk. I really can't help but point it out when I see it.

[blufosil]

Thank you for pointing out that DA:2 was not as horrendous as labelled. At my store I routinely sell it still and am routinely thanked for the suggestion. This is anecdotal, but my sphere of influence shows me different results. When compared to your standard gaming fare DA:2 was quite fun and good.

 

That aside I want to go on record to state that I do not mind defense of this game. It's a good thing that cultivates intellectual discussion. What I have a hard time swallowing is seeing a rational post on either side be smashed into the ground by blatant ignorance.

 

That, above all, is the worst possible way to talk. I get this is the internet, but I will say that this game has several posters claiming they are sophisticated gamers and little in the way of rational talk. I really can't help but point it out when I see it.

 

...Chris?

[klinesmoker]

...Chris?

 

Always and forever my giant friend.

 

Edit: Ebon Hawk?

Edited January 2, 2012 by klinesmoker

[tpanisiak]

Thank you for pointing out that DA:2 was not as horrendous as labelled. At my store I routinely sell it still and am routinely thanked for the suggestion. This is anecdotal, but my sphere of influence shows me different results. When compared to your standard gaming fare DA:2 was quite fun and good.

 

That aside I want to go on record to state that I do not mind defense of this game. It's a good thing that cultivates intellectual discussion. What I have a hard time swallowing is seeing a rational post on either side be smashed into the ground by blatant ignorance.

 

That, above all, is the worst possible way to talk. I get this is the internet, but I will say that this game has several posters claiming they are sophisticated gamers and little in the way of rational talk. I really can't help but point it out when I see it.

 

Yeah, I had a great time with DragonAge: 2. Again, it wasn't as sophisticated or groundbreaking as Origins, and some avenues of the game incited a groan or grimace, but the game wasn't horrible.

 

And again, I agree wholeheartedly to your post. I keep expecting to see mostly intelligent discussions to the OP's very civil post, but instead the responses devolved into "I'm right, you're wrong" or, "your dumb lol111" or just plain senseless trolling.

 

Edit:

 

Case in point below.

Edited January 2, 2012 by tpanisiak

[Hazaz]

I wanted to love this game, I quit WoW after playing SWTOR beta in July and, despite it being a buggy unpolished mess, I saw greatness in it, and honestly thought it could've been a game that could replace WoW at least to some degree. Before you QQ, I'm not going back to WoW, Blizzard has let WoW become a joke as well.

My face when many of the crippling bugs in July beta/beta weekends are still in the game, many aren't even covered by 1.0.1, or 2.

 

Yes I know it's Christmas & New Years - so why release a game during this period?

 

EA got greedy, and released an unfinished, unpolished, flawed game, ignoring many of the massive massive threads from beta to complain about certain aspects of the game which were inherently flawed.

 

Took us 20 minutes to get everyone into hard mode foundry, the game would only let people pick hard mode if they'd completed the associated call to arms quest - why can't we just select "hard mode" from the group menu?

 

Burned through every boss until the last one, which was so bugged he was unkillable, we decided to die and reset, upon doing so, the entire instance reset itself, rather than let us figure out how to get around this crippling bug.

 

Trade skills are broken, Cybertech cannot make any tanking mods, so there's another massive waste of time. I believe the same goes for many other professions being useless/waste of time.

 

PVP is fun, purely because I have 9% damage/reduction from my expertise (got lucky with the Champion's Bags), but I doubt being a level 15 being completely and utterly destroyed by my premade can be enjoyable. (http://i.imgur.com/tat6E.jpg - Republic got a grand total of 5 kills in this battle...)

 

This "free month" is free, because it's another beta test, one we've all had to pay for.

 

I am confident Bioware isn't to blame, but more so the publishers/investors who were forcing them to do the impossible and release something that was nowhere near completion.

 

ALL THIS SAID, I've thoroughly enjoyed the single player aspects of the game, levelling up with friends, group conversations were really fun. But, the unfortunate reality of this is that none of the choices matter squat... and then you realise it was all just a USP (unique selling point) to differentiate themselves in a market full of failed WoW clones.

 

I'll keep checking in on darth hater's website and such to see if Bioware actually gets things sorted in the coming months, but I refuse to subscribe to a game that clearly isn't an mmo yet.

 

TL;DR - Don't want to subscribe to a beta test the mmo portions of this game, which are unfinished, unpolished, buggy and broken at best. But, think the game has a strong basis upon which to improve, but, I'm not going to pay EA to do it, because they have millions of dollars. :V

 

OMG! Not YOU! Everybody who has ever considered playing this game will change their mind because YOU aren't playing!!!